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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Ngamer11 said:
If I remember correctly, Paul has used Enkindle Need before. Just never while simultaneously Branding someone. Doing both at the same time actually makes a lot of sense, as well as why he doesn't exactly tell people that he can do that.
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The "pull out of his ass" that I was talking about was.

Time Travel.

Teleporting through wards that just minutes ago he couldn't teleport through.

Armor made out of material that's somehow immune to entropy that he designed in the few hours since he first encountered the weapons.

Though on that note, Zoat invented Branding, it's not a canon ability of the orange light at all. And what's worse, he made it pretty much a no limit fallacy in that no matter how strong, smart, skilled, or otherwise powerful you are it can own the character.

So yea, bad writing all around this chapter.


And to those refusing to look at the story from an objective perspective, you should really stop criticizing people who do.
 
Vaermina said:
Though on that note, Zoat invented Branding, it's not a canon ability of the orange light at all. And what's worse, he made it pretty much a no limit fallacy in that no matter how strong, smart, skilled, or otherwise powerful you are it can own the character.
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Actually, it was used once by Larfleeze in the comics, when he used Green Lantern Stel to send a message to the Guardians after the Controllers tried to take the Orange Central Power Battery. Larfleeze presumably doesn't use it much because he prefers killing them and making them part of his Corps instead.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
Honestly, you're making it sound slightly like a TARDIS... At least with the 'operated by less than the optimum number of people. I bet there's some limited similarity in its' ability to travel, too.
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Along with all the weird shit in it.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Very.. stylish. Not lessening the comparison to a TARDIS any, either...
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Nope.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Oh god, now he's acting like the Doctor. Stop him, please.
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Actually I think he's acting more like the Master, one of the more jovial version at least.

They have a lot of similarities.

Both are sadistic megalomaniacs that want to cause pain and suffering to others.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Eh, I suspect he's overestimating his persuasiveness. Even now, the Warlock-breed hate him as much as the Columbians do. You're not likely to undo centuries of that much hate in a generation or two...
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Maybe, but he can probably convince a few to follow him.

If they have been rejected by their society then they may feel more resentful to them than they do to Melmoth, who they only know through history and stories rather than actually meeting him like the rest of their society, so they may not have any personal resentfulness towards him.

Chojin Patriarch said:
On that, we can all agree. Though the sooner he's safely somewhere he can't mess with anyone again, the better. What do you think? Oan Sciencell or a Maltusian lockup of some kind?
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If Paul takes him then it's possible it will be the Controllers version of a cell.

Still they could just hand him over to the Columbians and let them kill him.

He has harmed their society and he has committed multiple genocides and other horrible crimes.

Hell given what he did to Aurakos and Aurakles they could also hand him over to the New Gods for trial.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Presumably, OL is monitoring his actions. I doubt Melmoth could resist the compulsion to be helpful, but he could easily 'accidentally' be over-enthusiastic with some weapons fire...
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Or his version of 'helpfulness' may be very different.

In Life Ore Death Hal Jordan talks to the Team about some of the other lights and rings and points out how the Indigo Light can be used for evil.

Say the Joker got an Indigo ring, that would make him compassionate, but it would not necessarily change his stance that he's the only sane person around and to make everyone else sane he needs to hurt them. It may pain him to hurt them, but in the end he would see it as a necessary step to help them, like a parent disciplining their child, they may not want to do it, but they still have to for the good of the child.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yeah, can't trust he doesn't have some hidden countermeasures to undo the Orange Light tweaking. A backup memory that kicks in if he doesn't perform a certain action every so often, for example...
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Good point.

He may not have resistance against orange light, but he probably has some measures in place for mind control magic or tech.

Chojin Patriarch said:
So it's a liquid space-time wedgie. Is it wibbly-wobbly, too? I suppose it must be, or it would run out at some point otherwise.
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The comparison to the TARDIS and all the weird shit in it is getting more and more pronounced.
 
