With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

NightmareWarden · Feb 2, 2021

Hold on, a portion of the Leetniar ships mobilized for a raid the same day Paul and Gozzi started researching them? Their long, long range stakeout was really short then! Convenient, but not unbelievable.

Clell65619 · Feb 2, 2021

TheLunarwolf said:
Which means, which is kind of worse, He'd always left Bucky to 70 years of torture and being a murderbot instead of saving him.

Which means that all those people he murdered in civil war to help Bucky "escape" are people he chose not to save, even knowing what he'd do.

Look, There's no way Steve Rogers comes of the MCU looking like a good guy.

- I'm not sure about that. After all, when Old Cap showed up on the bench, Bucky sent Sam over to him.

- I think a whole lot more happened than we were shown. Though, Steve still made out with his own niece, the dirty pervert.

Radix · Feb 2, 2021

nick012000 said:
No, the timeline only splits in the MCU when one of the Infinity Stones is removed from the timeline. There was a scene in the movie where the Ancient One explicitly explains this to The Hulk. When Steve took the Space Stone back to the past, he re-united the timelines and caused the original timeline to be re-created, so if he decided to stay in the past afterwards, it's because he always chose to stay in the past. Similarly, he was unable to free Bucky from the control of Hydra because he had already freed Bucky from Hydra in the future, and he wasn't able to change that.

1. The point of the Ancient One's speech was that the Time Stone was important for her reality. Bruce needed it, but so did they.

2. The Ancient One is not omniscient and isn't the absolute authority on time travel.

3. Multiple times in the movie, it is remarked that you can't go to your own past and interact with it. It is one of the only rules we know. They couldn't have pulled the Time Stone out of their own past because that would mean changing it, so where did it come from? It is explicitly world that uses multiverse time travel. Branches cause new realities, you can't just fold them back in.

4. Other MCU properties continue this branch thing without stones leaving. The upcoming Loki tv show continues a branch. Agents of SHIELD also had a branch in season 7 without interacting with the stones at all.

Mr Zoat · Feb 3, 2021

9th July 2012
06:35 GMT

"Shoo."

Alas, the Leentniar fleet does not shoo.

We've always known that the Reach weren't stupid. But what I perhaps didn't twig on is the fact that the volume of space they occupy means that even if they would ideally have liked to, it simply isn't possible for them to follow a single narrow set of directives everywhere. They simply have to exercise power in a decentralised way. So while their multifaceted assimilation campaigns across virtually their entire frontier were at least similar in general appearance, the sheer number of alien species they have contact with meant that it was inevitable that they'd try something a little different at some point.

Not all parts of the Reach keep their patsies weak. Lantern Gozzi may have been on to something about them having regular contact.

Leentniar capital ships are ugly blocks of metal and ceramics armed with spatial distortion pulsers which bypass most conventional defences. Including most-

The attack force fires a volley. A couple of shots ripple through space-time towards me, while the majority flow down the local gravity wells towards the local inhabited planet.

-construct defences. We don't have that many Lanterns trained for situations like this.

I wave my hands and space snaps back into shape, a blast of x-rays and gamma rays exploding from the wrinkle I just ironed.

"Fascinating." The construct Lantern Gozzi uses looks a little like a large kiln, appearing around a pulse and shrinking, her far superior understanding of the physics involved allowing her to do a much cleaner job of shutting it down than I managed. "Inefficient, but fascinating."

"Illustres to Leentniar fleet. You have not identified the reason for your attack or stated demands. You are intruding in territory in which you are not welcome. I will ask you once more to leave. If you do not comply-"

They fire another volley. Some distance away I detect a tiny flare of gamma radiation as Lantern Gozzi shuts down another.

"-then I will use direct force-"

Again, I forcibly stabilise space to block the shots heading towards me. I'm actually… Well, in a few minutes I'll take enough radiation exposure that I'd die if it wasn't for my rings, and the Leentniar ships are showing small signs of wear on their frontal armour as they continue to head in to the system.

"'Inefficient'?"

