Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[ses]

That sounds both vastly unpleasant to relitigate and also like you're trying to clumsily get one over on people by tricking them into letting the thread commit in another direction.

Honestly I'm kind of upset with the extra day of voting if it changes the outcome for a reason that has nothing to do with the actual update that was posted and just people being worn down.

 

[Sveta08]

I mean, even if Cannibalism is cringe wins, we can just vote the "do the moth and grail sacrament together" option when it comes a time to renovate Mareinette's bindings as was originally planned, which doesn't need a prison nor the hunt of a prisoner as it uses Spoiled Rich. It is the most efficient option AP wise.

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If my options are to vote for Hill or Spoiled to be used in the Sacrament, I would vote Hill. If the options are Hill or a random prisoner, it would be the prisoner. Same if it was Spoiled and a prisoner.
Spoiled is a brat, but she doesn't deserve that.

Edit: Oh. And to clarify.

Honestly I'm kind of upset with the extra day of voting if it changes the outcome for a reason that has nothing to do with the actual update that was posted and just people being worn down.

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I am not talking "Worn down via arguments" kinda way. I mean "I've been sitting and rotating this in my mind for several days and got to the point that I can finally say, "I think I made the wrong first call and will beat myself up if I just just sticking to my guns"" kinda way.

 

[spiderhellian]

That is a funny possibility. Cannablism is Cringe into double-Sacrament with Spoiled. A nice one-two punch. Indeed, I think it is the most likely outcome!

...Maybe if Cherenkolt was doing a Forge lesson rather than something I think will be highly ineffective.

But I do agree. I thought I was only going to have the Sacrament fight once and it'd be finally done, now apparently it's being had a second time, and god I don't want to have to have it a third.

 

[Witherbrine2671]

I haven't been paying attention to the specifics of the argument but while I do adore the idea of using Velvet Hill as the Grail food this close to the end I think it's a poor idea. There is so much that could go wrong, and causing such instability this late is a very poor idea.

Yet at the same time we need the Grail Sacrament, and personally speaking I want to befriend Mareintte. So I'll vote for a plan, even if it's not likely to win.

[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping

 

[ses]

All we have to do is put Hill right on the Bureau's list of priorities and it'll never get accomplished. A literal proto-hive of the monsters the Bureau were specifically created to hunt got delayed by two whole months because the Bureau has so few actions and something came up. And we haven't been punished for putting The Changeling Threat on the backburner. You think Hill can't just sit on the backburner for the foreseeable future? Let the local police handle it? It's not like ANYONE in real power gives a shit about the nobles opinions anymore.

I just don't think any sort of "fallout" is an actual risk we need to worry about, the QM comments have been pretty clear that it's a "This will be a moment of personal horror and the reader will Feel Guilty". Not that Hill isn't perfectly fine to assault for normal assault an opponent reasons. Compare to all the fearmongering about the risks of Assaulting Copper that led us to delay and delay out of worries of "fallout" and then when we finally got pushed into pressing the button by almost dying it worked out great.

The Names are more than enough for this and to keep any sort of suspicion off our backs. The aftermath is not going to cause problems for us personally, beyond rising general temperature of "populace tension", which is still going to be orders of magnitude less bad in terms of fallout then another RA, which is being sold as the BEST CASE scenario for not doing Grail Sacrament.

 

[spiderhellian]

Going after a regular prisoner just seems so... lame. When there's girldinner or reverse crime of the sky on the table. Those are narrative powerhouses! Capturing a mook is not. And y'know, I'm sure Bird will pull through, but what a missed opportunity.

Going after Dad is just more interesting than going after a random.

 

[Nevermort]

I mean if you think this could be less problematic or the same as some random criminal disappearing okay. Bringing up concerns about potential consequences isn't "making shit up". We're literally voting to disappear a noble from the capital. Sure ever action can have consequences, but some actions cause greater ripples in the world then others. Killing a Name, killing a ruler, or even just killing a noble has a greater ripple effect then killing someone random. Hell even killing Copper arguably only really had a major influence because we let it be known we were attacked. If we her death wouldn't have garnered near as much attention.

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Every action if failed will bring consequences. But ideally would be to make Hill disappear in such way that no one will think that he was attacked. Kidnap him then have Mareinette greet his servants while looking like Hill to say that something just came up and he need to leave on extended trip. Then send a letter from him stating that he found wonderful mare and will go with her overseas. Or lure him out of his mansion for kidnapping,I think there is less problems with nobles if they don't afraid being attacked in their homes.

