With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Vaermina · Jul 7, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
15th June 2020
21:22 GMT -5

While yes Courtney's actions were stupid.

You're doing that bad writing thing again where you re-write bits of the setting to make those actions seem worse then they actually were so your SI can act morally superior.

Darko · Jul 7, 2020

Vaermina said:
While yes Courtney's actions were stupid.

You're doing that bad writing thing again where you re-write bits of the setting to make those actions seem worse then they actually were so your SI can act morally superior.

Her actions were as worse as they appeared, the writers of the show just made it so that we would agree with her actions.

She gathered a bunch of teenagers to fight a group that managed to kill superheroes that were both more experienced and more trained than them.

This is a horrible decision to make.

She doesn't have the plot armor that she has in the show of being allowed to get away with her stupid things and somehow not being stopped from performing her actions.

Zoat is just showing how her actions would be viewed from another perspective, that being stupid teenage girl does something really stupid, instead of some story of a teenage girl taking up the legacy of dead heroes.

When you prevent a bunch of untrained teenagers from fighting a group of veteran killers you can act as morally superior as you want.

Massgamer · Jul 7, 2020

Oh, I was right! And yeah, as fun as tv show is teenagers should by all accounts have no chance against the veteran villain organization and should have been pulled out for proper training at least if the really wanted to be superheroes.

Of course, meta wise in tv show there are apparently no other heroes to call on so this is just a logical expansion if there was instead.

Mr Zoat, what do you think of show overall anyway?

Vaermina · Jul 7, 2020

Darko said:
Her actions were as worse as they appeared, the writers of the show just made it so that we would agree with her actions.

She gathered a bunch of teenagers to fight a group that managed to kill superheroes that were both more experienced and more trained than them.

This is a horrible decision to make.

She doesn't have the plot armor that she has in the show of being allowed to get away with her stupid things and somehow not being stopped from performing her actions.

Zoat is just showing how her actions would be viewed from another perspective, that being stupid teenage girl does something really stupid, instead of some story of a teenage girl taking up the legacy of dead heroes.

When you prevent a bunch of untrained teenagers from fighting a group of veteran killers you can act as morally superior as you want.

Okay, you know what, I am going to blunt and simple here.

Yes or No.

Did Zoat add in the bit about Theodore Knight being the first Starman and loaning his staff to Sylvester Pemberton in the Stargirl verse?

Darko · Jul 7, 2020

Vaermina said:
Okay, you know what, I am going to blunt and simple here.

Yes or No.

Did Zoat add in the bit about Theodore Knight being the first Starman and loaning his staff to Sylvester Pemberton?

It would explain how he got the staff in the first place.

And I don't think the show ever said that Sylvester was the first Starman.

It is also a whole lot safer to give the staff to the creators adult son, who is also a superhero, than it is to leave it in the hands of an untrained teenage girl.

Chojin Patriarch · Jul 7, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
15th June 2020
21:22 GMT -5

So it's confirmed, this is the new Stargirl series. I don't know it, but I would assume this will end up with someone upset.

"For.. goodness sake, Patrick. I know it's not easy for a step-parent to establish their authority, but burglary is a bit beyond-."

"I.. know. Believe me, I know."

On the other end of the phone I hear him exhale in frustration, while from the sofa of our living room Jennie flashes me an interrogative frown.

So he's in with the former JSA off-siders. And living with Jennifer?

"The worst part of it is, I phoned Ma to get a list of all the stuff that was missing, and not all of it's in her room."

"You think she lost it?"

"I think she might have got it into her head to try and restart the Justice Society."

Teenage girl. Stories of Heroism. What do you think? The only question is, how many other kids are with her?

"I'm going to warn you right now that Jennie's about three metres away from me."

"Yeah, I-. I didn't want Courtney getting involved. I didn't want to say anything to encourage her, so I didn't tell her about Infinity Inc. I don't think she knows you guys exist."

Then again, the internet exists. If she didn't before, she sure as heck knows now.

"Can I assume that Courtney isn't.. some sort of combat savant, trained from infancy is martial arts?"

