Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Talon Tiger Dino]

And don't forget we would have 2 working Cults, the Ponyville one and the Manehattan one.


Hey now, we only broke Twilight(she will recover). We made Rarity's dream come true and got Fluttershy a boyfriend and only half of the Lore Six is fucked up(Windy, Copper and Starry) the rest are better than ever(except Velvet, she is still fucked up and half dead).

Click to shrink...

Half of your group being turbo-dead or committing turbo-murder and/or plotting the death of other members is indeed a sad, shattered wreck.

The leader of your group being turbo-depressed and your group never really coalescing to begin with is also a sad shattered wreck.

 

[Venerable Ro]

I think this is another case where we would choose an option that feels better, that feels more moral, and be complacent in doing so. We're thinking of spending the extra time or resources it'll take to go Nothing->Good Friend rather than Friend->Good Friend, just for the sake of making the Moth Sacrament more palatable. That seems misguided to me.

Click to shrink...

Here's what I'm thinking.

The current talk about the Moth Sacrament is driven by the Celestia-learning-the-Lores situation, and the fact that when her Lantern equals or exceeds our Moth she will see us. So we need more Moth right?

Well that's not going to solve our problem. Yeah we could get to Moth 5, but then Celestia's achieving her own Sacrament and so we've got to keep running. Level 7 is the limit, and she can still achieve a 7th level in Lantern to see through even that dappled shadow. Getting levels in Moth just to stay away from Celestia is the very definition of "playing to not lose instead of playing to win". Celestia is still Celestia and still grappling with Daybreaker no matter if we're Moth 4 or 7, it's entirely possible that she could be triggered by some other factor (such as our Brand!) or even by someone's random dumbass roll firing off where it shouldn't.

Looking at you Luna...

"Winning" in this case is defined to me as removing Celestia as a danger to us rather than punting the can down the road hoping that we can keep the Moth/Lantern race going until we hit Glory. As to how we'd remove the danger, I'm confident that Bird has at least conceptualized a method, and more than likely has put the first string within reach.

Luna, and Cadance, will be the one to properly settle this, with our backing. She's training right now, once she's done with that one would assume she'll begin work on finding a way to save Celestia (I note the [Diligent] trait making her training inevitable in the event of us faffing around) and I think she'll probably request supplies/time/help with her efforts.

That would be how we win the Celestia "conflict", by making sure Celestia isn't a threat to us by enabling Luna to defuse her.

In the meantime the Moth Sacrament may indeed be useful, but I don't consider it so overridingly necessary that we have to solve the problem like we did the Tribal Door, with the most expedient solution possible. We have a Mareinette, sending her out into the world to find somepony we'd consider acceptable and even Ideal for the Sacrament will not beggar us, will possibly entertain her, and will avoid burning a contact that can actually do something useful for us.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

In the meantime the Moth Sacrament may indeed be useful, but I don't consider it so overridingly necessary that we have to solve the problem like we did the Tribal Door, with the most expedient solution possible. We have a Mareinette, sending her out into the world to find somepony we'd consider acceptable and even Ideal for the Sacrament will not beggar us, will possibly entertain her, and will avoid burning a contact that can actually do something useful for us.

Click to shrink...

You know, Moth Sacramenting someone befriended entirely via Mareinette amuses me, because, the mask being off in this case could very well be Mareinette's. Just imagine learning that the Velvet you befriended was never actually Velvet in the first place, but this weird skull horse held together by wires. And then you see them in the same room together. At that point I'd keep things to the acquaintance level as well, because wtf is going on here.

Although a Sacrament entailing mask-off running face first into Honored Guest might just break the poor pony's brain instead. @OurLadyOfWires , any thoughts Velvet may have on such an Eldritch interaction?

 

[Nevermort]

@OurLadyOfWires, few questions in regards to upcoming turn.

1.You said that we would not have Fleeting Opportunities this turn, but so far they were mostly social in nature. So can't Mareinette cover for us if something important happens?

2.Also somewhat related, can Mareinette take our role in the Bureau, while Velvet is indisposed? Like a body double. Assuming that we make assassination attempt known we can still present it as Velvet getting back on her hoof the next day to demonstrate a strong front. Cadence and Shining Armor can be made informed of it, and Shining likely can deal with bulk of the work, with Mareinette only needed to look good in her role. And would Mareinette be able to take on COMMISSIONER tasks this way, like increasing Bureau loyalty toward Velvet, befirending Midday Dew or even leading assault on changeling hive?

