With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[BR549]

"The Controllers approved this?"

"The Controllers like order. And they don't like it when pissant primitive would-be empires decide to make everyone's life difficult."

"Then they are enemies of Thanagar."

"Oh, please declare war on the Controllers. It will make my life much simpler."

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...and if this happens to get out, well.

The Controllers overall will ignore the squawkings of the annoying primtive bird-people.

Hinon will laugh and get back to work.

...the Thanagarians, on the other hand? The people up top who know what the Controllers actually are and are capable of?

Once they finish changing their suddenly brown pants, anyway:

"...yes, Shayera Hol. By all means. Do threaten that we will go to war with the people who are of the same species as the Guardians of the Universe, who have all of the Guardians' knowledge and abilities, and who split with the Guardians because they felt that the Guardians of the Universe were being too hands-off."

 

[Duke Long]

Actually, is singularity projector the best brute force option Paul has outside direct Ophidian summoning?

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I think it probably is if it works, but since it is relatively easy to block or deflect I think that in practice his best brute force against foes with sufficient esoteric defences might be basic orange destruction pulses.

 

[Lurking Shade]

I'm not sure where you're getting this from?

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I also stumbled on the whole "Thanagars armies were created by Hyathis" part on three different wiki when looking up info on her out of curiosity when this arc started, because my knowledge of Thangar is entirely "they're locked in war with the Gordanians wanting to enslave / exterminate them" from the older Justice League show.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Even ignoring Paul's reaction should Thanagar try anything near Earth, the league is quite capable of beating back moderate sized invasions without either lantern corps.

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Oh, they wouldn't send an invasion force. It would be a small strike team of Crows.

Does she know he knows that?

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Yes, the fact that they went to downside and had to fight the manhawks is part of his intelligence file.

"...yes, Shayera Hol. By all means. Do threaten that we will go to war with the people who are of the same species as the Guardians of the Universe, who have all of the Guardians' knowledge and abilities, and who split with the Guardians because they felt that the Guardians of the Universe were being too hands-off."

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They split off because the Guardians wanted to keep the Manhunter androids in service after they murdered an entire Sector.

I also stumbled on the whole "Thanagars armies were created by Hyathis" part on three different wiki when looking up info on her out of curiosity when this arc started, because my knowledge of Thangar is entirely "they're locked in war with the Gordanians wanting to enslave / exterminate them" from the older Justice League show.

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In this story at least, Hyathis isn't a mind control specialist. She can nudge things a little if you've got her engineered microscopic plant life in your body, but mostly she doesn't bother. The Thanagarians who originally followed her did so out out of gratitude and a sense of obligation... And being a little off balance because getting cured doesn't mean that your mind immediately gets straightened out.

 

[Lurking Shade]

And being a little off balance because getting cured doesn't mean that your mind immediately gets straightened out.

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That part was also listed on it, though made a much big deal and treated as the primary and only reason they let her crown herself an absolute monarch. I'd mainly been curious about what her whole deal was since Hyathis is a character I'd only ever heard of in this story.

Was a real "Ah, comics" moment reading up on things and how the version of the Plague described there stripped all Thanagarians of their individuality until cured. Especially its version of why the Hawks were sent to Earth being "how to handle crime?" because according to it Thanagar had no criminals before the Plague and was practically a peaceful utopia. As was her trying to use telepathy to get a planet to start a war with the Darkstars as a false flag to conquer them.

 

[Austin Pharos]

I wonder if there are civilizations advanced enough to use singularity projectors as their main guns, but not advanced to use something better?

Actually, is singularity projector the best brute force option Paul has outside direct Ophidian summoning?

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Define brute force.

By area of effect, maybe? However it struggles to bypass esoteric defenses.

Esoteric defenses tend to have a narrow range of solutions anyways. Spell-eaters might be better at brute force due to how common magic defenses are.

 

[Neruz]

I'm not sure where you're getting this from?

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From the OG comics (Justice League of America if memory serves), which is where the storyline of Hyathis being made ruler of Thanagar for fixing the Equalizing Plague comes from: Thanagar was a relatively peaceful utopian world ruled be a benevolent science council until the Manhawks showed up. In response they established the Wingmen to serve as police force to restore order, as crime was now a thing.

The Equalizer showed up and hit them with the Equalizing Plague, Hyathis escaped from the prison she'd been put into by the Justice League and ended up on Thanagar, where she offered to fix the plague in exchange for being made their ruler. After becoming ruler she militarized Thanagarian society and trained the Wingmen police forces into a proper army, which the Thanagarians just sort of went along with because the aftereffects of the plague made them submissive and breedable, and even after she was deposed they remained militant due to that influence.

(Then you've got the Crisis that rebooted Thanagar as a slave world that rebelled, I forget what New 52 did with it, and most recently with DC Rebirth it turns out that Thanagar was just a colony world of the real Thanagarian homeworld, Thanagar Prime, which has been kept hidden outside of reality this whole time and is a massive fortress world full of secretses that gets conquered by Onimar Synn and Starro.)