"Yeah, that's a pretty safe assumption."

And even then, I doubt Pat would want her going out, to use the Worm term..

"And the Cosmic Staff's brain wave scanner is just.. acting up after a decade without maintenance?"

"I'm a mechanical engineer, not an electronics engineer. I wouldn't know where to start with something like that."

Okay, That's a fair excuse. I'll take it he doesn't have the S.T.R.I.P.E exosuit here. Or at least, it's not ready yet.

"Okay." I lean back against the hall wall. "Okay. Let me talk to Jennie, and… We'll put our heads together and come up with something. You're in.. Blue Valley, right?"

"That's the place."

They could be on the other side of the planet, and still not be far for a Lantern.

"Okay, I'll come in person. See you later."

"Yeah. And.. thanks."

I'm betting Pat is in quite the funk right now.

I hang up, then bow my head slightly as Jennie gets up and slowly walks over.

"What did Pat want?"

Brace yourself, Paul... or whatever name you're using here.

I raise my head to look her in the eyes.

"Short version… You know Pemberton left him the Cosmic Staff?" She nods. "His step-daughter found it and started using it and somehow bumped into a couple of Injustice Society members. He bailed her out, then took her to the Justice Society's old headquarters to try and make a point about how they all died despite being a lot better trained than she is. Unfortunately, she didn't listen, went back there after he took her home and stole all of their old equipment."

Yeah, not the smartest move. Though I doubt much of it works after this long. Or at least works safely. What's the expiry date on Miraclo pills again?

Her eyes widen.

"She what?!"

Ah, I see someone's in the mood to give a certain fifteen-year-old a spanking. With a giant green hand construct.

"I know. So I.. guess we're.. staging an intervention?" I grab my mobile and scroll through my contacts. "I'll phone Jack-"

Who last time I checked was still angry with Pemberton for giving away his dad's staff and with Patrick for keeping hold of it, so that's going to be a fun conversation.

On the other hand, given the fates his father and older brother met over the years in the comics, and presumably his father here...

"-and Matt-."

Jennie nods.

Bizarre that the Hourman of the 853rd Century is running around here...

"And I'll call Pieter and Tommy. Hopefully we can talk some sense into this girl before someone gets killed."

"Someone else."

Ah, the Legacy of the JSA. One of the breeding grounds for new characters in the DC Universe.

15 June 2020
22:42 GMT -5

"Hey!"

An hour and twenty minutes? How long did they stand around arguing before he went "Ring, scan for Cosmic Converter energies."

I don't know if it's the difference between the physique of a comic character and the physique of a real person, but even in this light what Courtney Whitmore is wearing looks ridiculous. And impractical. Is looks like she's taken Pemberton's 'dress' costume and cut a display window for her abdomen. It's not armoured in any way and I wouldn't trust the flame resistant treatment after a decade in a cupboard. Particularly with that much skin not even covered.

Don't forget the gap in the cowl for her hair! But, yes, teenage girls, not known for their sense of practical fashion. Never mind the obvious limitations of real-world materials relative to comic-book costumes.

Jack catches the Cosmic Staff in his right hand and… For a moment, smiles. Then he goes back to glaring at the delinquent who stole it from the person who took it from the person who borrowed it and didn't return it.

"I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate."
"So what does that make us?"
"Absolutely nothing! Which is what you are about to become!"

"Give that b-"

"D-dad?"

Oh, you in trouble now, guuurl..

"-ack you jerk!"

Rick Tyler looks at Matt in shock for a moment, then his face hardens. "What the fuck! I thought you were supposed to be dead!"

Had to look him up for a moment: The son of the original, who ended up addicted to Miraclo in the comics. Also married Jesse Chambers, the daughter of Liberty Belle and Jesse Quick, uniting three separate legacies in one couple.

"Ah, no. I'm Matthew Tyler. We're related, but… Distantly. I had been under the impression that you were living with your uncle?"

"Yeah."

And his expression says exactly how he feels about that.

Ah. Not a happy family, then.

"Ah. Is now a good time to catch up? I'll buy you a coffee?"