Ngamer11 said:
I just wanted to point out that it isn't a new power, in case anyone thinks it is. Also, I found the part of the story where he used it. He called it Enkindle Avarice. Mr Zoat, will either name work, or will you make one the official name?

Also, he used it in the peace talks in Vega to make the various factions create a treaty that made all sides profit. It is useful in both combat and diplomatic missions.
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Oh you don't have to convince that he has used it previously, I remember those moments.

However trying to convince Vaermina of this, even when you present evidence to him, is an exercise in futility that will get you nowhere.

No matter what evidence and logic you present Vaermina will refuse to consider you are right in any way.

If after a certain point you can't stand arguing with him and consider what he writes to be something you just can't look at anymore then just block him using the ignore option.

Ngamer11 said:
Actually, it was used once by Larfleeze in the comics, when he used Green Lantern Stel to send a message to the Guardians after the Controllers tried to take the Orange Central Power Battery. Larfleeze presumably doesn't use it much because he prefers killing them and making them part of his Corps instead.
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Hmm, thanks for giving us a hint where this ability was used in the comics.
 
Vaermina said:
This chapter isn't getting a like, because I feel disgruntled.

You built up a moderately intriguing Villain that was starting to get stale. And then you had Paul display interesting new abilities which probably foreshadow a larger combat to beat him in the most effective way possible.

I didn't like this, and thus it is crap.
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Fixed that for you, Vaermina. ;)
 
Mr Zoat said:
similar upbringing to Larfleeze; starving and scrabbling
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Comma or colon.

Vaermina said:
And on that note, you want me to believe he shields his abandoned bases from that sort of teleportation but not where he actually is? Suspension of disbelief once again broken.
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As far as I can tell, Melmoth's bases were never SHIELDED against greedyporting, only against scans. He couldn't teleport before because he didn't have any way to target -- little if any coherent, sophisticated desire structures that he would be able to recognize. When he finally did have enough of a scent to follow, it still required him leaving the field of engagement for a significant period of time (even if not the multiple hours necessary for the quintessence waveform scan) so he couldn't do it until the immediately urgent matters had been attended to.

As for branding... even if Zoat invented it, it's a power that's entirely consistent with other known powers. There are very few canonical powers demonstrated for MOST of the ring colors, so in order to write a good story with an underrepresented color it's only natural that it would need fleshed out. If orange light can completely dominate someone's identity then only partially dominating it as a skill that takes more finesse is reasonable -- it would be stranger if it COULDN'T be done, if there was no in-between ground between a push and full assimilation.

And it should be noted that there are canonical powers in the other colors that are in the same general vein. We've got specific examples of red inspiring rage in other people, and yellow and blue (and I think violet?) being able to go so far as rewrite parts of someone's mind. It's also canonically demonstrated that these techniques CAN be resisted with training.
 
Ngamer11 said:
I just wanted to point out that it isn't a new power, in case anyone thinks it is. Also, I found the part of the story where he used it. He called it Enkindle Avarice. Mr Zoat, will either name work, or will you make one the official name?
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Depends what you mean by 'official'. The SI called in 'Need' here because
- Watsonian: it's one sylable and therefore easier to say
- Doylist: I forgot what I called it last time
but it's not as if that's the 'real' name. It's just what he happenmed to call it here.
Coda said:
Comma or colon.
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Thank you, corrected.
Sockmonkey said:
How is Larfleeze's treatment going anyhow? Any significant progress or is he still detoxing?
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He's moving around slightly more when prompted.
 
Coda said:
We've got specific examples of red inspiring rage in other people, and yellow and blue (and I think violet?) being able to go so far as rewrite parts of someone's mind. It's also canonically demonstrated that these techniques CAN be resisted with training.
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Indigo does a full on rewire of your emotions so you can only feel compassion.
 
