With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[thebishop8]

Ring, message to Fabiana Holguin. Message: Hugo Danner is alive and has a superhuman army. Interested in interviews?

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That's an...interesting way to put it. Especially before Hugo committed to helping the tribes if negotiations failed.

 

[Slayer Anderson]

I approach, and what they want… Appears to be virtually all of the country, save for the most heavily populated coastal cities. A lot of it hasn't been densely forested for over a century. This isn't keeping the jungle as it is, this is full-on reforesting on a scale that no advanced nation has ever performed.

And it's not just Brazil that's on the chopping block. There isn't going to be all that much left of Colombia, Ecuador, Bolivia or Peru, and Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana will cease to exist.

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Man, I'm glad this turned out to be a simple eco-terrorist attack that's going to serve as a good training mission and not anything complicated.

 

[Darko]

Ah a shitstorm in the making.

This will end... poorly.

 

[Istaran]

Not sure if anyone would go for it (in fic, nor in such a reality) but oddly the SI being who/what he is, he actually could bribe the Brazilians and others with enough to make it worthwhile to them. And I'm not limiting it to cash (equivalents). Like... here, I'll build you an offworld colony to live on.

But even though he could make an offer better than what they give up in any purely objective metric they care to specify, it won't be home and humans can be stubborn about such things.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Don't worry guys, I once convinced a whole sector of thr galaxy full of big spiders, pirates and slavers to reach a peace and trade agreement for thr first time in... Like ever?, You all just need a big orange juice on the negotiating table.

Orange Lantern negotation 2: orange bogaloo

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Yeah, but who's he going to fist this time? Hugo?

I too hope they go to war, and win. I imagine that Euanthe will want in as well.

 

[jonasquinn]

I'm a little surprised that OL didn't point out that what they're asking for is absurd and that they need to be at least willing to be more realistic

Though it could be that he wants to build some trust first before he starts trying to get them to accept a more reasonable compromise

 

[ForeverShogo]

Away with your anarcho-primitivism.

These crazies need to be crushed. Just let Overgirl off her leash and be done with it.

 

[RichardWhereat]

I'm a little surprised that OL didn't point out that what they're asking for is absurd and that they need to be at least willing to be more realistic

Though it could be that he wants to build some trust first before he starts trying to get them to accept a more reasonable compromise

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First round in negotiations are always unrealistic. Also, they have enough of a danner enhanced army to be able to win, so it's not unrealistic.

 

[Vaermina]

First round in negotiations are always unrealistic. Also, they have enough of a danner enhanced army to be able to win, so it's not unrealistic.

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Brazil has chemical weapons, so they really don't have enough of an enhanced army to be able to win.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Away with your anarcho-primitivism.

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They never said they were opposed to technology, or that they were anarchists. Hell, they're a tribe, which has leaders. They just want their rainforest back, and likely so does Gaia, who is a real entity here.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Aaaand things go downhill, fast.

I mean, I get that they're angry but that is just absurd. How many milion people live there? What do they expect will happen? Do they have a hidden ally somewhere tha makes them overconfident because even patrolling that area with a few hundred people is nonsense.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Brazil has chemical weapons, so they really don't have enough of an enhanced army to be able to win.

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Danner Enhanciles may just choose to take the fight directly to the leaders, killing them before such weapons are used.

They're powerful, OL seemed to like their chances earlier on.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

18th March
15:23 GMT -3

Well sugar.

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You said it, old boy.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length.

The old-looking people drop to their knees, followed by Dawn Warrior and the.. people I assume are the older enhanciles. The younger children stop what they're doing and look around in confusion, but the younger adults realise who this man is a moment later and join their elders-

"No, no, don't-"

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And he wants no part of their worship. I doubt he believes he deserves even their respect given the fate of his followers...

-in kneeling.

"-do that, please. I don't deserve it." Mr Danner kneels down next to the Elder who went to speak with him. "Cauã, your sons died because of me. I.. watched them-."