Rick sullens at Matt for a moment.

"If you make it a beer, sure."

Ah, the proper way to sort things out between Bros. Even if one might be underage.

"I think -given the circumstances- my morality subroutines will accept that proposition. Which way to the local liquor store?"

As the two of them walk off I notice that Courtney's taken the opportunity to march up to Jack, who doesn't look even slightly impressed.

I honestly doubt she'd impress anyone. Even if things kind of worked out on the show (haven't seen it, remember,) she's been reaaal stupid. So many things could have gone wrong.

"Give it back! That's my dad's!"

"No, it's my dad's."

And he has a stronger claim to it than you do, young lady.

She grabs it while he's still holding onto it, prompting him to shake his head and let go. She smiles slightly and tries to pull it towards herself, only for it not to move at all.

"What? What's going on!?"

"It's designed to recognise its owner's brainwaves, and I'm its owner."

Clever device to prevent it being misused. I'm guessing once it powered up, its' security came back online.

"No, it-. You're Sylvester Pemberton's son?"

This tine, Jack outright scowls.

"No, I'm Doctor Theodore Knight's son. The guy who was the first Starman and who lent Sly his spare staff."

Hell, in the comics, Pemberton used a Cosmic Converter belt to empower himself, and that was on Earth-2 pre-Crisis. The whole Cosmic Staff thing only came in post-crisis...

The Staff floats upwards two metres, with Courtney hanging off it for several moments until she finally gives up and drops back down to the road surface.

"Ah." Tommy approaches the young woman who has somehow managed to fit herself into Ted Grant's old costume. "I don't really care about that costume. Dad always hated it. Said it threw off his instincts. But kids shouldn't be fighting serial killers, which is what you're signing up for if you put that on. So go home, change out of it, and give it back to Pat."

Hmm... Is he actually a were-feline here, or would they drop that bit for budget reasons, I wonder.

Courtney jumps up to try and reach the staff as Pieter steps out of the shadows to take the goggles off the twelve year old who somehow got her hands on them. Fortunately, she's smart enough to see how this is going and surrenders them without a fight.

...Seriously? That's going a bit far, especially in a realistic setting like this. What the hell was Courtney thinking?

From the glowing platform we're standing on, Barbara Whitmore shakes her head in astonishment.

"I'm.. so sorry. I had no idea Pat even had the.. staff. I certainly didn't know that Courtney was using it. I'm going to be laying down the law with both of them."

Hopefully doling out some spankings, I hope. Merely talking isn't going to drive the message home enough...

Jennie nods.

"Just so long as you make it clear that it really isn't safe for children to be involved in this."

Especially ones without any kind of training. That was really irresponsible...

"And just to make sure…" I smile as my construct microfiche reader finds a picture of Injustice Society front man Sportsmaster in the local paper. "We'll pick up all of the remaining Injustice Society members before we leave town."

And this is why the Lantern was quietly ignored in the show: A fully operational Lantern just makes a mockery of everyone else.

So, this would basically render the show's plot non-existent. Unless Courtney can somehow work her way into convincing her step-dad and the others that someone needs to take up the mantles, and they somehow have spontaneous fits of stupid to allow her and her friends to do so... If that somehow happened, I assume this Paul would become the team's leader and chief mentor.

Vaermina · Jul 7, 2020

Darko said:
It would explain how he got the staff in the first place.

And I don't think the show ever said that Sylvester was the first Starman.

It is also a whole lot safer to give the staff to the creators adult son, who is also a superhero, than it is to leave it in the hands of a n untrained teenage girl.

So yes, Zoat invented it for his story.

See, that's bad writing.

Not on it's own mind you, but he had his SI criticize the canon characters for taking their canon actions and not taking his AU invented elements into account. Which is very much bad writing.

Idkusername · Jul 7, 2020

Vaermina said:
So yes, Zoat invented it for his story.

See, that's bad writing.

Not on it's own mind you, but he had his SI criticize the canon characters for not taking his AU invented elements into account. Which is very much bad writing.

Oh wow! A fanfiction that changes stuff from the original story? What a novel idea!

