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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Meanwhile on Earth 534834 New
30th September 1995
18:39 GMT -5


Peter gestures back towards the counter of the Chinese restaurant we're in with his left thumb. "You sure you don't want anything? We're coming up on rush hour."

"No, thank you." We head over to a side table to wait for his order. "We usually eat together as a team, personal schedules permitting. But if this place has your recommendation then I'll definitely bring Anne-Marie here sometime."

He looks around, and… "I'm not sure it's really a date kinda place."

I follow his gaze, and suppress the desire to clean and repair the place. And the desire to check the kitchens. "Is the food good?"

He shrugs. "It's cheap."

Ah, right. The few Spiderman-related comics I read took place long after he stopped being an part-time photographer for the Daily Bugle, but here that's still his sole source of income. If I try asking for good restaurants he could probably tell me what the Bugle's restaurant critic likes, but I've seen critic-food, and… No.

"You know, you really didn't have to come. I'd have been fine getting home by myself."

I shake my head. "No no. New York has a truly impressive crime rate, you're under the weather and… There's that web-slinging menace to society to consider."

That gets a wry smile.

"Can I ask you a personal question?"

"I guess? I might not wanna answer…"

"Have you ever..? Have you ever thought about how.. what you've learned about your own genetics..? Does it affect your decisions about..? Dating, or having children yourself?"

"Huh." He sits back in his chair. "That is pretty personal. And heavy." He glances at where my right hand rests on the table top. "Are you and your wife having.. problems?"

"Anne-Marie's power drains the life out of anyone she touches."

"So-." He blinks as he immediately realises the significance of that statement. "Oh. So..?"

"Mutant powers don't work on genetic relatives… Some of the time. As far as we can tell, she should be able to carry a child to term as long as they're a mutant too."

"And what happens if they're not?"

"Ah… Rough guess, the fertilized egg would be drained the moment it touched the uterine lining. In the normal run of things we wouldn't even know that she'd been pregnant."

He frowns slightly, looking down. "I guess that's… Better than…"

"Draining them continuously while they tried to grow? Or giving birth and not being able to touch them? Maybe. But we can easily do I.V.F. and make sure that they're a mutant… Except there's a good chance they'll get an ability similar to hers and that's not exactly a lot of fun either."

"Does it happen like that every time?"

"Have you heard of Magneto?"

"Everyone's heard of Magneto."

"He's got three children, and one of them inherited his exact power. The other two have powers that are completely different. Cyclops and his brother both fire energy beams, but from different parts of their bodies."

He half-grins. "Do I wanna know?"

I roll my eyes. "His hands. Though in theory there could be a mutant out there who fires beams from other places."

He nods. "So… You wanna know if I've thought about it? Passing on… What I have to my kids?"

"Yes."

"Not really. Mostly I just try and work out how to get to the end of the week. But now you've made me think about it… It's not like they'd need to put on a mask."

"Your thing happened a few years ago. Things might be different if someone had it from birth. And I doubt that a child would know to keep quiet about it."

"I guess not. And that's not even thinking about all the ways it could go wrong." He sighs. "I don't think this was covered in health class."

"You'd think it would be by now, given the increase in the number of people born like that. Though I suppose it doesn't usually become an issue until adolescence."

"But you decided to go ahead anyway?"

I nod. "Anne-Marie and I. I'm pretty sure that the popularity of the Friends of Humanity is a short term panic response, so I was going to wait until things were a little calmer. She-." How to put it? "I have a lot of respect for Professor Xavier, but sometimes…" I shake my head. "I read an article once where the author demeaned a charitable foundation set up by a famous actor. The actor in question was paralysed after falling off a horse, and the charity was for people with spinal injuries. The author said that campaigning for something that will improve your own life isn't really charitable, and went on to compare that to an actor he admired who spent time and money working with a charity he supported which didn't do anything relating to him or his life."

"Okay? So you don't think he'd have done anything about mutant rights if he wasn't one?"

"He talks-. No, to be fair, talked, about x-gene mutants like they're a different species. He doesn't do it so much since I pointed it out…"

"Really?"

"You've got to remember that him and Magneto used to be good friends. They don't really disagree on the situation, just the best solution."

"What's Magneto's deal, anyway? I don't see how going around destroying things is supposed to make people like mutants more."