Going after a regular prisoner just seems so... lame. When there's girldinner or reverse crime of the sky on the table. Those are narrative powerhouses! Capturing a mook is not. And y'know, I'm sure Bird will pull through, but what a missed opportunity.

Going after Dad is just more interesting than going after a random.

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I agree entirely.

 

[Cochimetl]

To make sure people understand what kind of stuff they're getting into, I ask that you read this:

Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience Crossover - Mature - Users' Choice!

You gave me a plot bunny and now I can't sleep. (PS: I'll catch up to the thread later, as I said.) - - - WARNING This piece of literature is meant for mature audiences, and its content includes or may include themes that involve the following subjects: If you do not wish to be exposed to...

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

This is the kind of stuff we can expect from it.
If you've read it and want more of that, fine, but I want the thread to know what taking the Grail Sacrament will be like.

 

[Shaper47]

Taking Baldomare's SH Sacrament would be a fun read.

Probably no moral quandaries and horror there.

 

[Pororurin]

[X] Plan: Devouring the Sky
[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

*Grumbles in prisoner chomping being vague about what sort of criminal gets eaten and not punching the Hive when it could be really cool.*

*Grumbles harder at Hill causing more problems dead than alive at this stage.*

[X] Plan: Cannibalism is Cringe

[X] Plan: Let's Not Kidnap a Prominent Figure From Canterlot

[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping

What really irks me is that Prisoner Chomping is so very close to Let's Not, where the only difference is in two areas I deeply care about: cool scenes of Velvet dismantling a proto-hive while under massive Influences (Edge/Lantern is like the optimal combo for this, it'd be sooooo effective), and being sure we eat someone Velvet knows to be truly horrific, rather than any old criminal. But alas, it seems like Velvet will avoid every hive assault that comes up.

 

[spiderhellian]

What really irks me is that Prisoner Chomping is so very close to Let's Not, where the only difference is in two areas I deeply care about: cool scenes of Velvet dismantling a proto-hive while under massive Influences (Edge/Lantern is like the optimal combo for this, it'd be sooooo effective), and being sure we eat someone Velvet knows to be truly horrific, rather than any old criminal. But alas, it seems like Velvet will avoid every hive assault that comes up.

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Lmfao it's funny because we are very divided on this vote but man oh man this is me with Graven Commissioner and Commander.

It'll be so cool! Velvet bursting illusions with a thought, and bringing Biedde's knife to bear on the Changelings.

But I can't really suggest people vote for it and not Devouring the Sky because of that pesky plan sitting between them

 

[ses]

It'll be so cool! Velvet bursting illusions with a thought, and bringing Biedde's knife to bear on the Changelings.

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Also higher chance of being able to siphon loot, and a chance at free Edge Sacrament, and a chance at figuring out what the heck the Silver Key does

I do admit that just advancing our cult lores is practical, but I think we can afford this one turn.

 

[spiderhellian]

God heck yeah, I almost forgot about the Silver Key opportunity. My kingdom for a Silver Key opportunity, I want to know what our first sacrament actually does. My kingdom for

[X] Plan: Graven Commissioner and Commander

 

[ses]

QM absolutely trolling us with us finally getting a Sacrament after half the quest of being brick walled on SH sacrament because of losing Baldomare, only for "Your Sacrament perks are in another castle!" Doesn't even have the decency to give a hint as to where that castle is grumble grumble

 

[angelsadvocate666]

[X] Plan: Cannibalism is Cringe

 

[Nevermort]

I...

Very well.
I am worn, I am tired, and this has filled me with too much agony. Even if it is a good story and would be beautiful in the worst of ways. Even if I am certain Mareinette would have thoughts.

I cannot allow the "Cannibalism is Cringe" to succeed, as we will be delayed, and fight this same fight again nest turn. And I don't think I could withstand that

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I have bad news for you chef. We will have the same fight no matter that. Only binding vote for Mareienette Sacrament will be vote for Mareienette Sacrament itself. Until then just vote for what you like more, or at least pace yourself as there are more fights to be had.

Let's say Cannibalism is Cringe wins. Then we will have a nice choice between Spoiled and no Grail Sacrament next turn. Black and white. I quite like it.

