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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Gammadion (part 10)
14th March
20:55 GMT +1


"I'm sorry about that. I didn't realise that he'd.. react that way."

Overgirl's eyes are in magnification mode as she stares down at the streets of Berlin, saccading back and forth as she moves from one point of strangeness to another.

"I know."

"Would you..?" I point to the places where her uniform has been burned through. "Like me to repair that?"

"… Yes. Yes, please."

Orange light moves over her bare skin, leaving grey material in its wake.

"There isn't really much we can do about… Getting you back right now. Is there anything you..? Particularly want to see? Anywhere you want to go?"

"The Tempelhof Arc is missing."

"It was never built. For.. obvious reasons."

"I know you said that the subhumans are allowed into Europe, but why are there so many?"

I wonder for a moment if I should call her on the use of the term 'subhuman', but I did just lead her into an ambush by an 'angry' scientist.

"Improvements in transportation and communication technology and infrastructure, civil instability in Africa and the Middle East, and after the war West Germany had a shortage of low-skilled workers that they filled by-."

"They brought in foreign workers."

"They invited in foreign workers. There were economic migrants, not slaves."

"How.. has the Empire-. Germany.. remained… Stable… With…"

"Cultural assimilation, and less emphasis on monoculturalism. When you don't tell people it's essential that they only do things in a particular way, people stop objecting quite as strongly. Which is not to say that there weren't problems, especially in the short term. Just that they're manageable."

"Where are the Jews?"

"Around, probably." I shrug. "They aren't required to wear identification armbands or anything."

"They look-?"

"Just like anyone else? You did realise that Nazi propaganda-"

"National-. Socialist."

"-images were exaggerated at best, right?"

"I.. assumed they were a.. little, but…" She blinks, her vision returning to normal focus. "They just-. And they don't… Control…"

"No, Jews do not control European society. The vast majority of holders of high office in Germany are Christian. There are slightly disproportionately more Jews in banking when compared to their representation in society as a whole, but that's largely for reasons of tradition after a lot of European monarchs banned them from a lot of other trades rather than any concerted attempt to subvert the state. The only person who might be able to claim to control the world's economy is the head of the Greek Independent Authority for Public Revenue, Professor Demetrios Prokopios, and he's… Well, he's not Jewish."

"I… Don't think I.. believe it."

"You're free to look at whatever records you want. History, crime statistics…"

"Genealogies?"

"I.. doubt that our records are as expansive as yours are, and they're certainly not available to the public at request. Is there something you particularly want to know?"

"How the races have.. been bred together."

"I'm sorry? Outside of a few.. very unusual criminal situations, no one makes anyone breed with anyone else. Certainly, having people from different cultures living and working together results in a greater number of interracial relationships than would happen if they were geographically separated, but there's no.. deliberate.. policy of encouraging it. Honestly, the very idea would make people quite uncomfortable."

"I-. I mean-." She gurns. "How, how common.. is..?"

"I don't have the statistics to hand, but general demographic information might be publically available. You'd only find out how many mixed race individuals there are, rather than how many mixed race couples… Other than the fact that you find the whole idea immensely disturbing-."

"Are you-? In a relationship with a… Negress?"

"Ah, no. My girlfriend's father is of mixed Anglo-Saxon and Skræling ancestry, while her mother is Vietnamese. She looks more like her mother."

For a slightly awkward moment I remember Raquel kissing Kaldur on the Watchtower in the first moment of 2011. Maybe she just thought I was taken?

"I realise that this is somewhat hard for you to take in-."

"Yes! It's disgusting! Why would-? Anyone-!"

She takes a few breaths to regain her composure.

"Karl told me that he regretted… Regretted the purges."

"Karl?"

"Overman. Overman told me that he regretted the purges. I didn't-. I thought that he meant that he didn't think it was worth killing them."

"That may well have been what he meant."

"No, he's-" She turns to stare at me. "-seen other Earths! He's seen this result! And he'd.. rather have this than-than-."

She's actually crying. Okay, I can see how having your idol-.

I take a closer look at the violet strands.

"You think of him as your father."