3.We can't rise Rarity Grail lvl without lores, correct? Even with Grail influence?

4.Can we tell Baldomare which books to search for? I think that we need two Heart 3 books if we want to reach lvl 4 next turn and teach our family Lores. So while we can't do it with other followers, would Baldomare be able to focus on specific lore if we ask her to search for it? Or can we scry for two Heart books in Ponivilee to buy in one action or it must be two scrying attempts?

 

[Venerable Ro]

You know, Moth Sacramenting someone befriended entirely via Mareinette amuses me, because, the mask being off in this case could very well be Mareinette's. Just imagine learning that the Velvet you befriended was never actually Velvet in the first place, but this weird skull horse held together by wires. And then you see them in the same room together. At that point I'd keep things to the acquaintance level as well, because wtf is going on here.

Click to shrink...

It's like I said, The Master already demonstrated exactly what being on the other side of our Sacrament is like, so if anything pulling a Cask of Amontillado on some random criminal should be the preference almost.

 

[DelightedOne]

The leader of your group being turbo-depressed and your group never really coalescing to begin with is also a sad shattered wreck.

Click to shrink...

I'm starting to wonder why everyone thinks the rest of the Elements don't talk to each other anymore when it is just Twilight that shut herself in her house. That is without even mentioning how Applejack, Rainbow, Pinkie, Rarity and Fluttershy knew each other for years before Twilight arrived in Ponyville. They may not be heroes, but they are still friends.

Knowing them, they probably just think Twilight needs some time to grieve after losing almost all of her family and are waiting for her to reach out again... I hope they are right.

Random comment: Has anyone heard The Ballad of the Witches Road? Because it is very Mansus coded.

Edit: and there is also a way to get most of them together: Make them our Close Friends, introduce them to the occult(maybe Leash Applejack and have her vouch for us)and wait till the bond they share with Twilight calls her to them(us).

 

[spiderhellian]

The current talk about the Moth Sacrament is driven by the Celestia-learning-the-Lores situation, and the fact that when her Lantern equals or exceeds our Moth she will see us. So we need more Moth right?

Well that's not going to solve our problem. Yeah we could get to Moth 5, but then Celestia's achieving her own Sacrament and so we've got to keep running. Level 7 is the limit, and she can still achieve a 7th level in Lantern to see through even that dappled shadow. Getting levels in Moth just to stay away from Celestia is the very definition of "playing to not lose instead of playing to win". Celestia is still Celestia and still grappling with Daybreaker no matter if we're Moth 4 or 7, it's entirely possible that she could be triggered by some other factor (such as our Brand!) or even by someone's random dumbass roll firing off where it shouldn't.

Looking at you Luna...

"Winning" in this case is defined to me as removing Celestia as a danger to us rather than punting the can down the road hoping that we can keep the Moth/Lantern race going until we hit Glory. As to how we'd remove the danger, I'm confident that Bird has at least conceptualized a method, and more than likely has put the first string within reach.

Luna, and Cadance, will be the one to properly settle this, with our backing. She's training right now, once she's done with that one would assume she'll begin work on finding a way to save Celestia (I note the [Diligent] trait making her training inevitable in the event of us faffing around) and I think she'll probably request supplies/time/help with her efforts.

That would be how we win the Celestia "conflict", by making sure Celestia isn't a threat to us by enabling Luna to defuse her.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for explaining.

It's a fair point about raising Moth being playing-to-not-lose. I guess I see Celestia's state as less of a problem and more of a constraint. Problems we can fix, constraints we operate under.

I just don't think a doom clock would be introduced if it wasn't going to be relevant, or go away soon Luna and Cadance can do their best, but re-read the update we saw Daybreaker in -- shit is rough. It's going to be slow, and gradual, not something that's soon 'settled'.