"He grew up in a Nazi concentration camp." I shrug as Peter's eyes widen. "He thinks a race war is inevitable, because he lived through one, and this time he wants to be on the winning side. If you ever see someone from the Friends of Humanity, just imagine the armband has a swastika on it and your family name is 'Goldstein'."

"Okay… But has someone pointed out to him who he sounds like when he calls mutants 'the superior-'."

"Yes." I nod. "Yes, I did. Do you want to guess what his response was?"

"Ah…" He raises his eyebrows. "'But I'm right'?"

I smile broadly. "You heard it before!"

He bows his head for a moment. "So what was that about Professor Xavier?"

"He still fairly clearly regards x-gene mutants as a natural… Group, separate from people without the x-gene. And as if talking to someone from the same time and place as you is the same as.. international relations between two potentially hostile countries."

"That's… Pretty weird. I haven't thought of myself as… Part of a different culture since I-" He looks around, but no one's paying us any attention. "-got mine."

"Right. I mean, I joke about being the team's token baseline human, but you don't see him inviting anyone with powers who doesn't have the x-gene coming to study how their powers work, and that's after me prodding him about it for years."

He smiles for a moment, and then takes on a more serious expression. "I guess… Kids… It's something I should look into before… Before something else bad happens. I have to work out how to stabilise myself at least."

I nod. "It's a sensible thing to do, and I'll pick the Professor's brain to see if there's anything he can do to help once he gets back."
 
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This is nice. Peter desperately needs someone he can relate to and talk to about this kinda stuff instead of constantly being isolated.

Looking forward to him and marvel Paul just being bros. Maybe looking into doing something to support and reform people that gain super powers in ways other than being born with them.

The X-men cause is mutants. Other people that get powers could use a group to help them out as well.

Maybe the fantastic four could get involved as that happened to them and they have resources they can throw at it.

...and Stark could make a foundation for the tech heros. Why not.
 
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30th September 1995
18:39 GMT -5


Peter gestures back towards the counter of the Chinese restaurant we're in with his left thumb. "You sure you don't want anything? We're coming up on rush hour."

"No, thank you." We head over to a side table to wait for his order. "We usually eat together as a team, personal schedules permitting. But if this place has your recommendation then I'll definitely bring Anne-Marie here sometime."
Meeting in civvies this time, I see. Petey isn't worried that Paul knows his face, or did he realise that the Ring could casually map what he looks like under the mask with minimal difficulty? Wouldn't take much more than that to realise no secret identity is secret with Paul around.

He looks around, and… "I'm not sure it's really a date kinda place."

I follow his gaze, and suppress the desire to clean and repair the place. And the desire to check the kitchens. "Is the food good?"
God, the number of Kitchen Nightmares episodes I've seen with terrible hygiene behind the front-of-shop areas...

He shrugs. "It's cheap."

Ah, right. The few Spiderman-related comics I read took place long after he stopped being an part-time photographer for the Daily Bugle, but here that's still his sole source of income. If I try asking for good restaurants be could probably tell me what the Bugle's restaurant critic likes, but I've seen critic-food, and… No.
Ah, yes, the 'tiny portion good' logic. Or they see the critic coming and get him the good stuff.

"You know, you really didn't have to come. I'd have been fine getting home by myself."

I shake my head. "No no. New York has a truly impressive crime rate, you're under the weather and… There's that web-slinging menace to society to consider."
Some nice, casual poking. You know, Paul could probably use some non-X-men friends. And Pete could use, well, any friends.

That gets a wry smile.

"Can I ask you a personal question?"

"I guess? I might not wanna answer…"
Especially if it hits his trauma buttons.

"Have you ever..? Have you ever thought about how.. what you've learned about your own genetics..? Does it affect your decisions about..? Dating, or having children yourself?"

"Huh." He sits back in his chair. "That is pretty personal. And heavy." He glances at where my right hand rests on the table top. "Are you and your wife having.. problems?"
Ah, the inevitable thought of Spider-children. Especially when you consider who he might have them with. Gwen Stacy never appeared in this series, Nor did Betty Brant. I guess the creators felt Mary Jane was enough romantic options.

"Anne-Marie's power drains the life out of anyone she touches."

