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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
w34v3r said:
Until it turns out that mind controled people aren't actually good at anything and have to be told how not to start fires or get stuck on fence posts.
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They might do it anyway, and just experiment with different procedures to find one that works 'better' from their perspective. The Nazis were not exactly adverse to human experimentation (on people that they refused to recognize were people). Quite the opposite, in fact.
 
Ganurath said:
Munich, not Munch, although that would be the perfect city to build a lesbian nightclub if it was called that.
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Good news, then--the city is only called "Munich" in English. In German, the city's name is "Munchen."

TheMidnightRook said:
Actually, if it continues multiplying, perpetually, long after it has passed the point where mortal means can quantify, record, or even really understand on a conceptual level, "infinite" is the only real way to describe it.
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Not true, mathematically. In fact, we have all sorts of numbers that mathematicians (and physicists, and a lot of other people!) use regularly that are so vastly beyond anything that we can truly grasp on a conceptual level except as something purely abstract. Indeed, there are even numbers that are sometimes used that we can't even record without using special mathematical notation, because they are so vast that even a regular form is effectively unrecordable.

For example, everyone's favorite search engine is named for a misspelling of googol, which is the name for the number 10100​. (That's a 1 followed by 100 zeroes, or 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, for those of you who aren't good at visualizing powers of ten.) By comparison, it is estimated that there are between 1078​ and 1082​ atoms in the entire universe. And yet, this isn't even the largest named number.

The largest named number is the googolplex, which I can't accurately depict using the standard text tools in Xenforo--I have to resort to using a mixture of them and the old plaintext symbology for exponents: 10^(10100​). It's a 1 followed by an entire googol of zeroes. As in, 1 followed by (depending on your estimate) between 1 and 1,000 sextillion times as many zeroes as there are atoms in the universe. And yet, the googolplex is still a finite number; if you add one to it or subtract one from it, you get a specific answer; you can use it in arithmetic calculations and get a defined answer. Infinite numbers break those rules; infinity plus one is still infinity, while infinity divided by infinity also is still infinity, not the 1 you would normally expect (as one of the brain-breaking things about calculus is that there are an infinite number of infinite numbers, and they're not all equal to each other... but you can't use simple arithmetic to compare them). 1/0 equals infinity, but infinity times zero does not equal one, or zero, or infinity (it's officially "undefined" and is an area where, to my knowledge, even the highest levels of mathematics give up and say "there be dragons here").

It's impossible to keep multiplying a number until it becomes infinite, mathematically. You can say that it trends towards infinity, i.e., that as the number you multiply it by gets arbitrarily large, the product can be made arbitrarily large, but it never actually reaches it because the number you're multiplying by never reaches infinity, either. (One of the most basic aspects of calculus is learning how to work around situations where you divide by 0 or do any arithmetic or exponential operations involving infinity, by using tricks that were developed to describe the behavior of a function--an equation where any one input gives no more than one result--as it approaches a given number, but is not at that number; very useful for finding, say, the instantaneous speed at any point on a graph of distance versus time by dividing the change in position by the change in time and bringing it down to a 0 change in time--instantaneous--despite that being 0/0 and thus impossible to solve arithmetically...)
 
Mr Zoat said:
Having a bit of culture shock You're…
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Missing full stop.

Mr Zoat said:
Kon-El, M'gann, Aqualad
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Mmmm, one of these things is not like the others, I see.

Mr Zoat said:
'Over hearing'
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Nice pun.

Mr Zoat said:
Yes, I don't speak French.
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Your ring does.

TheMidnightRook said:
That's a model that DC only adopted post-Crisis, largely to cut down on the number of alternate universes they would have to keep track of
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Only formally adopted. However, plotlines before that still basically held to the same idea that there are

TheMidnightRook said:
Zoat has on multiple occaisions expressed a great dislike of the New 52, and essentially declared everything associated with it to not be canon to this fic
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You... are aware that I'm aware of this fact, right? I've been participating in the discussion thread since SpaceBattles. I've even played with the "why is your post blank?" joke. However, it was just this week that Zoat pointed out that he isn't completely averse to making use of concepts that are used in New 52 so long as they're consistent with pre-New 52.

