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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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ForeverShogo said:
Oh, I've played Enclave Reborn before. Which also makes the Legion quite a bit stronger, and makes things even harder for the NCR by denying them one of their few allies. (New Reno.)

If Enclave Reborn is part of this Fallout universe, I'd say Legion victory is even more likely without some really cheap and gamey stuff that only a player would do.

But I'm also someone who thinks way, way, way too many horribly underestimate the Legion. It's not nearly as backwards and anti-tech as a lot of people think it is.
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Well no, it's backwards, but it's not anti-tech. They're basically a bunch of raiders that went so far backwards that they ended up coming out the other end as really forwards-thinking.
 
ForeverShogo said:
Oh, I've played Enclave Reborn before. Which also makes the Legion quite a bit stronger, and makes things even harder for the NCR by denying them one of their few allies. (New Reno.)

If Enclave Reborn is part of this Fallout universe, I'd say Legion victory is even more likely without some really cheap and gamey stuff that only a player would do.

But I'm also someone who thinks way, way, way too many horribly underestimate the Legion. It's not nearly as backwards and anti-tech as a lot of people think it is.
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In my experience, if the human isn't playing the Enclave they tend to lose to New Reno and are basically just a source of free power armour and vertibirds.

When I played the Republic of the Rio Grande my AI-Goddess ate the southern part of Legion territory with her robot minions.
 
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Mr Zoat said:
Well...

In Enclave Reborn you find out after taking the Hoover Dam that the Courier sided with the Enclave. You also get a rather nice picture of an Enclave flag hanging over the side of the dam.

Oh, the sergeant isn't a Ranger. The guy with the big gun is a Ranger, but those guys are too rare and important to be common.



It lets him grab the resources he needs to build a life without giving him a crutch.
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How would a lantern ring be a crutch? Lantern rings are incredibly powerful and versatile tools. If let's say Paul ended up in the Fallout universe but with a blue lantern ring, things can only get better. My original point was that if you're going to end up in a Universe with a lantern ring, having the MC use it breifly and never use it again just seems real wasteful and pointless, if you're going to be thrown into a world with a lantern ring and not have the tools to build a power battery then you may as well have not even been given the Lantern ring at all.
 
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MadMarx420 said:
How would a lantern ring be a crutch? Lantern rings are incredibly powerful and versatile tools. If let's say Paul ended up in the Fallout universe but with a blue lantern ring, things can only get better.
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Because he'd use that and not learn to use the things native to the setting.
 
Hmm. That brought up a good point. Is this timeline following the "historical" rules?

Because the Lady of the Bells never comes to power in the Rio Grande when things are set to historical.

But yes, she's a goddess in multiple senses of the term. The only leader as beautiful as her is Lynette. Which is quite the surprise. She wasn't really much to look at in Fallout 2, but OWB made her extremely beautiful.
 
Chaoswind said:
Isn't fallout comic canon that europe got along with less damage than the US?
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I dunno about the comic but from the little we learned in the games Europe is maybe in a worst state then the US, before the great war (and by that i mean before the bombing) all of europe was already in a total war for at least 30/40 years and the whole continent was already pretty fucked up, even if they were less touched by direct nuclear strike i do believe the chinese still bombed them since they were still a major weapons supplier for the Americans during the war. (I know it's pretty weird but that what the games said, don't see how a continent in total war for so long could still noticeably send weapon to support the Americans during their war against the chineses).

ps: i'm sorry to bother but could someone give me a link for the chapters with Paul in Avengers Earth Mightiest Hero? There so many alternatives Paul that i completely forget some of them....
 
Europe was at war with the Middle East for a while. There was a limited nuclear exchange. One of the only nations explicitly confirmed as getting nuked was Israel.

The war eventually stopped when the Middle East ran out of oil.

With resources continuing to dwindle, Europe turned on itself. With pretty much every European nation declaring war on every other European nation in a desperate bid to steal whatever resource stockpiles remained.

Then China and America had their nuclear exchange and basically anyone who had nukes used them on each other. Nuclear Apocalypse commences.
 
MadMarx420 said:
How would a lantern ring be a crutch? Lantern rings are incredibly powerful and versatile tools. If let's say Paul ended up in the Fallout universe but with a blue lantern ring, things can only get better. My original point was that if you're going to end up in a Universe with a lantern ring, having the MC use it breifly and never use it again just seems real wasteful and pointless, if you're going to be thrown into a world with a lantern ring and not have the tools to build a power battery then you may as well have not even been given the Lantern ring at all.
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that's why it's just a one-shot :V
 
Mquz said:
None of them except the Sierra Madre are in Nevada, and Fallout 76 is probably not canon. The Sierra Madre and Nuka World were never shown to have production capabilities - just a big vault of gold / fairly weak tech. The rest are run by factions who specifically don't want to rebuild the wasteland (Institute), or are already trying to do so on a small scale (brotherhood).
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He wasn't limited to Nevada.

