Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Greymere]

...and I don't entirely believe that talking about the Origins of Nightmare Moon and relieving her trauma of being a bad sister counts as attempting to deal with Daybreaker/help her current condition as its not actively targeting Daybreaker with like a ritual or something its just sharing knowledge that might make her feel more emotionally stable.

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Ehhh

We've been reminded before that people aren't rational actors. I don't think it would actually convince Celestia she wasn't a bad sister. It might make it worse, even. Like "no Celestia, you weren't such a bad sister than Luna turned against you out of resentment! You just 'let' your beloved sister suffer the worst fate possible for a living thing to suffer for a thousand years."

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

You think they buy it?

They accept it because Velvet is near dead and she is all but demanding that story be the one spread. But they don't buy it.
They asked her. Explicitly! They are going to want a real answer. It is our choice whether we tell them some or all of the truth, or demand secrecy.

They are accepting of the lie we have given, because they feel it is the best for an image that Equestria needs. But they don't believe it.

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Did you miss that Mareinette when out of her way to perfectly control the narrative to be what Velvet wanted. Mareinette put out pieces of information in such a way to guide them to the chosen outcome. Yes the know their was more then 1 person attacking Velvet, but that is just the difference between the official story the government put out, and the actual report.

Officially their was only 1 attacker, but the Bureau knows their where more internally. Their a reason the Bureau had an option to go after Copper's cult, they know it was a targeted attack.

 

[BritBiscuit]

Ehhh

We've been reminded before that people aren't rational actors. I don't think it would actually convince Celestia she wasn't a bad sister. It might make it worse, even. Like "no Celestia, you weren't such a bad sister than Luna turned against you out of resentment! You just 'let' your beloved sister suffer the worst fate possible for a living thing to suffer for a thousand years."

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I'd retort that she could be reminded that she used the Elements of Harmony on her (i.e the physical artifacts of all that is good) which was probably the best chance at helping but she doesn't really have confidants to do the comforting her thing so eh.

So yeah people aren't rational actors but my hope is that whilst she would still have some guilt over the events ( I mean 1000 years of guilt doesn't go away in one revelation no matter how world changing ) at least she would have a target other than herself to focus the blame on after all enemy action gives a perpetrator to blame whereas Neglect leaves only herself. She would still hate herself but the option to focus the hatred on something other than herself might be good for her.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Yes, they do.
But they also have no idea what to make of the exsanguineated corpses. Or the missing bits. Or what spell or how she cast it. They believe she did it, yes. But they are going to ask, or at the least want, a more full report. I would bet on that. And not providing one?

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Velvet's a unicorn, a wealthy, a wealthy unicorn with the spare time to learn odd ball spells as suit her fancy.

As for the corpses we live less then a mile from the Everfree Forest, which house monsters aplenty, and weird thing like the weather moving on it own.

 

[BritBiscuit]

Hmm now that I think about it, us doing Moth-Admittance and putting evidence of the attack on Luna, what are the odds that even gets sent up to Celestia before we have a chance to damage control the Manuscripts, I mean we are the Commisioner so we would be the one reporting to Celestia personally, our Deputy Shining Armour is the husband of Candance whom is on our side and so he would likely confront us about the evidence before sending it to Celestia as he wants to know what his friends hoofwriting is doing there which gives a Leash opportunity and our detectives likely don't really have access to Celestia.

We might be able to pull of a evidence cover up within the Bureau before we escalate the Luna evidence up the chain which whilst we'd get grief for not doing so immediatly we could say we were looking into it slightly not to waste Celestias time and cause uneccisary heartache by bringing up her missing sister.

So this vote is more for what knowledge does the Bureau get and in future we can pick which bits of that laundered knowledge we send up the chain after removing the incriminating bits.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

We explicitly cannot cover up evidence form any source.

 

[BritBiscuit]

We explicitly cannot cover up evidence form any source.

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That may be the case but I haven't read that so I might have missed it whilst skimming so could you please provide a source.
We can't cover evidence for trials for the Day Court from what I understand but this is just a investigation with no suspects/prisoners from my understanding so I don't think it applys there.

