With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

Seeing as Scott Free, Barda, and Canis are on Earth, they'd recognize Glorious Godfrey at first sight.

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New Gods do have ways to disguise themselves.

Orion uses such technology himself.

He basically looks like a flesh-colored version of Darkseid.

 

[Signaller]

I expect that between the months of antilife culling and the following white light exposure fixing the survivors would have changed social dynamics enough that the vast majority of people no longer have (present) things they'd need to worry about being made public?

Of course, neither of those are permanent fixes, but rates of criminality (or propensity of same) and socially maladaptive thought processes should be miniscule for at least the next 12-15 years. So until that changes back to what we'd call normal, suspension of constitutional rights designed to protect the average person might actually be reasonable.

Do we have numbers of the pre- and post-antilife planetary population? I'd imagine a drop of at least a few hundred million.

 

[Duke Long]

Ah, a news crew. I'm a little surprised that it took this long, but with… Things being what they are, advertising revenue is way down. Private broadcast television has mostly died off, leaving public television and internet-based services, though neither industries are exactly in a healthy state. The air time that's left is so cheap that even I'm getting sick of my chocolate advert monopolising the airwaves. I think… I think the League is funding information broadcasts of some sort, but I didn't look into it beyond confirming that it's happening. Who is-?

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'industry is'

Much like a gun, every microphone and camera are live until it's confirmed otherwise.

"Ms. Grant. How may I be of service?"

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'is'

"The Genomorph Collective has kindly leant a brood of g-gnomes to the Hub City Police Department. It shouldn't be too difficult to find them."

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'lent'

"Yes, because we discovered genetics. Suddenly it was possible to guarantee that a particular person was in a particular place. That a.. semen sample, say, came from a particular person. But if they'd had a trial based on witness testimony and the.. limited physical evidence that was available at the time and the accused had been acquitted… Even if now you could prove with complete certainty that they were guilty with a genetic match, you couldn't try them again. So, hooray for not having a constitution, a Bill went through Parliament which allowed the Court of Appeal to allow new trials where the prosecution had significant new evidence, like genetic test that didn't exist at the time of the original trial and so couldn't have been used."

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'genetic tests'
or
'a genetic test'

She nods. "On that note, have you had any input into the Bill being put before Congress relating to the Justice League reconstruction efforts?"

"I didn't even know there was one. Do you have the draft text with you?"

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I'm guessing this will be the thing that caused future Oh El to complain. Looking forward to seeing how bad it is.

 

[Sockmonkey]

The right against self-incrimination exists for more reasons than just "We can't be sure", there's a fundamental power imbalance between any one actor and the state, and part of the fifth amendment in criminal cases is that -you can't make adverse inferences if someone chooses not to self-incriminate-. You can't use it against them.

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This right here. Even things that are technically morally acceptable can still be used by the state to bully or coerce people, hence why the law should err on the side of caution when possible.

 

[BR549]

I descend through the air, the skivvy holding the kite reeling it in now that it's job is done.

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I'm guessing this is a Britishism for an intern or gofer. Here in the Colonies, 'skivvies' is a (generally older?) slang term for underpants.

 

[PJ739]

I can somehow hear the alarm of the Justice league going off when they hear Paul got interviewed

 

[Ngamer11]

I'm pretty sure most reporters who're kept in the loop know OL is a goldmine for soundbites and statements that will capture the attention of the masses.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'industry is'

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I think that one's okay. He's refering to public television and internet services as two separate industries.

'is'
'lent'
'genetic tests'
or
'a genetic test'

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Thank you, corrected.

I'm guessing this is a Britishism for an intern or gofer. Here in the Colonies, 'skivvies' is a (generally older?) slang term for underpants.

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[Nashk]

Very much getting police state "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" feelings from this most recent chapter. The truth spell I could at least feel wouldn't be bad, as long as it just makes you incapable of lying. If it forces you to tell the truth, I can definitely see some problems. Like if you can't just go "I plead the fifth" then yeah, that's going to encounter some issues as well.

