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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

We know by now that focusing on single Lore is bad for the pony stability. Mono Lantern is not healthy.
It's not. But nothing Celestia has done in a very, very long time is healthy for her.

Eclipse however, is doing the research. Hunting information down... for now. They aren't quite being healthy about it, simply because they aren't aware of the other lores. But, they are doing what they can to maintain... objectivity? Health? Required time off, forced therapy visits, conversation with people who have seen and met the same fates. They aren't doing it well, but they are doing it to the best they know, walking forward in the dark.

Give hints of Knock, because those Windigo jars will help them piece together a lot if they know of binding. Give hints of Moth, because knowing there are things that can hide beyond that which is seen with eyes is useful.
 
The question then is how do we juggle all the upkeeps for so many Names? It would be yet another drain on our resources and actions.
Baldomare is covered for 9 turns from now if we don't read the books.

Axe needs her Sacrament done to stay in the Wake so we just need to get 1 Knock scrap and give that as many actions as we can.

Biedde just needs 60 bits at minimum(no way we are gonna let him spread the word of the Colonel).

Mareinette is basically guaranteed to break free someday and we really need to work on killing her without an RA, but we just got a haul of Artifacts that could be high leveled enough to keep her past the 3rd rebinding.

The good news is that without Copper our main competition for Names is gone and Eclipse will need to cross the Branding Door and meet them in the Mansus to summon any of the Names, so them going back is not as dangerous as it was. Baldomare is easy to find and would be the first to be summoned, DoA comes next and then Biedde if they climb enough(gonna take a while for that unless Celestia does it herself).

We actually have a pretty high chance of keeping all the Names(except Mareinette) on our side as long as we don't fumble.
 
Her falling into some other cultist's hands I'm not as concerned about compared to being in Copper's hands. A hypothetical other cultist does not have a personal vendetta against Velvet. Though assuming Neighnia did lose her bindings and is fully in the Wake, I'm not sure why she would reenter servitude after becoming free. Though if she's back on the market then I'm fine trying to expand Velvet's Name hotel. The question then is how do we juggle all the upkeeps for so many Names? It would be yet another drain on our resources and actions.
It is really very easy. just have the names spend an action on making money, they can do that super well. And we absolutely should go for Neighnia a Name in the wake unbound is a much much bigger threat then any mortal could be.
 
I don't love leaving a ton of manuscripts, at some point we're definitely risking them being found out as planted.

@OurLadyOfWires Can we warn about the Worms? Or about Ash? Or about the existence of an odd, cold, painting?
Don't worry, they will probably find out about the dream world connection sooner or later depending on how much they focus on Mansus, getting eaten and possibly possessed by the Worms will obviously be the next step...
Yeah, some basic notes on them would likely go a long way
 
I'm awake, I'm awake.

First of all, good day to us all. And second, thank you all for the kind feedback! This is the kind of stuff that keeps any writer motivated, and I am no exception.

Now...

EDIT: Also this may have been the longest update ever? It's the longest thread mark at least, though that doesn't count spoilered text so maybe it's beaten by the PtN or the Nat100 book search.
Yeah, it really turned out longer than I had initially planned :V

I usually manage to write an update in one sitting. But for this one, I needed to stop to rest.

@OurLadyOfWires Pretty sure you mean "Axe's" not "Biedde's" here.
@OurLadyOfWires copyedits for Turn 20 part 2:
Thank you! I will correct these as soon as I am done posting this.





@OurLadyOfWires

Maybe something regarding fighting the Changelings? The cult did ice the Changelings primary hive and break their Queens lies enslaving Celestia.

Or something regarding the cults search for Luna and how they found out she's alive because her dream door is still around. With a literal ton of warnings about the Worms in the dreamlands?