Edit: and I don't mean cover up before the investigators get there as that was a roll in the expedition I mean that whilst the Bureau would know about the manuscripts hopefully with our recent actions to gain loyalty and the fact we kinda control the info that gets sent up the chain via being the one on next to the top of it, we could only send the bits we want Celestia to know up.

 

[Greymere]

I'd retort that she could be reminded that she used the Elements of Harmony on her (i.e the physical artifacts of all that is good) which was probably the best chance at helping but she doesn't really have confidants to do the comforting her thing so eh.

So yeah people aren't rational actors but my hope is that whilst she would still have some guilt over the events ( I mean 1000 years of guilt doesn't go away in one revelation no matter how world changing ) at least she would have a target other than herself to focus the blame on after all enemy action gives a perpetrator to blame whereas Neglect leaves only herself. She would still hate herself but the option to focus the hatred on something other than herself might be good for her.

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Maybe under better circumstances, but Celestia is currently a hair's breadth away from going full Daybreaker on all of Esquestria. I really can't see it helping that situation at all, no matter if she directs her hatred inward or outward. It still feeds the Mega Rage Horse within.

 

[spiderhellian]

Yeah given how varyingly pissed and disappointed Celestia is in Ponykind, I don't think it'll help for her to know that what happened with Luna actually was some Ponies fault.

 

[Sintonir]

I think admitting the cult was involved in the Luna disappearance is... extremely unwise. At least for now.
Telling about the cause for the Nightmare Moon, on the other hand, would be reasonable, if they were likely to believe it.
Actually... @OurLadyOfWires is it possible to point out how to reach the Dreamlands without at least MOTH-ANONYMOUS? Because not only would it let Eclipse see the damage to Dreamlands with their own eyes and verify the Worms a bit, it is likely to occupy them for some time. To make them search for Luna instead of trying to reach higher.
On how warning about Windigos would help if they find the jars: a very simple solution would be for Celestia to open the jars one by one. A bit less ideal solution would be to prepare a strike team to open the jars, again, one by one, but then it is almost certain there would be deaths.

 

[Sveta08]

Did you miss that Mareinette when out of her way to perfectly control the narrative to be what Velvet wanted. Mareinette put out pieces of information in such a way to guide them to the chosen outcome. Yes the know their was more then 1 person attacking Velvet, but that is just the difference between the official story the government put out, and the actual report.

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No.

Did you miss the fact the Detectives still asked Velvet for more information on her near-deathbed?

Yes we shaped the narrative. But we also invited the bureau in, and they aren't stupid.

 

[Alan975]

[] Plan Mental Health and No Dreamlands for little ponies

...Hm, I do like this one.

If Shaper's suggestion doesn't work, then it with a little windigo added -or switched with worms- would be best.


Oh, and be careful now to not fall back into circular arguments.


If we don't tell them about Windigos, then the immediate problem is that they think that we did fancy ice/blood magic.

If we do, then they know that we have the magic to kill a windigo.

So, you know...
Might as well start to plan for how to explain our "Magic"

 

[Nevermort]

So yeah people aren't rational actors but my hope is that whilst she would still have some guilt over the events ( I mean 1000 years of guilt doesn't go away in one revelation no matter how world changing ) at least she would have a target other than herself to focus the blame on after all enemy action gives a perpetrator to blame whereas Neglect leaves only herself. She would still hate herself but the option to focus the hatred on something other than herself might be good for her.

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Bad for everyone else though. I mean she was extremely frustrated with nobles who dragged search for Luna and almost blew up one of them. Celestia would absolutely blow up her casket if she learns that her little ponies hurt Luna so much. I would expect order to torture out information out of captured cultists, perhaps even executing them overruling Fair Trial. At worst if she thinks that cultists got Luna and held her somewhere she would give us short timer, and if we fail to get Luna by then will take things in her hoofs Daybreaker style.

 

[Alan975]

At worst if she thinks that cultists got Luna and held her somewhere she would give us short timer, and if we fail to get Luna by then will take things in her hoofs Daybreaker style.

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Aha! And then she'd be too busy to Lantern up! Problem solved.

 

[spiderhellian]

One thing I think people are under-appreciating is how good a chance this is tor introducing the lores.

Do we want the Lunar Bureau to have access to them or not?

If so, we should do that now.