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Ah, one of the fathers of the boys he empowered... That's got to sting.

"My sons died for our people. The natives of the Amazon have fought for centuries against those who occupy our lands. Why should I be angry with you for being more successful than anyone before you?"

Mr Danner can't meet his eyes, tears trickling down his cheeks.

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Methinks this is something Hugo needs, even if he doesn't want it...

"No one fought beside you who was not willing to die."

"They shouldn't have had to! I led the Accala to war because I didn't think anything could stop us! I wanted-. I wanted everything to be over by.. Christmas."

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And now you're remembering the last time you heard that line, aren't you Hugo?

"You always told us that you were not a god. The fact that you failed to foresee what none of us foresaw will not make me blame you. But see!" He rises to his feet and puts his right hand on Mr Danner's shoulder, pushing him to look at the tribespeople surrounding them. "We are stronger now than ever! There is no one here who is not immune to the diseases which killed their great uncles and aunts!"

Mr Danner looks around, and there's no excitement or hope in his face. I think.. maybe I should step in now.

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He's still seeing how many ways they could die, isn't he? He's been able to look at all the weapons mankind has developed since he went native, and they should scare him something fierce.

"Elder Cauã, I am Orange Lantern." Cauã turns to look at me, his expression guarded. "I'd like to avoid open conflict between your people and the Brazilian government. Do you have a list of demands I could pass onto them, so that we could try negotiating first?"

"Lantern?"

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Oh, dear. Not the best association. Remember the last Lantern they saw?

I hold out my left hand and call my personal lantern out of subspace.

"Yes."

"Like the Green Lantern?"

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OL, seriously, you just flubbed that diplomacy check hard. Natural 1. You rolled so bad you got a negative score.

"Same.. sort of idea, yes."

His eyes narrow. "Why would we negotiate with you?"

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See! They have no reason to like any kind of Lantern. Whatever the colour. If Alan showed up, he would be spat at! They don't like you.

"Because the Brazilian government will probably listen to me, which gives you a chance to resolve things without anyone dying."

"We are not afraid to die for our people, for our lands."

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And I'm sure the Brazilians are happy to oblige. Especially if you tick them off.

"And I can see that. But while you have a lot of power here, it isn't enough to fight the entire world. The Brazilian government will attempt to convince other nations that you are a threat to them as well, and so get their support for fighting you. The best way to prevent them being successful in doing that it to attempt to negotiate before you start fighting, and to be very clear with everyone exactly what you are fighting for."

Ring, message to Fabiana Holguin. Message: Hugo Danner is alive and has a superhuman army. Interested in interviews?

Click to shrink...

I seriously think you could have phrased that better. Who's Fabiana Holguin anyway? Brazilian government or a news reporter?

Message sent.

"Hm." He looks over to the other Elders as the tribe gets back to its collective feet. "Man-God?"

"I don't want any more of our people to die. We should try talking to them first. And if that doesn't work… I'll start the fighting personally."

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Thank you! A voice of reason! He knows exactly what they could do to the tribes, he should want no part of that fight... Though that last part suggests he's willing to take the heat on his own head again.

Elder Cauã smiles.

"Thank you, Man-God." The other two Elders nod. "Very well, then. Lantern, come with us. We will show you our map room."

He walks back to the other Elders, only a small nudge being needed to make Mr Danner join them. For a moment I consider flying after them, but… I don't think that sort of display of power would help. Particularly if all the people of his generation bear as much of a grudge against Alan as he does.

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You saw that Red, right? I don't think Cauã is alone in those feelings...

I go after them and my team forms up around me, the crowd spreading out to let us pass. I shift so that Beryl is next to me, then give her a dubious look.

"Any special reason you chose to share that little bit of information now?"

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Yes, please do explain your reasoning, Tattletale?

She gives me a dubious look back. "You didn't know?"