"I generally operate under the assumption that if someone uses anything more complex than a mass driver for planetary bombardment, they are showing off their 'equipment'."

"You get that a lot in Vega?"

"Dealing with Citadelians was a frustration. Amalak is far more civilised."

"Not having any trouble?"

"Should I be?"

"You're using your ring to neutralise an attack you hadn't encountered before today."

"It's surprisingly rewarding. Coluans simply aren't adapted for combat in the way species like yours are, but I find that the intellectual challenge combined with the utility of my ring appeals to me."

"Less slogging through the mud with a busted plasma gun?"

"Airless low-gravity corridors filled with smoke, and I generally only had a coil pistol."

"I'm glad that you found a new employer. That sounds like a tremendous waste of your abilities."

"That was for Amalak."

"If you're considering a full-time career change, I'm sure that Dox would appreciate having someone around who can think at his level."

"I can't think at his level. No one other than his father can."

"I don't know about that. There's a family of mad scientists back on Earth-."

"It is not possible to properly practise science while insane."

"I'll give you one of Georgia Sivana's communication devices and you can argue the point with her."

"You mean to say that there is a member of your species who can match intellects with a clone of Vril Dox."

"Yes, in some fields at least."

"I'm… Scepti-. Oh."

"Yeah, we get that a lot. And they've stopped shooting."

"Do you intend-? Possumizer?"

"Don't try-. Huh."

"Very few people will continue shooting when their weapons are clearly having no effect."

"Yes, but-. No. I was going to say 'don't try to understand', but honestly? If you can? Please explain it to me. We'd really like to know."

"Do you intend to negotiate with them?"

"I'm going to give it one more go. Illustres to Leentniar fleet, please respond."

"You're giving them more opportunities to back down than I expected. Why not kill them and move on to the rest?"

"Because we're being recorded. And of course copies of our recordings of this conversation will make the rounds, as a comfort to our allies and a warning to anyone who might be planning on doing something stupid like becoming our enemy. Do you hear me?"

I stop transmitting.

"I can't afford to be called back to fight everyone who thinks they can stick the boot in while we're fighting the Reach. And as an organisation, N.E.M.O. can't afford to look like they can't stop that sort of attack. Word will get around."

"Leentniar Controller responding. We will quit this system."

"And?"

"Refrain from further attacks against this system."

"Inadequate. All systems in your path are L.E.G.I.O.N. affiliates. We will protect all of them."

"That will be relayed to my Masters."

"How about I do it instead. Lead the way."

The ships had been turning away, but a moment later they visibly change their direction, then-.

The ships explode!

Idkusername · Feb 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"Shoo."

Alas, the Leentniar fleet does not shoo.

doug89 · Feb 3, 2021

I'm amused by the enemies OL is facing lately that kill themselves with relatively little effort.

First it was the Scarabs that self destruct if you try to assimilate them. Then it's fleets of capital ships that detonate if you imply you want to follow them home.

Darko · Feb 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
with spatial distortion pulser

'pulsers'

Mr Zoat said:
I generally operate under the assumption that if someone uses anything more complex than a mass driver for planetary bombardment, they are showing off their 'equipment'."

Sometimes the simplest things are the best things.

Mr Zoat said:
Dealing with Citadelians was a frustration

Stupid, macho, violent morons.

I can see why she would feel like that.

Mr Zoat said:
Amalak is far more civilised."

Not that difficult to be in Vega.

Mr Zoat said:
You're used your

'You've'

Mr Zoat said:
"I can't think at his level. No one other than his father can

Maltusians exist.

Mr Zoat said:
"Do you intend-. Possumizer?"

It worked, didn't it?

Mr Zoat said:
The ships explode!

These guys are committed.

RichardWhereat · Feb 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
9th July 2012
06:35 GMT

"You're used your ring to neutralise an attack you hadn't encountered before today."

you're using or you've used

Handlewithcare · Feb 3, 2021

Yikes. That cultural trauma runs deep, huh?

But if Paul got a good look at their psyches he can at
least track the main fleet now.

Vaermina · Feb 3, 2021

doug89 said:
I'm amused by the enemies OL is facing lately that kill themselves with relatively little effort.