"So-." He blinks as he immediately realises the significance of that statement. "Oh. So..?"
Yeah, you can see the obvious issue. Smart guy indeed.

"Mutant powers don't work on genetic relatives… Some of the time. As far as we can tell, she should be able to carry a child to term as long as they're a mutant too."

"And what happens if they're not?"
There's also the option of external artificial wombs. A discreet poke-around at the Shi'ar might help. Or maybe Reed Richards can gimmick something up

"Ah… Rough guess, the fertilized egg would be drained the moment it touched the uterine lining. In the normal run of things we wouldn't even know that she'd been pregnant."

He frowns slightly, looking down. "I guess that's… Better than…"
Yes, that can go so many ways worse...

"Draining them continuously while they tried to grow? Or giving birth and not being able to touch them? Maybe. But we can easily do I.V.F. and make sure that they're a mutant… Except there's a good chance they'll get an ability similar to hers and that's not exactly a lot of fun either."
And to some degree, Mutant powers do have a sadistic streak sometimes.

"Does it happen like that every time?"

"Have you heard of Magneto?"

"Everyone's heard of Magneto."
He is a bit of a problem. The whole mutant supremacy thing honestly set his cause back so far over the years. Still surprised no other heroes ever showed up during his little outbursts. Such was the compartmentalised nature of the Marvel animated series at the time.

"He's got three children, and one of them inherited his exact power. The other two have powers that are completely different. Cyclops and his brother both fire energy beams, but from different parts of their bodies."

He half-grins. "Do I wanna know?"
Think clean thoughts, chum.

I roll my eyes. "His hands. Though in theory there could be a mutant out there who fires beams from other places."

He nods. "So… You wanna know if I've thought about it? Passing on… What I have to my kids?"
Tobey Macguire Spidey was lucky his organic webspinners grew in his wrists.

"Yes."

"Not really. Mostly I just try and work out how to get to the end of the week. But now you've made me think about it… It's not like they'd need to put on a mask."
More importantly, would you let them? If they know you're Spidey, they'd feel the need to be heroic too.

"Your thing happened a few years ago. Things might be different if someone had it from birth. And I doubt that a child would know to keep quiet about it."

"I guess not. And that's not even thinking about all the ways it could go wrong." He sighs. "I don't think this was covered in health class."
And I thought Swarm was a crazy idea...

"You'd think it would be by now, given the increase in the number of people born like that. Though I suppose it doesn't usually become an issue until adolescence."

"But you decided to go ahead anyway?"
Worst case, he could get in touch with the Xavier Institute when the kids start showing powers...

I nod. "Anne-Marie and I. I'm pretty sure that the popularity of the Friends of Humanity is a short term panic response, so I was going to wait until things were a little calmer. She-." How to put it? "I have a lot of respect for Professor Xavier, but sometimes…" I shake my head. "I read an article once where the author demeaned a charitable foundation set up by a famous actor. The actor in question was paralysed after falling off a horse, and the charity was for people with spinal injuries. The author said that campaigning for something that will improve your own life isn't really charitable, and went on to compare that to an actor he admired who spent time and money working with a charity he supported which didn't do anything relating to him or his life."
That's a ridiculous idea. Charity shouldn't be governed or judged by 'how useful is this to the person promoting it?' 😒 Man, sometimes my faith in humanity is sorely tested...

"Okay? So you don't think he'd have done anything about mutant rights if he wasn't one?"

"He talks-. No, to be fair, talked, about x-gene mutants like they're a different species. He doesn't do it so much since I pointed it out…"
Probably a leftover of a teenage sense of "I'm different.' Charles did not have a fun childhood, after all.

"Really?"

"You've got to remember that him and Magneto used to be good friends. They don't really disagree on the situation, just the best solution."

"What's Magneto's deal, anyway? I don't see how going around destroying things is supposed to make people like mutants more."
Sadly, in his case, it's not about being liked, it's about being feared. As if being too scary to consider attacking is somehow protection from idiots.

"He grew up in a Nazi concentration camp." I shrug as Peter's eyes widen. "He thinks a race war is inevitable, because he lived through one, and this time he wants to be on the winning side. If you ever see someone from the Friends of Humanity, just imagine the armband has a swastika on it and your family name is 'Goldstein'."
And I suspect that's a big part of why J. Jonah dislikes them so much. He's (usually) old enough to remember the last time.

