With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darth.Bill]

Dresden Files: Small Favor by Jim Butcher.

 

[Ganurath]

I can't comment on Pact, but... I mean, yes, it was the best of a bad bunch of post-Weatherlight books, but 'Novels and Storylines' on the WotC board got renamed 'Storylines' and the whole forum got banned from talking about them for a reason.

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That reason was the Onslaught trilogy, all three books of which were by J. Robert King. That, or forum mismanagement. Alarming number of photographs of distended rectums stuffed with bandanas, in those days.

 

[Gazing Eye]

Ironically if I was asked that question I'd unironically answer "With This Ring"

Or Ciaphas Cain.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

13th April
16:01 GMT -5

"What's your favorite book?"

I.. frown slightly. Leonard generally doesn't bother with personal questions, and… He doesn't respond all that well if I try asking them. But it's not as if it's a security risk.

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A regular meeting with Leonard 'Captain Cold' Snart. He's still in prison, isn't he? Belle Reve, I suppose.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Small Gods, by Terry Pratchett."

He looks away pensively.

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"I, uh... I never heard of him..."

"Second favourite?"

"Night Watch, also by Terry Pratchett."

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You have class, at least, that's one of the best Discworld novels.

"He your favourite author?"

"Yes. Um, if you're interested… I'm sorry, but he doesn't exist in this reality, and I've only ever been able to do a ninety six percent recreation of Small Gods…"

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Man, if only you could have accessed the internet in a place Sir Terry did write. Snag a collection of e-books. Too bad you didn't get the chance in the Buffyverse. Then again, early internet era anyway.

"No, it's… Something Wizard said."

"Wiz-?"

If Wizard's out then I need to speak to John-.

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The joy of there only being so many logical cape names. Sooner or later, someone's going to end up with the same name as someone else, who might not want to share.

"Weather Wizard, not.. whoever you were thinking of."

"William Zard. He operates under the name 'Wizard' and he was one of the people responsible for Roanoke Island."

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Yeah, not a good association for Mardon.

Leonard looks right at me, his eyes widening slightly. "Shit. Yeah, not him. I never even heard of him."

"You might want to suggest to Mister Mardon that he consider a different abbreviation. If the police hear someone call him 'Wizard', they might just shoot first without checking."

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'Weather Warlock', perhaps. Or 'The Meteomancer..." On second thoughts, no. That makes him sound like a magical cook (meaty-o-mancer...)

"See, this was what he was talking about. You just gave me advice to give him so he doesn't get killed because the cops thought he was someone else."

"Okay?"

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Well, Mardon could be useful concerning weather control tech. Would you want to risk losing that to a nervous Central City cop?

"Do you have people..? Superheroes, who are total psychos?"

"I… Generally wouldn't call people like that 'superheroes'. I mean… There was The Reaper in Gotham. That was after Green Lantern One left but before Batman started working there. He murdered.. quite a lot of people. Quite a lot of them had it coming…" I frown. "Do you actually know anything about Gotham?"

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Besides 'Don't go there, it's fucked up'?

"Everyone who lives there is crazy."

"Hey, I live-. Yeah, okay."

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At least he can laugh at himself. Can you see Batman making a joke like that?

"I went to Gotham once, 'cause Mister Freeze had some equipment I needed. Never went back again."

"Right, but the city's history?"

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A long, sordid tale of bad people using good people...

"Used to be an alright place, then manufacturing jobs left and crime went up." My surprise clearly shows on my face. "What? I go to Kadabra's lectures."

"Sorry, sorry, I know you're intelligent, I just didn't think you were interested in that sort of thing."

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Everyone has hidden depths, OL. Just because he doesn't show it doesn't mean he doesn't know it.

"No point robbing someone with no money."

I give him a mildly disappointed look, to which he responds with a small smile.

"What? There isn't."

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He's got a fair point. No profit in taking from the poor. Just bad karma.

"So the Reaper… The place had gone to pot. The mob owned the police, the politicians and the judges. So the Reaper decided to kill them all."

His smile grows slightly. "Didn't do a very good job."

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Dude, do you know what Gotham was like before Batman? 'Cesspool' would be being charitable.

"There were a lot of them. He killed quite a few of them, then got too badly injured to carry on. By the time he was fighting fit again, Batman was in his second year and the police were starting to get straightened out. But he didn't care and went right back to murdering. Two honest policemen killed and several injured, Batman decided that the only way to keep the death toll down was to make a deal with the mobs-"

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I mean... I can see him making them useful to him, but...

"What?"

"-for information."

