With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

"used"

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Cuchulin]

'Pre-Columbian,' while accurate, is understating the issue a bit. She's from about 1000 BCE, so nearly 2,500 years before Columbus visited the Caribbean. Her whole civilization may have left little to no evidence in the archaeological record.

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She was likely from one of the older Mound Builder Civilizations as they go back to about 3,500 BCE. I remember hearing about one that had more or less domesticated a type of Goosefoot only to fully abandon it once Maize made it to North America.

 

[Shadowj6480]

She looks at me askance. "Then do you think that maybe members of the tiny self-appointed unaccountable minority aren't the right people to talk to?"

10th July 2013
07:02 GMT -5

I knock on the window, and the man staring at the chessboard looks around.

"Mister Luthor? Do you have a minute?"

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I...

I mean. I guess Luthor isn't an unaccountable minority anymore. Kind of. But it's very bold to ask a guy who would almost certainly set himself up as a self-appointed minority if given the chance.

Also he worked with The Light who...isn't that basically what their goal was as well? Like am I wrong about that?

So. I mean. Yeah.

Genuinely interested where this goes, because you do a wonderful job having your SI get caught off-guard by things or surprised or proven to be going about things wrong/illogically.

 

[Meneth]

Lex Luthor has previously worked towards the goal of ending Humanity's reliance on superpowered beings. He would, at least, have an interesting perspective.

 

[Old Knife]

I knock on the window, and the man staring at the chessboard looks around.

"Mister Luthor? Do you have a minute?"

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Mr. Luthor. How would you like to be the offical watchdog/administrator of the Justice League while it's fixing the earth?
*Luthor has received his deepest wish and feels a deep desire to kiss santa clause*

 

[Vaermina]

10th July 2013
07:02 GMT -5

I knock on the window, and the man staring at the chessboard looks around.

"Mister Luthor? Do you have a minute?"

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Luthor would be fighting this tooth and nail if he knew.

 

[BR549]

And despite by brother's fondness for her, I would not trust Angelica Blaze with it either."

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'my brother's'

 

[Bigking321]

I genuinely don't get what Paul is trying to accomplish here.

And if this is a bill being publicly discussed by countries all over the world then Lex obviously already knows about it and is taking it into account of whatever plans.

Paul going to him just gives Lex the potential ability to try and manipulate Paul for his advantage.

 

[Lord Ernest]

Wait, how is talking it with Luthor a good idea? It feels like literally asking for the Light to meddle with this situation and that's never a good thing. Those guys can spout whatever high-minded rhetoric they want but they're supervillains, doing supervillain things and behaving in supervillain ways.

To help an old lady cross the street they would destroy the street, kidnapp the lady's family and mind-control the old lady. Or, alternatively, conquer the country to allow old ladies to cross the street but forget about the original reason while doing said conquering.

Ted Kord isn't a superhero, is he? So why not him? What about some of his other normal acquaintances? Worse option would be asking Constantine for his opinion (because my impression is that he would be against this as well), but while involving John is generally a bad idea, at least he isn't a literal supervillain.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

10th July 2013
09:33 GMT +2

"… This is a surrender."

Watching Dawn go through the binder containing the British version of the Bill has been interesting. She clearly isn't used to handling paper, but she's not stupid and worked out how to do so easily enough. It puzzled me at first that she hadn't already gotten used to that, but then I realised… They'd have been doing this on computer, wouldn't they? Keyboard and touch screens. I'm showing my age by transmuting paper copies to read in physical space and pens to make notes with.

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Well, she definitely provided a distinct perceptive on it. And interesting that they just defaulted to digital-age methods with her. I suppose it's a result of their age, preferring screens over paper. And Beryl would naturally prefer computers to old-fashioned, less efficient hand-writing.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Milk floats. Of all the things to trip up over.

Beryl cocks her head to the side. She's making notes on her personal computer, with only reference numbers on the document itself. "How?"

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...Not sure what the Milk Floats were about. An indicator of resource management failures, maybe? Edit: Ah, right, he still hides his age...

