With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Bigking321]

How on earth does cleansing a evil wizards hut with holy fire in DC end up with someone being in might and magic?

That's a bizarre connection.

On the other hand... My little pony is a part of the setting. Hmm...

 

[Mr Zoat]

How on earth does cleansing a evil wizards hut with holy fire in DC end up with someone being in might and magic?

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The SI doesn't know, but if you look at what Zor's magic did in Seven Soldiers you can sort of work it out.

 

[Darko]

Well...Barring from the Black Ring in the Buffyverse, this is our first alt confirmed dead. Guess we need a term for the Actively Unalive class of Pauls to separate from the more....stationary ones.

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I think so e versions of him died during the fight with Krona.

Or he at least thought that not everyone was going to make it out alive.

Forgotten Realms gods use Divine Power, not magic.

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And that's different compared to the various divine entities Paul has encountered in what way.

Really? And what did the Endless think of that? Because that's basically what the Forgotten Realm's Greater Dieties are.

But it gets worse! Because their equilivant of the Source said the one and only time they can use their full powers is to smite intruding beings like Orange Lantern.

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And do they interfere every time something like that happens?

No, they don't.

Cool, that's new. I wonder if Oh El will make an attempt to resurrect this bloke. Might be excessively difficult given the presumed lack of a soul, though.

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Not necessarily.

Anti-Green Paul lacked a soul but the Lazarus Pit still worked for him.

 

[Mr Zoat]

though he doesn't touch the controls because it's not time for that.

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Thank me, corrected.

 

[Duke Long]

"I remember, Senator, that you have a rather different answer prior to your…" he points to his face. "Empurata and mnemosurgery."

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'had'?

The SI doesn't know, but if you look at what Zor's magic did in Seven Soldiers you can sort of work it out.

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Because of this I looked into Zor a bit, and apparently he transformed Zatanna into Zorina, and that was the origin of antimatter Zatanna's name in this story, which was alluded to with Oh El feeling he knew the name from somewhere when he first heard it. I just thought that was neat, I'd never given much thought to where the name came from.

Also it seems like Zor might be some sort of metafictional entity. There's an obvious line to be drawn between that and Oh El appearing in a video game setting, but I'm not able to see any specific explanation.

Not necessarily.

Anti-Green Paul lacked a soul but the Lazarus Pit still worked for him.

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Oh yeah, forgot about that. I don't know if his Lazarus Pits work the same as Oh El's, but if they do that's an easy rez.

 

[NightmareWarden]

Oh yeah, forgot about that. I don't know if his Lazarus Pits work the same as Oh El's, but if they do that's an easy rez.

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Those pits are a limited renewable resource, which Paul's likely inclined to limit the use of to his friends. Or a solution to unusual problems which basically require a revival.
Unless Paul learns that this Paul is trapped in hell due to his death, I don't think there will be a revival.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'had'?

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Bolo]

….So can other Paul be resurrected? Would two be better than one or no soul no dice?

 

[Chaoswind]

Because of this I looked into Zor a bit, and apparently he transformed Zatanna into Zorina, and that was the origin of antimatter Zatanna's name in this story

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So OL traded places with a dead him? does that mean Blaze and the demon girl also traded places with other selves?

Its this dead Paul about to become a new Grundy?

 

[AverusBlack]

Back Here

OL was taking some time off work to play in a game of 40k with Zatanna and some folks, and he decided that he'd be 'in character' for the whole thing....as a Demon of Slannesh....complete with accouterments.

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Yes but the bit I'm missing is how OL and Zatanna cosplaying related to OL ending up in Heroes of Might and Magic now. It's two franchises I know almost nothing about so I look like this at the moment.

Is this another thing like the power rangers segment? Something from what Ambush Bug did to him?

 

[Duke Long]

So OL traded places with a dead him? does that mean Blaze and the demon girl also traded places with other selves?

Its this dead Paul about to become a new Grundy?

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Maybe? But I feel like my poor wording might have confused you, from what I can tell Zor didn't do any universe trading to transform Zatanna in the comics, he just used reality warping magic.

There could be some place trading going on here but I don't think there's any strong reason to believe so, particularly given the presence of the corpse. The corpse probably isn't an illusion given that it appears real to ring scans, though for all I know these people are capable of making perfect illusions like that, I'm not familiar with the setting. And of course this entire place could be an illusion of some sort based on Oh El's memories.

Yes but the bit I'm missing is how OL and Zatanna cosplaying related to OL ending up in Heroes of Might and Magic now. It's two franchises I know almost nothing about so I look like this at the moment.

Is this another thing like the power rangers segment? Something from what Ambush Bug did to him?

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You don't really need setting knowledge here. There's no plot-relevant link between those things. The chain of logic is thus:

Oh El is transported to Ashan by presently unknown means, which are presumably related to Zachary Zor's magic and maybe Boss Smiley since Oh El was talking about him -> Minotaurs in Heroes of Might and Magic V have pierced nipples -> Oh El sees a minotaur and is disgusted by the nipple piercings -> Long ago, Oh El costumed as a daemonette, which involved piercing his right nipple -> Therefore it is claimed that it is hypocritical of Oh El to be disgusted by nipple piercings.

Pretty sure the Ambush Bug things happen only on 1 April, and this is in August. From reading a bunch of blog posts and wiki articles I get the impression that Zor might be some sort of metafictional entity though, so there is some similarity there.