"Okay… But has someone pointed out to him who he sounds like when he calls mutants 'the superior-'."

"Yes." I nod. "Yes, I did. Do you want to guess what his response was?"
Oh, I bet he really dislikes Paul for undermining his whole 'next step of human evolution' philosophy.

"Ah…" He raises his eyebrows. "'But I'm right'?"

I smile broadly. "You heard it before!"
Not in the same context, but I would expect so.

He bows his head for a moment. "So what was that about Professor Xavier?"

"He still fairly clearly regards x-gene mutants as a natural… Group, separate from people without the x-gene. And as if talking to someone from the same time and place as you is the same as.. international relations between two potentially hostile countries."
It's foolish, to instil that false separation so early in their existence.

"That's… Pretty weird. I haven't thought of myself as… Part of a different culture since I-" He looks around, but no one's paying us any attention. "-got mine."

"Right. I mean, I joke about being the team's token baseline human, but you don't see him inviting anyone with powers who doesn't have the x-gene coming to study how their powers work, and that's after me prodding him about it for years."
And at this point, I don't think there are any second-generation superhumans to be concerned with, are there? Franklin Richards, probably the most famous child of super-heroes in Marvel, is likely a few years off yet.

He smiles for a moment, and then takes on a more serious expression. "I guess… Kids… It's something I should look into before… Before something else bad happens. I have to work out how to stabilise myself at least."

I nod. "It's a sensible thing to do, and I'll pick the Professor's brain to see if there's anything he can do to help once he gets back."
And make sure things like your bodily fluids are safe for other people. Yes, that was a stupid storyline, but it might happen.

Perhaps someday, we'll get a snippet from this story of the future, and see a team of second-generation heroes, along the lines of the MC2. It'd be fascinating to see how it all spins out. But for now, they have to worry about Pete living long enough to think of kids, and Paul finding a solution for Rogue's complicated situation. Oh, and all the usual X-men and Spiderman stuff in their future.
 
Mr Zoat, minor question: Did you decide to stop numbering the parts of Meanwhile on Earth 534834 in this run? If not and it was just not having the information to hand, they would be parts 12-17, I believe. As far as I can tell, the last one prior was part 11 in Episode 132: Fleet Traction.
 
Thank you, corrected.
Especially when you consider who he might have them with. Gwen Stacy never appeared in this series, Nor did Betty Brant. I guess the creators felt Mary Jane was enough romantic options.
They offered him supersoldier formula enhanced Felecia Hardy. He has no grounds for complaint on that score.
That's a ridiculous idea. Charity shouldn't be governed or judged by 'how useful is this to the person promoting it?' 😒 Man, sometimes my faith in humanity is sorely tested...
I'm reminded of Skyrim: you receive the blessing 'gift of charity' when you give money to a beggar, making it neither a gift nor charity. How is it charity if you're only doing it to serve your interests?
I was expecting that to be a link to the dude from my hero academia. With the navel laser.
I don't really know MHA.
Mr Zoat, minor question: Did you decide to stop numbering the parts of Meanwhile on Earth 534834 in this run? If not and it was just not having the information to hand, they would be parts 12-17, I believe. As far as I can tell, the last one prior was part 11 in Episode 132: Fleet Traction.
A quick look at the contents page suggests that I generally don't number the ones from this continuety.
I was under the impression that when mutated humans have children that inherit powers, said children turn out to be mutants or at least considered mutants, no? Franklin Richards, for example.
Does he have an x-gene? Would Magneto consider him a mutant?
 
Does he have an x-gene? Would Magneto consider him a mutant?

Actually, yes. Franklin was one of those known Omega Level Mutants for forever. But I think recently it got retconned to not be so anymore, if memory serves; probably something about not wanting rights to the character to be mixed up, which ends up being a moot point considering it all ended up belonging to Disney anyway.
 