First it was the Scarabs that self destruct if you try to assimilate them. Then it's fleets of capital ships that detonate if you imply you want to follow them home.

Zoat, the writer, needs some way to maintain a modicum of suspense with how much he has over powered Paragon.

And well, that's pretty much the only option left at this point that isn't "teleport a black hole into your brain" levels of fuck the other guy.

moralrelativity · Feb 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
her far superior understanding of the physics involved allowing her to do a much cleaner job of shutting it down that I managed

I enjoy seeing Paul definitively NOT being the best OL in every way.

Mr Zoat said:
The ships explode!

Well, that was unexpected. So much for informing their masters... Or did they inform them and the masters triggered a self-destruct on the fleet?

Grimnar · Feb 3, 2021

Vaermina said:
Zoat, the writer, needs some way to maintain a modicum of suspense with how much he has over powered Paragon.

The Ophidian and the connection they have is the worst thing to happen in this story. It happened way too soon, distorting the power levels of the entire story.

He basically got endgame content right out of the fucking tutorial.

Chojin Patriarch · Feb 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
9th July 2012
06:35 GMT

"Shoo."

Alas, the Leentniar fleet does not shoo.

Oh well, time to wave the big orange willy around and shock them into stopping. And hope they don't go the way of the Quarians in their Bad End.

We've always known that the Reach weren't stupid. But what I perhaps didn't twig on is the fact that the volume of space they occupy means that even if they would ideally have liked to, it simply isn't possible for them to follow a single narrow set of directives everywhere. They simply have to exercise power in a decentralised way. So while their multifaceted assimilation campaigns across virtually their entire frontier were at least similar in general appearance, the sheer number of alien species they have contact with meant that it was inevitable that they'd try something a little different at some point.

After all, despite the Reach's best wishes, no two races think exactly the same. What one people find honourable, another will consider base cowardice. What one values, another will discard as rubbish. And don't even get started on Religion...

Not all parts of the Reach keep their patsies weak. Lantern Gozzi may have been on to something about them having regular contact.

Leentniar capital ships are ugly blocks of metal and ceramics armed with spatial distortion pulser which bypass most conventional defences. Including most-

They hang in the sky in much the way bricks should not, would you say? And their guns sound quite nasty...

The attack force fires a volley. A couple of shots ripple through space-time towards me, while the majority flow down the local gravity wells towards the local inhabited planet.

-construct defences. We don't have that many Lanterns trained for situations like this.

Good thing you're one of them, eh? After all, you're the ultimate all-rounder: Trained for everything, but master of none. Besides the whole spiritual side of things.

I wave my hands and space snaps back into shape, a blast of x-rays and gamma rays exploding from the wrinkle I just ironed.

"Fascinating." The construct Lantern Gozzi uses looks a little like a large kiln, appearing around a pulse and shrinking, her far superior understanding of the physics involved allowing her to do a much cleaner job of shutting it down that I managed. "Inefficient, but fascinating."

And the lady has a sense of aesthetics, I see. Classy. Good choice of apprentice, OL.

"Illustres to Leentniar fleet. You have not identified the reason for your attack or stated demands. You are intruding in territory in which you are not welcome. I will ask you once more to leave. If you do not comply-"

They fire another volley. Some distance away I detect a tiny flare of gamma radiation as Lantern Gozzi shuts down another.

"-then I will use direct force-"

Do they think he'll just go away if they keep shooting, or something? Talk about persistent.

Again, I forcibly stabilise space to block the shots heading towards me. I'm actually… Well, in a few minutes I'll take enough radiation exposure that I'd die if it wasn't for my rings, and the Leentniar ships are showing small signs of wear on their frontal armour as they continue to head in to the system.

Their weapons cause damage to their own ships? Or are they just flying into the figurative smoke trail? Either way, they're really persistent.. and a little dumb, it seems...

"'Inefficient'?"

"I generally operate under the assumption that if someone uses anything more complex than a mass driver for planetary bombardment, they are showing off their 'equipment'."