The story of Fallout 76 is canon.

Nuka World has crazy robot production abilities and systems that can reproduce any animal via flash cloneing.

Sierra Madre has fusion furnaces that can make literally anything.



ForeverShogo said:
Also, Paul can't go to Vault 0 because Vault 0 isn't canon. None of the stuff from Fallout: Tactics is canon. There's no fucking way that the existence of some huge ass Brotherhood empire in the Midwest wouldn't have been mentioned by literally anyone.
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Vault 0 is in fact canon and the midwest brotherhood is mentioned in Fallout 3.
 
No. No it isn't. Vault 0 isn't the least bit canon. Neither is that stupid fucking Calculator.

The only thing treated as canon is that a detachment of the Brotherhood ended up in the Chicago area and fought some Super Mutants, but if it survived it only ever stayed small. It never became the empire that it became in Tactics.

Part of the reason Lyon's detachment went east was to try to find them. They failed. With the Eastern Brotherhood assuming they were destroyed.

3, New Vegas, and 4 treat them as a failed expedition. The Legion controls territory that would belong to them, including Cheyenne Mountain.

If Tactics was canon then there's no fucking way in hell the Brotherhood would fail to mention that one of their Chapters took over the entire goddamn American Midwest. SOMEONE would have mentioned the Brotherhood took over everything from Chicago to goddamn Cheyenne Mountain.

Interplay didn't consider Tactics to be canon. Bethesda doesn't consider Tactics to be canon.

Official Word of God by Bethesda is, "For our purposes, neither Fallout Tactics nor Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel happened."

When Interplay was still working on Van Buren, they were going to completely disregard Tactics by having Cheyenne Mountain be completely obliterated in the nuclear exchange with China.

Tactics and it's ending literally can not be canon. Every single ending in Tactics sees the creation of a massive, fascist, neo-feudal empire that flat out does not exist in any of the games taking place after Tactics in the timeline. No one can even find the so-called Midwestern Brotherhood.

Even the setting of the OWB mod, which is the setting of the one-shot, has them almost immediately getting their shit kicked in by the Enclave.

=====================

The above aside . . . I'm pretty sure the reason Kronos went to Area 51 is because he probably had the ring scan the Earth for the most advanced tech, or just alien tech, and it naturally pointed him to Area 51.

As for the other locations? He probably wouldn't have known. His memories of the setting he ends up in tends to get erased. He forgot everything he knew about Young Justice but retained knowledge of other DC universes.

I'm sure some mind fuckery blanked him on things like the Sierra Madre or Big Mountain.
 
ForeverShogo said:
No. No it isn't. Vault 0 isn't the least bit canon. Neither is that stupid fucking Calculator.

The only thing treated as canon is that a detachment of the Brotherhood ended up in the Chicago area and fought some Super Mutants, but if it survived it only ever stayed small. It never became the empire that it became in Tactics.

Part of the reason Lyon's detachment went east was to try to find them. They failed. With the Eastern Brotherhood assuming they were destroyed.

3, New Vegas, and 4 treat them as a failed expedition. The Legion controls territory that would belong to them, including Cheyenne Mountain.

If Tactics was canon then there's no fucking way in hell the Brotherhood would fail to mention that one of their Chapters took over the entire goddamn American Midwest. SOMEONE would have mentioned the Brotherhood took over everything from Chicago to goddamn Cheyenne Mountain.

Interplay didn't consider Tactics to be canon. Bethesda doesn't consider Tactics to be canon.

Official Word of God by Bethesda is, "For our purposes, neither Fallout Tactics nor Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel happened."

When Interplay was still working on Van Buren, they were going to completely disregard Tactics by having Cheyenne Mountain be completely obliterated in the nuclear exchange with China.

Tactics and it's ending literally can not be canon. Every single ending in Tactics sees the creation of a massive, fascist, neo-feudal empire that flat out does not exist in any of the games taking place after Tactics in the timeline. No one can even find the so-called Midwestern Brotherhood.

Even the setting of the OWB mod, which is the setting of the one-shot, has them almost immediately getting their shit kicked in by the Enclave.

=====================

The above aside . . . I'm pretty sure the reason Kronos went to Area 51 is because he probably had the ring scan the Earth for the most advanced tech, or just alien tech, and it naturally pointed him to Area 51.

As for the other locations? He probably wouldn't have known. His memories of the setting he ends up in tends to get erased. He forgot everything he knew about Young Justice but retained knowledge of other DC universes.

I'm sure some mind fuckery blanked him on things like the Sierra Madre or Big Mountain.
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I get that you don't like Fallout Tactics, but it's not you who decides what is and isn't canon in it, it's the license holders.