Mr Zoat, minor question: Did you decide to stop numbering the parts of Meanwhile on Earth 534834 in this run? If not and it was just not having the information to hand, they would be parts 12-17, I believe. As far as I can tell, the last one prior was part 11 in Episode 132: Fleet Traction.
A quick look at the contents page suggests that I generally don't number the ones from this continuety.
Perhaps we're looking at different things. The first 11 parts of this continuity are numbered, at least in the threadmarks and in this post https://forum.questionablequesting....-justice-si-thread-fourteen.8938/post-2401948 which contains the list of parts for the previous round of entries in this continuity that I could find (all in Episode 132: Fleet Traction). That is why I asked if you'd meant to stop numbering them in this round (meaning the recent ones in Episode 154: Supnautica (part 2)) and not this part (i.e.: part 17).
 
author demeaned a charitable foundation set up by a famous actor. The actor in question was paralysed after falling off a horse, and the charity was for people with spinal injuries. The author said that campaigning for something that will improve your own life isn't really charitable, and went on to compare that to an actor he admired who
My phone keeps telling me these pages are unreachable.
That's a ridiculous idea. Charity shouldn't be governed or judged by 'how useful is this to the person promoting it?' 😒 Man, sometimes my faith in humanity is sorely tested...
Brings to mind the question of whether or not a man with no hands should be praised for not being a thief I've heard recently.
But I agree with you. Someone who donated money to those that need it shouldn't be no less praised or condemned for not rolling up their sleeves and physically taking part in whatever needs done either.
Help is help.
Did you respond with "Yes Mien Furhur!"?
What I have to my kids?"
In his case you should ask about that With Great Responsibility if he intends to pass that on to his kids as well. I don't like what that Damocles burden on them. That statement last chapter about No Power No responsibility means he's never considered the nuances of it.
Imagine a 10 year old spider kid with that mindset.
I know some people criticized that one Spider-Man movie where Ben never actually said those famous words but I like how he said it because it sounded like it was more nuanced than a hard rule.
 
Perhaps we're looking at different things. The first 11 parts of this continuity are numbered, at least in the threadmarks and in this post https://forum.questionablequesting....-justice-si-thread-fourteen.8938/post-2401948 which contains the list of parts for the previous round of entries in this continuity that I could find (all in Episode 132: Fleet Traction). That is why I asked if you'd meant to stop numbering them in this round (meaning the recent ones in Episode 154: Supnautica (part 2)) and not this part (i.e.: part 17).
There's really no specific reason for that. I started numbering these ones, someone pointed out that I didn't usually do that with this continuety so I changed it... And here we are.
 
Actually, yes. Franklin was one of those known Omega Level Mutants for forever. But I think recently it got retconned to not be so anymore, if memory serves; probably something about not wanting rights to the character to be mixed up, which ends up being a moot point considering it all ended up belonging to Disney anyway.

Yes and the retcon was hella stupid.

They stated that Franklin wanted to be a mutant, so he subconsciously used his reality altering powers to pretend to be a mutant.

Which ignores that as a reality warper, the easiest way for him to pretend to be a mutant would be to alter his DNA to turn himself into a mutant.

I don't mind retcons as a rule, but as a rule of thumb I want retcons to make things less stupid, not more.
 
Yes and the retcon was hella stupid.

They stated that Franklin wanted to be a mutant, so he subconsciously used his reality altering powers to pretend to be a mutant.

Which ignores that as a reality warper, the easiest way for him to pretend to be a mutant would be to alter his DNA to turn himself into a mutant.

I don't mind retcons as a rule, but as a rule of thumb I want retcons to make things less stupid, not more.

Hell, as a reality warper he could alter reality so he always was a mutant, or the definition of mutant always included him.
 
Supnautica (part 33) New
7th May 2013
14:54 GMT +2


"Behold. My kingdom."

I look around the savannah, and a Thomson's gazelle looks back for a moment before returning to grazing.

"Metaphorically, or..?"

"No. I em being quite literal." Dr. Balewa steps down off the rock he was standing on and sets off across the plain. "It has been thousands of years."

"Right, but…" I float after him. "You were a top tier magic user. Surely you could create something that would last?"

"Why would I?"

"Most people like the civilisation they grew up in. Doubly so if they're the ones who made it, as you did."

"So I should maintain it in its exact form forevah?"

"Well… With room for growth…" I scan through the ground, trying to see if I can find any archaeological remains. Not… Much. "So what happened?"

"I do not want you to confuse yourself. While I was eh skilled magician, any Atlantean student of today would best me."

I blink. "Really?"

"Did you think thet I had learned nothing in the thousands of years since then?"

