With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Coda]

Quite the interesting show of Face OL is giving them

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No, Face is in the Grayven timeline.

I continue to be confused by Paul's confusion.

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If it helps resolve your confusion: Paul ISN'T confused. He was momentarily surprised, then he figured it out, and now he's just irritated.

If he's confused about anything, it's about how Earth could have gone this long without getting its act together on its own.

 

[Pinklestia]

Zoat here is why being a Dictator sucks:

 

[Steelplaza]

Let me try a little pushback. Why is it necessary for Earth to deal with alien traders as a unified planet in the first place? What makes "one planet" the minimum sized geographic unit that can deal with interstellar trade?

I think Adam's suggestion is perfectly sensible. All the nations on Earth are sovereign. Let them deal with ClusterCorps as if it was any other foreign power. Don't think "United Nations" think "World Trade Organization". Each nation, or block of nations that have agreed to negotiate trade terms in unison like the European Union, can set whatever tariffs they want and negotiate however they wish. ClusterCorps can choose whatever deals are most enticing.

What bad thing are we worried will happen if Earth doesn't negotiate as a unit?

EDIT: I think it's very possible that if the United Nations had planned for this in advance and worked it out, the answer would still be, "Every nation has the power to set its own trading terms and there's no reason to violate that principle."

 

[Pinklestia]

. Why is it necessary for Earth to deal with alien traders as a unified planet in the first place?

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Dude even original Star Trek covered this.

Because otherwise alien traders just do whatever the fuck they want and ruin your planet in the process.

United we stand, divided we fall.

 

[Mr Zoat]

No, Face is in the Grayven timeline.

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He's in the SI timeline as well, the SI just hasn't met him.

Zoat here is why being a Dictator sucks:

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Most of that doesn't apply when you can mind control people.

 

[jonasquinn]

Let me try a little pushback. Why is it necessary for Earth to deal with alien traders as a unified planet in the first place? What makes "one planet" the minimum sized geographic unit that can deal with interstellar trade?

I think Adam's suggestion is perfectly sensible. All the nations on Earth are sovereign. Let them deal with ClusterCorps as if it was any other foreign power. Don't think "United Nations" think "World Trade Organization". Each nation, or block of nations that have agreed to negotiate trade terms in unison like the European Union, can set whatever tariffs they want and negotiate however they wish. ClusterCorps can choose whatever deals are most enticing.

What bad thing are we worried will happen if Earth doesn't negotiate as a unit?

EDIT: I think it's very possible that if the United Nations had planned for this in advance and worked it out, the answer would still be, "Every nation has the power to set its own trading terms and there's no reason to violate that principle."

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To name just a few of the problems with allowing every individual country to make their own deals:

1) It would cause enormous technological disparity between the countries that can afford to deal with ClusterCorp and the ones who cant
2) Those companies would use extremely predatory practises to take advantage of countries that ordinarily couldn't afford their services and would most likely end up owning them in all but name
3) The presence of schizo tech will continue to attract even more corporations who will all do the same things
4) Earth will never be able to become an independent entity on the interstellar stage if it's owned by said corporations

 

[Pinklestia]

Most of that doesn't apply when you can mind control people.

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Nothing and no one is immune to failure.

 

[Vaermina]

He can just fuse with the Ophidian and crash the moon into the Earth, he already moved it with his finger once.

He can also take on the entire League, not as easily as the one he took down in -14 but still possible.

The only one that can probably give him a challenge is Guy, who can summon Ion, but he's away from Earth most of the time because of his promotion.

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You forgot they have blue ring Alan.

Blue shuts down Orange.

 

[Darko]

You forgot they have blue ring Alan.

Blue shuts down Orange.

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Paul is extremely resistant to emotional manipulation.

Alan is also a very powerful quasi elemental at best, while Paul is basically capable of becoming a godlike being capable of moving entire planets when he fuses with the Ophidian with just some hand gestures.

 

[Idkusername]

You forgot they have blue ring Alan.

Blue shuts down Orange.

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The relations between the various colours of the emotional colours are not absolute, they are defined by how the wielder processes emotion. It's just that most people have some common thinking patterns, especially emotionally.

Paul is pretty far from normal.

Also, I believe someone said earlier that Blue light was useful against Larfleeze only because he hoped to be rid of his ring.

 

[Vaermina]

Paul is extremely resistant to emotional manipulation.

Alan is also a very powerful quasi elemental at best, while Paul is basically capable of becoming a godlike being capable of moving entire planets when he fuses with the Ophidian with just some hand gestures.

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Why are you bringing up things that don't effect the rock paper scissors nature of the light spectrum?

 

[Darko]

Why are you bringing up things that don't effect the rock paper scissors nature of the light spectrum?

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Because you seem to believe that Paul has these comic weaknesses when from everything we know of him he doesn't.

 

[Stsword]

....... The only way that could work, is if they took the island with them. That's some serious spaceshipping.