"No, no, you can't just drop something like that and keep talking."

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I know, right? Seriously, that's...

"What? Batman hated them, but the Reaper killed a lot of people in a short space of time. He thought that with their help he could deal with the Reaper in a few weeks, but that the mobs would be a long term problem whatever he did."

"And given that Batman's still around and the Reaper isn't, I can guess how it went."

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That's usually what happens when Batman is involved in something. Or any popular hero, really. Yay for the Law of Narrative Causality.

"The Reaper's motives were a lot like Batman's. And his aims were too. But his methods weren't. If he'd been a little more discerning… I mean, Gotham was pretty bad. But the moment he killed honest police officers escorting a criminal they already had in custody, no one thought he was a superhero. He was just another serial killer."

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And he makes a good example of why Batman shouldn't kill people, too. I mean, sure, Bats says 'I wouldn't be able to stop', but that's a worst-case scenario. And as the Texans say: Some people need killin'.

"But a supervillain's a supervillain."

"I'd.. encourage you not to think about it in such binary terms."

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Yeah, you can be a punch-clock villain, with an honest moral code. Or you could be an asshole knight paladin of a 'hero' with no room for shades of grey in your worldview. There's all sorts.

He leans back in his chair and waves his right hand. "I mean, the more violent a superhero is, the less heroic they are. But for a supervillain, the more violent you are, the more villainous you are."

"That's… Surprisingly philosophical. What brought this on?"

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There's still a point where you go from mere villain to complete monster. Joker is a good example of the latter.

"The day after I told you Luthor offered me a job, I started getting letters. WayneTech, KordTech, a few other places…"

"Mister Luthor may not be Alva, but I'd still be much happier with you working somewhere else. Almost anywhere else, in fact. It would be like putting a bottle of whiskey down next to an alcoholic."

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Dude... His dad was... Ah. That was intentional.

A reference to his father usually gets a scowl out of him, but he just looks away again.

"It's about class."

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Yep. The Rogues have a code of honour. You don't backstab each other, you don't hurt anyone who isn't getting in your way, and you don't be a dick about the work.

"In what sense?"

"When I thought about what sort of supervillain I wanted to be. When I started out." He shakes his head. "I know Doc Quinzel wants me to say I'm lashing out at society 'cause I want to lash out at my dad, and… Yeah, she's probably.. not wrong. But you don't tell yourself.. you're stealing from innocent people 'cause you can. You… Dress it up in your own head, too. Like, there was a story about one of the banks in Central City foreclosing on a whole lot of mortgages. I think.. one of the car factories closed and put a lot of people out of work." He shrugs. "So I robbed their vault. I didn't do it because they foreclosed; I don't know anyone who got a loan from them. I did it because… The fact they did that made it okay. They were bad, so… If I make their lives harder, so what?"

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Acceptable targets. It's still bad, but it's bad people suffering so it's okay? But the CEOs don't feel the hit from it. It's the people underneath them, all the way down to the tellers, who cop wage cuts to cover the insurance hike...

He smiles.

"If I shot some security guy dead when I was robbing a place, that's murder. And if I shot a psycho like Joker dead, it's still murder, but…"

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As I said before: Some people need killin'. I think Batman might be a little miffed, but most Gothamites won't shed a tear for old Jack.

"But he has it coming, so it's easier to tell yourself that's why you did it. You don't have to internalise 'I'm a guy who will kill anyone to get his way'."

"Yeah. Wiz-. Mark said something like that, once. 'Ask someone what their favorite book is'. 'cause… Anyone who's read a book has a favourite book, even if they don't like it much." He shrugs. "Right? And it's not like it's a big secret or anything. The only reason not to tell someone is if you've literally never read a book, or you're such a total psycho that you can't… Have a conversation without turning it into a fight."

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Insightful. A good way to tell the okay people from the bad... But not a perfect one.

"And I don't think I'm that person. I know I never wanted to be. But I also know I can't tell you what my favourite book is."

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It's not like you don't have time to read. Why not hit up the prison library?

It's easy to forget guys like Leonard are actually pretty smart. But something like this is a good reminder that he's not just a thug with an ice gun. I honestly find myself hoping he can finally go straight... But then I remember how well that usually goes for Rogues.
And on the topic of favourite books? I don't have a particular favourite, but Pratchett's Discworld and Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series are always a good read. The earlier David Eddings fantasy series (Belgariad, Elenium and their sequels) tend to be my popcorn reads, something comfortable when you want to relax.

"What's your favorite book?"

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"What's your favourite book?"

'Ask someone what their favorite book is'.