"It sounded a little fishy, but I never investigated it in any detail."

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And now you're regretting it, OL. Let this be a lesson, and start looking into other people's backgrounds. Like John Quinn.

"Oh."

"What?"

She looks a little guilty. "I thought you were covering for him. Since he was working for Luthor."

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He's not that buddy-buddy with Lex. That's the Renegade's thing.

"No, I didn't think that his identity was so crucially important that I needed to pry into it. So why did you announce it?"

"It was being pretty clear that he didn't want there to be a fight. I thought they'd be more likely to listen to Hugo Danner than Arnold Munro."

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Not the best reason, but the logic is understandable. And you all saw their reaction to the truth...

I nod. "Quite possibly. And from the colours I was seeing, if might be better for him as well. But if there is any problem arising from the fact that the man who led the last attack is publically leading this one-."

"I'll be-" She nods. "-taking the lead."

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Beryl preparing to fall on the figurative sword, eh? Batman will not be happy with any of this...

"Glad we're on the same wavelength."

We arrive at a collection of wooden buildings, and the Elders enter a long hut. Some tribes build their houses in the trees, but looking around it appears that the Accala prefer building on the ground. That might be tradition, or it might be an adaptation to excitable young enhanciles wanted to skip the whole 'climbing' thing and just jump back home and the damage that results from lacking a basic understanding of physics. No concrete or metal and not a lot of stone. The could mine stone easily enough, but I suppose this isn't the area for it.

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And young enhanciles rough-housing might get a bit hard on things like walls. Though they probably learn their lesson after the first couple of collapsed huts and the resulting spankings...

I take a moment to wave a rune stone around, but this part of the world doesn't have much of a reputation for sophisticated magic use and Hugo Danner being here didn't encourage them in that direction. I suppose that bringing in a Native American-friendly shaman or two might help provoke some development of improved arcane techniques…

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Oh, boy, muscle-wizards. "I cast FIST!"

I enter the room, which appears to be their planning area. Several maps of varying levels of detail are laid out on a large central table, and there's another smaller table with seats around it set up a short distance away. Hugo's already studying the whole-country map while Elder Cauã looks at me and gestures to it.

"Here, Orange Lantern, is what we want."

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At least this is something OL is good at dealing with... What they want, and how to reconcile it with what they can get...

I approach, and what they want… Appears to be virtually all of the country, save for the most heavily populated coastal cities. A lot of it hasn't been densely forested for over a century. This isn't keeping the jungle as it is, this is full-on reforesting on a scale that no advanced nation has ever performed.

And it's not just Brazil that's on the chopping block. There isn't going to be all that much left of Colombia, Ecuador, Bolivia or Peru, and Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana will cease to exist.

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Yeah, I don't see any government agreeing to that. Up until they stomp in the door of the assembly building...

"That's a hard sell. What are you planning on doing with the people living there?"

"They can keep living there. But there will be no more of these cattle farms. No more of their industry. We will tear it all down and restore our jungle. If they cannot live with that then they can leave."

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Oh, that'll go down well with the cartels... 'Rancher's Association'...

I look around. The other Elders nod, and Dawn Warrior doesn't exactly seem perturbed by the announcement. Hugo on the other hand has his satellite phone out and is.. trying to call up demographic data on the regions they're planning on clearing. Yeah, that's… It might be possible for the areas they're talking about to continue feeding themselves, but there aren't going to be any exports.. or imports. No motor vehicles, because they won't be any petrol coming in. Tribes like the Accala don't use things like that so don't care, but even some of the more civilised tribes…

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Might be a chance to get some clean energy tech involved, then. No motor vehicles, as noted, because superhuman strength. But I'm sure they wouldn't mind things like lighting, medical tech, cooking tools, that sort of thing...

I.. suppose a strong opening position is generally considered to be the way to go in negotiations.

"I will relay this to the Brazilian government and return with their response. Good day."