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They figured it out in DC 1 Million, the Amazons have Venus, they basically turned it into Valhalla, resurrecting themselves with the Purple Healing Ray when their war games gets one of them killed.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

It's not his organisation. He decided to let someone else run it, and then asked Dox to run it. He's just the 2IC, and Dox has asked him to take a back seat in running things.

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But it is.

He was the driving force in creating it.

He's the Embodiment of it's chosen one.

He has said Emodiment's heart in his being as his friggin soul.

And he is an Orange Lantern. "Mine" Is the name of the game.

Beyond that, in the wider galaxy, but especially on Earth. He is its face, and most well known member.

Now, the truest test of whether or not it is His, is if Dox decides to move the OLC into an action that Para-Paul does NOT want to happen in any way shape or form.

 

[Ardy]

I'm kind of imagining an omake where a Paul ends up neon genesis evangelion and just fucks up the entire prophecy by waking up in orbit and prematurely awakening all the angels.

Then they all go down at once and tear apart NERVE and a bunch of the human race before Paul stops them, but everything needed to create the human instrumentality project is gone and the remaining cultists freak out and cause a panic as they start leaking the fact that they caused the second impact, control everything, and want to turn humanity into semen.

And just watch Paul get more and more confused as to what the fuck is going on.

 

[RichardWhereat]

And he is an Orange Lantern. "Mine" Is the name of the game.

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"Mine!" Is only the name of the game if he wants something. If he doesn't want something, like paper money, the ring gets rid of it.

He doesn't want responsibility.

 

[Galacticplumber]

But it is.

He was the driving force in creating it.

He's the Embodiment of it's chosen one.

He has said Emodiment's heart in his being as his friggin soul.

And he is an Orange Lantern. "Mine" Is the name of the game.

Beyond that, in the wider galaxy, but especially on Earth. He is its face, and most well known member.

Now, the truest test of whether or not it is His, is if Dox decides to move the OLC into an action that Para-Paul does NOT want to happen in any way shape or form.

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But it's NOT. Did you not pay attention to the part where the command structure places Dox higher, or for that matter that in matters of command dispute at the highest level are settled by votes within a council that Paul is only one member of? But no never mind it's all a matter of who was ultimately the cause like you sai- oh wait. He's not the ultimate cause. The controller which made his ring and sent it to him, setting all this in motion, is also a member of that same council.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

But it's NOT. Did you not pay attention to the part where the command structure places Dox higher, or for that matter that in matters of command dispute at the highest level are settled by votes within a council that Paul is only one member of? But no never mind it's all a matter of who was ultimately the cause like you sai- oh wait. He's not the ultimate cause. The controller which made his ring and sent it to him, setting all this in motion, is also a member of that same council.

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I do recall all that.

I also recall the single most important point of the entire story.

Para-Paul does whatever the fuck he wants.

What if time.

Jade does something she truly believes is right. But there is political backlash from an area Dox perceives to be of great importance. They demand Jade be handed over for what amounts to trial and execution. Does Paul allow this?

Dox formulates an idea, one he knows requires a Lantern of great skill and power. He orders Paul to do it. Not only does Paul not want to do it, he greatly feels it shouldn't be done. However, all side against Paul, and he is ordered, not convinced, not brought around to see their point, but ordered flat out to do it. Does Paul follow the order?

The OLC transforms into something Paul truly hates. Yet is not an evil organization. Just something totally against what he feels they should be. Does he hand in his ring? Or does he take his Ophidian and leave? Or does he resume direct control of his Corps?

The way I look at it, and the way it seems Paul behaves, Dox is the CEO....Paul is the owner who wants to fuck around doing whatever he wants, and as Richard stated, doesn't want the responsibility.

On Paper Dox outranks him.

On paper.

But if push came to shove....what do you think is going to happen?

 

[Galacticplumber]

I do recall all that.

I also recall the single most important point of the entire story.

Para-Paul does whatever the fuck he wants.

What if time.

Jade does something she truly believes is right. But there is political backlash from an area Dox perceives to be of great importance. They demand Jade be handed over for what amounts to trial and execution. Does Paul allow this?

Dox formulates an idea, one he knows requires a Lantern of great skill and power. He orders Paul to do it. Not only does Paul not want to do it, he greatly feels it shouldn't be done. However, all side against Paul, and he is ordered, not convinced, not brought around to see their point, but ordered flat out to do it. Does Paul follow the order?

The OLC transforms into something Paul truly hates. Yet is not an evil organization. Just something totally against what he feels they should be. Does he hand in his ring? Or does he take his Ophidian and leave? Or does he resume direct control of his Corps?

The way I look at it, and the way it seems Paul behaves, Dox is the CEO....Paul is the owner who wants to fuck around doing whatever he wants, and as Richard stated, doesn't want the responsibility.

On Paper Dox outranks him.

On paper.

But if push came to shove....what do you think is going to happen?

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Ah, but your logic eats itself. Paul does what he wants. Your initial complaint is that you feel he should more actively interfere in this event. He actively doesn't want to. Quite well established in his own thoughts, and his conversations with everyone involved.