Anything else is going to take more effort and AP on our part later, while we get this action for free. It's also going to be more suspicious — finding the intro to lores when raiding Changelings or in a pre-prepared expedition is so much sketchier than finding it associated with the Cult.

And given that it'll take time for the LB to actually understand the Lores after they're introduced, we need that to get started ASAP.

I think we should definitely take Lore-1, and strongly consider Lore-3 as well.

 

[Alan975]

If so, we should do that now.

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very yes and thank you. If people are willing to take more risk then I'd gladly vote for Lore option 2-4

 

[Bakkasama]

One thing I think people are under-appreciating is how good a chance this is tor introducing the lores.

Do we want the Lunar Bureau to have access to them or not?

If so, we should do that now.

Anything else is going to take more effort and AP on our part later, while we get this action for free. It's also going to be more suspicious — finding the intro to lores when raiding Changelings or in a pre-prepared expedition is so much sketchier than finding it associated with the Cult.

And given that it'll take time for the LB to actually understand the Lores after they're introduced, we need that to get started ASAP.

I think we should definitely take Lore-1, and strongly consider Lore-3 as well.

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On the other hoof, our manuscripts are likely in the custody of the Bureau right now and the more they believe in the lores and that this cult had access to them, the more incriminating they are. If the Bureau does not believe in spooky magic, the manuscripts only prove that the cult got ahold of something of ours. If they believe in spooky magic, the manuscripts prove that we knew about it already.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Personally I'm not in favor of windigoes or a smoking gun, both options seem very likely to create objectives for our Bureau that we either don't want to achieve or genuinely cannot achieve.

The Bureau actually securing a windigo jar for example, where would we actually go from there? There it is, horrible gribbly murder in a box, and now the murdery box is in our Bureau, then what would we do with it?

Ditto the smoking gun, telling Sun Pony we have a lead on the ones who took away her sister will lead to her very politely charging us with bringing her a head on a spike.

Or perhaps a whole pony and a spike so she can do it herself.

I don't want to be the one disappointing the sun pony with a lack of spikes and heads to put on them...

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You haul the horrible gribbly far, far away. And if you are feeling particularly daring, you crack open the jar by itself with a metric ton of combatants ready to fire everything they have at the moment of release. The Windigo is something of a sitting target while in its jar after all.

At least, that's how a mundane force of ponies would handle these things.

Or you stick the jar into a very strong enchanted metal cube and wait for the hateful scratching, banging, and howling to fall silent.

The issue with this is that the planted evidence of the Windigos as a warning won't do anything as soon as you think it will.

The evidence needs to be found, then it goes back to the headquarters, then somepony has to read it, then somepony has to examine it to make sure it's not totally fake and then a report needs to be made. All the while the Bureau's expedition is ongoing.

By the time the Bureau understands the Windigo information the raids will be over and done with.

It won't change anything, time just doesn't work like that.

It's like Velvet using an artifact or reading a book she found while an expedition she's on isn't finished.

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Generally and typically in emergency scenarios warnings of hazardous materials are treated as valid by default, because waiting for the chain of command to examine things and give the go-ahead to be careful takes a fair amount of time that people could be exposing themselves to danger. It is up to command to order people to ignore such warnings if it is determined such hazards are in fact not present.

Maybe I am forgetting something but wasn't it stated at some point that if our rivals summoned Names then they would act as leaders of sub-cults? I gathered that the reason that Neighea was not in Manehattan was because she was sent to another city to stablish another base/branch of it. So it is possible that the Wendigos are in her hoofs and that we have to deal with two cults, Neighea's (now that Copper isn't there it makes sense that she would go independent since it sounded like her summoning was closer to Mareinette's than Axe's) focused on Winter in an unknown city and the remains of Copper's (which might be absorbed by Neighea's) focused on either Grail or Moth in Manehattan.

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It is possible Neighnia has the Windigos. It is equally possible that Copper kept the Windigos closer to home for her own uses, or simply divvied up jars between the branches.

And we are easily capable of taking care of it ourselves, throw a RoT at them and then send Biedde to go clean them up. And by clean them up I mean kill them off.

Honestly, I really don't think the windigos are in Manehatten, considering what we got from Mareinette. That was an extremely high threshold she blew through to "find movable assets", call it an assumption but if the jars were there to be evacuated she would have found them or more accurately she would have been informed of them. "several of the cult's precious items" wouldn't warrant an entire cart unless they were, bulky.