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And once the shouting stops, I'm sure the answer will be "No way in hell!"

I can just see Batman pinching his nose already. "All it was meant to be was a simple training mission... Not triggering a conflict between superhuman tribesmen and South American governments!" Bat-dad's patience will be sorely tested by OL's knack for overcomplicating matters...

Correction:

...seeing, if might be better...

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...seeing, it might be better...

 

[jonasquinn]

Danner Enhanciles may just choose to take the fight directly to the leaders, killing them before such weapons are used.

They're powerful, OL seemed to like their chances earlier on.

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Yeah, when he thought they just wanted the rainforest and maybe some other land not most of the fucking continent

First round in negotiations are always unrealistic. Also, they have enough of a danner enhanced army to be able to win, so it's not unrealistic.

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The problem there is as soon as they involve other countries it ceases to be an internal issue and the League has to get involved and I don't think they'd be able to handle the combined armies of all their enemies as well as the League

 

[Mr Zoat]

Correction: ...seeing, it might be better...

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Marix Reaver]

Seriously? What they are asking for is so stupidly ridiculous that it makes me laugh incredulously. And they really think those governments will give into their threats?!? At least one of those governments probably has super soldier programs, and even if none do, they can hire super powered mercenaries and villains to fight for them if they are backed into a corner.

Some super villains probably built labs and secret bases in these forests and wouldn't give them up without a fight. Besides, as said before, they would probably want these natives as test subjects.

Besides, what will these natives even do with this much land? They don't have enough people to fully occupation it, even if they spread out.

In this situation, I really hope these native people lose, they ask for far too much.

 

[Massgamer]

I honestly want the tribes to be successful and sure they can get support from Gaia herself on wanting to restore the Amazon Rain forest.

Mr Zoat what position would League be in if the tribes did go to war to reclaim forests? Would UN ask them to intervene or something?

 

[jonasquinn]

I honestly want the tribes to be successful and sure they can get support from Gaia herself on wanting to restore the Amazon Rain forest.

Mr Zoat what position would League be in if the tribes did go to war to reclaim forests? Would UN ask them to intervene or something?

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I imagine they would given that I'm pretty sure all of those countries are members of the UN, the tribes are clearly the aggressors and it sends a bad image if they just let a cabal of superpowered people overthrow and annex multiple countries

 

[DAT_NOOB]

This... this is going to end pretty poorly. No government would take demands like that well, let alone a threat to seven of them. This is going to get messy very quickly. Not to mention the political allies that these countries have along with the political interests other countries have within them.

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The hell with those demands as soon as the open war is declared I imagine poison gas will wipe out the native population

Danner Enhanciles may just choose to take the fight directly to the leaders, killing them before such weapons are used.

They're powerful, OL seemed to like their chances earlier on.

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Yh they're powerful enough to fight the conventional army and hold the rainforest, if it was just the forest then the Brazilian government might give it up but the whole continent? the first round of negotiations will be with chemical weapons.

 

[Massgamer]

I just realized that Luthor had to expect this to happen at some point. I totally expect that once their demands are public he will personally support the tribes and their desire to take back homeland and wanting to restore Amazon, would be tons of PR for him.

 

[TheEyes]

Huh.

I.... Kinda want them to win just because you almost never see that. Grand changes on that scale always seem limited to elseworlds or stories that take place in the future.

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Yeah, not likely. The Brazillian, Columbian, Ecuadoran, etc governments will tell their armies to mobilize, and they'll start napalming and gassing the rainforest. Western nations will wring their hands and whine, and the rest of the BRIC countries will send troops to assist in return for mining rights.

Absent the Bog God intervening and exterminating everyone (or OL mind-controlling people) we're looking at the start of one of the greatest ecological disasters in history.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Fine. Regular primitivism. But they're talking about dismantling farms and de-industrializing. Returning everything to jungle. That seems pretty anti-tech to me.