"I was supposed to be-. They made me because they were trying to make someone who could bear his children, and he found out about it -about me- before they were ready. And he-. He is the world's greatest hero! He found out that my family was dead, and he.. took me out of the laboratory and into his home and treated me as if I was his natural daughter, not a half-alien who could never match him."

"Alright. Um."

"Why didn't he.. just… Tell me this is what it was like?" She turns back to the Berlin panorama, shaking her head. "I-. I'm more loyal to him than to the Fuhrer. He should have been Fuhrer after Adolf Hitler died. Why didn't he trust me with this?"

"Because it would have been a total shock to your worldview, and interfered with you being a hero on a world that works like yours does." She gives her head a tiny shake. "You said that he regretted the purges. Did he ever talk to you about them?"

"He was away from the Earth when the Great Cleansing occurred. He never likes to talk about it. He only spoke about it to me after he did a television interview where he admitted to wishing it hadn't happened, even after all of the good that the National Socialist party has done for our people. I-. I need to understand-."

Her head jerks up.

"This world. Are any of my family alive?"
 
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I wonder for a moment if I should call her on the use of the term 'subhuman', but I did just lead her into an ambush by an 'angry' scientist

needs to be ' I wonder for a moment if I should call her on the use of the term 'subhuman', but I did just lead her into an ambush by an 'angry' scientist. '

missed a period.

"I.. doubt that our records are expansive as yours our, and they're certainly not available to the public at request. Is there something you particularly want to know?"

' are '

"I was suppose to be-. They made me because they were trying to make someone who could bear his children,

' supposed '
 
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Wait, doesn't the Illustres have the full schematics for the Plane Shifter? You know, the device designed by the Luthor of the Justice Underground and that Blue Paul and the Young Offenders used when they came to visit?

Why would it be so difficult to just bring Overgirl back to her world? I do recall that now Earth 16 has a network surrounding it to prevent the use of the Plane Shifter in the area of the planet (not sure if the network covers the moon, however); but he's a Lantern, he can just transition with her to someplace else in the system, plane shift to Earth 10, transition to the planet and then do it in reverse to go back home. Shouldn't take him more than 30 min, 1 hour tops, and that's with sightseeing the Nazi-planet. Not that I would want to tour the planet, but hey, the Illustres has more tolerance than me.
 
For a slightly awkward moment I remember Raquel kissing Kaldur on the Watchtower in the first moment of 2010. Maybe she just thought I was taken?
Yes, by Zatanna IIRC. Didn't everyone assume they were an item for quite awhile, Zatanna included?

"I.. doubt that our records are expansive as yours our, and they're certainly not available to the public at request. Is there something you particularly want to know?"
are
 
"I'm sorry about that. I didn't realise that he'd.. react that way."

Overgirl's eyes are in magnification mode as she stares down at the streets of Berlin, saccading back and forth as she moves from one point of strangeness to another.
This Berlin must be quite the shock to her, given the Architectural fantasies dreamt up by Albert Speer that probably got built in her world...

"I know."

"Would you..?" I point to the places where her uniform has been burned through. "Like me to repair that?"

"… Yes. Yes, please."
She really is suffering some cultural shock here, if she isn't paying attention to her clothing damage.

Orange light moves over her bare skin, leaving grey material in its wake.

"There isn't really much we can do about… Getting you back right now. Is there anything you..? Particularly want to see? Anywhere you want to go?"
And OL just moves to pour it on. I know he's a little oblivious at times, but surely even he'd notice this.

"The Tempelhof Arc is missing."

"It was never built. For.. obvious reasons."
Like I said, Berlin must be a very different place.

"I know you said that the subhumans are allowed into Europe, but why are there so many?"

I wonder for a moment if I should call her on the use of the term 'subhuman', but I did just lead her into an ambush by an 'angry' scientist
Well, you ccouldn't have predicted he'd react that way...

"Improvements in transportation and communication technology and infrastructure, civil instability in Africa and the Middle East, and after the war West Germany had a shortage of low-skilled workers that they filled by-."

"They brought in foreign workers."

