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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

driven mad by the Order-Chaos discord."

cool, nice to have that human beacon of existential discord there on the island where he's easily accessible to Eris; and it just so happens to be on the one island on Earth where she's most powerful. the best swerve would be John and Eris settling peacefully down together to intermingle with the Amazonians and restart the race.
 
If they manage to find a permanent solution for keeping John stable, we will finally get a fully powered lord of chaos+order.
Technically, wouldn't achieving true harmony between Order and Chaos, internally transmuting them into a singular whole, make Constantine a "Lord of Balance", or just a "Balancer"?

Of all the times that those two lovebird Rebel-Lords T'Charr and Terataya are needed to give advice....
 
Essentially before leaving for space he came up with a plausible cover story as to why Nabu/Fate is gone and Giovanni Zatara is back, when the League lied about how the former was using the latter as meat puppet and weren't really planning on separating the two save for Batman, and it didn't help they sort of bungled how to help/handle Zatanna who thought they wouldn't accept Nabu into the League so easily or give him her dad's spot/vote.

Since Nabu is dependent on his helmet to remain connected or act in the mortal world he could be considered a lich by definition of being an undead being who's soul in contain within a phylactory/object. Especially in England where such magics or actions could be considered unlawful and gives Paul leeway in trapping and killing Nabu in order to release Zatara.

Plus given the fact that no one decided to tell the public the truth it was a lie the League were willing to go with, though Guy did mention it nearly tore the group apart. Zoat has also mentioned how more than half the League has little idea of the situation such as the newer members, other like Wonder Woman thought that with time they could petition Nabu to give Giovanni his freedom, while some like Black Canary who have little to no knowledge/experience with magic decided there was nothing they could do and leave things as is.


can anyone link to the chapter where OL tears the League a new one for their handling of Nabu/Zatara? i tried going through the Threadmarks and can't remember what that storyline is called.

edit: here is the link to the chapter at SV. i had a bitch of a time finding it for some reason so i thought i should include it here for future reference.
 
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For some reason I'm expecting John and Paul to end up as best buddies for eventual centuries. Who else can cope with the type of crazy stuff that the other gets into? Just imagine, Paul and John, buddy "heroes", kind of fixing up the universe! One fuck up at a time!
They still need a George and a Ringo, though. The latter is a bit rare.
 
Feasibility Study (part 1)
Feasibility Study

15th November 2012
13:27 GMT -5


"So…"

I look around the Tower's library. This is where we met up before our sojourn into Hell to get Satanus. Which I suppose means that we can rule out anyone associated with him as 'the hole in the universe'.

"Do we have any idea what he was trying to do?"

Sephtian nods, barely able to turn his attention away from the notes that he and his team have spread out over the writing desks.

"Yes, I believe so. We will know for certain if we find a second machine like the one you destroyed."

"A-. Second?"

"John Constantine was attempting to balance himself. You saw that there were far more Order-attuned crystals than Chaos-attuned ones. You also saw that he had caged raw Dream-stuff."

"And Demon John said that he'd been using the balcony which opens onto the Dream storm outside."

I glance out of the window. From the outside, it looks much the same as it did last time.

"What was he doing?"

"He did not get that sand from Morpheus. As far as-" He turns back towards the tables, looking for something-. "-we-. Ah!"

He strides over to one of the tables, and I take a moment to be impressed by how far the water armour designs have come in such a relatively short time. He's moving easily despite being in the open air and unless the light catches him at exactly the right angle I wouldn't know it was there. Pushing two pages aside he grabs one from beneath them and brings it back to me, ignoring the disgruntled crablantean who was studying it.

"Here, you see."

I try making sense of the diagram, but… It's well beyond me. Quinn doesn't appear to have been all that impressed by Atlantean notation. Some of what he used reminds me of John Dee's writing, but this is far more sophisticated.

"I don't suppose that you've translated his notation-?"

One of the researchers raises her head. "Come back in two or three years!"

Sephtian jerks his head around and glares at the impetuous researcher. "Orange Lantern could decipher it in two or three years. We are the mostly highly skilled professionals on Earth."

The researcher appears to be torn between her desire to give her honest opinion and her desire to avoid insulting her boss.