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And it brings up so many more headaches and questions.

What if during the scan the person is innocent of the crime you are looking for, but is guilty of another crime?

"Thank you for the scan, you are not the murderer but unfortunately you smoke weed, so off to jail with you."

How do they know the scan will only focus on the investigation? If other things come up will the police have discretion on what they pursue? So much potential abuse here.

 

[Wivk]

I am fine with mandatory truth compulsions... for every single member of government at any level, including non elected employees of the bureaucracy. We can have them be the test case.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I am fine with mandatory truth compulsions... for every single member of government at any level, including non elected employees of the bureaucracy. We can have them be the test case.

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Don't forget the drugs tests!

The pertinent point here being that several members of the Justice League have spoken under the influence of the Lasso of Truth, and they've all spoken to Diana at least once. They can be reasonably confident that they're all committed to the cause and working towards the same ends. That isn't the case for other institutions.

And it brings up so many more headaches and questions.

What if during the scan the person is innocent of the crime you are looking for, but is guilty of another crime?

"Thank you for the scan, you are not the murderer but unfortunately you smoke weed, so off to jail with you."

How do they know the scan will only focus on the investigation? If other things come up will the police have discretion on what they pursue? So much potential abuse here.

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Hm. Well, that depends. G-gnomes aren't that clever. If they're told to look for a particular thing, that's all they're going to look for. They might pick up some very similar things, but that's about it.

If a person volunteered to have their mind read, then I suspect that it would be treated like someone saying 'my alibi is that I was smoking dope with my buds' during an interrogation. Investigating that as a new crime would be fine.

However, it wouldn't be sufficient for a conviction by itself if the police/judge were competent because people remember things wrongly all the time. They would have to actually gather physical evidence and witness testimony to prove what actually happened.

I believe that when search warrants are issued, if the forensics team find something just outside of the bounds of the warrant or relating to another crime, that's generally considered perfectly acceptable.

 

[CTrees]

Can't help but feel like this is the time for one of the Green Lanterns to have a chat with OL about why Sinestro had his green ring taken away and why, while this is a different start to what happened on Korugar, it's still a concerning direction for a Lantern to be pushing things. And how, in this context, the non-hostile relationship between OL and Sinestro might be a further point of concern for the Green Lantern Corps.

 

[Duke Long]

I think that one's okay. He's refering to public television and internet services as two separate industries.

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I understand, but 'neither' is singular. It should always be 'neither is', never 'neither are'.
At least, I'm pretty sure.

 

[Azzy Rael]

The problem with E-light imbalance is shown here. Paul is stuck going full IQ low EQ, because even if he's Orange Enlightened, thought patterns can become habits- and he's used to thinking positive Orange. Unless he gets full spectrum enlightenment, his desire to 'make things better' will get ahead of him.

 

[Zig]

New Gods do have ways to disguise themselves.

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This actually goes double for Young Justice. Zoat may not use it, but New Gods can essentially make fully human (and presumably other species) splitoffs of themselves.

 

[Ngamer11]

The problem with E-light imbalance is shown here. Paul is stuck going full IQ low EQ, because even if he's Orange Enlightened, thought patterns can become habits- and he's used to thinking positive Orange. Unless he gets full spectrum enlightenment, his desire to 'make things better' will get ahead of him.

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I think it's more that he knows on an intellectual level that what he says may be taken the wrong way. However, he only cares about it if it will immediately affect something he cares about. After all, the Justice League is the one leading the charge in fixing the world; he's just there to do his part. If the people of the world want to whine and moan about how it's done, Paul will just push on through until someone he actually respects tells him an alternative way things can be done.

 

[john doe 777]

I would say the stop people from lying might be bad because it infringes on right to privacy and or it could be abused to make someone tell the wrong thing.

 

[Valint]

OL seems to be making the case for a Police State. With the 'if you have nothing to hide' attitude. Sure, the G-gnomes might not care what they see, but people do not want deepest thoughts plumed by anything, or else an Amendment for freedom of thoughts might have to be introduced.