I think the Brand worries are a little misguided. First, a sacrament all about putting a Mask sounds quite helpful with that problem too! And second, Celestia won't be getting a Brand. She's not a pony. It could spark a problem with Eclipse (we should social Midday Dew!), but that's at a slightly different level. (Yeah, I can definitely imagine Midday Dew confronting us, a turn or two down the road... Choices of kill, maybe leash, perhaps talk if we've socialed... But not immediate Celestia explosion, because I don't think that will come out of nowhere.)

(Unless it's when Windy ends a city or something. Oof.)

In the meantime the Moth Sacrament may indeed be useful, but I don't consider it so overridingly necessary that we have to solve the problem like we did the Tribal Door, with the most expedient solution possible. We have a Mareinette, sending her out into the world to find somepony we'd consider acceptable and even Ideal for the Sacrament will not beggar us, will possibly entertain her, and will avoid burning a contact that can actually do something useful for us.

Click to shrink...

This is totally valid, but I do disagree, and I am reminded of the wedding vote/what we've been discussing.

As before, the benefits are unclear. There are alternatives we'd prefer.

But give the sacrament some credit. Whether or not you think we'll need-need it, it's a sizeable amount of power that's one book, and one good friend, away! And it feels a little complacent, confident and perhaps over-confident, thinking we won't need it.

Because the other route has costs too. Turns without the Sacrament's power, turns of Mareinette actions (e.g. for Heart Influence, or Lessons, or immediate Confidant actions).

You know, Moth Sacramenting someone befriended entirely via Mareinette amuses me, because, the mask being off in this case could very well be Mareinette's. Just imagine learning that the Velvet you befriended was never actually Velvet in the first place, but this weird skull horse held together by wires. And then you see them in the same room together. At that point I'd keep things to the acquaintance level as well, because wtf is going on here.

Click to shrink...

This does sound funny (and horrifying), admittedly.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

The bigger issue with the Moth Sacrament is that the SH Sacrament is closer to completion and the Knock Sacrament is far more urgent.

 

[Venerable Ro]

This is totally valid, but I do disagree, and I am reminded of the wedding vote/what we've been discussing.

Click to shrink...

I do note that I actually did vote to invite our Names, so I consider myself rather blameless in that specific happenstance.

As before, the benefits are unclear. There are alternatives we'd prefer.

But give the sacrament some credit. Whether or not you think we'll need-need it, it's a sizeable amount of power that's one book, and one good friend, away! And it feels a little complacent, confident and perhaps over-confident, thinking we won't need it.

Because the other route has costs too. Turns without the Sacrament's power, turns of Mareinette actions (that could be used e.g. to bring a current Friend to Confidant, and get us actions right away).

Click to shrink...

We have multiple sacraments that are one simple action away if it's just power and options we need, I find it funny that getting the Moth Sacrament is treated like a hurry-up emergency and yet the Secret Histories Sacrament that we could have had turns ago but for a quick hike with Baldomare is consistently deprioritized. Admittedly this whole "nearly dying" thing has thrown a wrench in the plans for the Knock Sacrament, and the Edge/Lantern Sacraments are well into the planning phase, but still.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Our own SH Sacrament is but two actions away and is much cooler. Just slap an SH Influence and some AotLs on us to go to town.

We can even get bonus Scraps! Barring Edge anyways, that's capped at the moment. Unless the Thug counted as a Worthy Opponent, which would be a surprise.

We do have 10 Personal Combat higher base than the Thug did, but he had one more Wound than us base. Not sure how that compares to Comet's 3 higher Personal Combat base than Shining while having equal Wounds base. If Lore Levels factor into Worthiness then it gets even more likely, as 28-17=11 higher for Velvet while 37-25=12 higher for when Comet could have done his.

Of course, worthiness might not factor in how evenly matched the combatants aren't at all but instead has a minimum bar to clear to count as Worthy instead, in which case this bit of comparison was entirely pointless.

 

[spiderhellian]

The bigger issue with the Moth Sacrament is that the SH Sacrament is closer to completion and the Knock Sacrament is far more urgent.

Click to shrink...

I'm more discussing how we should approach the Moth Sacrament (use a current friend vs. get someone new), whenever we do it. Sure, it's not the top priority. But if we want it, I do have thoughts on how we should do it.