Coda said:
As far as I can tell, Melmoth's bases were never SHIELDED against greedyporting, only against scans. He couldn't teleport before because he didn't have any way to target -- little if any coherent, sophisticated desire structures that he would be able to recognize. When he finally did have enough of a scent to follow, it still required him leaving the field of engagement for a significant period of time (even if not the multiple hours necessary for the quintessence waveform scan) so he couldn't do it until the immediately urgent matters had been attended to.
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The Honden also isn't your garden variety teleportation method, so Meltmoth may not have any methods to prevent someone from using it, likely because he didn't even know it existed.

Coda said:
As for branding... yes, Zoat invented it, but it's a power that's entirely consistent with other known powers. There are very few canonical powers demonstrated for MOST of the ring colors, so in order to write a good story with an underrepresented color it's only natural that it would need fleshed out. If orange light can completely dominate someone's identity then only partially dominating it as a skill that takes more finesse is reasonable -- it would be stranger if it COULDN'T be done, if there was no in-between ground between a push and full assimilation.
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It may have been used in the comics according to this.

Ngamer11 said:
Actually, it was used once by Larfleeze in the comics, when he used Green Lantern Stel to send a message to the Guardians after the Controllers tried to take the Orange Central Power Battery. Larfleeze presumably doesn't use it much because he prefers killing them and making them part of his Corps instead.
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Coda said:
And it should be noted that there are canonical powers in the other colors that are in the same general vein. We've got specific examples of red inspiring rage in other people, and yellow and blue (and I think violet?) being able to go so far as rewrite parts of someone's mind. It's also canonically demonstrated that these techniques CAN be resisted with training.
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I think violets trapped people in crystals and brainwashed them with the Violet light.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Yes sir. Have.. you any plans on what we're doing with him once the immediate crisis is over?"

"Not yet. That will be… Difficult."
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for the love of christ, assimilate him. he's a treasure trove of information on the Sheeda, and you know, gathering information about the Sheeda is the whole fucking point of this excursion. it would be pretty handy to have a ready-and-willing, 'no need to babysit and maintain a brand' encyclopedia of that knowledge.

not to mention i bet some interesting/entertaining conversations could be had between OL and a non-hostile Melmoth.... kinda like Grayven and Sinestro.

Sockmonkey said:
How is Larfleeze's treatment going anyhow? Any significant progress or is he still detoxing?
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yes, i think i would like to hear an update back on Maltus from Hinnon. maybe a more fleshed-out description of Larfleeze's condition. and i've been on record before as wanting to know what the Ophidian thinks of living in the Orange Central Power Battery and having her own Corps. plus OL should probably talk to her or Hinnon about why the Ophidian wasn't present during the current mission.

and while i'm whining in the dark, i might as well reiterate my desire to have the main man, the last Czarnian, Lobo, get some story time.
 
I gotta say, I'm extremely happy that this was the way that Melmoth got defeated. No overcoming of exotic defenses or trying to think of a way to bypass magical protections, no back and forth with the Illustres having to repair his armor/body and Melmoth running his mouth as he has been doing.

Just... show up and demonstrate his control and mastery over mystical Lantern powers, that's it. I miss stuff like that, when the Illustres gets to really demonstrate that he's really on another level and unless the enemy is being extremely clever or has some narratively inspired cheat-power/weapon, they're going down in just a moment.
 
Ngamer11 said:
Actually, it was used once by Larfleeze in the comics, when he used Green Lantern Stel to send a message to the Guardians after the Controllers tried to take the Orange Central Power Battery. Larfleeze presumably doesn't use it much because he prefers killing them and making them part of his Corps instead.
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The "brand" from Volume 4 Issue 39 was a message and a bomb that Larfleeze set on Stel after he tore him to pieces. It had no supernatural coercion abilities in the slightest. And couldn't just be placed on people, only Lanterns who's ring's the big giant head had consumed.

It being able to be used on anybody, and it being able to mind break people, was something Zoat invented to give Paragon more power.

It's a random unconnected power that's made the character boring and effectively unstoppable when paired with Zoat nerfing anything and everything that canonically is supposed to counter the orange light.
 
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