"They invited in foreign workers. There were economic migrants, not slaves."
Yet another cultural difference, piling on her devotion to the National Socialist norm...

"How.. has the Empire-. Germany.. remained… Stable… With…"

"Cultural assimilation, and less emphasis on monoculturalism. When you don't tell people it's essential that they only do things in a particular way, people stop objecting quite as strongly. Which is not to say that there weren't problems, especially in the short term. Just that they're manageable."
And given some of those objections lead to World War II...

"Where are the Jews?"

"Around, probably." I shrug. "They aren't required to wear identification armbands or anything."
Oh, boy, her worldview is getting shattered today, isn't it...

"They look-?"

"Just like anyone else? You did realise that Nazi propaganda-"

"National-. Socialist."
Even her correction is getting weaker.

"-images were exaggerated at best, right?"

"I.. assumed they were a.. little, but…" She blinks, her vision returning to normal focus. "They just-. And they don't… Control…"
I kind of feel sorry for her, too. Seeing her world is so different, and possibly worse off for it...

"No, Jews do not control European society. The vast majority of holders of high office in Germany are Christian. There are slightly disproportionately more Jews in banking when compared to their representation in society as a whole, but that's largely for reasons of tradition after a lot of European monarchs banned them from a lot of other trades rather than any concerted attempt to subvert the state. The only person who might be able to claim to control the world's economy is the head of the Greek Independent Authority for Public Revenue, Professor Demetrios Prokopios, and he's… Well, he's not Jewish."
If you don't remember, folks: He's the Greek god of Wealth, Pluotos.

"I… Don't think I.. believe it."

"You're free to look at whatever records you want. History, crime statistics…"

"Genealogies?"

"I.. doubt that our records are expansive as yours our, and they're certainly not available to the public at request. Is there something you particularly want to know?"
<sigh> That racial purity thing again...

"How the races have.. been bred together."

"I'm sorry? Outside of a few.. very unusual criminal situations, no one makes anyone breed with anyone else. Certainly, having people from different cultures living and working together results in a greater number of interracial relationships than would happen if they were geographically separated, but there's no.. deliberate.. policy of encouraging it. Honestly, the very idea would make people quite uncomfortable."
"Guess whose fault that is, incidentally?"

"I-. I mean-." She gurns. "How, how common.. is..?"

"I don't have the statistics to hand, but general demographic information might be publically available. You'd only find out how many mixed race individuals there are, rather than how many mixed race couples… Other than the fact that you find the whole idea immensely disturbing-."

"Are you-? In a relationship with a… Negress?"
A bit rude! His love life is none of your business.

"Ah, no. My girlfriend's father is of mixed Anglo-Saxon and Skræling ancestry, while her mother is Vietnamese. She looks more like her mother."

For a slightly awkward moment I remember Raquel kissing Kaldur on the Watchtower in the first moment of 2010. Maybe she just thought I was taken?
Rachel has her own racial issues. Let's leave it at that...

"I realise that this is somewhat hard for you to take in-."

"Yes! It's disgusting! Why would-? Anyone-!"
This is just how the world is here. Hopefully, you won't be staying long enough for it to be a problem...

She takes a few breaths to regain her composure.

"Karl told me that he regretted… Regretted the purges."

"Karl?"

"Overman. Overman told me that he regretted the purges. I didn't-. I thought that he meant that he didn't think it was worth killing them."
He was a child during the first few years of them anyway. Not much he could have done.

"That may well have been what he meant."

"No, he's-" She turns to stare at me. "-seen other Earths! He's seen this result! And he'd.. rather have this than-than-."
He's a good man, whatever his politics. And a Good Man should be bothered by wrongdoing...

She's actually crying. Okay, I can see how having your idol-.

I take a closer look at the violet strands.

"You think of him as your father."
Good to have that cleared up. The alternative would be kind of... Ew.

"I was suppose to be-. They made me because they were trying to make someone who could bear his children, and he found out about it -about me- before they were ready. And he-. He is the world's greatest hero! He found out that my family was dead, and he.. took me out of the laboratory and into his home and treated me as if I was his natural daughter, not a half-alien who could never match him."