Probably a sort of psy-ops, to be fair. "Look how mighty our weapons are! See how your defences crumble before them!" Probably goes a long way to settling things without much effort.

"You get that a lot in Vega?"

"Dealing with Citadelians was a frustration. Amalak is far more civilised."

"At least he's large enough not to need to compensate for... Er... You heard nothing!"

"Not having any trouble?"

"Should I be?"

Well, Orange Rings are one of the user-friendliest systems. As long as your ring's VI is up to snuff and your database is extensive. Half the clever stuff OL did early on was mostly because he lacked the latter...

"You're used your ring to neutralise an attack you hadn't encountered before today."

"It's surprisingly rewarding. Coluans simply aren't adapted for combat in the way species like yours are, but I find that the intellectual change combined with the utility of my ring appeals to me."

I'm guessing Colu is a largely isolationist planet, with automata doing the bulk of combat duties... And I suspect the sheer amount of data a Ring's sensors can provide is a big bonus for her...

"Less slogging through the mud with a busted plasma gun?"

"Airless low-gravity corridors filled with smoke, and I generally only had a coil pistol."

Heheh. She's done her time in the figurative trenches, all right...

"I'm glad that you found a new employer. That sounds like a tremendous waste of your abilities."

"That was for Amalak."

Presumably said ship had vital data he only trusted her to be able to get to, and she went in with squads of Marines doing most of the actual fighting?

"If you're considering a full-time career change, I'm sure that Dox would appreciate having someone around who can think at his level."

"I can't think at his level. No one other than his father can."

Yes, yes, Twelfth-level intellectual snobbery at its finest... Don't be too surprised when Earth surprises you, my dear.

"I don't know about that. There's a family of mad scientists back on Earth-."

"It is not possible to properly practice science while insane."

Oh, he meant the other kind of Mad. I mean, Thaddeus Senior was kind of angry in his early days of crime.

"I'll give you one of Georgia Sivana's communication devices and you can argue the point with her."

"You mean to say that there is a member of your species who can match intellects with a clone of Vril Dox."

One? Try a whole family. Never mind all the other hypercognitive types.

"Yes, in some fields at least."

"I'm… Scepti-. Oh."

Ah, she looked them up. Bet she's thinking 'What the hells? How does that even work?!'

"Yeah, we get that a lot. And they've stopped shooting."

"Do you intend-. Possumizer?"

Say it with us: Earth Bullshittm!

"Don't try-. Huh."

"Very few people will continue shooting when their weapons are clearly having no effect."

Oh, that's hardly surprising. Especially if they continued blocking while chatting, as if it were no big difficulty. Which, for Gozzi, it probably wasn't.

"Yes, but-. No. I was going to say 'don't try to understand', but honestly? If you can? Please explain it to me. We'd really like to know."

"Do you intend to negotiate with them?"

And if they aren't empowered to negotiate - quite likely if they don't expect to leave any planetary residents alive, given their weapons - they can put him in touch with those who can...

"I'm going to give it one more go. Illustres to Leentniar fleet, please respond."

"You're giving them more opportunities to back down that I expected. Why not kill them and move on to the rest?"

Because he doesn't want to waste anything. These people can still be useful, but only if they can be persuaded to change.

"Because we're being recorded. And of course copies of our recordings of this conversation will make the rounds, as a comfort to our allies and a warning to anyone who might be planning on doing something stupid like becoming our enemy. Do you hear me?"

I stop transmitting.

Hearts and Minds, Gozzi. Make the enemy afraid of you, afraid to fight you, and you've won before a shot is fired.

"I can't afford to be called back to fight everyone who thinks they can stick the boot in while we're fighting the Reach. And as an organisation, N.E.M.O. can't afford to look like they can't stop that sort of attack. Word will get around."

"Leentniar Controller responding. We will quit this system."

Finally, they speak. Now, to see if they'll listen.

"And?"

"Refrain from further attacks against this system."

"Inadequate. All systems in your path are L.E.G.I.O.N. affiliates. We will protect all of them."