Dawn shrugs moodily. It's fairly obvious that she thinks Beryl bit her tongue to say 'how' rather than something more derogatory. She didn't, of course, and since she didn't Dawn probably isn't going to snap at her.

"They are giving all power to the… Justice League. Supreme power. They control only the things that the Justice League doesn't want to control. The only time a tribe does that is when they are defeated and wish to avoid being destroyed." She looks us each in the eyes for a moment, continuing only when we don't respond negatively. "This is a lot of words to do that. Perhaps they want to pretend that it is not what they are doing."

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...Huh. When you consider it that way, it is. The governments floating these proposals are basically handing over a measure of their national authority to the League, after all. Perhaps those in charge don't even realise they're doing it that way...

I make a point of looking at Beryl and raising my eyebrows.

"I'm inclined to agree. I just can't work out why."

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Ah, that 'See, see? I'm right, aren't I?' poke.

Beryl shakes her head. "They can undo it with a vote in parliament. It's not a surrender when one side can just vote to undo it."

"You mean like Britain could leave the European Union with a simple vote in parliament? Because I think it would actually be a lot more complicated than that."

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And before you know it, it'll just be the way things are, and no-one will want to undo it.

"Because we've been in the E.U. for decades. The Justice League's… It's only been five months. We're not as bound up in the League's reconstruction project."

"But Batman will have a plan, won't he?" I tap my binder. "He wouldn't have moved this forwards unless he had something in mind for it."

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Batman always has a plan. He may not be at the memetic 'Prep-time Bat-god' level, but he's not an idiot, and with a Power Ring, planning gets a lot easier.

She nods slowly. "Okay, so… He has a global plan. Most places go along with it, and the League… They'd stop operating anywhere that wasn't."

"No, but their reconstruction work would. Carrot and stick. 'Here's what we can do when we fight crime for you, imagine what we could do with more power'. And it's not like governments in any democratic countries have a solid grip on power. If all the opposition has to do is say 'we support the Justice League's reconstruct efforts more' then they'll almost certainly win, regardless of other factors."

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Plus the whole 'supporting the world economy' through their medallion currency, too. Imagine if they withdrew that support from a country. It'd reconsider in short order, all right.

She thinks for a moment, then reluctantly nods. "And authoritarian countries… They either don't need it…" She pointedly looks around. "Or they'll make a deal so they don't get overthrown and handle any problems later."

"Yes. You'll note how-."

"China's the most cooperative it's ever been, yeah I spotted that."

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Didn't most of the old party leadership get 'dealt with' during the Anti-Life? I can see fresh blood being more reasonable.

China's super functionaries are certainly capable fighters, but none of them have the sort of utility that Lanterns do. Even Accomplished Perfect Physician can't replace a failing transportation infrastructure, and… Last time I saw him, he was… Thinking about straining the leash.

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That could be troublesome. If not for the League, then for the Party.

It's not like he likes the system that put him in a desert prison for life. And the Party's ability to yank his chain is severely curtailed at present, and he's got an interest in seeing that it stays that way. On the face of it the only body that could possibly threaten Party control is the army, but it turns out that with one thing and another there's enough local discontent that a local Party versus central Party division is actually fairly exploitable.

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"The land, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide. Thus it has ever been." It held true long ago, it holds true here. Or, to put it more charmingly, 'China's whole again! Then it broke again.'

I… I've been keeping my nose out of that.

"But you don't think it's a surrender."

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Following the Sicilian's advice, eh? Never get involved in a land war in Asia (whether military or ideological.)

"No. Most countries have laws to grant governments emergency power in emergencies. Getting global trade up to.. what it was, is going to take at least two years. Getting it running alright is going to take a year, even with proper organisation. And global trade… It's the result of hundreds of years of traditions and treaties. If we want to do something radical to fix it, everyone's got to agree on who's going to do it and let them. They can change things afterwards if they don't like it."