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'Ask someone what their favourite book is'.

 

[King of Frost]

I've been meaning to read the Terry Pratchett's series, still haven't even started any of them.

My favorite book series is probably either "The Dresden Files" or the "Suzumiya Haruhi" books honestly.

 

[RichardWhereat]

I've been meaning to read the Terry Pratchett's series, still haven't even started any of them.

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Start with Equal Rites, if later Rincewind books interest you, you can always go back. But the first two Discworld Books are almost standalone compared to the rest of the series.

 

[LiamOfOrmonde]

My favorite book is also by Terry Pratchett. Thing is, I can't tell you what it is exactly because my feelings are equally tied between The Last Continent and Snuff. Raising Steam was good too, but reading it makes me feel a bit too sad for me to call it my favorite. The Last Continent feels like a story about how you can't escape fate, except when you do. Snuff feels like a story where you are on the backdrop by the awfulness there is in the world. Leaning more forwards The Last Continent because of Rincewind.

When I was young I wanted to be like Rincewind. Not cause he was a WIZZARD of course. I wanted to be like Rincewind because he escaped. He endured. No matter what the world threw at him he lived as best as he could and undoubtably made the world a better place as he made his way in life. Rincewind had a strength I envied. His resilience even when it felt like the whole world was against him was something I admired as a child, and still do to this day.

 

[Sockmonkey]

Probably Robert Asprin's "Myth" series. The stories flow well enough that none of the bits feel like something you have to slog through to get to the good part.

 

[Mr Zoat]

"What's your favourite book?"
'Ask someone what their favourite book is'.

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Leonard Snart is American. Isn't that how they spell it?

My favorite book is also by Terry Pratchett. Thing is, I can't tell you what it is exactly because my feelings are equally tied between The Last Continent and Snuff. Raising Steam was good too, but reading it makes me feel a bit too sad for me to call it my favorite. The Last Continent feels like a story about how you can't escape fate, except when you do. Snuff feels like a story where you are on the backdrop by the awfulness there is in the world. Leaning more forwards The Last Continent because of Rincewind.

When I was young I wanted to be like Rincewind. Not cause he was a WIZZARD of course. I wanted to be like Rincewind because he escaped. He endured. No matter what the world threw at him he lived as best as he could and undoubtedly made the world a better place as he made his way in life. Rincewind had a strength I envied. His resilience even when it felt like the whole world was against him was something I admired as a child, and still do to this day.

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I couldn't finish Raising Steam. Snuff felt like generic fantasy, but Raising Steam was genuinely bad.

 

[david]

I honestly find myself hoping he can finally go straight... But then I remember how well that usually goes for Rogues.

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on the other hand, you can say the same thing about Batman and women, rogues aren't contractually obligated to be miserable and/or villains in this story.

 

[Ngamer11]

Seeing Snart being so cooperative makes me wish the Team could meet Peter Wynne for some reason. It would interest Paul at least, who said he would have liked to see a pure uplift version of himself back in Episode 24: Fool's Canon.

I also really hope Snart can become a legitimate inventor and work in WayneTech to improve the world.

All in all, nice conversation between OL and a reforming supervillain.

 

[edmantgoog]

13th April
16:01 GMT -5."

"And I don't think I'm that person. I know I never wanted to be. But I also know I can't tell you what my favorite book is."

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Just the sadest but also most endearing thing I have read this year

 

[geniusboi]

You know what? I like these moments where paul just talks with people more than the action or intense scenes. The author should do more of them, especially one with diana, I feel like we didn't get that much of cute paul and diana intersections, they are always related to missions and paul keeps calling her sir which makes me sad

 

[LiamOfOrmonde]

I couldn't finish Raising Steam. Snuff felt like generic fantasy, but Raising Steam was genuinely bad.

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I appreciate the message that Snuff tries to convey, albeit poorly. Also the idea of Nobby Nobbs hooking up with a goblin girl is hilarious. The quality of those books does genuinely feel like they have dropped in some areas compared to the rest of his works, but to be fair those two books were the first two books he wrote when his Alzheimers started getting really bad.

 

[OrigamiPhoenix]

I can't comment on Pact, but... I mean, yes, it was the best of a bad bunch of post-Weatherlight books, but 'Novels and Storylines' on the WotC board got renamed 'Storylines' and the whole forum got banned from talking about them for a reason.

Click to shrink...

I'd appreciate some more context here.

 

[Pinklestia]

I have many books I like, but one of the ones I have read a lot is Dick Sand, A Captain at Fifteen by Jules Verne.