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Again, I don't think any cult (other than a Wolf Cult), will refer to Windigos as "precious items". They are too awful for such kind words. And again, the issue is the Bureau finding the jars during their investigation this turn. And in a world of cursed objects and dangerous magics, a warning to not poke dangerous magical objects leads to the upper echelons being

But they also have no idea what to make of the exsanguineated corpses. Or the missing bits. Or what spell or how she cast it. They believe she did it, yes. But they are going to ask, or at the least want, a more full report. I would bet on that. And not providing one?

What do you think that's going to do to them? That we don't trust them with the truth? The people we have and have set up to seek the truth, the dark secrets and evils of the world? They will want to know, even if nothing else, so they know what to look for!

They think she did it, but the pieces don't quite fit. They won't. We are going to have to tell them something.

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Well the missing bits they think they just missed. Or were snatched up by some sort of animal. Because the remains of our attackers were strewn about an entire clearing like a charnel house. Really the only thing that doesn't add up for them is the total exsanguination.

And they already had their full report request shut down by Velvet. That ship has sailed.

 

[Greymere]

Well the missing bits they think they just missed. Or were snatched up by some sort of animal. Because the remains of our attackers were strewn about an entire clearing like a charnel house. Really the only thing that doesn't add up for them is the total exsanguination.

And they already had their full report request shut down by Velvet. That ship has sailed.

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I don't think it was her shutting their report down forever so much as she didn't want them talking about disemboweled and half-eaten corpses around the rest of her family. Considering she specified that "no one in this house" should hear anything that contradicts the current story.

 

[Venerable Ro]

I get the windigo concerns, and honestly they've been chewed over more than Ash's favorite bones. Not much use in hashing them out anymore.

This Worm thing though, it's flown in out of left field and I think it needs to go back to left field. This is not, contrary to what first impressions might convey, our singular and only chance to impart information, it's just the first and probably best opportunity to do it anonymously. Once we've managed to incorporate the Lores, assuming we haven't done something to get everything confiscated, we will personally be in the running. That is after all, one of the main points, using being skilled at the Lores to obfuscate how skilled we are at the Lores.

Therefore, there is absolutely nothing stopping us from going back to the Dreamlands and "discovering" the Worms on the Bureau's time as it were. If anything it would provide a far more convincing account, since we enjoy a much better reputation than dubiously attributed notes found in a wrecked cultist base.

On the subject of the "smoking gun", Celestia is neither stable nor understanding right now, Chrysalis found out exactly how forgiving she's feeling, the extent of her mercy. We do not have so tight a grip on our Bureau's loyalty that the smoking gun option wouldn't leak, and once it did we would not be allowed to do anything but bring Luna's assailants before the Solar Throne with all possible alacrity. It's not just a matter of finding a scapegoat, because what Celestia wants is Luna, and every failed lead (the cultists will never be able to produce her) will drive Celestia to greater wrath.

 

[Gyldir]

So, the planting evidence time has come.
What I'd like:

• Mansus
  • Needed for next point.
• The way to the dreamland
  • A fat juicy lure for Celestia. Dreamland is so tightly connected to Luna, it would be the perfect excuse why we (Covers + Bureau) need to deal with this Mansus thing. Its a lead to our task of finding Luna.
• A warning on the worms.
  • Without this the way to the dreamlands would be a very dangerous trap.
• A Lore at lvl 1.
  • A first Lore is both a reason to investigate and it normalizes us finding more Lores.
    • Only one with us finding the others later, because we do not know yet into whose hooves this evidence will get. Celestia could share it with her mystic researchers Eclipse. (They did make lanterndust, after all)
    • NOT Lantern. Its very cool, true. But its also bad to have pointed at you when you have a dangerous secret. *vaguely waves at PtN, Luna, and Celestias mental instability*
    • Secret Histories or Moth for mind fuckery? Winter for calmness?

 

[Arrkhon]

This Worm thing though, it's flown in out of left field and I think it needs to go back to left field. This is not, contrary to what first impressions might convey, our singular and only chance to impart information, it's just the first and probably best opportunity to do it anonymously. Once we've managed to incorporate the Lores, assuming we haven't done something to get everything confiscated, we will personally be in the running. That is after all, one of the main points, using being skilled at the Lores to obfuscate how skilled we are at the Lores.