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Yeah, it's been a delicately balanced Jenga game all this time. And then Mannheim came in looking to play Daruma otoshi...

"Except they won't, because-."

"Then what's the problem? If they don't want to… So what?"

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...The League ends up ruling the world, albeit through a polite facade.

Hm.

I pause for a moment, making a point of relaxing. Beryl's eyes go back to her computer.

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Ah, the drawback of the young. They can't easily see the drawbacks of power and responsibility. Not until they've experienced them for themselves.

"Has one of your plans been turned down?"

"Not a.. plan. I just had a few ideas that could help. And some got accepted."

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Well, that's good. Or is it? the government taking suggestions from a teenage hero, even one with a reputation for intelligence and analytical talent? Little suspicious.

"And your superpower is systemic analysis, meaning that you're literally the best person to do the job."

"I'm the best person. That doesn't make me better than everyone else put together. Osiris?"

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Yeah, even she feels odd about it, doesn't she?

"My brother will not sign this."

Beryl and I look at each other. "I don't think either of us thought he would."

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The benefit of being a dictator (In the classical sense, not the modern assholes.) Even if Kahndaq still has a parliament or the like, they probably acknowledge his suggestions as if they were already law.

Amon looks slightly nonplussed. "And Batman has not asked him to."

Beryl nods, shrugging. "Batman's not stupid. He's not going to ask someone who is never going to say 'yes'. Kahndaq's pretty self-sufficient, doesn't really need reconstruction aid and Adom's super-popular."

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And the wisdom of Zehuti would tell him instantly that this proposal probably isn't the best idea.

"How are you doing for raw materials?"

"My sister is surveying our new lands. Their former rulers were… Not efficient. They often just handed out contracts to foreign companies and let them do what they liked."

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Ah. and no doubt collected very big 'gifts' for doing so, I'll wager.

"How do you mean?"

"Destroying farms, despoiling rivers, exiling local people from their homes and murdering anyone who resisted. And they were not charged for what they took, only for the extraction rights to an area. The government was not being paid anything like what it should have been."

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Sounds like the worst kind of corporate profit-driven malfeasance... Just the sort of thing to spawn rebels and heroes.

"Even if all the corrupt members of government had wanted to do is stuff their Swiss bank accounts, they could have gotten more money even without the upfront bribes if they had been more attentive and professional. Let that be a lesson to all."

Amon looks at me for a moment, and then nods. "Ah, yes. But the important part is that soon we will have autarky. Even our tourists prefer to travel to other countries in the Middle East. There would be no point in us taking part in Batman's scheme."

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Though as long as they don't go against the new world order, they'll be just fine. That's the vibe I'm getting...

"Okay, but what do you think about it in itself?"

"I would trust my brother with this authority, but he is already Kahndaq's ruler. Mister Atom has improved a great deal since he first fought Captain Marvel, but he is still inhuman. I do not trust him with this power. And despite my brother's fondness for her, I would not trust Angelica Blaze with it either."

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Having divine guidance probably does help keep to a righteous path. Rather than cold logic or self-interest filtered through heavenly synergies.

Beryl shakes her head. "No, I don't think you're right about her. I'd be more worried about Rocket Red getting leaned on by his government. But as long as that didn't happen and everything needed to get signed off by Batman…"

"How about a sunset clause? Given everything that's going on, I doubt that even Batman could set up a parallel world government in six months."

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But is that included in the text? Some of the countries are on the verge of ratifying this, tight? Bit late to go changing it up now...

She frowns at me. "You know why I'm for it. How come you're so against it?"

I shrug. "Because it's fundamentally elitist, putting responsibility for the destiny of humanity in the hands of a tiny self-appointed unaccountable minority. Even if we could be completely relied upon to do the right thing with it, I don't think that's healthy for our species."

She looks at me askance. "Then do you think that maybe members of the tiny self-appointed unaccountable minority aren't the right people to talk to?"

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Well, it's either the Superheroes, or...

