With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Korfayron · Jan 8, 2020

darlene'sdarling said:
Ha! And he wanted to go easier on her. She's in for a surprise.

I don't understand?

Handlewithcare · Jan 8, 2020

He played his hand? Really? That seems...a little weak.

Though I said myself that a full confrontation would take to long, so I probably shouldn't complain.

I wonder if some people will want to go full missionary on Earth-10.

Ironically enough, this would have been a perfect thing for the Justice Lords.

Ganurath · Jan 8, 2020

Korfayron said:
I don't understand?

That castle was Himmler's occult ritual dreamhouse, built by POWs and Jehovah's Witnesses from the local concentration camp, Niederhagen. It's now a war monument, museum, youth hostel, and fire station for the local village.

Chojin Patriarch · Jan 8, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
I step out through the bar's doorway and hold out my left hand.

"Orange Lantern."

Guy's head appears, and he looks less than amused. The German passers by around me on the other hand look decidedly amused, beginning to form a rough circle around me.

"Excuse me, a little privacy please?"

"You plannin' on tellin' us she was a Nazi?"

Perhaps it would be best if I..? Yes.

I fly directly upwards fifty metres, high enough that the crowd can't hear me but low enough not to trouble aircraft.

Would be a bit rude to discuss that sort of thing amongst a crowd of sticky-beak bystanders.

"No. I felt that it would be prejudicial-"

He bows his head slightly "Ahh."

"-to her rehabilitation if everyone around her was reacting to that facet of her character."

Did he honestly think about the likelihood of success at any point in this?

"Rehab."

"Well, yes. What did you think I was going to do with her? She couldn't very well miss that we were a somewhat more diverse society than she was used to."

"Coulda kept her in Supe's Fortress.

But that place is boring as hell, and a reminder that Supes isn't sharing any tech.

"For an indefinite period of time?"

"For a day or two, 'till we work somethin' else out."

"I've got her sitting and talking peacefully with two gay women in a gay bar."

Progress! Admittedly, I don't think she's entirely happy about it all...

"Huh?"

"Denazificiation progress I wouldn't have made if she was still in the Fortress."

"Come a long way since blowin' up the whole Citadel Empire there, Orange."

No point trying to rehabilitate the Citadellians.

"There wasn't anything to rehabilitate the Citadel too." I shake my head. "How's the research on the portal coming?"

"What you askin' me for?" He looks away from his ring for a moment. "Only thing I've done it fetch some a' Overgirl's skin cells and blood from the-"

...Why didn't you think of that, OL!

Idiot! Of course there'd be-!

"-place you picked her up. Dunno if they're actually gettin' anythin' useful off them."

And he can't get them to Sivana, because supervillain.

"Have you spoken to the Guardians?"

"'bout this? No. This is just normal Earth crap, right? Why, you think I should?"

I'm pretty sure an interdimensional transit is something they'd like to be made aware of sooner than someone's report.

"I don't know anyone else on Earth I could meaningfully ask for input. That means I'm down to asking either Dox, Kalmin-"

"Hell no."

"-or Hinon. I don't know enough about whatever that portal was to offer anything myself. Have you unlocked some sort of Bleed control construct from the archives?"

That assumes the Guardians would allow any Bleed-relevant tech to be available to Lanterns, even Honour Guard.

"I could prob'ly shut it down if it opened up again, but that's it."

"Really?"

"Yeah, it's-. Kinda not relevant."

A Hole in the universal fabric isn't relevant... Guy, you need to consider your priorities...

"So what, you just called me to complain about me not taking the time out to tell you that Earth Ten is where Kal-El landed in Nazi Germany and the Nazis won the War with Kryptonian technology?"

"Oh. That how it happened?"

More or less. I'm sure Angelika summarized.

"I haven't asked for a moment by moment account, but that's what she told me."

"All it woulda taken for the Nazis to win would be Supe's pa gettin' the landin' zone wrong."

"And not putting any security on the ship's database. Them just getting to bring up Overman would have been bad but hardly catastrophic."

Especially since without Kryptonian tech they'd start losing the war. A super-powered toddler wouldn't help.

He smiles. "Reckon Al could taken him, do yah?"

Difficult to say. Alan would have had the edge in experience, but most of his early career involved him fighting mundane criminals rather than high-powered superpeople. If the Nazis had been prepared to take people off front line duties in order to train him…

And Kryptonian strength could make up for a lot of things. Assuming Alan lasted long enough to face Overman.

"Not sure. Alan died on their Earth, but if other things were a little different…"

"An' what happened to their me?"

"Unless you were conceived before nineteen thirty eight then I doubt that you were ever born."