"Sure, new skills, but you must have been… Better than that?"

"Modern thaumaturgy is a modern science. They learn things in school thet were unknowen to the greatest scholars of my youth."

"It was supposed to be a centre of magic learning."

"Yes." He smiles. "And we had a great deal to learn. But power…" His smile fades. "Power, thet we had."

He keeps walking, two gazelles pausing to observe his progress.

"Come! You have more questions."

I nod. "Kor was unique as a source of magic learning. What happened to it?"

"What do you think happened?"

"It didn't expand and take over the world… Or even the continent. There aren't… Myths or legends about the place in Africa, just other places that have a long history with magic. We're not standing in the middle of a giant-" Quick scan to check… "-crater here."

"And so?"

"Civil war?"

"Yes! Yes. Eh war without a victer." He stops and raises his right hand. "Ah. Yes. Here."

The air in front of us shimmers and a… A large.. building shimmers into-. No, it's an illusion. It looks like… Stone? Marble, white marble with strands of gold running through it. It's… Big… But not that big. And I see fountains, and that's notable in a place like this… But again, in absolute terms…

"Eh palace fit for eh retired American dentist."

"I think the dentist would want plumbing. So…"

"So. Eh civil war. But you must understand first how we taught. Would you like to guess?"

"Personal instruction?"

He nods happily. "Magicians from here and from elsewhere taught and learned from one another, end their students learned from them in turn. And how do you think that we kept records?"

Paper wasn't invented for thousands of years. Papyrus sheets..? But everything would have to be written individually… Clay tablets? Stone? Did they have slates to write on with chalk…

No, wait, magic.

"Some sort of arcane creature bound to your service?"

"Sometimes. Mostly, we did not. If they were worth teaching then they would simply remember eet."

He holds out his right hand and a… Walking stick appears, the wood straight and painted black, symbols carved in a spiral around the sides. He holds it up, running the fingers of his left hand over the carvings.

"This was as far as physical records went. Eh minor aid to memory." He turns around to face me. "End so, the civil war."

I close my eyes for a moment. "No written records, masters were competing for acolytes, and when they died there… Weren't any records. Because it was all in their heads."

"Those acolytes who survived lived with magic that was weaker then thet of their masters, but strong enough that they were welcomed wherever they travelled. But without a centre of learning, their knowledge nevah grew, only stagnated and decayed."

"And… What were you doing, while that was happening?"

"I went for eh walk." He shrugs. "I left the throne to my son. I did not intend to rule forevah. You know how I feel about things like thet."

"So how did Atlantis get involved?"

"Foreigners had no interest in who ruled Kor, only in what they could learn before returning home. I… Think thet they played up our knowledge to impress their countrymen."

"So..? It's all..? It's just you? You're the only special thing to come out of it?"

"No. No, of course not. You have noticed the power of my descendants. And the masters of Kor were strong. Powerful. But they allowed their pride to be their undoing."

He opens his right hand, and the staff floats for a moment before decaying into vapour. A moment later the image of the palace does the same.

"Perhaps thet is a lesson-. Ah."

He bows his head and turns back to where the palace image is fading to reveal… A man in a hide skirt, a necklace of fetishes around his neck and… Part of the right side of his body appears to be made of clay.

Dr. Balewa doesn't seem unduly troubled, but I don my armour. "You are dead, man of Kor. What business have you with the living?"

The animated corpse considers for a moment, then snarls and thrust his arms into the sky as the land leaps to respond!
 
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Is anyone else getting a 504 error or otherwise not able to follow this link?
Don't know why it doesn't work for you. It's fine for me.
Spinnerette-buttshot.webp

Edit: Okay, that was a wrestling match, but it should be there now.
 
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I'm reminded of Skyrim: you receive the blessing 'gift of charity' when you give money to a beggar, making it neither a gift nor charity. How is it charity if you're only doing it to serve your interests?

In this case (and the one you originally referenced) I think the good act is still good, however the implied moral quality of the person performing the deed is diminished, potentially greatly diminished, depending on whether they would otherwise perform such actions. The question of charity, for example, also requires a degree of sacrifice, so if the actor was being paid, profiting via PR, or giving only what for them is a negligible amount, by extension of their "charitable" work the organization's actions might count as charitable, but not theirs. Very much the point of "The Widow and the Two Mites / Copper Coins".