"Alright. Um."
Yeah, like I said. Original plan: Ew.

"Why didn't he.. just… Tell me this is what it was like?" She turns back to the Berlin panorama, shaking her head. "I-. I'm more loyal to him that to the Fuhrer. He should have been Fuhrer after Adolf Hitler died. Why didn't he trust me with this?"

"Because it would have been a total shock to your worldview, and interfered with you being a hero on a world that works like yours does." She gives her head a tiny shake. "You said that he regretted the purges. Did he ever talk to you about them?"
Could he even have talked about it privately? I bet he'd always have someone watching him...

"He was away from the Earth when the Great Cleansing occurred. He never likes to talk about it. He only spoke about it to me after he did a television interview where he admitted to wishing it hadn't happened, even after all of the good that the National Socialist party has done for our people. I-. I need to understand-."

Her head jerks up.

"This world. Are any of my family alive?"
Oh, incoming trouble. I mean, would her family even exist on this Earth? I mean, her parents would have been alive, but there's no guarantee they'd have met much less married...

Boy, this day is just hard on her beliefs, isn't it?Let's hope she doesn't break completely. Overman would probably not be happy with OL and company...

As for the Plane-shifter tech... How well could it work without some kind of dimensional mapping? Earth -14 and Earth16 are apparently close enough for easy navigation, but others... I suspect there's a lot of Bleed between Overgirl's world and this one...
 
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Wait, doesn't the Illustres have the full schematics for the Plane Shifter? You know, the device designed by the Luthor of the Justice Underground and that Blue Paul and the Young Offenders used when they came to visit?
My understanding was that they don't know which coordinates to enter for "Nazi Earth", which is why Sivana is analyzing the energy signatures. We in the thread know that it's Earth-10, but how that translates to the Plane Shifter's internal planar selection doohickey is anyone's guess.
 
I think that Overman reacted in a more positive way to a half kryptonian made against his will and knowledge because he is several decades older that his earth 16 counterpart, she wasn't made by someone he considers an enemy, that being Luthor, and it is possible that he has encountered more strange and frankly disturbing things in his life, also she was made like this when she was 11 while Kon like a fully grown teenager and was designed to be a weapon while Overgirl looked like a young girl and wasn't made to kill him.

Also Ultraman was accepting of Jon and was even showed to love him probably because he had people working on him being able to have children with humans and his worldview may also be something that the average person doesn't consider to be right.

Superman 16 probably reacted so badly to Kon because he saw him as essentially being a child by rape, especially if he know who the other half of Kon belonged to.
 
Did I read that right....Overman was more accepting of a hybrid kryptonian off the bat then Earth 16 Supes?

That one's gonna sting a bit when he finds out.

Superboy was designed to kill him and came out of the tube as an angry teenager. Overgirl was designed to be Overman's wife and came out of the tube as a traumatized teenager. They're rather different scenarios.
 
As for the Plane-shifter tech... How well could it work without some kind of dimensional mapping? Earth -14 and Earth 16 are apparently close enough for easy navigation, but others... I suspect there's a low of Bleed between Overgirl's world and this one...

My understanding was that they don't know which coordinates to enter for "Nazi Earth", which is why Sivana is analyzing the energy signatures. We in the thread know that it's Earth-10, but how that translates to the Plane Shifter's internal planar selection doohickey is anyone's guess.

From my understanding, which could be flawed and is why I'm asking, the Bleed is between every universe and with the Bleed I don't think it matters if there's a bit or a lot, the Bleed fucks with everyone in the same way. Besides that, it wasn't that clear in the movie or in the Doppelganger episode, but I got the impression that the mapping function is part of the Plane-shifter technology. That was why Blue Paul knew that his universe was Earth -14 and that the Illustres' was Earth 16.

In this case, they already know that it's Earth-10, and Sivana should know where its coordinates should be if he already knew of his counterpart from that universe. If the Plane-shifter can't identify it with the name then I imagine that Sivana may have an archive with the coordinates of where he found his counterparts and he should be able to just make a quick search for the one that was on Earth-10. I mean, why would it be so complicated? I could think of a reason (all that meddling in the Multiverse by Time Trapper Paul and Red Queen Jade) but the attempt with the Plane-shifter should be made to remove it from the options or to finally find out that there's something or someone messing with the Multiverse.
 