And they haven't said Tactics is non-canon.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Say it with me: Nobody reads the FAQ.
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Of course not. After all, that's the first rule of the FAQ. And the second rule of the FAQ is "Nobody talks about the FAQ".

Chaoswind said:
Vaermina isn't dense, he does it on purpose. He believes he is right and will fight you all the way up to the point you have irrefutable proof that he is wrong
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At which point he will continue to insist that he is right despite having been irrefutably proven wrong. Honestly though I find that the forum is much less frustrating since the day I discovered I could ignore him.

Just remember Mark Twain's advice on arguing when dealing with Vaermina and you'll be fine.
 
Vaermina said:
I get that you don't like Fallout Tactics, but it's not you who decides what is and isn't canon in it, it's the license holders.

And they haven't said Tactics is non-canon.
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This is an interesting point.

I don't agree with you but I understand why you think this way. I would rather say that Canon is an abyss, because if you subscribe to the belief that license holders get to dictate the "truth" of your favourite fictional universe then what of the original authorial intent? Interplay no longer exists despite being the original developers of Fallout and the creators of the majority of its themes and aesthetic.

When it comes to a fictional universe as large as Fallout, whose voice is louder, Interplay or Bethesda? Should Zoat bend over backwards to appeal to Bethesda's version of the truth? I know that he won't because his intent is to write a good story not to be perfectly accurate to a wiki, one thing must come first.

Brian_Fiction said:
Say it with me everyone:
Vaermina is as dense as a neutron star.
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It's unkind and immature to attack the person rather than the argument. If you disagree with them why not try to either construct an opposing argument or not insult them. I don't agree with Vaermina and I am not invested enough in this to get into a drawn out discussion/argument but I think people should try to be either kind or courteous especially when it costs them nothing. Its one of Paul's better traits.

p.s. I recommend reading the linked essay, it provoked some thoughts of mine and perhaps it will provoke some of yours.
 
Good thing I pointed out that both the original and the new license holders consider Tactics to be non-canon then.

I don't even hate Tactics. I just don't get why people insist on treating it as canon when it would blatantly conflict with the canon of almost every other Fallout game.

The Brotherhood would be THE unquestionable super power of the North American continent if Tactics were canon. But any time they've ever been mentioned in 3 or beyond, it's been said that they disappeared. That they couldn't be found.

Like, how the hell did the Legion even expand up through Colorado to include Denver in their domain if a Brotherhood that controlled the Midwest and the Calculator for 70+ years was a thing?

But maybe at some later date Bethesda will change their mind. It's not like they haven't done stupid shit before. Like Billy the Fridge Boy. Or Fallout 76. Still shake my head at the utter ridiculousness of that West Virginian Brotherhood.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Well...

In Enclave Reborn you find out after taking the Hoover Dam that the Courier sided with the Enclave. You also get a rather nice picture of an Enclave flag hanging over the side of the dam.

Oh, the sergeant isn't a Ranger. The guy with the big gun is a Ranger, but those guys are too rare and important to be common.



It lets him grab the resources he needs to build a life without giving him a crutch.
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what- why?!?!?
the Courier's a wastelander-he/she's on the Enclave's "to horribly murder" list by default- i mean they were canonically even butchering "un-mutated" vault-dwellers- was this a version of the courier who Doc Mitchel fucked up the emergency brain surgery on? >.<

also, Vae, again (jokes aside, you're on a roll man- i know im on of the ones usually quick to snark atcha when you jump to conclusions, but you've had some good points recently!), has another good point about Fallout Tactics- the game's explicitly in apocryphal territory, not uncanoned- neither confirmed or denied- there WERE a group of BOS separatists who headed out that way via airships (the prototypes/predecessors to the one built by raping/razing rivet city for the reactor in 4), but its considered fairly unlikely they they reached full army status/essentially built an empire/nation like they did in the game-

given the dubious nature/canonity of Vault zero (as it contradicts the social experiments intended to gather data for Slowboat colony ships thing that got derailed by VT hiring psychopaths who went off-mission) there's a decent chance they're "just" surviving/ dealing with the issues with SM's and the beastlords instead of fighting a robot war- after all, their reason for the split was being more sane/less insular about recruiting-so there's a decent chance they're chugging along with a decent, if small support base....
 
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Gantradies said:
what- why?!?!?
the Courier's a wastelander-he/she's on the Enclave's "to horribly murder" list by default- i mean they were canonically even butchering "un-mutated" vault-dwellers- was this a version of the courier who Doc Mitchel fucked up the emergency brain surgery on? >.<
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If you're playing Reform, they don't do that any more. Or rather, they usually don't. There's a tree where you can decide what your species policy is. The left branch has you treat wastelanders as second class citizens, while the right branch has you accept wastelanders, and even ghouls and super mutants if you want. Suffice to say a lot of your people don't like the idea all that much and you have to take some penalties first.