Are these effects ok?
Perhaps throw in few more Lores in? Or @OurLadyOfWires can we encrypt manuscripts on Lores to make Bureau waste more time on it , but leave it rewarding enough so they don't abandon whole process? And if we give Bureau more Lores to study would it detract them from Lantern study?
@OurLadyOfWires, could you elaborate on what the Bureau being able to trace things back to our factions actually mean for us?
But then I realized, we've an entire pile of assorted bits and bobs right there don't we? @OurLadyOfWires, would it be possible to leave behind a suitably petty artifact in a similar vein to leaving a manuscript? Something useless to us but perfect for demonstrating the efficacy of the Lores to our Bureau?
says "One or several"; I'm not sure whether that's referring just to the number of copies we're leaving behind or the number of Lores we can reference. There is a chance Our Lady of Wires messed this up (@OurLadyOfWires to clarify) but it sounds like we may leave behind multiple manuscripts with different lores for the cost of checking that one box. If we want the Bureau or Eclipse to advance rapidly, we could give them our whole library, except maybe Lantern, to not advance the doom clock. Our library is at
I don't love leaving a ton of manuscripts, at some point we're definitely risking them being found out as planted.

@OurLadyOfWires Can we warn about the Worms? Or about Ash? Or about the existence of an odd, cold, painting?

And now, let's discuss the focus of most people's attention.

This is a short summary on how you should think about this vote.

A disclaimer, though. None of the numbers I write here are "canon", and the example-mechanics I will list here are hypothetical. I am not explaining you guys what rolls I will make, but this is a good way to translate how Velvet would face this situation, and how she would have instructed Selene to act.

So. The Bureau is going to Manehattan. That is a certainty. You were almost sure they would track your attacker (Copper) sooner or later. And given how fast they arrived in Manehattan right after the explosion indicates they either had their sights on the city, or they already had a few horseshoes on the ground doing some preliminary investigations.

Furthermore, you need to look at this from the Bureau's perspective. From their perspective, the Commissioner's attacker could be "anywhere in Equestria". And just when they narrowed down their possible location to Manehattan, something like this happens.
And this scenario will only become more suspicious to them when they connect the dots that the Commissioner's attacker was based on the site of the explosion.

Which means, again, that the Bureau will be investigating Manehattan.

Now, how would Velvet try to explain the risks that this will involve?

Think of it this way:
-The Bureau will arrive in Manehattan.
-The Bureau will roll to investigate "the Commissioner's attackers" (unknown CD) which would amount to piecing together "Copper's cult" as a criminal group.
-The Bureau will roll to investigate "what caused the explosion" (CD 159, since this is the roll that could potentially make them find Selene's tracks).
-The Bureau will roll to see if they discover anything else (unknown CD) which could involve anything from realizing "spooky magic" (the Lores) was involved, discovering about Neighnia, something else, or absolutely nothing.

Again, this is not what will really happen, but it is a good way to think about this situation.

So, how can your vote influence this? Well, for starters, remember that whatever evidence you plant WILL be discovered. Automatically, and with no risk of being overlooked.

Which means you can think about your voting options this way:
-If you plant an "obfuscating" evidence, you will raise both the "discover Selene's tracks" and the "investigate the cult" CD.
-If you plant any evidence at all (other than obfuscation), you will lower the CD of finding out about Selene (intentionally leaving tracks, even if they are doctored, still means you are leaving tracks).
-If you plant any evidence that reveals a particular piece of information (the mere existence of the Lores, Windy Flakes, Neighnia, Ponyville, etc), the Bureau will "officially" learn about that information.
-If you plant any evidence that has some degree of Lore level (a proper manuscript from your Library) the Bureau will... well, they will gain that, but you have no idea how that might impact the future.
-And finally, if you plant any evidence (even the obfuscating one), there is a chance the Bureau will simply realize it was planted there by another party (consider this a "critical failure", where your evidence is not trusted, and they catch a whiff that a third party was there before them).

And finally, I would like you all to vote for the RESULTS you want rather than the narrative. It will keep things easier for everyone involved.
EDIT: What I mean with this is "don't tell me you will write an encrypted letter about the dangers of nephrite maggots in a dream world, just tell me you want to tell the Bureau about the Worms"

Meaning that I am looking for something like this:

[Y] Plan poison the well (or: Plan poke the sun-bear with a short stick)
-[Y] Plant obfuscating evidence (make all investigations harder)
-[Y] Plant Lore manuscripts (Lanter 2, Forge 2, Heart 2, Grail 2)

So, why am I being so thorough in explaining this? Well, because this is one of those votes that has the potential of having ramifications.

You can vote for "nothing", and that will be that. You can vote to plant the Lores, and take the first step towards introducing them to the Bureau.

You can plant the Lores, and inadvertedly end up speeding Celestia's education.