We have multiple sacraments that are one simple action away if it's just power and options we need, I find it funny that getting the Moth Sacrament is treated like a hurry-up emergency and yet the Secret Histories Sacrament that we could have had turns ago but for a quick hike with Baldomare is consistently deprioritized. Admittedly this whole "nearly dying" thing has thrown a wrench in the plans for the Knock Sacrament, and the Edge/Lantern Sacraments are well into the planning phase, but still.

Click to shrink...

Hahahaha I totally agree with you on Baldomare SH, but I accept that as a constraint (people like our personal SH!).

The others... Personal SH is 2 actions, possibly over two turns, at least one Baldomare action. It's quite a bit more dangerous as well.

Edge is... at least Forge Redemption + Biedde action for influence + some relative safety away. (Need to redo math knowing he rerolls every two dice, hm.)

Lantern... Artefact + 2xBaldomare action (influence, expedition) + some follower actions. Feasible, but not quick. Or artefact + Baldomare action + prison and prisoner, which seems very distant.

Moth is a book (1/3 or 1/2 an action) and a single Friendship buff and an action? When we might get the friendship buff this turn? Definitely seems the closest and the safest to me!

 

[Greymere]

I think the Brand worries are a little misguided. First, a sacrament all about putting a Mask sounds quite helpful with that problem too! And second, Celestia won't be getting a Brand. She's not a pony. It could spark a problem with Eclipse (we should social Midday Dew!), but that's at a slightly different level. (Yeah, I can definitely imagine Midday Dew confronting us, a turn or two down the road... Choices of kill, maybe leash, perhaps talk if we've socialed... But not immediate Celestia explosion, because I don't think that will come out of nowhere.)

Click to shrink...

Also remember that getting a Brand requires Level 3 in your personal affinity. Which... isn't trivial, even when you do have ready-made resources at your fingertips (hooftips?). Midday Dew's a while off from reaching that point, considering they just started researching the Mansus and the Lores from the ground up.

Our own SH Sacrament is but two actions away and is much cooler. Just slap an SH Influence and some AotLs on us to go to town.

Click to shrink...

AotL actually wouldn't help, since Application isn't involved. The only way we can really help with the DC is an SH Influence or if, by some strange coincidence, we find a Level 5+ Secret Histories artifact in BtRC Part 3 or something

Edit: Btw @OurLadyOfWires, out of curiosity, can we also take our "Commissioner" actions as regular actions? Not this turn, obviously, but if later down the road we wanted to e.g. increase Bureau loyalty and social Midday Dew, could we throw "social Midday Dew" into our personal AP or free social?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I'm more discussing how we should approach the Moth Sacrament (use a current friend vs. get someone new), whenever we do it. Sure, it's not the top priority. But if we want it, I do have thoughts on how we should do it.


Hahahaha I totally agree with you on Baldomare SH, but I accept that as a constraint (people like our personal SH!).

The others... Personal SH is 2 actions, possibly over two turns, at least one Baldomare action. It's quite a bit more dangerous as well.

Edge is... at least Forge Redemption + Biedde action for influence + some relative safety away. (Need to redo math knowing he rerolls every two dice, hm.)

Lantern... Artefact + 2xBaldomare action (influence, expedition) + some follower actions. Feasible, but not quick. Or artefact + Baldomare action + prison and prisoner, which seems very distant.

Moth is a book (1/3 or 1/2 an action) and a single Friendship buff and an action? When we might get the friendship buff this turn? Definitely seems the closest and the safest to me!

Click to shrink...

A Friendship Buff is an action, you silly billy. So 2.3 or 2.6 Actions. And a Confidante Action since they, y'know, won't be a Confidante anymore.

And uh, we don't have any Good Friends to bump up into Confidante at the moment, just Friends to bump up into Good Friends. So actually we are 3.3/3.6 Actions away. Tremble before my maths.

 

[spiderhellian]

A Friendship Buff is an action, you silly billy. So 2.3 or 2.6 Actions. And a Confidante Action since they, y'know, won't be a Confidante anymore.

And uh, we don't have any Good Friends to bump up into Confidante at the moment, just Friends to bump up into Good Friends. So actually we are 3.3/3.6 Actions away. Tremble before my maths.

Click to shrink...

I'm thinking we're socializing this turn! And once we've got a good friend, we've got a Leash... (Fair on the forgone Confidant action, though.)

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I'm thinking we're socializing this turn! And once we've got a good friend, we've got a Leash... (Fair on the forgone Confidant action, though.)