And even if they weren't being compensated, and their actions *were* charitable, the moral quality of their actions are still tainted due to the implied selfishness of "it wasn't an issue that was worth my time until I personally suffered from it". It's still a base and narrow pattern of thinking where they only care about something that they can view as an extension of themselves. It also speaks ill of their intellectual character, as that kind of thinking is deeply incurious and shows an avoidance towards analyzing whether your current understanding and experience clashes with your prior understanding of the world.

The only way to rise above these implications, to show moral growth, would be to extend their charitable work beyond that initial narrow band of interest.
 
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7th May 2013
14:54 GMT +2


"Behold. My kingdom."

I look around the savannah, and a Thomson's gazelle looks back for a moment before returning to grazing.
Yes, a very fine kingdom, Ozymandis. And to be fair, most signs of human civilisation rarely last more than a couple of thousand years. Only the largest and most cyclopean structures have lasted more than a couple of millennia.

"Metaphorically, or..?"

"No. I em being quite literal." Dr. Balewa steps down off the rock he was standing on and sets off across the plain. "It has been thousands of years."
Longer than most of recorded human history, yes. More than enough time for what remains to be reclaimed by the Earth.

"Right, but…" I float after him. "You were a top tier magic user. Surely you could create something that would last?"

"Why would I?"
It is in character for him to make something that only lasted a generation or two...

"Most people like the civilisation they grew up in. Doubly so if they're the ones who made it, as you did."

"So I should maintain it in its exact form forevah?"
And this is why. He's not a fan of cultural stasis. Cultures, civilisations, are living things that need to grow and evolve. Ionically that's gotten harder and harder as the world grows more informationally and economically connected...

"Well… With room for growth…" I scan through the ground, trying to see if I can find any archaeological remains. Not… Much. "So what happened?"

"I do not want you to confuse yourself. While I was eh skilled magician, any Atlantean student of today would best me."
I'm betting little more than a few long-buried foundations stones. Though archeologists have founded entire theoretical histories based on little more than that.

I blink. "Really?"

"Did you think thet I had learned nothing in the thousands of years since then?"
So the Nommo Balewa of those ancient days would not have been a spectacular magus. Merely the finest of a modest motley.

"Sure, new skills, but you must have been… Better than that?"

"Modern thaumaturgy is a modern science. They learn things in school thet were unknowen to the greatest scholars of my youth."
Things those scholars where just working out from first principles, yes. Just imagine how future scientists a few hundred years from now will look at our fumbling knowledge of physics.

"It was supposed to be a centre of magic learning."

"Yes." He smiles. "And we had a great deal to learn. But power…" His smiles fades. "Power, thet we had."
And a relevant quote from Kill Six Billion Demons. I imagine some of those early magicians were like that... Incredible power, often used as subtly as a rock in an early man's hand.

He keeps walking, two gazelle's pausing to observe his progress.

"Come! You have more questions."

I nod. "Kor was unique as a source of magic learning. What happened to it?"
I mean, you get that many big egos of magic-users in one place...

"What do you think happened?"

"It didn't expand and take over the world… Or even the continent. There aren't… Myths or legends about the place in Africa, just other places that have a long history with magic. We're not standing in the middle of a giant-" Quick scan to check… "-crater here."
Basically forgotten, except in the histories of places like Atlantis. Just how Nommo wanted it, I bet.

"And so?"

"Civil war?"

"Yes! Yes. Eh war without a victer." He stops and raises his right hand. "Ah. Yes. Here."
Human ego and avarice, pulling it apart at the seams. A tale repeated throughout history, though not so comprehensively, I suspect.

The air in front of us shimmers and a… A large.. building shimmers into-. No, it's an illusion. It looks like… Stone? Marble, white marble with strands of gold running through it. It's… Big… But not that big. And I see fountains, and that's notable in a place like this… But again, in absolute terms…
And most of you probably pictured a Greek temple, didn't you? I imagine it was more like Great Zimbabwe, a modest two-storey building. Fine but not monolithic.

"Eh palace fit for eh retired American dentist."

"I think the dentist would want plumbing. So…"
That's what magic is for.

"So. Eh civil war. But you must understand first how we taught. Would you like to guess?"