Say Hill's expedition wins. But all comments about how there may be upheaval if he disappears are valid and actual goal of expedition decided later. And we still need bits. So deciding to limit ourself to stealing from him during expedition vote is absolutely valid and safe option.

Say we get prisoner be it Hill or random criminal. Well, it is not like we don't have any other uses for prisoners. I like our personal Lantern Sacrament. It seems like some kind of telepathy or at least instinctive understanding of ponies. Something like ability to speed up pony befriending would be incredibly useful, more useful than better book reading at least.

Also capture criminal option is most likely to fail, as there are actually not that many truly terrible ponies in Equestria. It is not some third world country. It is likely better than any real live countries actually. In this quest such ponies exist but almost certainly not in Ponyvilee and there is not many of them overall. And if DoA captures some murderer, well closest to home killers that we know of are from Soft grief group so there is that. And if action fails then we are back between Spoiled and no Grail Sacramnet.

And if next payment for Mareinette is something that we can pay expect votes to pay her

You'll just disappoint yourself if you overestimate this vote importance.

 

[Greymere]

Say we get prisoner be it Hill or random criminal. Well, it is not like we don't have any other uses for prisoners. I like our personal Lantern Sacrament. It seems like some kind of telepathy or at least instinctive understanding of ponies. Something like ability to speed up pony befriending would be incredibly useful, more useful than better book reading at least.

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So eating someone's body is cringe, but eating someone's soul is perfectly fine?

 

[ses]

Eat someone's body- Prevent a full powered Name from becoming an enemy, gain a full powered Name as a Friend, get a marginal Sacrament unlock
Eat someone's brain: Spend a Velvet AP and make a CD 100 Lantern roll for the privilege of saving 1 Baldomare AP and getting a slightly different flavor of sacrament than was on offer for basically free.

 

[Solace2117]

Every action if failed will bring consequences. But ideally would be to make Hill disappear in such way that no one will think that he was attacked. Kidnap him then have Mareinette greet his servants while looking like Hill to say that something just came up and he need to leave on extended trip. Then send a letter from him stating that he found wonderful mare and will go with her overseas. Or lure him out of his mansion for kidnapping,I think there is less problems with nobles if they don't afraid being attacked in their homes.

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Not all consequences are the same. Failing say a book search doesn't have the same effect as say failing a Manse expedition.

I just don't think any sort of "fallout" is an actual risk we need to worry about, the QM comments have been pretty clear that it's a "This will be a moment of personal horror and the reader will Feel Guilty". Not that Hill isn't perfectly fine to assault for normal assault an opponent reasons. Compare to all the fearmongering about the risks of Assaulting Copper that led us to delay and delay out of worries of "fallout" and then when we finally got pushed into pressing the button by almost dying it worked out great.

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the QM has said it'll cause administrative issues, fear and gossip, and a lot of unknown, unless I missed something else. Maybe personal horror about the sacrament itself, but not necessarily about individual choices. Maybe we'll be able to write it off and it'll be easy. Bureau loyalty is at max so that helps. Really it's arguably why nothing came of the aftermath of the assault, Beyond Reproach could have gone quite differently without it. Maybe it'll be fine, but our mistakes have tended to hit us hard, and this is just an unnecessary risk. We needed to deal with Copper, Velvet Hill is no threat.

 

[Cochimetl]

Velvet has for the entire quest tried to do her best. She was given impossible choices, has done horrible things to prevent worse, out of ignorance, or because there was no other way, but the entire time, she has tried to do good.

To purposefully kidnap and eat her father out of vengeance is not that.

I could stomach the Grail Sacrament it if it was done out of cold necessity, to keep Mareinette on her side. Velvet has killed before when she felt the risk otherwise was too great.
But there is no risk in choosing another victim than Velvet Hill. In fact, there is no good reason to choose him, and plenty of reasons not to.

The one reason Velvet has for doing this is vengeance. She makes a pointless attack on someone who isn't an enemy, from whose death she has nothing to gain, out of...
A sudden mental breakdown brought on by too much Lore-use? It's the only explanation that makes sense to me. And it wouldn't even be out of character.

But it would still be us, the players, who would force Velvet to have that mental breakdown. We have a choice to not let her have to go through this.

I implore you to vote for anything but the Assault on Velvet Hill. We can still turn this around. It does not have to come to this.