And I don't think Guy looks that old.

"Yeah? How 'bout you?"

"I haven't asked, but she didn't appear to recognise me. And since I come from a parallel universe anyway, there probably aren't versions of me in other parallels."

I mean, why would there be? We couldn't all come from Earth Prime, and even if there were multiple similar parallels the chance of multiple versions of me being transferred at the same time must be astronomically small. There wasn't a native version of me, after all.

Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing... Dammit, why such a limited selection of smileys...

"Ah, hey, Bats wants ta know if she's got someplace to stay tonight."

"We haven't really got that far. I can book her into a hotel if the someone hasn't cracked the portal by then."

I suspect Batman would not be happy about that...

"You okay ta keep lookin' aftah her?"

"Yes, though I'm not entirely sure that she'll be okay with me continuing to be her escort. She's not exactly happy about having to confront how non-Nazi our Earth is."

Admittedly, she's been impressively stable about it, besides all the [Screaming Internally]...

"Sucks t' be her. Hey, they got any Lanterns ovah there?"

"Some Nazi got Alan's ring after they killed him. Otherwise, their Earth doesn't have any Lanterns."

And the local Sector Lanterns are operating hands-off for some reason...

"Think we could take 'em?"

"I'm not sure why picking a fight with a planet of National Socialists would be a sensible thing to do. If you're talking about having the League fight the New Statesmen-"

Yeah, they are not exactly up to invading the conquered planet. Besides, Guy's Ring might have something to say about the 'internal politics' restriction.

"That what they call themselves?"

"-then I'd bet on you… You do have kryptonite on you, right?"

"Seems like a crutch."

Combat Pragmatism is not just for Batman, Guy. You take any advantage you can.

"Their Overman has an extra fifty years' experience and is used to killing. In a fight he'd probably beat ours."

"Hn. I'll tell Supes you said-

There's a blast of displaced air as Overgirl appears next to me.

Ah, I see Angelika's finished talking. Hopefully she hasn't been backsliding.

"-that."

"As you will. Signing off."

My ring fades as I lower my left hand.

"Angelika, I think I've been pushing you harder than-."

Wow, he's actually apologizing for harping on this? Angelika's not the only one making progress.

"I have not enjoyed this, but it has not exactly been a re-education centre."

"True, but I've… Pretty much played my hand. How about you pick somewhere, and we go there?"

What's first stop, Birthplace of Hitler? The Reischstag dome? Site of The Berlin Wall?

She nod thoughtfully.

"I think that I would like to see my home. Take me to Wewelsburg Castle."

Himmler's creepy Nazi Magic castle? Well, I'm sure nothing can go wrong!

Well, I was wrong about the call. Still expecting Overman and company to turn up somehow. Because the League is not really appearing to be doing anything about this. On the other hand, that's because OL's focus POV...

Corrections:

"Coulda kept her in Supe's Fortress.

Missing End Quote.

...rehabilitate the Citadel too."

...rehabilitate the Citadel to."

...I've done it fetch some...

...I've done is fetch some...

Stsword · Jan 8, 2020

That castle showed up in Ring of Evil.

Nazis made a deal with demons to win the war, which the demons fulfilled by making a green power ring.

Which couldn't affect iron, iron being an antimagical metal in DC, but now that I'm thinking about it is a rather inconvenient weakness for a super trying to win WW2.

So somewhere in the DC mutliverse there could be an alt.Paul with a ring that bitches at him in German whenever he does something un-Nazi like.

ForeverShogo · Jan 8, 2020

Other than it obviously not being her home, or an SS training facility, not really sure what visiting the castle would accomplish. It's not like she doesn't know the Holocaust happened.

And I'll also point out that a Paul 10 wouldn't automatically mean social upheaval for Earth 10. I'd even go so far as to say his presence would be unlikely to actually change anything.

A hypothetical Paul 10 would have shown up like any of the others. With just a ring. No lantern to go with it. Don't know what color it would be. Would only have the one charge. Wouldn't have any of the time the Paragon needed to master his ring.

Bare minimum? It'd go at least as poorly as things went for Blue Paul. And if he didn't get himself killed, maybe they let him start a new life as just another person living in their utopia.

Zig · Jan 8, 2020

Stsword said:
That castle showed up in Ring of Evil.

Nazis made a deal with demons to win the war, which the demons fulfilled by making a green power ring.

Which couldn't affect iron, iron being an antimagical metal in DC, but now that I'm thinking about it is a rather inconvenient weakness for a super trying to win WW2.

So somewhere in the DC mutliverse there could be an alt.Paul with a ring that bitches at him in German whenever he does something un-Nazi like.

In the Mark 1 Comics universe?