Like, it's pretty clear they want over 50% of South America to return to a purely hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I honestly want the tribes to be successful and sure they can get support from Gaia herself on wanting to restore the Amazon Rain forest.

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They don't actually worship Gaia.

Mr Zoat what position would League be in if the tribes did go to war to reclaim forests? Would UN ask them to intervene or something?

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The League wouldn't want to get involved. Would they if it came to it? Maybe?

I can't remember what it's called, but there's phrase which means something along the line of 'even if someone has committed an offence against you, if you want your complaint to be taken seriously then you better not have done anything wrong yourself'.

 

[jonasquinn]

They don't actually worship Gaia.

The League wouldn't want to get involved. Would they if it came to it? Maybe?

I can't remember what it's called, but there's phrase which means something along the line of 'even if someone has committed an offence against you, if you want your complaint to be taken seriously then you better not have done anything wrong yourself'.

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I imagine the League would have to get involved since all the involved countries are UN members and if the tribes won they'd be forcing millions of people out of their homes and would probably cause an unprecedented financial and refugee crisis as several countries simply stop existing for all intents and purposes

I just realized that Luthor had to expect this to happen at some point. I totally expect that once their demands are public he will personally support the tribes and their desire to take back homeland and wanting to restore Amazon, would be tons of PR for him.

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Eh, we know he knew the tribes existed but there's no way of knowing if he actually knew what their plan was

Also, given that they'd be painted as a bunch of super powered terrorists declaring war on several countries I doubt Lex would back them up, he'd be more likely to give the Brazilians super weapons to test if they work on Danner Enhanciles

 

[ArKFallen]

The moment the demands included 3+ separate countries' land their chances of negotiation became fucked. After the first attack on another country they will be classified as international terrorists and the the UN's peace-keeping force will be pressured to step in.

 

[Yog]

The big question is - what else do they have? They have an army of Danner enhanciles. But those failed once before. And were refined since (it wouldn't surprise me if their version is better than Lex's). They might also have other assets not disclosed yet. Like... Snowflame should be somewhere around this area, shouldn't he? And even Trigon acknowledges(if not fears) the power of Coca (and yes, I know this is a fan comic, it's still fun).

Point is - assuming they are not stupid, the Dawn Warrior is at least somewhat aware of the state of the world, and they remember Green Lantern, they likely have at least several trump cards they are yet to reveal. We might be seeing Great Ghost Dance yet.

 

[Cuchulin]

Hopefully these Tribes Folk understand that they are NEGOTIATING rather than simply demanding things. Also it'd be nice if the government understands that as well.

 

[Ct613hulu]

This latest chapter is reminding me of the Shadowrun Sixth World setting's country of Amazonia.

If the Dawn Warriors reach out to other marginalized groups than they could potentially acquire powerful supernatural allies and start creating a similar nation. I would be very interested in seeing the story progress in this direction as it seems like it could lead to a very interesting conflict between a Scientific and Magic military force.

 

[FreeGod]

I imagine the League would have to get involved since all the involved countries are UN members and if the tribes won they did be forcing millions of people out of their homes and would probably cause an unprecedented financial and refugee crisis as several countries simply stop existing for all intents and purposes

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There are wars happening all over the world that they don't get involved in.

 

[NeoDarklight]

Yeah, not likely. The Brazillian, Columbian, Ecuadoran, etc governments will tell their armies to mobilize, and they'll start napalming and gassing the rainforest. Western nations will wring their hands and whine, and the rest of the BRIC countries will send troops to assist in return for mining rights.

Absent the Bog God intervening and exterminating everyone (or OL mind-controlling people) we're looking at the start of one of the greatest ecological disasters in history.

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This segues nicely into something I'd like to point out- this would be an excellent time to plant Euanthe's seed, and have her explain exactly why going that far is a Bad Idea, Ecologically. If a plant-goddess tells you that the ecological changes you're trying to implement are stupid, then it's probably time to review your ecoterrorism plans.