And really, if you're reading DC fiction and complaining about changes from the author, I really don't know what to tell you.

Besides, why does a change in the setting surprise you? It's not the first time it happened. You should know that's it's part of the story. You might as well ask why it focuses on Paul at all if we have a host of other canon characters that we could follow. That would be an equally pointless objection.

Massgamer · Jul 7, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Pieter steps out of the shadows to take the goggles off the twelve year old who somehow got her hands on them. Fortunately, she's smart enough to see how this is going and surrenders them without a fight.

Who is 12 year old? In the show the goggles went to https://stargirl.fandom.com/wiki/Beth_Chapel who is 16.

Vaermina · Jul 7, 2020

Idkusername said:
Oh wow! A fanfiction that changes stuff from the original story? What a novel idea!

And really, if you're reading DC fiction and complaining about changes from the author, I really don't know what to tell you.

Besides, why does a change in the setting surprise you? It's not the first time it happened. You should know that's it's part of the story. You might as well ask why it focuses on Paul at all if we have a host of other canon characters that we could follow. That would be an equally pointless objection.

You're ignoring the fact that I directly stated that it's not changing things that's the problem...

Darko · Jul 7, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Bizarre that the Hourman of the 853rd Century is running around here...

Not as bizarre as some of the other things that happen in the comics, that's for sure.

Vaermina said:
So yes, Zoat invented it for his story.

See, that's bad writing.

Not on it's own mind you, but he had his SI criticize the canon characters for taking their canon actions and not taking his AU invented elements into account. Which is very much bad writing.

Expanding the history of the story you're writing isn't bad writing.

In fact it can be a great form of writing since it enriches the universe he is building.

There was nothing in the show that said that Theodore Knight wasn't the first Starman and then just gave one of his staffs to Sylvester, who later on decided to become another Starman.

In the comics Knight tends to be the first Starman in existence and the others are people that have used the staff and taken up his legacy.

It would make complete sense that he just gave one of his staffs to Pemberton and he decided to become a Starman.

The SI wasn't criticizing the characters for not taking his AU elements into account.

Jack was criticizing Courtney for taking what technically belongs to him, not the SI.

The SI was criticizing the GROUP OF UNTRAINED TEENAGERS WHO WANTED TO FIGHT PEOPLE THAT MANAGED TO KILL VETERAN SUPERHEROES, which is a perfectly valid thing to criticize.

If you somehow believe that letting teenagers do that then I really hope you're not involved with children and their well being, since they'd most likely die after a few days at most.

Handlewithcare · Jul 7, 2020

"Hi. Is your child a superpowered brat? Do they think 'spunk' makes up for training and experience? Are they under the bizarre delusion that their barely teenage years and raging hormones provide them with the capacity to make the correct moral decision for everyone else in a ridoculously complicated world?

Then send them to Green Lanterns Daycare! Where we will gently introduce them to the truth that they are morons!

Superpower related teenage deaths have been down sixty percent ever since we opened!

Most iof them now occur outside this school!!!

So come and leave your idiot little goody two shoes with us and maybe get a rational member of society out of it (noguaranteesprovided,GLDaycareisnotlegallyormorallyresponsiblefornayaccidentsthatmayormaynotoccur)"

Darko · Jul 7, 2020

Handlewithcare said:
"Hi. Is your child a superpowered brat? Do they think 'spunk' makes up for training and experience? Are they under the bizarre delusion that their barely teenage years and raging hormones provide them with the capacity to make the correct moral decision for everyone else in a ridoculously complicated world?

Then send them to Green Lanterns Daycare! Where we will gently introduce them to the truth that they are morons!

Superpower related teenage deaths have been down sixty percent ever since we opened!

Most iof them now occur outside this school!!!

So come and leave your idiot little goody two shoes with us and maybe get a rational member of society out of it (noguaranteesprovided,GLDaycareisnotlegallyormorallyresponsiblefornayaccidentsthatmayormaynotoccur)"

This is basically what happens when a untrained teenager decides to fight crime:

Pakisabi · Jul 7, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
15th June 2020
21:22 GMT -5

Just letting you know, the episode Courtney recruits Rick Tyler and Pat find all the stolen JSA items happened on Halloween.