If you mean the telepathy and empathy, Hyathis has always had a degree of telepathic and empathic powers, which she can use to mess with people's heads and occasionally demonstrates a degree of mind control, such as in her very first appearance way back when in 1961 where she attempts to enslave the Justice League. You've also got things like the time she mind controlled the Zaredians to fight the Darkstars in Superboy and the Ravers, and plenty of other instances.

Of course as always with superhero comic book characters the extent of her powers varies wildly from author to author.

 

[AmericanNumbers]

From a galactic tactical perspective: in less than a decade Paul effectively swung a peer conflict between the Reach and the Controllers, took out the Citadel and was the key person in repelling an excursion from Apocalypse to Earth. Thanagar is so outclassed here that the threats from Shayera are laughable.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

I wonder if there are civilizations advanced enough to use singularity projectors as their main guns, but not advanced to use something better?

Actually, is singularity projector the best brute force option Paul has outside direct Ophidian summoning?

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Hmm....It's got to be up there on energy output, but stopping to think about it, while a gravity singularity (even a tiny one) is powerful, gravity itself is the weakest of the fundamental forces. Now, that said 'weak' is only comparative to the other forces.

Going on a tangent here.

Fundamental Force - Weapon or Construct

Strong Nuclear Force - Anti Matter Fabrication / Positron Projection Cannon (Throws antimatter at matter causing mutual annihilation)
Weak Nuclear Force - 'Crumbler Gauntlet' (Actively Removes binding force Holding Atoms together)
Electromagnetic Force - Emp's and REALLY BIG MAGNETS (Renegade used some sort of Star level magnet constuct vs Brimstone during the Deliverance Fight)
Gravitational Force - Gravity Torsion / Singularity Beam Projector. (Compress and twist local space time, crushing targets)


Now...the implication of most of these weapons would LIKELY result in significant side effects, generally being something along a nuke going off because messing with the base rules of the universe tends to have bad results for existing in that universe.

Honestly I'd say the Crumbler effect, if properly scaled up is far more frightening. Even one of the Weaponers mentioned upon speaking about it mentioned they felt it was inspired by the Anti-Monitor. And it just Erases the energy in binding, which SHOULD cause booms but doesn't. It's honestly a bit like those Entropic weapons that OL's run into a few times....something on the Theological Scale.

 

[Vaermina]

In this story at least, Hyathis isn't a mind control specialist. She can nudge things a little if you've got her engineered microscopic plant life in your body, but mostly she doesn't bother. The Thanagarians who originally followed her did so out out of gratitude and a sense of obligation... And being a little off balance because getting cured doesn't mean that your mind immediately gets straightened out.

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She's going to need to now, otherwise she's in for the bloodiest insurgency in history since none of those conquered planets actually wanted her rule.

 

[RoninSword]

@Mr Zoat way back, there was this bit

"Indeed. I am here because you have pushed them entirely out of what was once a Sector which the Green Lantern Corps patrolled."

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about Green Lanterns being able to once again patrol/recruit from Sectors that had had Green Lanterns before the Reach. My understanding was that this didn't actually amount to any official policy making, being between these three rather then NEMOs council.
Have NEMO and the Guardians come to terms on how such a thing works? Especially since the Guardians still have their own treaty with the Reach.

 

[Steelplaza]

From a galactic tactical perspective: in less than a decade Paul effectively swung a peer conflict between the Reach and the Controllers, took out the Citadel and was the key person in repelling an excursion from Apocalypse to Earth. Thanagar is so outclassed here that the threats from Shayera are laughable.

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Of course she didn't threaten him, did she? OL asked Shayera what she was hoping to accomplish, and she said essentially, "I wanted to yell at you at let you know I'm mad." She sort of came close with "if I ever catch you off earth" but it seems like the cutoff was more because she thought better of it than because trailing off was meant to be a threat.

"Ah. Feel free to bring that up at the next meeting. I think that everyone knows that the power ring means that I work for someone else."

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I got to say, Paul's claims to "work for" the Controllers have always been incredibly disingenuous. When has he ever done anything because a Controller ordered him to do it[1]? Or even consulted the Controllers about their policy and attempted to fit his actions to their policy? He only ever brings them up when he wants an excuse. If anything, the one he actually asked about this was the sector Green Lantern, who he sort of got to bless the whole effort. (Not that he was taking orders from the Green Lantern, but he at least consulted the guy and possibly would have been willing to do something different if the GL had a different, actionable idea.)

[1] Okay, he may have take a request from his favorite Grandma Controller one or twice, but that was more in the spirit of gratitude to her than because she's his boss.

Have NEMO and the Guardians come to terms on how such a thing works? Especially since the Guardians still have their own treaty with the Reach.

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I wonder if the Guardians are considering withdrawing from their treaty with the Reach. You can withdraw from treaties! Now that the Reach are vulnerable and NEMO has proven itself, might be time to try again to be rid of the Reach.

 

[Darko]

She's going to need to now, otherwise she's in for the bloodiest insurgency in history since none of those people actually wanted her rule.

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It's not like she can control the environment to capture people.

Except she can.

 

[Vaermina]

It's not like she can control the environment to capture people.

Except she can.

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Except she can't be everywhere at once even with the very dangerous organic supercomputer frying her brain.