And that doesn't sound good. Evidently they think they can just keep running until they find a place NEMO isn't guarding...

"That will be relayed to my Masters."

"How about I do it instead. Lead the way."

Uh-oh. OL, that kidn of ultimatum...

The ships had been turning away, but a moment later they visibly change their direction, then-.

The ships explode!

...Crud. Either they committed suicide to protect their home fleet's location, or their 'Masters' did it for them.

Well. That went... Goddammit, these people are really trying to make OL want to destroy them, aren't they? Wasting that many lives because he might find them? Are they that paranoid about cultural contamination? Or are they just so used to being defensively secretive that they can no longer think any other way?

...but I find that the intellectual change combined with...

'Challenge', perhaps?

AidanMorgan · Feb 3, 2021

Is it just me or do a disproportionate number of updates end with the word "explode!"?

Darko · Feb 3, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
I'm guessing Colu is a largely isolationist planet, with automata doing the bulk of combat duties... And I suspect the sheer amount of data a Ring's sensors can provide is a big bonus for her...

From what we know from the comics they're isolationist.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yes, yes, Twelfth-level intellectual snobbery at its finest... Don't be too surprised when Earth surprises you, my dear

Dox is actually a tenth level.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Oh, he meant the other kind of Mad. I mean, Thaddeus Senior was kind of angry in his early days of crime

But now he's also the crazy kind of mad.

Mr Zoat · Feb 3, 2021

Darko said:
'pulsers'
'You've'

Thank you, corrected.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Oh well, time to wave the big orange willy around and shock them into stopping. And hope they don't go the way of the Quarians in their Bad End.

You don't think their bad end is being stuck in Sol with no dextro-compatible food and a destroyed relay network? By Orange Lantern standards, dying doing what you want is a good death.

Their weapons cause damage to their own ships? Or are they just flying into the figurative smoke trail? Either way, they're really persistent.. and a little dumb, it seems...

No, the radiation given off by the SI destorying their 'projectiles' does.

'Challenge', perhaps?

Thank you, corrected.

Vaermina · Feb 3, 2021

Grimnar said:
The Ophidian and the connection they have is the worst thing to happen in this story. It happened way too soon, distorting the power levels of the entire story.

He basically got endgame content right out of the fucking tutorial.

Eh... I would say it's tied with Zoat removing pretty much all of the negatives from the Orange Light.

Or possibly Zoat creating movable subspace pockets when they were previously stationary since that got rid of the charge limitation by allowing him to just pull his Lantern out and recharge anywhere.

DAT_NOOB · Feb 3, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well. That went... Goddammit, these people are really trying to make OL want to destroy them, aren't they? Wasting that many lives because he might find them? Are they that paranoid about cultural contamination? Or are they just so used to being defensively secretive that they can no longer think any other way?

I would've thought it would allow the reach to fake a video of OL just murdering an entire fleet after agreeing to talk thereby preventing any of their other allies from attempting to negotiate?

Faiir · Feb 3, 2021

I think this arc is not for me.
To be honest I think Paragon and Tang are the Pauls I'm least interested in.
I'm waiting for continued story of X-men Paul and both Warhammer Paul's

theaceoffire · Feb 3, 2021

Vaermina said:
Zoat, the writer, needs some way to maintain a modicum of suspense with how much he has over powered Paragon.

And well, that's pretty much the only option left at this point that isn't "teleport a black hole into your brain" levels of fuck the other guy.

Yes, but in the process he's accidentally made an enemy combatant who could be easily defeated by a loudspeaker on a torpedo screaming "I'm following you!!" and "I'm going to get ya!", Which doesn't scream competence or potential danger.

Mr Zoat · Feb 3, 2021

Faiir said:
I think this arc is not for me.
To be honest I think Paragon and Tang are the Pauls I'm least interested in.
I'm waiting for continued story of X-men Paul and both Warhammer Paul's

X-Men, can do, but after that it's Fallout.

Darko · Feb 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
X-Men, can do, but after that it's Fallout.

For some weird reason I was hoping it ould be the Twilight one.