Idkusername · Jul 7, 2020

Vaermina said:
You're ignoring the fact that I directly stated that it's not changing things that's the problem...

No, the problem was you assuming that any change favourable to the SI is inherently bad writing.

And again, you've seen that people/events not mentioned in canon have been made part of the setting previously. I didn't see you raising a fuss - about this - for, I don't know, 90% of this story. Frankly, if you want to follow tv show logic in a story that doesn't run on the stuff, you're going to end up with a bizarro plot comparable to surrealist art.

Mr Zoat · Jul 7, 2020

Massgamer said:
Mr Zoat, what do you think of show overall anyway?

I haven't watched it. I just like to watch Mr Unlimited's reviews.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Then again, the internet exists. If she didn't before, she sure as heck knows now.

You're strongly underestimating how self-absorbed Courtney is.

Okay, That's a fair excuse. I'll take it he doesn't have the S.T.R.I.P.E exosuit here. Or at least, it's not ready yet.

He does, but it's as mechanical as he could make it.

Hmm... Is he actually a were-felinehere, or would they drop that bit for budget reasons, I wonder.

Guess who's not limited by budget!

...Seriously? That's going a bit far, especially in a realistic setting like this. What the hell was Courtney thinking?

And this is why the Lantern was quietly ignored in the show: A fully operational Lantern just makes a mockery of everyone else.

No, Flash would still be competative. As would Power Girl or Captain Marvel.

Idkusername · Jul 7, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Spoiler: She's not actually 12, but...

Image doesn't work.

0/10, bad writing, abandoning story.

Mr Zoat · Jul 7, 2020

Idkusername said:
Image doesn't work.

0/10, bad writing, abandoning story.

Should work now.

Basically, she's short and wearing a uniform made for someone significantly taller. The SI here doesn't know how old she actually is due to his lack of AI.

Stsword · Jul 7, 2020

Darko said:
Jack was criticizing Courtney for taking what technically belongs to him, not the SI.

The SI was criticizing the GROUP OF UNTRAINED TEENAGERS WHO WANTED TO FIGHT PEOPLE THAT MANAGED TO KILL VETERAN SUPERHEROES, which is a perfectly valid thing to criticize.

If you somehow believe that letting teenagers do that then I really hope you're not involved with children and their well being, since they'd most likely die after a few days at most.

Yeah, sorry, Darko, but I have to call shenanigans here.

If Mr Knight had wanted Jack to have the staff, Jack would have had the staff, not Pemberton. Which makes it quite clear what Mr Knight thought about Jack having the staff.

You know, the actual inventor and person who actually had say in who gets it.

Lent it to him? Based on what, the word of someone who undoubtedly wasn't even there?

What makes it worse, is that the staff had been missing for ten years here, while Jack apparently did shit. The Injustice Society could have had it!!!! And I repeat, apparently Jack did shit.

But that is apparently par for the course, because apparently the entire Infinity Inc is pretty damn useless. The Justice Society was murdered a decade ago and now, after Stripesy manages to find them by accident, now they finally get around to doing something? PATHETIC. Stripesy was left with artifacts of power, which the Infinity Inc couldn't be bothered to care for about ten years? PATHETIC.

Which makes Jack a worth than useless moron and if there were any justice the staff would have beat him senseless since brain damage apparently can't make him any less useful.

The moral of this update wasn't that superheroing is dangerous, it's that the world needs heroes whose competence level actually looks good in comparison to the keystone cops, because Pat wouldn't have had the JSA artifacts in the first place, nor would practically every other person in Blue Valley be a supervillain to fight if Infinity Inc had displayed any competence.

Sceptic · Jul 7, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Guess who's not limited by budget!

Someone other than you?

zeebza · Jul 7, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
I haven't watched it. I just like to watch Mr Unlimited's reviews.