"Personal instruction?"
It makes sense. In such antiquarin times, the passing of knowledge would have been master to apprentice.

He nods happily. "Magicians from here and from elsewhere taught and learned from one another, end their students learned from them in turn. And how do you think that we kept records?"

Paper wasn't invented for thousands of years. Papyrus sheets..? But everything would have to be written individually… Clay tablets? Stone? Did they have slates to write on with chalk…
You assume they had writing, OL? Perhaps in some form, but over so long a time... What would survive?

No, wait, magic.

"Some sort of arcane creature bound to your service?"
I can't imagine they stuck around long after their 'masters' died off.

"Sometimes. Mostly, we did not. If they were worth teaching then they would simply remember eet."

He holds out his right hand and a… Walking stick appears, the wood straight and painted black, symbols carved in a spiral around the sides. He holds it up, running the fingers of his left hand over the carvings.
Much like ancient storytelling. Ancient storytellers would have learnt by rote, with minimal prompting. Whole epics, learnt chapter by chapter and recited from formula and mnemonics with adaption as needed for their audience.

"This was as far as physical records went. Eh minor aid to memory." He turns around to face me. "End so, the civil war."

I close my eyes for a moment. "No written records, masters were competing for acolytes, and when they died there… Weren't any records. Because it was all in their heads."
A single master of his craft might take decades of invention and learning to the grave with him. Especially if they never taught an apprentice...

"Those acolytes who survived lived with magic that was weaker then thet of their masters, but strong enough that they were welcomed wherever they travelled. But without a centre of learning, their knowledge nevah grew, only stagnated and decayed."

"And… What were you doing, while that was happening?"
All that knowledge, all those experiences, lost like tears in rain. Only to be rediscovered centuries later by some clever fellow or another. Only to be lost again, then relearned, until someone wrote stuff down.

"I went for eh walk." He shrugs. "I left the throne to my son. I did not intend to rule forevah. You know how I feel about things like thet."

"So how did Atlantis get involved?"
That's entirely in character for Nommo, really...

"Foreigners had no interest in who ruled Kor, only in what they could learn before returning home. I… Think thet they played up our knowledge to impress their countrymen."

"So..? It's all..? It's just you? You're the only special thing to come out of it?"
OL, haven't you been following the threads? What Nommo's kingdom knew spread like seeds through the world.

"No. No, of course not. You have noticed the power of my descendants. And the masters of Kor were strong. Powerful. But they allowed their pride to be their undoing."

He opens his right hand, and the staff floats for a moment before decaying into vapour. A moment later the image of the palace does the same.
Such is human nature, to one who's seen it for ten thousand years or more. I bet he considers the modern world to be a temporary thing, fated to disappear after some cataclysm or another... Just the problem of making sure the people survive the collapse, hence his membership in the league.

"Perhaps thet is a lesson-. Ah."

He bows his head and turns back to where the palace image is fading to reveal… A man in a hide skirt, a necklace of fetishes around his neck and… Part of the right side of his body appears to be made of clay.
...That's not part of his projection, is it?

Dr. Balewa doesn't seem unduly troubled, but I don my armour. "You are dead, man of Kor. What business have you with the living?"

The animated corpse considers for a moment, then snarls and thrust his arms into the sky as the land leaps to respond!
Ah, another clay corpse/clone? This suggests their existence isn't tied to Atlantis alone.

Well, whoever was behind this seems to have made a mistake, tipping their hand like this. Now the heroes can tell this phenomenon isn't bound to Atlantis alone. Hmm... Wasn't there someone else who could manipulate earth and clay and magic alike? We never did find what happened to Jarharpur during and after the Anti-Life, did we?

He keeps walking, two gazelle's pausing to observe his progress.
He keeps walking, two gazelles pausing to observe his progress.
...but strong enough that there were welcomed...
...but strong enough that they were welcomed...
He opens his right had, and the staff floats...
He opens his right hand, and the staff floats...
 
The spirit of London (Hellraiser) doesn't possess a human, it just has a human body sometimes. It is if a different ilk than Uncle Sam, but the difference is like apes and humans, rather than plants and animals. Could the spirit of Kor have summoned up this spirit? Magical power could have affected the timeline and made it develop early. The subsequent civil war...
 

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