Maybe its because I've been watching Dominic Noble videos.

Mr Zoat · Feb 3, 2021

Darko said:
For some weird reason I was hoping it ould be the Twilight one.

Maybe its because I've been watching Dominic Noble videos.

Mormon ninjas, man. Mormon ninjas.

Darko · Feb 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Mormom ninjas, man. Mormon ninjas.

Doyle wrote some weird stuff.

Doccer · Feb 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
The ships had been turning away, but a moment later they visibly change their direction, then-.

The ships explode!

Saw that coming. Should have let them believe you weren't going to follow them. Much better chance of them delivering the message and not exploding.

Darko · Feb 3, 2021

Doccer said:
Saw that coming. Should have let them believe you weren't going to follow them. Much better chance of them delivering the message and not exploding.

They may have been paranoid enough to think that he was playing some trick and just blow themselves up even if it looked like he wasn't following them.

DrThoth · Feb 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
The flag is… Post World War 2/Pre Great Awakening Japanese, though oddly I'm not seeing anyone from America.

This is from the future version of Paragon who's in Gate, so I'm wondering what the Great Awakening is that apparently changes the Japanese flag and presumably other things. I don't recall a Word of Zoat explaining it, but maybe I missed it?

Gilhelmi · Feb 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
No, he got arrested for trying to overthrow the government. They just thought that since the most they could punish him with under law was sending him to the phantom zone, there wasn't much point in trying him for anything else as well. And Amalak considers them complicit for letting Zod get into that position in the first place.

Honestly, I'd forgotten about it. I'll have to remember to put something during the next episode.

Thinking more about this, it could cause quite the interstellar-political incident. Especially with Amalak.

Krypton did not have a good reputation. So bad in fact that some might liken them to Nazi's. (Except for Earth, who only knew Superman.)

I wonder what Lantern Gozzi will do. Will she see the logic in the plan to parole largely innocent people, or will she have feelings of loyalty toward Amalak and inform him?

Will he try and kill off the last embers of Krypton, or accept OL's olive branch of trying to bring back his people (like mentioned a few parts ago)?

This has the makings of becoming a spicy political and action filled drama.

Laundromat2.0 · Feb 3, 2021

I don't agree with most of you guys, I really enjoy the Ophidian connection and the more mystical aspects of the Orange Light. Paul may seem overpowered, but honestly, we're more than 4m words in so that doesn't really bother me. If we were to transpose the serial's development onto a more standard fantasy series, we're not in the first installments anymore. Paul's main goals once he got his feet under him - of learning to use his powers with the League, of defeating Larfleeze, claiming the Orange Central Battery, and founding the OL Corps have already been accomplished. If he wasn't overpowered at this point, his growth would have to be so slow that it'd feel frustrating. We're at the point in the series where the real big bads of the entire galaxy are starting to line up, and for Paul to confront them he has to be strong.

Also, there's a lot of problems that can't be solved with a bigger gun, and those are also hella interesting.

Vaermina · Feb 4, 2021

Laundromat2.0 said:
I don't agree with most of you guys, I really enjoy the Ophidian connection and the more mystical aspects of the Orange Light. Paul may seem overpowered, but honestly, we're more than 4m words in so that doesn't really bother me. If we were to transpose the serial's development onto a more standard fantasy series, we're not in the first installments anymore. Paul's main goals once he got his feet under him - of learning to use his powers with the League, of defeating Larfleeze, claiming the Orange Central Battery, and founding the OL Corps have already been accomplished. If he wasn't overpowered at this point, his growth would have to be so slow that it'd feel frustrating. We're at the point in the series where the real big bads of the entire galaxy are starting to line up, and for Paul to confront them he has to be strong.

Also, there's a lot of problems that can't be solved with a bigger gun, and those are also hella interesting.

Except Paragon doesn't need to confront and defeat the big bads of the universe.

You can have stories where the main character looses. In fact, the best stories actually tend to be built around that. And that's because building narrative stakes is important for telling a compelling story.

For example, Peters story is more an Orange Lantern story played straight.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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I trust you know where the happy button is?

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