"One to two years."

"That's better." He turns back to me, looking for somewhere to spread out the-.

I take hold of the paper and attach it to a construct flipchart.

"Thank you. This part appears to be a depiction of the part that processed the raw chaos of the storm into sand." He shudders slightly. "I had no idea that was where the sand came from."

"I wouldn't get too enthralled. I don't think Morpheus would be too happy if we started mucking about with it."

"That.. is.. a good point. But will he complain about us studying a device that already exists?"

"I don't know. I've never spoken to him. Do you have someone on your team who specialises in understanding powerful elemental beings?"

In the background, someone snorts.

For a moment, Sephtian doesn't reply. The eyes of more than a few of the other researchers have turned our way.

"No."

"Oh. Well, the only person I know of who's spoken to him recently is Sandman, but I don't think they had an in-depth conversation. I can only suggest that you avoid doing anything that John Quinn didn't and stop the moment he complains about it."

"Yes, of course. Even going as far as John Quinn managed to will take us… 'One to two' years and teach us a great deal."

"Do you know what he managed to do yet?"

"That is easier to understand." He sighs. "Though Sandman absorbing so much sand and the destruction to the machine makes it harder to understand the specifics. He extracted sand from the storm outside and used what remained to create a smaller 'tame' storm for his own use. Combining both elements allowed him to manifest the man you knew as 'The Golden Boy' as an intelligent being derived from John Constantine's own memories and sense of inadequacy. But between the records we have found and the remaining Chaos crystals, we think…"

He pauses, and I imagine him rechecking his figures in his head.

"We think that he may have been attempting to impose structure on the Dream itself."

"Sure, that's… Possible. We saw the city-."

"All of the Dream."

"I don't see Morpheus tolerating that."

"I don't either. But I do not know what else it could be."

"Dream spaceship?"

He blinks in confusion for a moment, then his eyes widen.

"I mean, I'm just hoping, I've got no idea-."

He grabs the paper off the construct board and runs over to the team working on the desks.



"Okay."

It would be nice if it was something like a Dream spaceship. Unlike most afterlives, the Dream is universal. It's just that travelling through it reliably is such a pain that it's not worth it, and then there's the fact that actual gates that physical objects can use are virtually unheard of.

But it's not going to be that. It's going to be him trying to Anti-Life the Dream or something else equally ridiculous. Normally the range of Anti-Life exposure is limited and if it's not constant then people can recover. Plug it into their dreams…

There aren't many ways into the Dream. Erebos is as well defended as it's going to get, and the Tower of Fate is… Well, there's a reason why we came in through the balcony. Lock down the Tower and no one is getting in.

But this place went from a curiosity to a weak point for the entire universe.

I'd suggest destroying it, but I've got no idea if that's even possible.

We need to get John back here just to make sure that nothing goes wrong, but he's in no fit state to look after himself, much less the Tower of Fate.

Who else..?

The construct Helmet of Demon Fate precipitates out of my ring, hovering in the air.

"How may I serve?"

"It turns out that I need a doorstop. Well volunteered."
 
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I don't know. I've never spoken to him

You have.

Though you were mergedwith the Ophidian at the time.

Do you have someone on your team who specialises in understanding powerful elemental beings?"

In the background, someone snorts.

For a moment, Sephtian doesn't reply. The eyes of more than a few of the other researchers have turned our way.

"No."

That poor, underappreciated elementalist.

We think that me may have been attempting to impose structure on the Dream itself.

Oh shit.

I thought he was planning on using Thorn to spread Anti-Life through plants but this is worse.
 
I somehow doubt Apokolips hadn't tried this already.

It's a problem with too high stakes in general: if a single action, like a physics experiment or something, could destroy all of creation you know it actually won't because otherwise at some point someone would most likely already have done it and creation would be gone.

Kinda takes the tension out.
 
I somehow doubt Apokolips hadn't tried this already.

It's a problem with too high stakes in general: if a single action, like a physics experiment or something, could destroy all of creation you know it actually won't because otherwise at some point someone would most likely already have done it and creation would be gone.

Kinda takes the tension out.
Or the action succeeds in most of the universes and this is the rare universe it didn't happen in. Yet.
 