But if you're playing Douglas 'if they'd wanted slavery they'd have voted for Anderson' Granite, you always go right. Because that's the sort of person that you are.

The-Mutant-Question.png

President Frank Anderson of the Purist faction on the other hand has focuses for coring territory by committing mass murder.

Plus, it's perfectly possible that Courier 6 is an Enclave officer.
 
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The Enclave ending of that mod bugs me so much, because it just railroads you into becoming The Courier in a way I find to be entirely too implausible.

Also, when I do a Reformist run in Enclave Reborn . . . I've honestly never accepted Ghouls or Super Mutants. Like, I can believe that they'd change their minds on regular Wastelanders. But the leap to accepting Ghouls and Super Mutants always felt like too much of a stretch to me. Not even (most) Wastelanders like them.

===

Though it's not too weird for their to be an Enclave willing to recruit Wastelanders. Colonel Autumn was willing to do so, and his arguments with Eden over the use of Modified FEV are what ultimately triggered his revolt.

For reference, he just wanted to use control over a clean water supply to force Wastelanders to submit to Enclave authority. Though he did still plan on killing any Ghouls or Super Mutants, and making Wastelanders submit to genetic screening tests to make sure they weren't too fucked up.
 
i mean the enclave doesn't like ghouls, but i'm gonna point you to frank horrigan and the other super mutants they made when they were spelunking in mariposa. also, the whole events of tactics potentially didn't happen and the only confirmed report is that some brotherhood scrubs built airships and screwed off to chicago. and the less said about the ps2 game the better.

a-nyway from what i remember, area 51 was said to have a lot of alien tech lining it's halls. maybe not as much as the mothership zeta ship, but still enough that you could potentially build a jury rigged piece meal lantern. but you'd be better served turning all of the tech into ways to make food n stuff, make yourself an actual reliable nest egg instead of wasting it on a power battery, matter creation not withstanding.
 
's a fair point, but he might've still had some charge left over to bullshit some stuff. and it wouldn't be a good idea at the time in the first place cause it'd be better off making a "geck" effect on the area. i mean what's he gonna find in space? zetans?
 
ForeverShogo said:
I'm sure some mind fuckery blanked him on things like the Sierra Madre or Big Mountain.
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Or he just decided that area 51 was sufficient for his needs and he shouldn't be wasting ring charge when all sorts of alien tech was leagues better than everything else available.

Or he just ran out of charge early because he wasn't as efficient as a fully trained lantern Paul would be.
 
bobsimmo said:
References as in "midwest brotherhood are around" or "behold the empire of steel!" Because theirs a difference.
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i think the former, from memory- to be fair, the reason i give their survival (if the airships being downed wasn't an instant "everybody dies" scenario) into the present,
even with the legion present, a decent chance, is they were entirely formed of the least stupid/most pragmatic members of the entire brotherhood at their point of exile in all but name-until tactics starts going sideways into stuff that doesn't thematically match the setting part/midway thorough, their situation/starting point is pretty believable- the BOS's crippling weakness has always been their cultish nature/obsession with secrecy/inbreeding-

and the entire reason they were kicked out was the lot of them spoke up about this being..kind of foolish given the growing number of organized, military threats that were popping up where "a handful of dudes with Power Armour and Lasers/Plasma weapons" weren't an "instant win against any number of opponents"button anymore

lets be honest- by the time of FO3, there's a pretty good chance a good chunk of the "traditionalist" brother/sisters have...
issues with an alarming lack of forks in their respective family trees due to sheer pressure/lack of new blood- when you consider inbreeding as a factor, the Mohave Brotherhood's near-total suicide-By-NCR/eli's insanity makes a hilarious amount of sense-the latest few generations of elders were probably halfway around the bend at birth- look at some of the more.....erratic European nobility before they caught onto the inbreeding issues/were force to stop by outright lethal complications like hemophilia....

- honestly, given they'd have had a fair bit of lead-time on everyone's favorite Neo-barbarian hypocrite to setup, i could set them holding a small/moderate territory (assuming they were helping local militia arm with second-tier/ less complicated weaponry and Armour, as well as recruiting)given that the majority of the legion has football pads and lawnmower blades-

their PA (probably even their "conventional" combat Armour, tbf)and DEW's would probably be getting a little worn,and they'd be pretty dependent on less-trained/equipped recruits to make up numbers (though the Legion pretense COULD potentially work in their favor-they'd be doubtlessly seen as a more palatable option as allies/protectors then Sallow's mob of murderous tribals by anyone who wasn't stupid/a drugged-up raider who wasn't being held at gunpoint- even a, by our standards, somewhat harsh protectorate arrangement/tribute requirement would be better then having your Brahmen raped and your women stolen by -them-),
but if they were able to establish even a moderate foothold/manufacturing capability.....
 
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