Click to shrink...

Oh right, the extra cruel option. I suppose that makes the Moth Sacrament closer. But if we're including things the thread will never go for, then I sadly must inform you that the Wolf take it with his 2 Sacraments for 1 AP deal.

 

[spiderhellian]

Oh right, the extra cruel option. I suppose that makes the Moth Sacrament closer. But if we're including things the thread will never go for, then I sadly must inform you that the Wolf take it with his 2 Sacraments for 1 AP deal.

Click to shrink...

Moth sac with leash definitely isn't Wolf level.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Our own SH Sacrament is but two actions away and is much cooler. Just slap an SH Influence and some AotLs on us to go to town.

Click to shrink...

But when will this happen? Baldomare giving us an influence is Baldomare not scrying or not doing any of the other immensely useful things we keep needing her to do, and sticking a complete X-factor of an unknown Velvet into our current web of barely-constrained chaos is not something I'm comfortable doing.

Moth sac with leash definitely isn't Wolf level.

Click to shrink...

Well that's damning with faint praise innit?

Here's a counteroffer, Bird recently elucidated how expedition-leaders can bring in contacts that have already spent their actions on other things, such as with Selene guarding us and training but also accompanying someone on the Grave expedition, or Baldomare scrying Copper but then also attending the gatecrashing party.

If we get (and keep) more confidantes we can open more lines of attack/action on expeditions and directly increase the effectiveness of our Names. For example, sweeping up local basic expedition sites using Cheerilee and/or Applejack as the leaders and an appropriate Name or Luna as backup. That's more books, more artifacts, more reagents that we don't have to craft, and whatever else (such as a hidden ritual site perforce?) we can dig out. Heck, maybe we should consider having Baldomare or Jade check to see if there's an Oriflamme's equivalent we could be selling reagents to for cash.

 

[Greymere]

Well that's damning with faint praise innit?

Click to shrink...

It was the thing that Talon brought up in comparison, so

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

But when will this happen? Baldomare giving us an influence is Baldomare not scrying or not doing any of the other immensely useful things we keep needing her to do, and sticking a complete X-factor of an unknown Velvet into our current web of barely-constrained chaos is not something I'm comfortable doing.

Click to shrink...

What do we even need Baldomare to scry after the coming turn? Copper's cult location will undoubtedly be scried upon this coming turn. DoA's item is bottled up in her Sacrament, funnily enough, so we can't scry that any further. We can send other ponies to find a summoning site in a pinch. And we have nowhere near enough Lantern Scraps for her Lantern Sacrament to be a factor. We'll actually be in a fairly comfortable position, Baldomare-AP-wise.

As for unknown Velvets screwing with things, if one is really worried, you could have Luna and Jade escort our piloted corpus around to make sure no untowards hijinks occur.

I hope we run into Forge Velvet again, she was nice.

 

[Greymere]

But when will this happen? Baldomare giving us an influence is Baldomare not scrying or not doing any of the other immensely useful things we keep needing her to do, and sticking a complete X-factor of an unknown Velvet into our current web of barely-constrained chaos is not something I'm comfortable doing.

Click to shrink...

Baldomare giving us Sacrament is also a Baldomare not scrying or searching for expedition sites or whatever.

Like, whether we do Baldomare's Sacrament or ask her to give us an Influence so we can finish our own, Baldomare's AP is still being used for things that aren't scrying. So I don't find this a particularly compelling argument in favor of Baldomare's Sacrament.

If I really wanted to make a big stretch, I could even say it's an argument against choosing Baldomare's since, after all, we could theoretically call a SH Influence ourselves while Baldomare makes herself useful doing other things. Asking her for a SH is just more consistent.

 

[Shaper47]

What do we even need Baldomare to scry after the coming turn?

Click to shrink...

Personally I want her searching for the Outsider.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Like, whether we do Baldomare's Sacrament or ask her to give us an Influence so we can finish our own, Baldomare's AP is still being used for things that aren't scrying. So I don't find this a particularly compelling argument in favor of Baldomare's Sacrament.

Click to shrink...