You don't have to accept post-Crisis storylines to recognize that the fact that it was even possible to happen suggests that certain things may be true about the underlying cosmology.

rdfox said:
infinity divided by infinity also is still infinity
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Nope, like the other examples later in your post, it's undefined.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Ah, gay panic defence. It sounds so awesome, like a kind of homosexual limit break, but it's actually so rubbish.
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i have to admit, i nearly died drinking my coffee reading this, now i can't unsee the strange image of an anti-gay edgy "super-hero" using his Homosexual limit break to fight gay alien overlord.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Wallace has a solution. He drinks a small healing potion every other day or so and otherwise has a normal life.
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I have to say that this rubs me the wrong way, of all the stuff that OL pursues doggedly the thing that he kind of just accepts a half assed solution for rather than striding to fix completely is a serious issue that one of his closes friends has?

Not to mention that if Impulse is never going to appear then the Flash's presumes successor in case of his death or retirement is an objectively worse version of him whom OL has the resources and contacts to at least pursue helping him maybe become as fast as his mentor
 
rdfox said:
Good news, then--the city is only called "Munich" in English. In German, the city's name is "Munchen."


Not true, mathematically. In fact, we have all sorts of numbers that mathematicians (and physicists, and a lot of other people!) use regularly that are so vastly beyond anything that we can truly grasp on a conceptual level except as something purely abstract. Indeed, there are even numbers that are sometimes used that we can't even record without using special mathematical notation, because they are so vast that even a regular form is effectively unrecordable.

For example, everyone's favorite search engine is named for a misspelling of googol, which is the name for the number 10100​. (That's a 1 followed by 100 zeroes, or 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, for those of you who aren't good at visualizing powers of ten.) By comparison, it is estimated that there are between 1078​ and 1082​ atoms in the entire universe. And yet, this isn't even the largest named number.

The largest named number is the googolplex, which I can't accurately depict using the standard text tools in Xenforo--I have to resort to using a mixture of them and the old plaintext symbology for exponents: 10^(10100​). It's a 1 followed by an entire googol of zeroes. As in, 1 followed by (depending on your estimate) between 1 and 1,000 sextillion times as many zeroes as there are atoms in the universe. And yet, the googolplex is still a finite number; if you add one to it or subtract one from it, you get a specific answer; you can use it in arithmetic calculations and get a defined answer. Infinite numbers break those rules; infinity plus one is still infinity, while infinity divided by infinity also is still infinity, not the 1 you would normally expect (as one of the brain-breaking things about calculus is that there are an infinite number of infinite numbers, and they're not all equal to each other... but you can't use simple arithmetic to compare them). 1/0 equals infinity, but infinity times zero does not equal one, or zero, or infinity (it's officially "undefined" and is an area where, to my knowledge, even the highest levels of mathematics give up and say "there be dragons here").

It's impossible to keep multiplying a number until it becomes infinite, mathematically. You can say that it trends towards infinity, i.e., that as the number you multiply it by gets arbitrarily large, the product can be made arbitrarily large, but it never actually reaches it because the number you're multiplying by never reaches infinity, either. (One of the most basic aspects of calculus is learning how to work around situations where you divide by 0 or do any arithmetic or exponential operations involving infinity, by using tricks that were developed to describe the behavior of a function--an equation where any one input gives no more than one result--as it approaches a given number, but is not at that number; very useful for finding, say, the instantaneous speed at any point on a graph of distance versus time by dividing the change in position by the change in time and bringing it down to a 0 change in time--instantaneous--despite that being 0/0 and thus impossible to solve arithmetically...)
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Man, I'm and engineer and I am so glad that I don't have to do that stuff anymore
 
Vaermina said:
Nazi mind control does not work like that.
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They weren't referring to more conventional brainwashing, but the "Nazi Mind Control Rays making people straight" that you referenced in the post that they were quoting. Unless you were using "Nazi Mind Control Rays " as some sort of obscure metaphor for conventional brainwashing, then you were suggesting it worked like that.
 
I think it will be quite difficult (if not impossible) to change Overgirl's point of view in relation to National Socialism. Earth 10 is explicitly described as a pseudo-utopia built on human suffering, this implies that the worst atrocities of the regime happened a long time ago, and as long as you meet the phenotypic qualities requested by the Nazis, you will most likely live with standards of life better than in the USA.