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Yes? I mean, at its heart, the superhero paradigm is about people declaring themselves righteous enough not to be bound by laws in their crusade to make society safe.

At the point where you think that masked vigilantes breaking into offices to investigate and dangling people off of buildings to interrogate them is a good thing, you've pretty much blown way past the idea that constitutional rights (or, really, any level of accountability) is worth preserving at the cost of letting crime go unpunished.

There's a reason that superhero comics are pretty firmly in "don't think about it too hard" territory, and why any comic storyline that introduces government oversight of superheroes has to do it in the stupidest way possible, because if they don't, it will become pretty glaring that the entire premise of the genre is deeply incompatible with the kind of society most people would actually want.

 

[PDV]

I believe that when search warrants are issued, if the forensics team find something just outside of the bounds of the warrant or relating to another crime, that's generally considered perfectly acceptable.

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Normal, yes. Acceptable, no, except to cops and prosecutors. Because it's frequently used to get around the need for reasonable suspicion of significant crimes by finding a pretext to investigate a minor crime and using that as an excuse to go fishing for evidence for a greater one.

 

[Bud-E]

Where do the genomorphs live? Do they have their own town like in cannon?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Normal, yes. Acceptable, no, except to cops and prosecutors. Because it's frequently used to get around the need for reasonable suspicion of significant crimes by finding a pretext to investigate a minor crime and using that as an excuse to go fishing for evidence for a greater one.

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No, I read an article a few years ago where they were saying... There's a particular form of words used in search warrants that explicitly makes it okay to find things around the target or relating to another crime. I can't remember what the proper term is now.

Possibly related summary here.

Where do the genomorphs live? Do they have their own town like in cannon?

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They mostly live in Cadmus. That place was huge. Making their own human-seeming town was one of the many stupid things that happened in canon. It was almost like they realised that they'd gone six years and an entire series without mentioning them after showing them getting gassed, and suddenly went 'ooooh'.

 

[RoninSword]

They mostly live in Cadmus. That place was huge. Making their own human-seeming town was one of the many stupid things that happened in canon. It was almost like they realised that they'd gone six years and an entire series without mentioning them after showing them getting gassed, and suddenly went 'ooooh'.

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Didn't they make a genomorph city in renegades timeline?

 

[Vaermina]

If it's abused like the stop-and-frisk BS then it'd probably be bad. But if it's based on a legitimate investigation and you can still refuse I don't see a problem.

As stated, refusing would make you look guilty and probably make the investigation focus a bit more on you; but if you're innocent and circumstances made you be part of the investigation, you concede to a brief scan to see if you're actually related to the crime and that's it. Your innocence is proven and you get out of the investigation fairly quick. At least that's how I see it but I'm not knowledgeable about law and stuff, so what do I know.

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General reminder that telepath's only pick up what a person believes is true. That's why it was banned prior to this.

The problem with E-light imbalance is shown here. Paul is stuck going full IQ low EQ, because even if he's Orange Enlightened, thought patterns can become habits- and he's used to thinking positive Orange. Unless he gets full spectrum enlightenment, his desire to 'make things better' will get ahead of him.

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Pretty much, the only really impressive thing in all this is that people are still dillydallying about preforming an intervention.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Didn't they make a genomorph city in renegades timeline?

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Not that I remember, though there are genomorphs living in more places there.

 

[Ngamer11]

Not that I remember, though there are genomorphs living in more places there.

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Genomorph City was shown in Episode 24: Preparation. I also remember genomorphs being moved to Tamaran, though I don't remember what episode that was in.

 

[ShadowScion626]

Hmmm. I just had a thought. The New Gods of Apoklips aren't necessarily evil by nature, with a few exceptions like Granny Goodness. They are mostly evil because Darkseid has spent eons torturing them in every way possible to twist them and make them cruel and sadistic, even before he obtained the Anti-Life.