Wow, I feel actually sorry for her.

And Overman seems to be a good guy too? Nice.
i dunno- VERY convenient timing for him to be offworld during a years/decades-long campaign of mass, industrialized murder, long enough that his hands were clean, and he's able to bray about "wishing he could have done something"- i have a suspicion he actually just sat back and did nothing- or went running off so he didnt have to watch, despite there being literally nobody on the planet who could stop him from...
well.. STOPPING it if he tried- Cowardice either way-
again, Nazi-ruled alternate earth-heavy cynicism as a default is the safe assumption- Overgirl here is looking more and more like a genuinely well-intentioned, indoctrinated dupe, but...
 
Feels a little quick and easy for her to already be reacting like this. Would have expected a bit more anger and obstinance. For her to look down on this world for still being so "backwards" compared to what her world's Nazis built by reverse-engineering Kryptonian technology. Because, again, for almost everyone on Earth 10 it's supposed to be downright utopic. Only the "precious few" survivors of the genocides have reason to complain.

Just feels like Earth 10 should be a rundown shithole barely holding together for something like this update to work on someone from Earth 10. Otherwise they can just use the "look how advanced and prosperous we are" excuse to shield themselves.

Though I suppose a realistic redemption would take entirely too long to portray.

I'm also not convinced that Overman would want a non-Nazi world. Just a non-genocidal variation of Nazism. When he found out about the genocides, he didn't try to tear down the system or otherwise put an end to Nazism. He just regretted that the genocides happened while nevertheless continuing to help build a Nazi Earth.
 
In this case, they already know that it's Earth-10, and Sivana should know where its coordinates should be if he already knew of his counterpart from that universe. If the Plane-shifter can't identify it with the name then I imagine that Sivana may have an archive with the coordinates of where he found his counterparts and he should be able to just make a quick search for the one that was on Earth-10. I mean, why would it be so complicated? I could think of a reason (all that meddling in the Multiverse by Time Trapper Paul and Red Queen Jade) but the attempt with the Plane-shifter should be made to remove it from the options or to finally find out that there's something or someone messing with the Multiverse.
I suspect that Sivana does know how to send Overgirl back, but 1) rather aggressively doesn't care about her, and 2) probably thinks spending time on Earth-16 with Well-Intentioned Extremist Paul would be a good way of de-Nazi-ing her.
 
Is Paul going to introduce Overgirl to the League and the Team? I ask because I know some of them are going to have so many questions. Specifically, about Overman's adoptive father and who the New Reichmen are.
 
Is Paul going to introduce Overgirl to the League and the Team?

Don't see why not. Canis is a mass mudering, possibly genocidal warlord. If he shuns a doubting nazi who hasn't even done much just because she carries part of a culture that earth... no, let's be honest here- a culture that the West despises but who is relatively blameless, just because she's a Nazi, then he would be completely blind fuckwit.
 
Feels a little quick and easy for her to already be reacting like this. Would have expected a bit more anger and obstinance. For her to look down on this world for still being so "backwards" compared to what her world's Nazis built by reverse-engineering Kryptonian technology. Because, again, for almost everyone on Earth 10 it's supposed to be downright utopic. Only the "precious few" survivors of the genocides have reason to complain.

Just feels like Earth 10 should be a rundown shithole barely holding together for something like this update to work on someone from Earth 10. Otherwise they can just use the "look how advanced and prosperous we are" excuse to shield themselves.

Though I suppose a realistic redemption would take entirely too long to portray.