Mr Zoat · Jan 8, 2020

Tbryan said:
What about Blue Paul?

Rewritten.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Corrections:
Missing End Quote.
...rehabilitate the Citadel to."
...I've done is fetch some...

Thank you, corrected.

Zig said:
In the Mark 1 Comics universe?

Is... That a joke?

Vaermina · Jan 8, 2020

Jiro said:
Gold Kryptonite existed in the Silver Age.

But it doesn't exist in Earth-10.

Ardy · Jan 8, 2020

Vaermina said:
But it doesn't exist in Earth-10.

Based on your extensive research of earth-10z through.... what, exactly?

Darko · Jan 8, 2020

Even if Overgirl is not rehabilitated i am sure that many people enjoyed watching a nazi have such a crisis.
I am reminded of a quote by YJ abridged Jeffrey Burr
Some people are like slinkys, they don't serve any purpose, but you can't help but smile when you see one falling down the stairs.

Paul may not be in every universe, but he sure seems to be very prolific.
We have The Boys, JL animated, Young Justice, Teen Titans, Crime Syndicate etc.

Zoat are you planning on doing a version of the SI that ended up in the DC abridged universe, or at least a April Fools episode where the SI goes there?
It would be hilarious if we could see the renegade dealing with Supes trying to have him deported, as well as trying to deal with the clusterfuck that was Supes and Lexs presidential campaign.
Essentially trying to decide if you want to take a bath in cyanide or sniff mustard gas.
The renegade being called a dark butterfly from the pits by Desaad, or some other equally ridiculous name, resisting the urge to kill Savage when he says he was there for everything, trying to understand what the fuck Brain is saying, dealing with Deathstroke, ribbing Orm for being a bitch tit etc.
The paragon trying to tell Batman how if something is capable of thought then it counts as "people", him helping Ollie with his drinking problem, restoring Floyd Lawtons faith in black people, help Tim get his AI girlfriend, helping Supes become less of a dick, evacuating people to Tamaran if either Supes or Lex are elected, helping Orm become less of a bitch tit,dealing with his attraction to Nightwing and his perfectly sculpted ass and godlike glutes etc.
Both the renegade and paragon dealing with Alfred

And finally putting on the Helmet of Fate to briefly get future visions, or alternate universe visions, as well as finding out that Zatarra is in full control, because Nabu is on vacation, but is only pretending to be controlled by Nabu because he doesn't want to raise his daughter.

Jormuungaand · Jan 8, 2020

Whenever Possible said:
I'm trying to think of a way that only Greaters can breed with Greaters and only Lessers can breed with Lessers, but Greaters and Lessers can both have Greater and Lesser children. I know it's genetically possible to set up that kind of system one way (i.e. Greaters can have Greater and Lesser children, but Lessers can only have Lesser Children) but not sure off the top of my head if it can work both ways, though I'd guess that it is possible.

Both types carry the genes needed to produce all types of children but the physical tab A and slot B pairings or their equivalents only match up Greater to Greater and Lesser to Lesser?

Grek · Jan 8, 2020

Whenever Possible said:
I'm trying to think of a way that only Greaters can breed with Greaters and only Lessers can breed with Lessers, but Greaters and Lessers can both have Greater and Lesser children. I know it's genetically possible to set up that kind of system one way (i.e. Greaters can have Greater and Lesser children, but Lessers can only have Lesser Children) but not sure off the top of my head if it can work both ways, though I'd guess that it is possible.

Suppose that we have three sex chromosomes (X, Y, and Z) and that individuals can be monokaryotic (they only have one of the sex chromosomes), homozygously dikaryotic (they have two of the same sex chromosomes) or heterozygously dikaryotic (they have two different sex chromosomes). This translates to our Neutrals, our Lessers and our Greaters respectively - the more different kinds of chromosome a zygote has, the larger and more developed the resulting offspring. Neutrals only have one chromosome, so they can't carry out meiosis, don't produce any gametes and are entirely sterile. Greaters exhibit hybrid vigor compared to Lessers, and as a result their gametes are incompatibly sized - a Lesser gametes are a quarter of the size of a Greater's gametes, so they aren't compatible. Unfertilized gametes (of either type) mature into Neutrals via haplodiplody. (I say gametes instead of sperm/egg since they'd likely have isogametes, ie. both parents produce the same kind of sex cell.)

Note that this suggests that two Greaters of the same sex have a 50%/50% chance of Lesser/Greater; two Greaters of different sex have a 25%/75%; two Lessers of the same sex always produce a Lesser and two Lessers of the opposite sex have a 50%/50% chance.