Or, it might happen that you plant the Lores, and a thorough explanation on the Mansus, your investigators find that evidence, and their reaction is literally to go "Lmao, these guys were crazy", with the manuscripts being ignored, disregarded, or taken as evidence that members of that criminal faction need to be interred in a hospice.

This is one of those votes that could have unexpected consequences, and that has a big "you can't see the future, so you just don't know" hanging over it.

Remember, just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should.

That's basically it. Feel free to ask me if you need anything clarified! And good day to us all.
 
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Before the threat runs further away I want to throw an idea into the ring as well:

Why not plant the rituals for The Forge's Redemption and/or The Incision of the Heart?
Two Circle Rituals with lores that they aren't aware exists?
Along with the Implication of One Circle Rituals?

Along with the implication of, if people are clever, in a few turns... scrying?

Yes we should. But this is not the time or place.
 
Now I think about it, can we plant level 0 manuscripts despite them not being a thing in our library or would we need to give them level 1 ones?
Also yeah, scrying knowledge would really help a lot with changelings
 
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Before the threat runs further away I want to throw an idea into the ring as well:

Why not plant the rituals for The Forge's Redemption and/or The Incision of the Heart?
Before anyone asks, this suggestion is legal.

You are allowed to "plant" any information that can be reduced to writing. Rituals, Name-invocations, the existence of the Worms, Lore manuscripts, whatever. Just remember you are capped at your Library's lore levels, not Velvet's lore levels.

Now I think about it, can we plant level 0 manuscripts despite them not being a thing in our library or would we need to give them level 1 ones?
Voting for a "level 0" manuscript will just be interpreted as a "general introduction to the existence of the Lores". Something that reveals the Lores exist, but nothing with practical use.



The most important things to keep in mind, in my opinion are:
-Whether you should, and not whether you could; and
-That the evidence can still be considered crazy, unreliable, or that it might backfire in some unexpected way.

And to be abundantly clear, none of these are threats, and none of these are the QM "forcefully suggesting" you guys pick "nothing". If Velvet thought this was a horrible idea I wouldn't have offered the vote to begin with. I'm just reminding you all the dice are unpredictable, and that doing something as small as "encouraging a friend to keep faith" already had results like "Twilight Sparkle".

I'll stop doing talking about this now, before the vote opens. Don't want to look like I'm putting a thumb on the scale.
 
Mhmm. I think it may be a touch early for it, but I've got at least the goal and hope I have. And, as is my want, an explainer.

The bureau are going to investigate this this turn. The lore pieces we may or may not leave however, would likely be another turn. A turn where they would see we are asking them to investigate these hints and clues, and not investigating the Changeling threat. For this to every be... acceptable, there must be a lure. The Detectives must be able to look at The Commissioners decision and feel it is chasing the right leads. Or at least trying to chase the leads we know. Thus, we have to plant something of Moth, of the Changelings, for us to get it seen.

Then, there is an answer to the riddles that Beyond Reproach has. Not all of them can we answer cleanly. We will have to pull him aside and speak. But one such thing we can answer here. The ice. The Wendigos. Plant warnings of the jars, of the Wendigos they contain. Not the way to summon them, but the threat they pose.

Anything more and it might seem too convenient. Anything more and it is like to be lumped into a bunch of mad ravings. Anything more, and the cleverest detectives in Equestria might feel there is somehow too much. It's why, much as I feel they should learn of Knock, I left it off here. So, the plan I offer.


[ ] Plan: Secrets better left Forgotten
-[ ] Plant Lore Manuscript detailing the hiding of Changelings (Moth 1)
-[ ] Plant warning about Wendigos (Details about Wendigos and their jars, not summoning info)
 
I'd say plant 1 level of each Lore, give them a wide variety of the basics. After all, this is a perfect opportunity to begin laundering the Lores.

Besides, Celestia already knows of Lantern so bumping it from level 0 to 1 won't be that major a change, and knowing about the existence of all the other lores could lead her to dilute her focus and try to level multiple lores at once instead of Lantern, inadvertently slowing her progression.
 
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Many options on how to approach this. Don't even know what to choose. I probably should focus on one plan, but I will see how things go and adjust accordingly going forward. Also I think that voting already allowed.