Sorry if this annoying but wouldn't be a good idea to have actually watched the show before doing this? Since you basing this on just someone else thoughts and not your own? Sorry again if this a bad question

Darko · Jul 7, 2020

Stsword said:
Yeah, sorry, Darko, but I have to call shenanigans here.

If Mr Knight had wanted Jack to have the staff, Jack would have had the staff, not Pemberton. Which makes it quite clear what Mr Knight thought about Jack having the staff.

You know, the actual inventor and person who actually had say in who gets it.

Lent it to him? Based on what, the word of someone who undoubtedly wasn't even there?

Another reason for Sylvester having the staff all this time could be that Knight died after lending him the staff and he didn't want to give it back to Jack.

Another reason he may have let Sylvester have that staff all this time is because he didn't consider it important enough to try and take it back. And this doesn't mean that he was okay with him having the staff, it just means that it was on the bottom of his list of concerns.

Jack also may not have tried to make that big of a fuss since at least the staff was in the hands of a good guy, but after he discovered that it can be taken by a teenage girl his attitude to who keeps the staff is most likely going to change.

What makes you think that Knight didn't tell his son, or wrote something, about lending the staff.

Stsword said:
What makes it worse, is that the staff had been missing for ten years here, while Jack apparently did shit. The Injustice Society could have had it!!!! And I repeat, apparently Jack did shit.

But that is apparently par for the course, because apparently the entire Infinity Inc is pretty damn useless. The Justice Society was murdered a decade ago and now, after Stripesy manages to find them by accident, now they finally get around to doing something? PATHETIC. Stripesy was left with artifacts of power, which the Infinity Inc couldn't be bothered to care for about ten years? PATHETIC.

Which makes Jack a worth than useless moron and if there were any justice the staff would have beat him senseless since brain damage apparently can't make him any less useful.

The moral of this update wasn't that superheroing is dangerous, it's that the world needs heroes whose competence level actually looks good in comparison to the keystone cops.

What makes you think that Infinity Inc. didn't know that Pat had the things for years?

Jack apparently knew that Pat had the staff, probably since Sylvester died.

The rest of Infinity Inc. could have decided to let him keep the things since he had some experience in superheroing and is a good guy, but now they've seen that it was a mistake after a teenager was able to get a hold of them.

If there was any justice in the universe the staff would have broken down the moment Courtney decided to go on her stupid quest.

The moral of this story isn't that superheroing is dangerous, or what you said it was, it's that you shouldn't let untrained children do a dangerous job which involves fighting veteran killers.

EDIT: Oh and the fact that Jennifer had the Lantern with her instead of it being with Pat is a good indication that they knew he had some of the artifacts and just let him keep some of them, like the staff, because they trusted him not to abuse it and the fact that he was the sidekick of the former Starman means that he probably knows at least some things about the staff, not a lot since he's not a electric engineer, but still probably at least a bit to safely wield it.

Prince Charon · Jul 7, 2020

Darko said:
Her actions were as worse as they appeared, the writers of the show just made it so that we would agree with her actions.

<SNIP>

The more I learn about this show, the more annoyed I am that they didn't try to do something closer to the comics.

Stsword said:
Yeah, sorry, Darko, but I have to call shenanigans here.

If Mr Knight had wanted Jack to have the staff, Jack would have had the staff, not Pemberton. Which makes it quite clear what Mr Knight thought about Jack having the staff.

Note, please, the red portion, below:

Mr Zoat said:
"No, I'm Doctor Theodore Knight's son. The guy who was the first Starman and who lent Sly his spare staff."

Spare. Not the only one.

As for the show, what we know of the show's weird version of Pemberton is that he 'found' the cosmic staff, which is pretty vague (and I'm not sure how accurate the wiki is on this). That implies that someone else made it, and does allow for Dr. Knight lending it to him.

Darko · Jul 7, 2020

Prince Charon said:
As for the show, what we know of the show's weird version of Pemberton is that he 'found' the cosmic staff, which is pretty vague (and I'm not sure how accurate the wiki is on this).

If he just found it and didn't have it given to him by its inventor then Jack claim over it is much stronger.