Sephtian jerks his head around and glares at the impetuous researcher. "Orange Lantern could decipher it in two or three years. We are the mostly highly skilled professionals on Earth."
That should say 'most'.

"I don't know. I've never spoken to him. Do you have someone on your team who specialises in understanding powerful elemental beings?"

In the background, someone snorts.

For a moment, Sephtian doesn't reply. The eyes of more than a few of the other researchers have turned our way.

"No."
I'm guessing that one elementalist decided to stop coming to their meetings due to being snubbed? Also, Paul spoke with Dream when he was looking for Melinoë and the latter tasked Paul with finding Sandy. So that should say 'I've hardly spoken to him.'.

The construct Helmet of Demon Fate precipitates out of my ring, hovering in the air.

"How may I serve?"

"It turns out that I need a doorstop. Well volunteered."
Nice to know Paul still has access to this guy. How long will he be serving as the interim guardian of the Tower of Fate?
 
"I don't know. I've never spoken to him. Do you have someone on your team who specialises in understanding powerful elemental beings?"

In the background, someone snorts.

For a moment, Sephtian doesn't reply. The eyes of more than a few of the other researchers have turned our way.

"No."
Before clicking the link, I was assuming this was implying Sephtian was the specialist after having to deal with Paul.
 
Repose

15th November 2012
13:27 GMT -5


"So…"

I look around the Tower's library. This is where we met up before our sojourn into Hell to get Satanus. Which I suppose means that we can rule out anyone associated with him as 'the hole in the universe'.
That's still a worry, yes. The possible suspects we know of that have appeared on-screen is a very exclusive list (including Dark Druid, Johnny Sorrow and Doctor Impossible, at least), but all of them are very, very dangerous people. Anti-Life-related or not, any one of them may be lurking out there somewhere, just waiting to cause trouble...

"Do we have any idea what he was trying to do?"

Sephtian nods, barely able to turn his attention away from the notes that he and his team have spread out over the writing desks.
Ah, high-level experimental thaumaturgists at work. Let's hope they don't start pulling out the string and pinboards, or things may get odd.

"Yes, I believe so. We will know for certain it we find a second machine like the one you destroyed."

"A-. Second?"
Oh, dear. The big worry is, who would it be used on?

"John Constantine was attempting to balance himself. You saw that there were far more Order-attuned crystals than Chaos-attuned ones. You also saw that he had caged raw Dream-stuff."

"And Demon John said that he'd been using the balcony which opens onto the Dream storm outside."
...That suggests the intended result is much more Chaos-aligned than Orderly. Bad news.

I glance out of the window. From the outside, it looks much the same as it did last time.

"What was he doing?"

"He did not get that sand from Morpheus. As far as-" He turns back towards the tables, looking for something-. "-we-. Ah!"
To be fair, Morpheus' pouch of Dream-sand was being passed about in the world for nearly a century, so I don't doubt there are traces amounts of it floating all about the world, never mind within the Dreaming.

He strides over to one of the tables, and I take a moment to be impressed by how far the water armour designs have come in such a relatively short time. He's moving easily despite being in the open air and unless the light catches him at exactly the right angle I wouldn't know it was there. Pushing two pages aside he grabs one from beneath them and brings it back to me, ignoring the disgruntled crablantean who was studying it.

"Here, you see."
Heh. An aquatic creature's version of an encounter suit. I can bet they put a lot of effort into keeping the generating parts compact, lightweight and durable. Some of them aren't exactly world-class athletes, after all.

I try making sense of the diagram, but… It's well beyond me. Quinn doesn't appear to have been all that impressed by Atlantean notation. Some of what he used reminds me of John Dee's writing, but this is far more sophisticated.

"I don't suppose that you've translated his notation-?"
Not impossible. There are ancient manuscripts that people still haven't translated, and not for lack of trying, either.

One of the researchers raises her head. "Come back in two or three years!"

Sephtian jerks his head around and glares at the impetuous researcher. "Orange Lantern could decipher it in two or three years. We are the mostly highly skilled professionals on Earth."
Yeah, you're basically the Atlantean equivalents of Starfleet engineers. Always overquote expected times, in order to look better for getting it done fast. :p

The researcher appears to be torn between her desire to give her honest opinion and her desire to avoid insulting her boss.