Plan Forge and Forgery
-[X] Obfuscating evidence (make all investigations harder)
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (FORGE: Level 2 )


Plan Other Velvet
-[X] Obfuscating evidence (make all investigations harder)
-[X] Evidence that perpetrators planned not only to kill Velvet but also replace her (detailed study of her behavior, evidence of training in hoofwriting similar to hers and so on).


Plan Let's waste their time
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X] You planted an encrypted treatise about Lores that are decodable but meant to delay/complicate their study (Grail: Level 1, Heart: Level 1 Moth: Level 1, Knock lvl 1 )
 
This seems like it could definitely connecto the attack on us. And the don't you feel this would raise a ton of questions of how the commissioner fought one off?
Yes. Yes it will.

What is a better option? The Invesitagors finding the remaining three wendigo jars and more like than not accidentally releasing one, or three of them, causing problems untold... and then having them ask the same questions? Or addressing the questions from the first?

I said it earlier. There is a Fleeting Opportunity this turn to speak with Reproach. It is... half delayed this turn due to Velvet's status. It is most like inevitable next turn. We will have to say what we can and measure our words carefully. But it is best to do that to a team who is not half dead.
 
I think we should do a gentle nudge towards the lores, but nothing too huge. And possibly nudge towards Windy as well, sending investigators to figure out what's up for him might be nice.

[X] Plan A Gentle Nudge
-[x] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[x] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (KNOCK 1, MOTH 1)

[X] Plan A Colder Nudge
-[x] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[x] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (KNOCK 1, WINTER 1)
-[X] A "letter" sent from Windy Flakes. (Attempt to tell your investigators about Windy Flakes as a pony of interest)
 
I said it earlier. There is a Fleeting Opportunity this turn to speak with Reproach. It is... half delayed this turn due to Velvet's status. It is most like inevitable next turn. We will have to say what we can and measure our words carefully. But it is best to do that to a team who is not half dead.

No. NO. NOOOOOOOO. Get your Fleeting Opportunities out of here, next turn is Snake Turn! Securing a Name long-term and reducing their tendency to slack off is worth way more than chatting up a mortal investigator.
 
Don't know if we should introduce the lores now sooooo

[X] Nothing. (You did not plant any evidence. Better safe than sorry.)

Nothing is my choice, for now at least.
 
[X] Nothing. (You did not plant any evidence. Better safe than sorry.)

It's kind of risky right now, but if we really want to plant something...

[X] Plan Dream Warning
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X] (WRITE-IN) The Worms and their infestation of the Dreamlands

Makes it harder for the Bureau to follow up on the cult remnants, but also helps make sure that our planted evidence doesn't come to bite us in the ass.
 
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No. NO. NOOOOOOOO. Get your Fleeting Opportunities out of here, next turn is Snake Turn! Securing a Name long-term and reducing their tendency to slack off is worth way more than chatting up a mortal investigator.
Ha. You are right! But no.

I would rather not one of the preeminent investigators feel that The Commissioner is beholden to information and abilities unbeknownst to them, whilst being able to look back upon Velvet's, quite frankly, meteoric rise to where she now is. To see that, for Velvet to see that he sees that, and deems it unimportant to let him know. It is... a fast way I think to loose trust. To have Reproach begin to do his own investigations, and start to find problems.

I would prefer to shore up potential infighting before it begins.
 
Nothing is my choice, for now at least
We're going to want to introduce the lores at some point. Now seems like a pretty efficient time, we can do it for free and we know they're investigating.

I can't imagine what would make some subsequent time a better opportunity to introduce them, and it'll just take more work later on.
 
Actually @OurLadyOfWires, does including mutliple manuscripts count as multiple 'counts' against our evidence-hiding DC, or just one? Because if it only counts as one, then...

[X] Nothing. (You did not plant any evidence. Better safe than sorry.)

[X] Plan Dream Warning
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X] (WRITE-IN) The Worms and their infestation of the Dreamlands

[X] Plan A Softer, Lunar Nudge
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (KNOCK 1, MOTH 1, EDGE 1, WINTER 1, SECRET HISTORIES 1)

...might as well go for all the non-sunhorse Lores :V

Edit: And a plan for getting the Forge's Redemption into the Bureau's hands, because why not

[X] Plan Ritual Knowledge
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] (WRITE-IN) The details of the Forge's Redemption
 
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