To make my point clear I will give an example; I hate Communism, but if someone gave me a choice between living in a utopian world ruled by the Communists and between living in this world, I will undoubtedly choose the first.
 
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rdfox said:
It's impossible to keep multiplying a number until it becomes infinite, mathematically. You can say that it trends towards infinity, i.e., that as the number you multiply it by gets arbitrarily large, the product can be made arbitrarily large, but it never actually reaches it because the number you're multiplying by never reaches infinity,
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My original joke stated "Assuming an infinite multiverse" (or close enough, I can't be bothered to go find it right now), rephrasing it as "assuming a multiverse that trends towards infinity" might be more mathematically precise, but it's clunky and pedantic grammatically.


Coda said:
You... are aware that I'm aware of this fact, right?
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Given that I'm not a mind reader, I honestly can't be certain what you are or aren't aware of, especially given what they say about making assumptions. The only thing I can say about you with any real certainty, is that you nitpicked a joke I made, and it snowballed from there.
 
Chaoswind said:
They are "reasonable" to the people they want to recruit, if you are in their undesirable list (a list that has slight variations depending on the local brand of Nazisn) they want you and people like you to not exist, and there is absolutely nothing "reasonable" about that... So no, communist aren't worse, not by a long shot.
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Note that this doesn't necessarily mean that they want to kill you. It depends on which list you're on.
I'd want people with genetically bad knees like myself to not exist (ie. to not have bad knees), but I'm not suicidal.
 
The atrocities definitely happened before most people on Earth 10 were born. It's even brought up by Leatherwing, their Batman, when Overman says the Freedom Fighters represent the shame of their past.

===

Overman: For years we've faced legitimate threats where there was no doubt as to the morality of our actions. The Star Conqueror, Konstrukt, the Luthor League, Kanjar Ro. But this . . . This seems different. These enemies rise from the shame of our past. They have grievances we may have to confront.

Leatherwing: I'm not ashamed of anything. That happened decades ago, before I was born. My family had good reasons for everything that it did. How is this any different?

===

Which I don't necessarily disagree with. I don't really like the idea of punishing people for things that happened before they were even born.

Oh, and apparently the Nazis of Earth 10 decided to change the name of America to Germanica.
 
You know maybe Wally should be looking into instances where the various speedsters lost their powers? Or some sort of alchemical purge potion?

Basically the idea is that since granting the speedster power is a known quantity if you have access to good labs, and Garrick's notes, fixing whatever went wrong with Wally might be harder and more disruptive than just undoing everything and giving him a new dose that was made properly.

An alchemical purge solution is probably something that various alchemical traditions would have use for as opposed to a specific fix for Wally's situation.
 
Gammadion (part 16)
  • Threadmarks
    • 14th March
    22:27 GMT +1

    "No."

    "I can s-."

    "No."

    "Overg-."

    "No."

    "Angelika-."

    "How is your society so degenerate that a good woman like Aunty Gerri is… Infected with these filthy habits?"

    "Simply put, we-" Mostly. "-don't regard them as filthy or degenerate. I mean, what logical-."

    "What djgkh-?" She shudders, taking a moment to compose herself. I really have to admire her presence of mind; she's had to do that a lot today, but even being confronted by the idea that the woman who's become her mother-substitute was homosexual all along she's trying to respond coherently and rationally. "Logical. Yes. How do they have children?"

    "In vitro fertilisation. Or they adopt." I shrug. "Come on, I know kryptonians had exo-wombs. I don't believe for a moment that Earth Ten doesn't have technology for assisting reproduction."

    She shakes her head. "We could probably perform such procedures but we do not use the technology like that. If it cannot breed then it does not deserve to breed."

    "Oh."

    She glares at me. "What do you mean 'oh'?"

    "Kon hasn't.. exactly asked, but it.. seemed… He wouldn't be able to have children with M'gann anyway. I.. had wondered how you squared superheroing with… 'Children, church and kitchen'."

    "Women aren't that limited. Ariosophists like strong women. And the fact that I cannot have children does not unduly trouble me. We do not sterilise war veterans who lost limbs in honourable battle in the way we do people born without them due to genetic flaws. I lost the ability to bear children but my race gained knowledge of kryptonian genetics. Mine was an honourable sacrifice."

    "Your men-."

    "Karl could sire children on any healthy kryptonian woman. It does not apply."