Doesn't matter what argument you try to bring in service of your point. They're all objectively either false, or self-defeating.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Ah, but your logic eats itself. Paul does what he wants. Your initial complaint is that you feel he should more actively interfere in this event. He actively doesn't want to. Quite well established in his own thoughts, and his conversations with everyone involved.

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No, my initial complaint is how odd it is that OL just doesn't seem to care, when there is potential backlash on him personally, in addition to any number of problems Space businessman could cause.

The journey from "I will consult with the god of wealth about changes" to "Meh...."

So do try to keep up.

Also? Nice that you skipped everything I just put forth. That's cool. Don't bother going back to it, I'm not going to pay attention anyway.

Doesn't matter what argument you try to bring in service of your point. They're all objectively either false, or self-defeating.

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Forgive me if I don't accept you as chief judge of anything I have to say. Honestly? You can take that bit of condescension and cram it deep.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

No, my initial complaint is how odd it is that OL just doesn't seem to care, when there is potential backlash on him personally, in addition to any number of problems Space businessman could cause.

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Not... really? OL can get rid of Manga Khan whenever he wants. Of course he doesn't care. The problem isn't very severe, and can be easily fixed, if needed. He just prefers to let conventional governments of the world deal with it so that they can start to learn how to do so in preparation for threats that are actually dangerous, like an actively hostile interstellar military threat or something.

Edit: TLDR, Manga Khan isn't OL's priority. The fact that governments of Earth is unable to deal with such a simple threat is.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Not... really? OL can get rid of Manga Khan whenever he wants. Of course he doesn't care. The problem isn't very severe, and can be easily fixed, if needed. He just prefers to let conventional governments of the world deal with it so that they can start to learn how to do so in preparation for threats that are actually dangerous, like an actively hostile interstellar military threat or something.

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I simply find it odd based on all his prior actions. My finding it odd doesn't mean that he's doing something wrong. Just what I would probably say, were I there.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

I simply find it odd based on all his prior actions. My finding it odd doesn't mean that he's doing something wrong. Just what I would probably say, were I there.

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What do you specifically find odd about this situation? One of his priority has been to make sure that Earth can stand on its own as an interstellar power. Dealing with interstellar threats(especially such relatively harmless ones) for them doesn't encourage the governments of Earth to learn how to stand on their own.

Edit: Like, you know, how he didn't just dump alien tech to humans. He would rather encourage them to develop on their own.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

What do you specifically find odd about this situation?

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Literally all the things that I've already mentioned in other posts and don't feel the need to chew my food twice.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

Literally all the things that I've already mentioned in other posts and don't feel the need to chew my food twice.

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All right, what do you find odd about how little OL cares about Manga Khan? He isn't a threat. I'm not denying that this has a potential to go horrifically wrong. It's just that OL can stop him whenever he wants to. He doesn't want to. That's the point. He'd rather force governments of the world to deal with this relatively low risk crisis(compared to other interstellar threats out there), so that they can do better against next interstellar crisis. To me, you seem oddly fixated on the fact that he dosn't want to deal with this problem. Do you have a reason you think OL would be invested in directly dealing with Manga Khan rather than letting Earth deal with it?

 

[RichardWhereat]

Literally all the things that I've already mentioned in other posts and don't feel the need to chew my food twice.

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You should actually chew your food an average of 32 times before swallowing. Unless it's been slow cooked or you're using saliva and your tongue to break it down against the roof of your mouth.

 

[Galacticplumber]

You should actually chew your food an average of 32 times before swallowing. Unless it's been slow cooked or you're using saliva and your tongue to break it down against the roof of your mouth.

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So literally always? The tongue and saliva are always active. Same with the grinding of back teeth that's a separate process from food separation by cutting front teeth.

The actual metric to chew by is whether the bite has been effectively rendered into a reasonably fine slurry or paste. Yes this chewing topic is more debatable than character motivations, why do you ask?

 

[RichardWhereat]

So literally always? The tongue and saliva are always active. Same with the grinding of back teeth that's a separate process from food separation by cutting front teeth.

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Sometimes you don't chew, sometimes you just let a small cut piece of slow cooked beef cheek sit on your tongue and slowly get ground away on the roof of your mouth while you constantly flood the mouth cavity with more and more saliva.

Instead of the saliva just coming in because that's what it does, while you're doing your mechanical chewing and swallowing thing.

 

[Galacticplumber]

Sometimes you don't chew, sometimes you just let a small cut piece of slow cooked beef cheek sit on your tongue and slowly get ground away on the roof of your mouth while you constantly flood the mouth cavity with more and more saliva.

Instead of the saliva just coming in because that's what it does, while you're doing your mechanical chewing and swallowing thing.

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Sounds... Tedious. Like.... That's something I'd only bust out for the highest quality meat.

Also yes chewing is mechanical. It's the means by which you experience the content, not the content itself. No one complains about turning pages, or clicking next if digital, being an overly mechanical way of advancing while reading.

 

[Vaermina]

But if push came to shove....what do you think is going to happen?

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Paul tries to do his own thing.

At which point Dox goes to the Controllers, who flip the switch on the contingencies they have spent the last X months putting in place, which activate and completely shut Paul down.