I'm also not convinced that Overman would want a non-Nazi world. Just a non-genocidal variation of Nazism. When he found out about the genocides, he didn't try to tear down the system or otherwise put an end to Nazism. He just regretted that the genocides happened while nevertheless continuing to help build a Nazi Earth.
I imagine that between her own doubts, being exposed to Overmans doubts and being a semi reasonable individual she's self aware enough to realise that the only reason Earth 10 is more advanced is because of reverse engineered Kryptonian technology and most of her shock is coming from the fact that this definitively proves that mixing of the races isn't the apocalyptic thing the Nazis claimed to to be

Also, if you remove the genocide from Nazism you basically just get a generic dictatorship and it's possible that Overman believes that if he did tear down the system it would just lead to more suffering and wouldn't undo what had already been done
i dunno- VERY convenient timing for him to be offworld during a years/decades-long campaign of mass, industrialized murder, long enough that his hands were clean, and he's able to bray about "wishing he could have done something"- i have a suspicion he actually just sat back and did nothing- or went running off so he didnt have to watch, despite there being literally nobody on the planet who could stop him from...
well.. STOPPING it if he tried- Cowardice either way-
again, Nazi-ruled alternate earth-heavy cynicism as a default is the safe assumption- Overgirl here is looking more and more like a genuinely well-intentioned, indoctrinated dupe, but...
Keep in mind that Overman arrived in 1938 and, iirc, America surrendered in 1956 meaning he was at most 18 when the war ended and had probably been fighting in it for at most two or three years, meaning the Nazis had around twenty years to conduct their genocidal campaigns unimpeded and considering that in reality they managed to kill six million people in far less time and without the help of advanced alien technology there probably weren't a lot of people left to save by the time that Overman was A) Old enough to question the values that had been hammered into him, B) Influential enough to do anything about it and C) Knew that there were other realities where the Nazis lost and were doing fine.

Also, the "Great Purge" implies to me that there was one final push to exterminate the remnants, most likely planned for a time when they knew Overman would be offworld for an extended period of time because he didn't support it
 
i dunno- VERY convenient timing for him to be offworld during a years/decades-long campaign of mass, industrialized murder, long enough that his hands were clean, and he's able to bray about "wishing he could have done something"- i have a suspicion he actually just sat back and did nothing- or went running off so he didnt have to watch, despite there being literally nobody on the planet who could stop him from...
well.. STOPPING it if he tried- Cowardice either way-
again, Nazi-ruled alternate earth-heavy cynicism as a default is the safe assumption- Overgirl here is looking more and more like a genuinely well-intentioned, indoctrinated dupe, but...


Or far more likely the Nazi party started the Great Purge BECAUSE he had left the planet and wasn't around to stop them.
 
I agree with jonasquinn and Chaoswind, they probably knew that he wouldn't support their actions so only did it when he wasn't around to stop them.

And i also see the point that jonasquinn was making about her world view being damaged.
She basically just saw that the only reason the Germans won the war was because they got lucky and got their hands on advanced tech instead of them somehow being morally superior and right in their way of thinking, and that embracing people of other cultures and ethnic backgrounds wouldn't lead to societal collapse.
Seeing that Germany, in a universe where the Nazis lost is still doing just fine instead of being a shithole like the propaganda her government has most likely been making claiming that if it wasn't for them and their way of life, that being genociding anyone diffrent, their world would descend into anarchy, is the greatest shock she could receive.
I really can't wait to see if she interacts with the League and the Team, though i think the most positive response she could expect from them is pity, seeing as they may consider her just a poor girl brainwashed her whole life into accepting a shitstain philosophy.
I also can't wait to see if she discovers the Hitler clone and his family as well as the fact that Hitler ended up in Hellx3

Zoat are you planning on adding the Red Son Superman into your story?
Is there a version of the SI in the Red Son universe?
What has he been up to if he is there?
 
Don't see why not. Canis is a mass mudering, possibly genocidal warlord. If he shuns a doubting nazi who hasn't even done much just because she carries part of a culture that earth... no, let's be honest here- a culture that the West despises but who is relatively blameless, just because she's a Nazi, then he would be completely blind fuckwit.
He's not a mass murderer, he's a serial killer. Mass murders lack artistry.
Zoat are you planning on adding the Red Son Superman into your story?
Is there a version of the SI in the Red Son universe?
What has he been up to if he is there?
No. Red Son Superman has golden age power levels, and I'm not touching that.
 

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