Therefore, there is absolutely nothing stopping us from going back to the Dreamlands and "discovering" the Worms on the Bureau's time as it were. If anything it would provide a far more convincing account, since we enjoy a much better reputation than dubiously attributed notes found in a wrecked cultist base.

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The problem there is that once lores are introduced ponies are going to end up in crossroads and once that happens all that's needed for them to find dreamland is one of these inquisitive and smart ponies to decide that walking away from Glory could be a good idea and then it's a short road to a really close encounter with Worms and I'm not sure we can warn them before it happens
By the way, @OurLadyOfWires is dreamland entrance visible from stairs to White Door? Trees used to block the view there I think but our son ate them

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Right now Celestia's Lantern Cult is busy trying to reach Baldomare's Beacon. Do not bring up the Dreamlands, do not have Sunhorse start a crusade into the land of doors and Worms. She is not ready, just like Luna was not ready, and like Luna, she also won't listen to reason on the matter. Worms can be talked about later, when people are better equipped to handle them. They can continue mindlessly licking at doors.

Better to warn of dangers in the Wake, that can reach people here and now.

 

[Pittauro]

Truly, she is the best adopted-alicorn-daughter you have.

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she's also the ONLY adopted-alicorn-daughter we have at least for now

-[] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)
--[] [LORE-ONE] You planted something that, in its own narrow way, has some practical use. (One Lore shared, counts as "two" evidence)
--[] [LORE-THREE] You planted a small trove of useful information. More than enough to hook in the curious and the brave. (Three Lores shared, counts as "three" evidence)
--[] [LORE-FIVE] The Lores have their own internal logic. This should be enough for them to get it... that is, if they believe what they read. (Five Lores shared, counts as "four" evidence)

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well, we get a discount if we go heavier on this

-[] [FORGE-RITUAL] You planted a set of instructions, on how to perform a miraculous feat. (Share "The Forge's Redemption". Counts as "one" evidence)

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this is tempting, but without LORE-THREE to include Forge and Grail it might be a bit pointless.

Unless we just pretend the ritual "clicks" with Velvet, and she learns grail and forge from it.

Not sure if that's believable though. Maybe if we pair it with at least Lore-One?

-[] [MOTH-ANONYMOUS] You planted a cold gun. It's up to them to connect the dots. (Share "The Path Through Nightmares". Counts as "one" evidence)

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If we want to reveal the cult's role in Luna's tragedy

-[] [MOTH-ADMITTING] You planted the smoking gun, that was used to strike Princess Luna. (Share "The Path Through NIghtmares", AND a claim it was used against Luna. Counts as "one" evidence)

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This might be a bit much, honestly.

-[] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)

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tempting. All things considered I'm now more interested in this.

-[] [WORMS] Of course it sounds like the raving of a madpony. You felt like tearing your mane out just by writing it. Because why is nopony else worried about this?! (Share knowledge about the Worms, as unlikely as it is to be believed. Counts as "one" evidence)

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no. Just... they won't believe it anyway.

As it is stated above, Velvet will be the one to decide what Lores to plant. This is both because she has a better grasp of what is easier/quicker/more useful to start with, and because leaking Lore-levels will not translate to the Bureau immediately gaining/applying said Lore level anyways.
However, Velvet Covers does not know about Celestia's doom clock. So, I must warn you that "Lore Three" and "Lore Five" WILL include leaking some degree of Lantern. That may or may not have narrative consequences down the line, if picked.

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ouch. we probably want to avoid lore three and five then.

The cultists aren't going to be throwing Windigos everywhere unless something serious goes wrong.

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tentative counter argument: at least SOME cultists were loyal to Copper due to Grail. Some kind of revenge attempt or terrorist attack is not out of the question.

It's unlikely, cultists TEND to be selfish. But it's not impossible.

Also the warnings would likely include their traits, like the "after a fight it recovers all its health, so no point in trying to progressively hurt it through multiple fights".

Okay, I see your point now, but consider this: Velvet will be healthy next turn. She can arrive there, skip all of that and give orders on the spot. That makes the warning useful because we can act on it.