"One to two years."
Still not terrible. Could probably work even faster if they could employ machine-learning decryption techniques. o_O Though that might run the risk of the VI becoming self-aware and going mad with power. This is the DC Universe, after all. :D

"That's better." He turns back to me, looking for somewhere to spread out the-.

I take hold of the paper and attach it to a construct flipchart.
Ah, Lanterns. For when you need instant tables and pinboards.

"Thank you. This part appears to be a depiction of the part that processed the raw chaos of the storm into sand." He shudders slightly. "I had no idea that was where the sand came from."

"I wouldn't get too enthralled. I don't think Morpheus would be too happy if we started mucking about with it."
True. And it's likely to have far-reaching consequences anyway, because Sod's Law is always out to get you...

"That.. is.. a good point. But will he complain about us studying a device that already exists?"

"I don't know. I've never spoken to him. Do you have someone on your team who specialises in understanding powerful elemental beings?"
Oh, boy. Here we go. The perceived 'loser' of their out-there circle of magical sciences...

In the background, someone snorts.

For a moment, Sephtian doesn't reply. The eyes of more than a few of the other researchers have turned our way.
...I'm guessing the last person who they might have called quit...

"No."

"Oh. Well, the only person I know of whose spoken to him recently in Sandman, but I don't think they had an in-depth conversation. I can only suggest that you avoid doing anything that John Quinn didn't and stop the moment he complains about it."
And believe me, you will know when he complains.

"Yes, of course. Even going as far as John Quinn managed to will take us… 'One to two' years and teach us a great deal."

"Do you know what he managed to do yet?"
Just in case someone tries to repeat it someday. Especially on someone important.

"That is easier to understand." He sighs. "Though Sandman absorbing so much sand and the destruction to the machine makes it harder to understand the specifics. The extracted sand from the storm outside and used what remained to create a smaller 'tame' storm for his own use. Combining both elements allowed him to manifest the man you knew as 'The Golden Boy' as an intelligent being derived from John Constantine's own memories and sense of inadequacy. But between the records we have found and the remaining Chaos crystals, we think…"
Do be careful with that stuff, by the way. It tends to disagree with mortal biology, I would expect.

He pauses, and I imagine him rechecking his figures in his head.

"We think that me may have been attempting to impose structure on the Dream itself."
...Shiiiit. I suspect that would have narked Morpheus right the hell off. Never mind the implications for all life in the universe that's capable of dreaming.

"Sure, that's… Possible. We saw the city-."

"All of the Dream."
The bottled Baghdad, after all, is a creation of Morpheus. It's not surprise that the things he makes have more natural order to them over the wild places where reality bends and opens cracks into the Dreaming..

"I don't see Morpheus tolerating that."

"I don't either. But I do not know what else it could be."
It's still a terrifying idea.

"Dream spaceship?"

He blinks in confusion for a moment, then his eyes widen.
Don't worry, it's just OL being OL.

"I mean, I'm just hoping, I've got no idea-."

He grabs the paper off the construct board and runs over to the team working on the desks.
...Oh, boy. OL, this never seemed like the best idea anyway. It rather smacks of 'Warhammer 40,000's use of Warp Travel. And flitting about space using the collective realm of all conscious thought was never the best idea.

Let's just hope that Spehtian comes back and says, "I've discussed it with the others, and we are pretty sure it isn't. Also, we all agree that's a terrible idea. Please stop trying to make it happen..."

It would be nice if it was something like a Dream spaceship. Unlike most afterlives, the Dream is universal. It's just that travelling through it reliably is such a pain that it's not worth it, and then there's the fact that actual gates that physical objects can use are virtually unheard of.

But it's not going to be that. It's going to be him trying to Anti-Life the Dream or something else equally ridiculous. Normally the range of Anti-Life exposure is limited and if it's not constant then people can recover. Plug it into their dreams…
...What if he wasn't looking for a way to travel within this universe? Rather, he was building something akin to a Shiftship from first principles? That could probably explain some of the random dimensional castaways, too, depending on how long he's been working on it...