10th July 2013
07:02 GMT -5

I knock on the window, and the man staring at the chessboard looks around.

"Mister Luthor? Do you have a minute?"

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...The Supervillains. Oh, joy.

Great, from one extreme to the other. Justice League and Light. I'm amazed they haven't been poking their nose in yet. Are they really keeping that low a profile since the White Light event? Or are some of them sitting around rethinking their lives? And yet, getting their attention does seem like a good counter to whatever brought this trash around. After all, the Light wouldn't stand for this... Unless it was in their favour.

 

[Gazing Eye]

This feels like Mr bullshit...

 

[KyleDaScourge]

On the one hand, I'm curious to see where this conversation with Luthor goes...

On the other, the thing to be doing here is 100% "go talk about it with Batman and maybe Green Arrow and Blue Lantern" and 100% NOT "go talk to Lex fuckmothering Luthor."

 

[Neruz]

This is actually one of those situations where Luthor would have valuable input. You don't want to just do whatever he says of course, but his opinion on the subject would likely be useful even if only from the perspective of analyzing the situation.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'my brother's'

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Thank you, corrected.

...Not sure what the Milk Floats were about. An indicator of resource management failures, maybe?

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When I was a child, milk deliveries were still a common thing in most places. When Berly was a child, they'd already stopped just about everywhere. He risked hinting at his true age.

 

[Old Knife]

Wait, how is talking it with Luthor a good idea? It feels like literally asking for the Light to meddle with this situation and that's never a good thing. .

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Lurhor runs counter to justice league. If he can oppose what they're doing, then he can stop them from gaining too much power.

He actively wants them gone because people something something bootstraps.

 

[Duke Long]

I'm showing my age by transmuting paper copies to read in physical space and pens to make notes with.

Milk floats. Of all the things to trip up over.

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I had completely forgotten that he was trying to hide his age. He even said earlier that Beryl might be too young to have watched a show, when I think he's supposed to be less than a decade older than her (I'm not sure exactly because I have no real idea of Beryl's age). He's really not doing a great job, haha. But I suppose it's such a bizarre thing that he can afford to be a bit suspicious without being caught.

"Even if all the corrupt members of government had wanted to do is stuff their Swiss bank accounts, they could have gotten more money even without the upfront bribes if they had been more attentive and professional. Let that be a lesson to all."

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I suppose maybe the reason is that they preferred to spend more time on enjoying the wealth and power they already had rather than accumulating even more? But stupidity is always a possibility. Or foreign pressure.

"Mister Luthor? Do you have a minute?"

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This sort of legislation is perhaps what the Light dread most. At least if you look at the ideology they supposedly uphold, rather than the fact that they're mostly just selfish assholes in it for themselves. I'm sure they're working hard to fight against this. Except Boss Smiley, maybe. But he might be worried that the Justice League will genuinely do a good job and won't exploit their power, in which case I imagine he'd hate it.

 

[Lord Ernest]

Lurhor runs counter to justice league. If he can oppose what they're doing, then he can stop them from gaining too much power.

He actively wants them gone because people something something bootstraps.

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By that logic, does that mean that in Injustice people should have gone to Darkseid for help in stopping Superman and co? I can't see it.

 

[WereDragon]

10th July 2013
07:02 GMT -5

I knock on the window, and the man staring at the chessboard looks around.

"Mister Luthor? Do you have a minute?"

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So instead of asking Batman what the actual plan is, or speaking to one of the multiple hyper-intelligences that his Lantern corps has access to… he goes and asks one of the most self-destructively evil people on the planet for advice.

 

[lancelot]

I knock on the window, and the man staring at the chessboard looks around.

"Mister Luthor? Do you have a minute?"

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He needs to stop being a fucking pussy and confront Bruce.

 

[Steelplaza]

Lex Luthor has previously worked towards the goal of ending Humanity's reliance on superpowered beings.

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How exactly has he worked towards that goal? I mean, I suppose "killing a superpowered being" is a way of ending reliance on the specific superpowered being you've killed, but-