Bigreader · Jan 8, 2020

I feel like Paul may be having some memory issues did he not remember that issue where he met the bug and saw a bunch of parallels of him and different versions of the DC Universe or was that the other guy? Is he having memory problems? Also how is he not crapping his pants at this point I mean portals opening up red skies and lightning I mean at this point with the parallel universe stuff would sound like the setup for crisis on infinite Earths and considering how that ended I would think Paul would be very very worried about where this is heading.

Sordid Snake · Jan 8, 2020

Ganurath said:
That castle was Himmler's occult ritual dreamhouse, built by POWs and Jehovah's Witnesses from the local concentration camp, Niederhagen. It's now a war monument, museum, youth hostel, and fire station for the local village.

The castle itself is wasn't built by the nazis, it was preexisting and Himmler had it renovated and rebuilt by slave labour. He wanted to make it the literal center of a huge SS headquarters/school/university.

Added in edit:
And speaking of the SS, is Overgirls 'S' insignia a lightining rune? I think that is a banned symbol in Germany, so the local police might be on the way. Along with probable "That Cosplay is in very bad taste and disrespectful to Superman!"-reactions.

DAT_NOOB · Jan 8, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
"And not putting any security on the ship's database. Them just getting to bring up Overman would have been bad but hardly catastrophic."

He smiles. "Reckon Al could taken him, do yah?"

Difficult to say. Alan would have had the edge in experience, but most of his early career involved him fighting mundane criminals rather than high-powered superpeople. If the Nazis had been prepared to take people off front line duties in order to train him…

Look I love Alan as much as the next guy but in a fight against overman, Alan dies. maybe Doctor Fate or Captain Cornwall (the WWII one) could take him but Lantern Scott loses hard.

Pinklestia · Jan 8, 2020

Flux Casey said:
He means native to those parallels, though I agree that bit could have been clearer. And make you wonder why he never considered whether there was another displaced Paul as well.

Because that means there is either several Earth Primes or some nutjob just duplicated Paul a lot.

Cat Paul was green, right? Or was that just an Omake?

Mr Zoat · Jan 8, 2020

Darko said:
Zoat are you planning on doing a version of the SI that ended up in the DC abridged universe, or at least a April Fools episode where the SI goes there?

It would be hilarious if we could see the renegade dealing with Supes trying to have him deported, as well as trying to deal with the clusterfuck that was Supes and Lexs presidential campaign.

Haven't watched it.

Pinklestia said:
Cat Paul was green, right? Or was that just an Omake?

No version of me was inserted into Just'a Lotta Animals.

Darko · Jan 8, 2020

I recommend you watch DC abridged.
You would be impressed how they managed to combine the various animated universes together.

Sun Dog · Jan 8, 2020

Korfayron said:
I don't understand?

The headquarters of the New Statesmen, presumably. But in our Earth and most likely 16, it's a museum to the horrors and atrocities of the Nazi regime, along with some of the just plain weird stuff they believed in. So that should be fun for Overgirl.

Himmler used the castle to store artifacts of importance, like the Nazis alleged Spear of Destiny, as well as to train the SS in his brand of bizarre neo-paganism, and did various rituals. We still don't know tons of what went on in there, because the Nazis burned out the interior before it could fall into Allied hands. So it comes up a lot in fiction where the Nazis win or had a supernatural edge. Also, a work camp of 4,000 was nearby to see to the castle's ongoing refurbishment, and half of the prisoners died, and its a sad commentary where that's an afterthought, but y'know, Nazis. The deaths of just a few thousand innocents kind of is a footnote.

Lazurman · Jan 8, 2020

Vaermina said:
But it doesn't exist in Earth-10.

Was that ever confirmed? Or can we safely say it doesn't not exist?

Maxx Crowley · Jan 8, 2020

⸺⸺⸺ said:
You will simply be promptly killed by some shizotech-open-carrying vigilante. You are far from the only person who can play the murder game.

With a power ring in a universe not following Zoat's rules? Not hardly.

⸺⸺⸺ said:
Possibly during your attempt to kill millions of Earth-16's wahhabi and salafi people. Or the Earth-10. I mean, there are at the minimum hundreds of millions people out there who think that gays/jews/whatever should be suppressed, humiliated, imprisoned, beaten or killed. And they would not be persuaded by something so little as overthrowing a government. And you would not be capable of centuries worth of work required to change this, as trigger-happy as you are. And they would grow only more numerous and stubborn in your face. It would be just a never-ending massacre you cannot win

I don't even know who those people are, but again, really under estimating the power ring.

By the by, ask the Citadel and the Psiyons about that whole "can't win" thing.

How fast do these comic people breed and carry to term?