Mquz · Jul 7, 2020

I think what Vaermina is arguing is that it's bad writing to invent original elements and then not change what happens in the original story to adjust for them. There is no explanation here how canon Stargirl hasn't had preety much the same events happen to her - how did Paul's involvement change anything to result in the current sequence of events? Wouldn't the same thing have happened in the original work if these characters were in it? I think he kind of has a point here - but I haven't watched the show. Is the explanation just that this is an AU of Stargirl?

Slayer Anderson · Jul 7, 2020

I'm honestly not sure that this show is worth getting upset over, even if some people don't like Zoat's specific alterations or the timeline or continuity.

For the most part, everyone seems pants-on-head retarded and the canon world seems to bend over backwards to give an entitled brat justification to go out and play lethal games with mass murderers while involving her friends and family without the majority having knowledge or consent.

All in all, this show seems objectively terrible to the point where anything of any quality written within it is basically attempting to polish a turd to a shine.

I'm not saying it can't be done to everyone's satisfaction, Mythbusters proved that, I'm just saying that making something worthwhile out of Stargirl looks like it would take an entire dedicated story the size of the main Paragon or Renegade continuity in and of itself, and I don't want to read that. So I can't really work up the wherewithall to care about what this chapter does well or badly.

Mquz · Jul 7, 2020

Slayer Anderson said:
I'm honestly not sure that this show is worth getting upset over, even if some people don't like Zoat's specific alterations or the timeline or continuity.

For the most part, everyone seems pants-on-head retarded and the canon world seems to bend over backwards to give an entitled brat justification to go out and play lethal games with mass murderers while involving her friends and family without the majority having knowledge or consent.

All in all, this show seems objectively terrible to the point where anything of any quality written within it is basically attempting to polish a turd to a shine.

I'm not saying it can't be done to everyone's satisfaction, Mythbusters proved that, I'm just saying that making something worthwhile out of Stargirl looks like it would take an entire dedicated story the size of the main Paragon or Renegade continuity in and of itself, and I don't want to read that. So I can't really work up the wherewithall to care about what this chapter does well or badly.

I don't know, the Arrowverse has quite a few things going for it. Some parts are bad like Stargirl but it's a decent setting with not that much wrong with it.

Slayer Anderson · Jul 7, 2020

Mquz said:
I don't know, the Arrowverse has quite a few things going for it. Some parts are bad like Stargirl but it's a decent setting with not that much wrong with it.

I'm not even going to try and address the problems inherent with crossing this show over with Arrow or The Flash.

However, I'm not automatically dismissing either of the other shows just because someone made a bad entry into their collective timeline. My comments were referring to Stargirl's narrative alone, not the other two.

Sceptic · Jul 7, 2020

Maybe it was because I'd just woken up, but I had a bit harder of a time working out what was going on in this episode than normal.

Mr Zoat · Jul 7, 2020

zeebza said:
Sorry if this annoying but wouldn't be a good idea to have actually watched the show before doing this? Since you basing this on just someone else thoughts and not your own? Sorry again if this a bad question

I watched Ang Lee's Hulk in a cinema. That was the last time I watched a film without knowing the story in advance.

If I was going to write about the setting in detail then yes, I would need to watch all of the episodes and read as much associated material as I could. Since I'm just riffing on it for a thousand words or so there isn't the same need.

Mquz said:
I think what Vaermina is arguing is that it's bad writing to invent original elements and then not change what happens in the original story to adjust for them. There is no explanation here how canon Stargirl hasn't had preety much the same events happen to her - how did Paul's involvement change anything to result in the current sequence of events? Wouldn't the same thing have happened in the original work if these characters were in it? I think he kind of has a point here - but I haven't watched the show. Is the explanation just that this is an AU of Stargirl?

Changing the bad writing in Stargirl would be like making the Equestrian military competent. If I did that then canon wouldn't happen. If there's something specific you're referring to like the date then let me know and I can change it.

Edit: Stargirl is a character who nearly killed everyone in intensive care by shutting off power to a hospital. The only reason she didn't is that Yolanda pointed that out.

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