It may not be the masterpiece that Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea was but it was the most "for kids" book he ever wrote and I was a kid when I first read it.

Yes even with the Captain and sailors death.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Leonard Snart is American. Isn't that how they spell it?

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The problem is, he switches between 'favorite' and 'favourite' several times. For instance, his second and third lines in the scene, after the first correction... I just went for the lesser number of apparent errors. Otherwise, every occurence of 'favourite' in his dialogue is wrong...

 

[Grimnar]

Probably Guards, Guards! for me.

God I love that series.

 

[Chaoswind]

I couldn't honestly answer about a favorite book and I have read plenty... On the other hand I can readily answer what is my favorite video game (Chrono Trigger), my favorite visual novel (Muv Luv even if the Fate stay series is universe is better) and favorite web serial novel (Mushoku Tensei)...

I guess since visual components are such a huge part of the focus of how I store long lasting memories, most books just don't have enough an actual impact for me, fanfiction is slightly different because my favorites are retellings of universes that were already visual. The one outlier would be the web serial Mushoku Tensei, but I read it when it had already one of the light novel volumes already released thus I had the images of the first volume on hand to associate the characters of the novel.

 

[Ej190]

Dresden files for me.

The 1st 3 books are a bit rough but man, the books after hook you to the series so hard.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I'd appreciate some more context here.

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I used to play a game called Magic: the Gathering, produced by a company called Wizards of the Coast. I also used to frequent their forum. One of the boards on the forum was called 'Novels and Storylines', where people discussed the fictional works associated with the game. At the time, each of the three card sets released every year had a novel associated with them. The first few I read were... Okay. Some interesting ideas, no real depth. Some people liked them, some didn't.

Then the Onslaught block happened. Three books of pure crap, and the forum united in its opinion on the subject. And the Mods had an episode, and I think this is where my distaste for moderators started. Initially, the forum was shut completely. Then they put it back with 'Novels' shorn from the name and a firm instruction to everyone not to discuss the novels. Which provoked the response: 'How do we discuss the storyline without discussing the novels?'

It was a classic case of 'once people start talking in ways we don't want them to, shut it down and pretend it was always against the rules'.

The problem is, he switches between 'favorite' and 'favourite' several times. For instance, his second and third lines in the scene, after the first correction... I just went for the lesser number of apparent errors. Otherwise, every occurence of 'favourite' in his dialogue is wrong...

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I'll correct those then, thank you.

 

[Belenus]

"And I don't think I'm that person. I know I never wanted to be. But I also know I can't tell you what my favorite book is."

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That is really very sad.

Since we're comparing favorite books, mine would have to be Lord of the Rings. Been my favorite since I was 8 years old, don't see that changing any time soon.

 

[Prince Charon]

I like a lot of books, but I'm really not good at settling on a favourite anything.

 

[FeepingCreature]

Hm.

I think I'd have to say Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect. I think Egan's Permutation City is the one that influenced my philosophy the most, but it's not very *good*; Egan is way better at ideas than people. And both MoPI and Blindsight have influenced me a lot, Blindsight probably more, but MoPI is the first book aside maybe the Culture series that I'd read that actually formulated a halfway plausible utopia actually worth living in. (Even if the characters disagree.)

And of course Pratchett is more skilled than all of those as an author, but I feel the Discworld series has sometimes a hard time transcending the tropes it invokes, and when it does, it's to emphasize a point I'll probably already agree with. I love Discworld, but it never blew my mind. (And for a series that bemoans treating people as things, it has a sore lack of genuinely relatable villains...)

 

[Queshire]

My favorite book is generally whatever I've read most recently. =_='

 

[CTrees]

Favorite author is definitely Neal Stephenson, but my favorite of his books? Either Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon, or the first half of Seveneves, but identifying which is my favorite is difficult.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

I'll correct those then, thank you.

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Hate to be the one to point it out, but...

"Second favourite?"

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...You missed one.

 

[néocorvinus]

"And I don't think I'm that person. I know I never wanted to be. But I also know I can't tell you what my favorite book is."

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Even considering how intelligent the guy is, he must at least have read a book about engineering. K say his favorite book is porn

 

[Xelloss]

My fav is Les Trois Mousquetaires de Dumas Père. Action, Romance, and lots of historical side notes.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

...You missed one.

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You see, the problem is he's translating this strange language, 'American', for English speakers. Oh? You mean there might be Americans reading this?

("Two people(s), separated by a common language" )
((irony; if the Roman Empire was still around we might all be using Latin... No, I don't think the European Union is a disguised version of it. ))