 

[Vaermina]

And that's different compared to the various divine entities Paul has encountered in what way.

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The divine entities Paul has encountered so far are all powered by dream/magic.

In the Forgotten Realms Divine Power is distinctly different from magic.

And do they interfere every time something like that happens?

No, they don't.

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Actually yes, which is why the prime material plane even still exists.

 

[AverusBlack]

Maybe? But I feel like my poor wording might have confused you, from what I can tell Zor didn't do any universe trading to transform Zatanna in the comics, he just used reality warping magic.

There could be some place trading going on here but I don't think there's any strong reason to believe so, particularly given the presence of the corpse. The corpse probably isn't an illusion given that it appears real to ring scans, though for all I know these people are capable of making perfect illusions like that, I'm not familiar with the setting. And of course this entire place could be an illusion of some sort based on Oh El's memories.

You don't really need setting knowledge here. There's no plot-relevant link between those things. The chain of logic is thus:

Oh El is transported to Ashan by presently unknown means, which are presumably related to Zachary Zor's magic and maybe Boss Smiley since Oh El was talking about him -> Minotaurs in Heroes of Might and Magic V have pierced nipples -> Oh El sees a minotaur and is disgusted by the nipple piercings -> Long ago, Oh El costumed as a daemonette, which involved piercing his right nipple -> Therefore it is claimed that it is hypocritical of Oh El to be disgusted by nipple piercings.

Pretty sure the Ambush Bug things happen only on 1 April, and this is in August. From reading a bunch of blog posts and wiki articles I get the impression that Zor might be some sort of metafictional entity though, so there is some similarity there.

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Huh. Okay, lil weird, but okay.

Also it kind of makes sense? He was cosplaying a daemon, they're supposed to be fucked up. I guess it's a bit like somebody who hates makeup putting on makeup to act a part.

Apropos of nothing, I hate makeup.

 

[thebishop8]

Maybe? But I feel like my poor wording might have confused you, from what I can tell Zor didn't do any universe trading to transform Zatanna in the comics, he just used reality warping magic.

There could be some place trading going on here but I don't think there's any strong reason to believe so, particularly given the presence of the corpse. The corpse probably isn't an illusion given that it appears real to ring scans, though for all I know these people are capable of making perfect illusions like that, I'm not familiar with the setting. And of course this entire place could be an illusion of some sort based on Oh El's memories.

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I did my own reseach into Zor, and I think Chaoswind talking about Paul turning into Grundy has something to do with Zor turning into Grundy in the comics.

Zor was apparently part of a group called the Time Tailors who maintain the fabric of the universe, but he rebelled and created the Sheeda. After Zatanna beat him, they captured him and altered reality so that he became Cyrus Gold. I guess in the comics this is supposed to work as an explanation that Grundy's power and repeated resurrection has something to do with his true nature as a Time Tailor, but I'm not sure.

The question I have is, has he been defeated like this in this universe yet, or is that what this episode is leading up to? I checked his other appearances, and apparently after he was trapped by his own paralysis spell, in the comics he escapes 2 issues later. Zoat could have been alluding to that when Paul said that trapping him in his own paralysis spell sounded like a bad idea.

The Time Tailors were also drawn to look like the writer of the Seven Soldiers comics, Grant Morrison, so if they show up and Zoat decides to do something with that then this episode has the potential to get pretty meta.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

Yes but the bit I'm missing is how OL and Zatanna cosplaying related to OL ending up in Heroes of Might and Magic now. It's two franchises I know almost nothing about so I look like this at the moment.

Is this another thing like the power rangers segment? Something from what Ambush Bug did to him?

Click to shrink...

Oh, that's my bad, I thought your WTF was over the nipple ring joking going on. Separate tracks to the multiversal travel going on. My referring back to the Zatanna stuff was about the joke, rather then the current location, hence the confusion. The fact that Zatanna was involved in that bit, and any lore of this Zor has with her is, I assume, complete coincidence and can be ignored.

Leaving that bit of insanity behind.

Given how Krona was dealt with at the end of the Crisis of Infinite Pauls situation with the solution of 'stuff him in a universe where his BS doesn't work' I would suggest that whomever dealt with this Zor fellow may have had a similar idea about shipping this Wizard / Time Tailor /Fallen Angel.....or what ever he really is....off the reservation in a similar manner, given the apparent powerset we're dealing with (with reality warping and 'goes toe to toe with the Spectre' being worrying levels of BS to deal with)

Might and Magic is off the DC grid, just as much as the Fallout universe would have been, and likely has different local magical powers and physical rules....OL here notes when he FEEDS on the magical cell containing him that it doesn't feel quite the same as when he's done that back home so the local powers appear to have a different....Flavor, for lack of a better term. Likely if Zor was sent here he'd have had to work his way back up from a reduced level of power, if he is still about. I think the multiverse got lucky with Krona popping up looking down the barrel of Fallout-Paul and his Psychic WMD, and I'll assume that this Zor is still up and about.

Given that there is a Local Paul, having had interactions with the local knife ears (long enough that he'd gotten a few good rants in if they recall his opinions of terminology of Kingdoms without Royals) It does put them in a tangential connection. We don't know if this version of Paul showed up in the grand pile of Pauls from the Krona Crossover thing. Some do appear to have missed out on it, Renegade and the DCAU Peter Wynn for example.

I am not in anyway experienced in the Might and Magic series of games or the universe it involves so anything further is just idle speculation on my part.