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Or, hear me out, we scry the things and then have Biedde go "defuse" the windigoes. Or perhaps we acquire them and then send him out into the wilderness with a cart of windigo jars.

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both are possibilities

So, how many pieces of evidence are y'all comfy with?
I could go for 4

WINDIGOS, MOTH-ADMITTING, maybe WORMS and some Lore sprinkled on top

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3 at most.

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I'd rather keep to three or less. Four is my absolute limit, but it would have to be a really good combo.

Right now I'm leaning just one lore and forge. maybe one lore, forge, and basics of other lores too.

the lore would likely be Forge if paired with redemption ritual.

I'm unsure about revealing PtN.

I'm against revealing worms.

I'm undecided about Windigoes.

Yes, I do believe we should. One expedition, one AP really, and we've a Sacrament. We'd have had it ages ago except for the waffling.

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hell no! I'm definitely committed to Velvet's.

At this point we'll probably finish it on turn 22, while doing Axe's on turn 21.

maybe we can even rush through the Moth one's if we feel it's necessary next turn, though I'm not convinced about it yet (depending on result of Mareinette's social action).

1: Yes. Most seem to be in agreement that the Wendigos are in fact, a threat and a problem. Those who think they can be dealt with by mortal means seem to be ignoring very real statistics. So, yes. A problem.

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best non-velvet solutions to Windigoes are basically

1)give warning and hope they have a whole platoon of guards to fight the Windigo once it breaks free

2)As above, but hope they have CELESTIA present instead.

Therefore, there is absolutely nothing stopping us from going back to the Dreamlands and "discovering" the Worms on the Bureau's time as it were. If anything it would provide a far more convincing account, since we enjoy a much better reputation than dubiously attributed notes found in a wrecked cultist base.

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uh. this is a very good point.

it's technically EASY to reach the dreamlands. so a "recently awakened" Velvet COULD pretend to have stumbled upon them and having only barely managed to avoid them, while STRONGLY encouraging everyone in both the bureau and eclipse to NOT go there through personal experience.

It might still be a bad idea though. Right now the Bureau and Eclipse and everyone else are likely to just ignore the Dreamrealms, as they're the OPPOSITE direction from Glory. If we tell them there's something interesting there, EVEN if it's dangerous, someone WILL eventually try it.

 

[Venerable Ro]

hell no! I'm definitely committed to Velvet's.

At this point we'll probably finish it on turn 22, while doing Axe's on turn 21.

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Hold on now, just give me an ear. The (tentative) plan is to get a SH Influence off of Baldomare and then go bull on Axe's Sacrament with like 3-4 AP or however much we can scrape together.

I would like to insert a caveat that if we get it done without burning through all that AP and if it doesn't generate an immediate AP decision, we'd take that SH Influence and go off on Baldomare's Sacrament, which is described as an expedition that only takes one AP.

With a bit of Velvet-brand luck we could have both done by the end of next turn and be set for high level exploration such as whatever comes next with the Outsider.

it's technically EASY to reach the dreamlands. so a "recently awakened" Velvet COULD pretend to have stumbled upon them and having only barely managed to avoid them, while STRONGLY encouraging everyone in both the bureau and eclipse to NOT go there through personal experience.

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Going to the Dreamlands was literally the first thing Velvet ever did in the Mansus, and marked the beginning of her tendency towards absurd rolls as she made a DC 60 check with nothing but her learning bonus, as she had no Knock and no Secret Histories.

Heh, we could go bother Beyond Reproach in his dreams with a cheery "hey look what I figured out how to do!"

Edit: Actually, come to think of it we could even bust into his dream and slam the metaphysical door behind us before telling him something to the effect of "you do not want to know what's out there, but I'm going to tell you anyway. We need to make sure there aren't any accidents..."

 

[Sintonir]

Therefore, there is absolutely nothing stopping us from going back to the Dreamlands and "discovering" the Worms on the Bureau's time as it were. If anything it would provide a far more convincing account, since we enjoy a much better reputation than dubiously attributed notes found in a wrecked cultist base.