Since the White Light Entity essentially acted as a conduit for the Life Equation, the Anti-Lifes opposite, and was able to break the Anti-Lifes effects on the entire Earth and mostly restore people to semi-healthy states, what would it do to Apoklipians exposed to it, like Gordon Godrey who was potentially still on Earth when it all went down with Anti-Life and the Life.

I have no illusions that it would fully fix their issues, countless eons of torture don't just disappear like that, but could it potentially be a start to turning them into something better? If, for example, Gordon Godrey got hit with the Life Equation along with everyone else on Earth, could it act like a detox session for his soul, purging the Anti-life from him just a little?

If he didn't return to Apoklips or be summoned by Darkseid, immediately getting re-exposed to Anti-Life, could he potentially get cured of it, either naturally due to his New God nature fighting it off over time or with the help of New Genesis if Barda, Scott, or another New God found him in his detoxed and struggling state and decided to have pity on him and take him to High Father to try and help him?

I'm really curious as to how Life Equation Exposure would affect long-term affectees of the Anti-Life, especially far more metaphysical ones like New Gods.

 

[Rebu]

At the point where you think that masked vigilantes breaking into offices to investigate and dangling people off of buildings to interrogate them is a good thing, you've pretty much blown way past the idea that constitutional rights (or, really, any level of accountability) is worth preserving at the cost of letting crime go unpunished.

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Counterpoint: Superman doesn't wear a mask or do any of that stuff, generally. He shows up and acts like a good Samaritan.

Who happens to have superpowers.

That's a lot closer to the pop culture superhero archetype.

Batman is rather an outlier. Not really representative of the average superhero. He's usually held as an archetype of the edgy anti-hero.

And even then, in one or two continuities, he was a duly deputized cop. In fact, CW's Green Arrow eventually went the same way.

Actually, haven't most modern versions held that Gotham is so absurdly corrupt that working outside the rules is the best anyone can do to get justice?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Genomorph City was shown in Episode 24: Preparation. I also remember genomorphs being moved to Tamaran, though I don't remember what episode that was in.

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That's not a city so much as a cavern 'escaped' genomorphs were living in. A team of genomorphs were sent to a continent on Tamaran that had been rendered uninhabitable as part of the reclamation effort, but they mostly go where the job takes them.

Hmmm. I just had a thought. The New Gods of Apoklips aren't necessarily evil by nature, with a few exceptions like Granny Goodness. They are mostly evil because Darkseid has spent eons torturing them in every way possible to twist them and make them cruel and sadistic, even before he obtained the Anti-Life.

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They weren't exactly nice under Queen Heggra either.

Since the White Light Entity essentially acted as a conduit for the Life Equation, the Anti-Lifes opposite, and was able to break the Anti-Lifes effects on the entire Earth and mostly restore people to semi-healthy states, what would it do to Apoklipians exposed to it, like Gordon Godrey who was potentially still on Earth when it all went down with Anti-Life and the Life.

I have no illusions that it would fully fix their issues, countless eons of torture don't just disappear like that, but could it potentially be a start to turning them into something better? If, for example, Gordon Godrey got hit with the Life Equation along with everyone else on Earth, could it act like a detox session for his soul, purging the Anti-life from him just a little?

If he didn't return to Apoklips or be summoned by Darkseid, immediately getting re-exposed to Anti-Life, could he potentially get cured of it, either naturally due to his New God nature fighting it off over time or with the help of New Genesis if Barda, Scott, or another New God found him in his detoxed and struggling state and decided to have pity on him and take him to High Father to try and help him?

I'm really curious as to how Life Equation Exposure would affect long-term affectees of the Anti-Life, especially far more metaphysical ones like New Gods.

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Depends. Lowlies would mostly hate it and try getting back to how they were as fast as possible. A handful might have a revelation, and Darkseid would watch them closely to see what he could learn.

For the Elite, it's like putting a bandage around a bone that's healed crocked: too little too late.