If we went for Baldomare's Sacrament then that's it done and dusted with us free to apply her actions as we wish the following turn along with our nifty new Secret Histories Sacrament. If we do our Sacrament then we need an action from her for the Influence, two actions from us to attempt it, and we have no definite guarantee we won't faceplant a single-digit roll and find out why it's marked dangerous.

 

[Shaper47]

If we went for Baldomare's Sacrament then that's it done and dusted

Click to shrink...

That sacrament has dangers too you know

 

[Venerable Ro]

That sacrament has dangers too you know

Click to shrink...

Well yes, everything is dangerous, but this situation would feature us having backup for our lore checks and Baldomare seems quite confident in our ability to get it done without undue excitement.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

If we do our Sacrament then we need an action from her for the Influence, two actions from us to attempt it, and we have no definite guarantee we won't faceplant a single-digit roll and find out why it's marked dangerous.

Click to shrink...

Well we do have a re-roll, mind. So we'd need to faceplant two single-digit rolls.

 

[Shaper47]

Well we do have a re-roll, mind. So we'd need to faceplant two single-digit rolls.

Click to shrink...

We also get our artifact bonus I think.

Special properties: Gives a variable bonus (from +5 to +15) for any rolls that involve "research" or "study", of any subject.

Click to shrink...

an action dedicated to studying the memories and glimpses you have of other Histories.

Click to shrink...

 

[spiderhellian]

Here's a counteroffer, Bird recently elucidated how expedition-leaders can bring in contacts that have already spent their actions on other things, such as with Selene guarding us and training but also accompanying someone on the Grave expedition, or Baldomare scrying Copper but then also attending the gatecrashing party.

If we get (and keep) more confidantes we can open more lines of attack/action on expeditions and directly increase the effectiveness of our Names. For example, sweeping up local basic expedition sites using Cheerilee and/or Applejack as the leaders and an appropriate Name or Luna as backup. That's more books, more artifacts, more reagents that we don't have to craft, and whatever else (such as a hidden ritual site perforce?) we can dig out. Heck, maybe we should consider having Baldomare or Jade check to see if there's an Oriflamme's equivalent we could be selling reagents to for cash.

Click to shrink...

I know you'd like to have more Confidants, I agree it'd be nice. But I think the Moth powerup is going to be more relevant and more valuable than one lore 0 confidant.

Like look a little closer at your plan here:

That's 1 action for finding an expedition (assuming Lore 0 followers can achieve this, which isn't guaranteed), 1 action for going on it, ~50 bits.

And it's not like short expeditions are amazing. The Grave looks like it'll just have a Level 6 book (this is great, but it took a scry). The other one we've completed gave us:

-Gained one Artifact (Knock, level 2, unstudied) of unknown properties.

-Gained one book (Unknown Lore, if any. Requires deciphering. Progress 0/50. From the Current Era, "-20" to deciphering rolls.)

-Gained one Reagent (HEART, Level 4)

-Located a (small) hidden location in Canterlot. One-circle Rituals may be performed in Canterlot without suspicion.

-Discovered the Expedition "Beneath the Royal Castle, pt. 2"

Click to shrink...

Solid, but not incredible. Two actions over two turns and ~50 bits gets us low-level artefacts we need to study to use, books that are probably lower level than we want, and random reagents (great, but not necessarily useful). Sure we can grab an Oriflamme-equivalent to sell things, but that then takes even more time...

Moth sacrament is a notable power up! To our most important character! Right away!

I know you dream of turns where we have this great economic engine snowballing. It does sound really nice. But I don't think we'll ever be in that position, and we shouldn't seek it out when the Glory is at hand.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

We also get our artifact bonus I think.

Click to shrink...

Huh. We haven't actually tested to see if that artifact helps with this, have we? That's a really good catch if that works. @OurLadyOfWires , does that work? Would we have to test that to find out?

 

[spiderhellian]

We didn't get it on the prior roll...

[SH Sacrament – First Step, cd 110]

[Roll: 61 + 14 (Learning) + 40 (Secret Histories Level 4) = 115]

[Success]

Click to shrink...

But it might have just been forgotten about?

 

[Greymere]

We didn't get it on the prior roll...

But it might have just been forgotten about?

Click to shrink...

Tbf, our SH Sacrament isn't exactly research so much as it is taking jaunts in other Velvets' hooves. Or at least Step 1 was.