There aren't many ways into the Dream. Erebos is as well defended as it's going to get, and the Tower of Fate is… Well, there's a reason why we came in through the balcony. Lock down the Tower and no one is getting in.

But this place went from a curiosity to a weak point for the entire universe.
I think Morpheus keeps the entrances limited for good reason. The last thing he'd want is tourists.

I'd suggest destroying it, but I've got no idea if that's even possible.

We need to get John back here just to make sure that nothing goes wrong, but he's in no fit state to look after himself, much less the Tower of Fate.
Assuming he ever wants to take over again. Then again, New 52 John ended up using one of the Houses of the Dreaming as a base for Justice League Dark, as stupid an idea as that was.

Who else..?

The construct Helmet of Demon Fate precipitates out of my ring, hovering in the air.
Now, did OL call him out, or did he sense the line of thought and step up in his master's stead? Some Construct Lanterns do retain a bit more self-awareness than others.

"How may I serve?"

"It turns out that I need a doorstop. Well volunteered."
As long as he's given very sharply defined restrictions, he might well be useful.

So, the clean-up after John's little bout of tomfoolery is starting to play out, I see. Making sense of what Quinn was doing, trying to work out who he worked with, if anyone, and if any of his former prisoners are still running around out there laden with Anti-Life, or something like it. I suspect this will keep OL busy for some time. Fellow does seem to get creative when he's got nothing to do...
 
Is this chapter implying they were able to get demon fate off the poor guy's head safely? because I hope that is the case.
 
...Oh, boy. OL, this never seemed like the best idea anyway. It rather smacks of 'Warhammer 40,000's use of Warp Travel. And flitting about space using the collective realm of all conscious thought was never the best idea.

It does indeed. There's a surprising amount of parallels between the Endless and the powers of 40k. Though with added grimdark, of course.

Not Del, though. She's not part of the universe, she just took Barnabas out for walkies and found the way through Destiny's maze.
 
Thank you, corrected.
You have.

Though you were mergedwith the Ophidian at the time.
That was Desire.

The SI did sort of communicate with Dream when he went looking for Sanderson, but it wasn't much of a conversation.
The extracted sand from the storm outside and used what remained to create a smaller 'tame' storm for his own use.
Thank you, corrected.
 
.... Dear god. The lines have become so blurred.
In any case, Can you even anti-life an Endless?
As beings that are the embodiment of the totality of things, they're already connected to it in someway.

I imagine it would be redundant.
 
Awww.... did the dolphin guy get kicked out?

Maybe he tried something he shouldn't have.

Despite being cute, dolphins can be pretty psychotic.

That was Desire, actually.

He also talked with Dream around the time Melinoe was kidnapped.

The SI did sort of communicate with Dream when he went looking for Sanderson, but it wasn't much of a conversation

Yep

.... Dear god. The lines have become so blurred.
In any case, Can you even anti-life an Endless?
As beings that are the embodiment of the totality of things, they're already connected to it in someway.

I imagine it would be redundant.

They may potentially be connected to it, but it may just be a small connection and what Quinn was trying to do could have made their connection much bigger.
 
Yeah, you're basically the Atlantean equivalents of Starfleet engineers. Always overquote expected times, in order to look better for getting it done fast. :p

And if your superiors find out about it then you'll see it stop and you'll go crazy unless unless you're like Brad Boimler.

And even then you'll be remembered for being lazy.

At least Miles will get the respect he deserves.

Let's just hope that Spehtian comes back and says, "I've discussed it with the others, and we are pretty sure it isn't. Also, we all agree that's a terrible idea. Please stop trying to make it happen..."

As if that will stop Paul.

Assuming he ever wants to take over again. Then again, New 52 John ended up using one of the Houses of the Dreaming as a base for Justice League Dark, as stupid an idea as that was.

It wouldn't be John if it wasn't weird.
 
"In that case, you can help Orange Lantern work out the political ramifications of his actions, and the best way to deal with a simultaneous invasion of Earth by the armies of Hell and the Silver City when they find out what he's doing this time. And what all of the surface monotheists are going to make of it."

What did she end up advising him to do in such a case anyway? Was it at all useful when heaven actually did invade later?
 

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