Now I'm just picturing people humping in seas of fire, and launching babies at my red light shields.

They know my kryptonite! Vaginas!

Coda · Jan 8, 2020

WhiteNoise said:
Then, yeah, they're not the same species. Reproductive isolation -- no gene flow between populations -- is what we mean by separate species.

That's an old definition that's fallen out of favor because it's proven to not be sufficiently robust. Fertile hybrids most certainly exist, especially if you go outside of the animal kingdom. (Indeed, most domesticated crops are fertile polyploid hybrids.) And on the flip side there are ring species where two populations aren't able to directly interbreed with each other but can both interbreed with a third population.

One possible mechanism that hadn't been brought up is that it might just be the case that some allele that differs between the Greater and Lesser genome is fine in the heterozygous case, the homozygous case is lethal to the embryo.

Mr Zoat said:
passers by

"passersby" (or if that's weird to you I think "passers-by" is acceptable in British English; it's considered archaic in American English)

Mr Zoat said:
"Hn. I'll tell Supes you said-

Missing closing quote.

moralrelativity said:
And your second sentence is irrelevant, a total non-sequitur.

No it isn't. It's drawing a parallel that not encountering a parallel of himself on Earth 16 is evidence (though not proof) of the thing he's pondering over.

CTrees · Jan 8, 2020

Pinklestia said:
Because that means there is either several Earth Primes or some nutjob just duplicated Paul a lot.

Well, they meant to hit "3" for number of copies (OL, Gravy, Baul), but the touch screen on the Cosmic Photocopier is finicky, so they accidentally entered "333" instead. Hey, if there's a Cosmic Treadmill, why not a Cosmic Photocopier?

ForeverShogo · Jan 8, 2020

The weird stuff was mostly Himmler and some of his cronies. A lot of Nazis, including Hitler, thought Himmler's obsession with neo-paganism was goofy as fuck.

Then again, that's real life. Here, we're talking about the Nazis of the DC multiverse. A multiverse where a lot of that really goofy shit was real. Where they had the actual Spear of Destiny, and used it for occult rituals that would brainwash Allied superheroes if they tried stomping around in Europe.

Darko · Jan 8, 2020

The nazis may have used actual magic on earth 16, but i am pretty sure that aside from Captain Nazi and the spear most of the things they did would be considered weird and stupid by actual magicians.

Mr Zoat · Jan 8, 2020

Coda said:
"passersby" (or if that's weird to you I think "passers-by" is acceptable in British English; it's considered archaic in American English)

Sold!

Missing closing quote.

Thank you, corrected.

Darko said:
The nazis may have used actual magic on earth 16, but i am pretty sure that aside from Captain Nazi and the spear most of the things they did would be considered weird and stupid by actual magicians.

It's more that they ended up doing things that weren't stupid and weird, if only by process of elimination.

WaleXdraK · Jan 8, 2020

TotalAbsolutism said:
Likely because if he was there and had a Ring of any kind, that world would be facing some serious societal upheaval that would be worth commenting on and she would have noticed him on sight.

While Paul was already good at using his ring while he just started, he was far from being at the same level then he is now, if he tried to rush thing while try to fight a whole Planet of Nazi and wasn't careful enough he would have died pretty easily against a justice league with no problem with killing and an army using bullshit kryptonian tech, we know the Pauls got the same knowledge (of the basic DC verse) and Orange Lantern doesn't seem to know anything about the Nazi-Dc verse so a Paul dropped would have minimal information (i doubt Neo-Kryptonian tech is easily hacked without setting up alarm or revealing his locations) and wouldn't know thing like who to trust and so on.

TotalAbsolutism · Jan 8, 2020

WaleXdraK said:
While Paul was already good at using his ring while he just started, he was far from being at the same level then he is now, if he tried to rush thing while try to fight a whole Planet of Nazi and wasn't careful enough he would have died pretty easily against a justice league with no problem with killing and an army using bullshit kryptonian tech.

I don't think he'd have tried to fight them; I think he would have gone to one of the other remaining nations and started a competing uplift program designed to show that the Nazi methodology isn't necessary for success. Thus having him labelled as a major subversive person by the local regime.

WaleXdraK · Jan 8, 2020

TotalAbsolutism said:
I don't think he'd have tried to fight them; I think he would have gone to one of the other remaining nations and started a competing uplift program designed to show that the Nazi methodology isn't necessary for success. Thus having him labelled as a major subversive person by the local regime.

From what i know about Earth-10 (not that much, there isn't load of information about Earth-10) even if Germania isn't officially controlling the planet, they still are officiously and i don't think any country would want to piss them off, even in another country Paul wouldn't be safe.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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