    "And most lesbians could reproduce through conventional sex with a man if they wanted to. And I imagine that prior to the invention of assisted reproduction technology.. some did. I've personally helped thirty one lesbian couples have children or become pregnant-."

    "If they are having-" She frowns. "-sex with you then they are hardly lesbians."

    "Ah, no, sorry, I meant that I've used my ring to assist them, merging genetic material and triggering cell division."

    Which is not to say that I haven't had… Offers. Some of which included Jade. I'm pretty sure that she'd never go for it.

    "Besides, one man causing that many pregnancies amongst an isolated population would be terrible for genetic diversity."

    "Please repeat that?"

    I frown. "Besides… One man causing.. that many pregnancies amongst a isolated population would be.. terrible for genetic diversity?"

    "So perhaps you should add negroes and Jews to it? Have you been educated into believing that you need genes from degenerates in order to remain healthy?"

    "Ah-. Not exactly, but genetic errors tend to be expressed far less in diverse populations."

    "Just sterilise the people carrying them."

    "That seems a little extreme."

    "Does 'diversity' prevent genetic errors from being expressed, even when only unrelated people reproduce?"

    "Ah, no, not completely. We don't-."

    "Sterilisation does, when combined with mandatory genetic screening."

    "We don't have the technology to screen like that. But we're getting off the point, unless your Earth has discovered an underlying genetic basis for homosexuality."

    "What is the point?" She turns away. "In a few days, either your Justice League will send me back, or the New Statesmen will have come to recover me. You will not 'turn' me in that time, and I doubt that I will have turned you."

    "The.. point is that we told Mrs Brauer that we'd meet her, and we're going to be late."

    "So-. Wait, she is married? You told me that she is only interested in women!"

    I don't remember what Germany Prime's stance on gay marriage was, but here it's been legal since the noughties.

    "German law allows two people to marry. Whether they're a man and a woman or two of either is only significant if they want a church wedding."

    Angelika appears to be uncertain what to make of that. Either that, or she's about to vomit, but we're over countryside here so that won't matter too much.

    "Gay people are no more inherently liberal than straight people. If given the opportunity to form near-conventional romantic relationships, most will go for it. I mean, what do your schools teach about Ernst Röhm?"

    "Who?"

    "Member of the German Workers' Party? Commanded the Sturmabteilung? Took over the War Ministry during the Beer Hall Putsch? Got purged when the National Socialists went mainstream?"

    "Are you implying that he may have been homosexual?"

    "I'm not implying anything; I'm directly stating it. As I understand, he was pretty open about it. It was public knowledge at the time. And he was still a member of the National Socialist party because it didn't have a hard line on sexual orientation at the time and he agreed with everything else." Hm. "You know, you could take a copy of our archives back with you. Everything your Germania has chosen to forget. I mean… If you're sure that you're right, what's the harm in getting more primary sources?"

    "Sometimes the purity-. The purity of the state must be preserved by impure means."

    "Meaning?"

    "The criminal terrorists I fight often have friends and families. Some of whom knew nothing of their illegal activities. People who would mourn their loss, and beg for clemency. It would be 'nice' to be able to grant it, but all that would do is release a criminal to commit more crimes. So I don't dwell on it. I don't hear petitions. And I don't record that someone I tore in half was considered to be 'a friendly, regular sort of guy' in official reports, because people will read those and may reach the false conclusion that terrorism is what friendly, regular sorts of guy do."

    "And is having sex with other women something that national heroines do?"

    She gives her head a small shake. "No."

    "Then how do you intend to explain-?"

    "Overman-. I'm sure that he knows. And… If my Aunty Gerri is… Then I will not talk about it. I will not report it. And I will bear talking to your Mrs Brauer as I have borne everything else here."
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Ho boy. I don't even know where to begin unpacking that.

    I, like I guess everyone else here, would love to see her learning better but the discussions around that would take dozens of posts.

    But I'll say this: make her watch olympic footage, people of all races beating each other at various competitions. That should make a dent at least.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    Which is not to say that I haven't had… Offers. Some of which included Jade. I'm pretty sure that she'd never go for it.
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    Oh you poor deluded bastard Paul. Next time, just tell them to forward their offers to Jade herself. In writing, with photographs.

    Jade might be the one doing the approaching for you.
     
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