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This is a great point, actually.
This means Dreamlands info is going from "I prefer the plan with this" to "meh, not really good, not really bad" for me.
So my plan would be something like:
[]Plan: Lore and bombs
-[] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)
--[] [LORE-ONE] You planted something that, in its own narrow way, has some practical use. (One Lore shared, counts as "two" evidence)
-[] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)
I would prefer keeping planted evidence to minimum, so Forge Redemption is also out for me. We can launder that knowledge in the future, if we officially have Lore knowledge. For now IMO it seems too unbelievable and can cast a shadow on everything else.

 

[Shaper47]

Also, if we are giving everything we know about Wendigos, then info on how to maintain the jars would be in it. So I doubt we would have to worry about it opening in our custody.

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It doesn't work like that.

They need lore to maintain the jars and it takes a while to get that lore.

Also the warnings would likely include their traits, like the "after a fight it recovers all its health, so no point in trying to progressively hurt it through multiple fights".

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Is that even necessary or a good thing?

Like, to the question of who's going to be able to summon Windigos. We have Windy and the Winter Name.

Then the question is if we want to send the Bureau after them. Which given the loot and ease of our personal expeditions, probably not.

Windigos are a great excuse to prosecute cultists but do we want too? Fair Trial would be an issue there due to past actions.

With us most likely to be the sole holder of Windigos releasing information may be unwise due to leaking to future enemies.

 

[spiderhellian]

we'd take that SH Influence and go off on Baldomare's Sacrament, which is described as an expedition that only takes one AP

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Alas, her Sacrament takes a Baldomare action, which means we couldn't do it the same turn she gives us an influence.

(And while I don't disagree with you on the Sacrament, I would note the thread has pretty consistently demonstrated a preference for our personal one, and I'm not very confident try as changed.)

 

[Shaper47]

The (tentative) plan is to get a SH Influence off of Baldomare and then go bull on Axe's Sacrament with like 3-4 AP or however much we can scrape together.

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The QM had this Velvet and DoA conversation about her Sacrament and she didn't mention influences as something being useful. So probably not getting an SH influence from Baldomare next turn.

Personal Sacrament is much preferred for its favour and direction I'll mention.

 

[Pittauro]

I would like to insert a caveat that if we get it done without burning through all that AP and if it doesn't generate an immediate AP decision, we'd take that SH Influence and go off on Baldomare's Sacrament, which is described as an expedition that only takes one AP.

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sorry, I'm personally committed to Velvet's Sacrament. I just find it more interesting narratively.

If we had leftover APs AND the SH Reroll (or even just the influence and full health, really) up, I'd just put that extra AP on the personal Sacrament.

if Mareinette managed to bring Spoiled Rich to Confidant in this action though I might be tempted to go for Moth Sacrament... though I'd REALLY prefer to remove our scar first, just in case our traumatic memories might affect it somehow.

Also hey, depending on what Mareinette found we might instead want to study books or artifacts! Getting more artifacts up means our Names can do more stuff with them, both on expeditions and in terms of rituals, and the artifact effects can help in other ways as well.


SH Artifact helped us in all of our research, including Outsider and studying books and artifacts.

Heartifact helps us heal... well, at least when we're not just paying for the automatic healing, I suppose.

Edge would give us a chance to flee in case of danger.

We still don't know what Lantern 4 and Knock 2 do, but as a tier 4 artifact the Lantern 4 should be better than all of them... and Mareinette likely found a few more...

Going to the Dreamlands was literally the first thing Velvet ever did in the Mansus, and marked the beginning of her tendency towards absurd rolls as she made a DC 60 check with nothing but her learning bonus, as she had no Knock and no Secret Histories.

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Velvet KNEW there was a connection to the dreamlands though, didn't she? I think the Master pointed her that way.

It's telling that no cultist ever reported going to the dreamlands and finding the worms. Or, if they did, at least the worms didn't manage to possess them, so there's that at least.

The QM had this Velvet and DoA conversation about her Sacrament and she didn't mention influences as something being useful. So probably not getting an SH influence from Baldomare next turn.

Personal Sacrament is much preferred for its favour and direction I'll mention.

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actually the talk basically was summed up as "she's not telling you much. It seems like more Knock won't be of great help, but other lores are likely to help". Basically we have reason to believe SOME lores will be involved in rolls, but we have no idea which ones (I'm expecting a pseudo-expedition, kinda like the mansus expeditions). SH is just our best guess for what's likely to come in handy.