[x] [X] Plan: Cannibalism is Cringe
[x] [X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping
[x] [X] Plan: Let's Not Kidnap a Prominent Figure From Canterlot
[x] [X] Plan Prep for Moth and Grail Sacraments while finally getting our SH Sacrament and Edge Sacrament
[x] [X] Plan: Velvet of All Lores, Introduction

 

[Nevermort]

So eating someone's body is cringe, but eating someone's soul is perfectly fine?

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My dislike for Grail Sacrament is more from body horror aspects(not my cup of tea), and implications about what friendship with Mareinetee entails.

Eat someone's body- Prevent a full powered Name from becoming an enemy, gain a full powered Name as a Friend, get a marginal Sacrament unlock
Eat someone's brain: Spend a Velvet AP and make a CD 100 Lantern roll for the privilege of saving 1 Baldomare AP and getting a slightly different flavor of sacrament than was on offer for basically free.

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Harboring pony eating criminal for eternity while overlooking her habits is not such major win as you think. She will help you for a few turns that are left until end game and then Velvet is stuck with her for the rest of their immortalities.

The one reason Velvet has for doing this is vengeance. She makes a pointless attack on someone who isn't an enemy, from whose death she has nothing to gain, out of...
A sudden mental breakdown brought on by too much Lore-use? It's the only explanation that makes sense to me. And it wouldn't even be out of character.

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Velvet always hated him. Few times she already was close to killing him. Now that there would not be Uncle around to run interference? In what fair world Steppes dies and Hill continues living? You can consider it preemptive strike then. Hill had Pride to come and take over our farmlands without even consulting Velvet. What new stunts he will pull left unattended? Would he barge on our contract with Rarity next?
As for not getting benefits I again disagree. We will have much better odds of getting stuff done with Pride than with Hill. Like getting investments for Rarity business, making Pride invest more in farmlands around Ponyville and so on.

Not all consequences are the same. Failing say a book search doesn't have the same effect as say failing a Manse expedition.

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But we are comparing it with criminal pony capture, whose failure leads to not having prisoner entirely.
And three Names are much more likely to succeed than one Name on unsuited to her task. So failure state is the same. Easier action (Hill expedition) just have slight complications attached.

 

[Greymere]

I implore you to vote for anything but the Assault on Velvet Hill. We can still turn this around. It does not have to come to this.

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Just something to consider, but if you want people to vote away from Devouring the Sky, maybe don't vote for Cannibalism is Cringe, seeing as iirc there are multiple people who have outright stated that the only reason they're voting for Devouring the Sky is because they don't want Cringe to win.

(also your formatting is broken @Cochimetl, the tally's not picking it up properly because you have two [X]s)

 

[Solace2117]

Velvet always hated him. Few times she already was close to killing him. Now that there would not be Uncle around to run interference? In what fair world Steppes dies and Hill continues living? You can consider it preemptive strike then. Hill had Pride to come and take over our farmlands without even consulting Velvet. What new stunts he will pull left unattended? Would he barge on our contract with Rarity next?
As for not getting benefits I again disagree. We will have much better odds of getting stuff done with Pride than with Hill. Like getting investments for Rarity business, making Pride invest more in farmlands around Ponyville and so on.

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Hill is no real threat to Velvet. Also I think you overestimate how much Velvet cares about him at this point.

But we are comparing it with criminal pony capture, whose failure leads to not having prisoner entirely.
And three Names are much more likely to succeed than one Name on unsuited to her task. So failure state is the same. Easier action (Hill expedition) just have slight complications attached.

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So invading a noble's home and making sure to cover it up, is easier then kidnapping some random criminal, I don't buy it, but okay.

 

[Nevermort]

Hill is no real threat to Velvet. Also I think you overestimate how much Velvet cares about him at this point.

So invading a noble's home and making sure to cover it up, is easier then kidnapping some random criminal, I don't buy it, but okay.

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Well originally people did not want to capture some random criminal. They wanted to capture someone deserving killing which is more difficult. I think chances of DoA capturing random criminal are actually decent. I imagine it as tiered reward where the higher DC DoA clears the more serious crime she discovers. If it is considered as social task then her chances are not great, but if not we are almost certainly will manage to catch someone. Will they be worse than Hill? Who knows. Just shame that Hill's social status apparently protects him.

 

[DelightedOne]

I implore you to vote for anything but the Assault on Velvet Hill. We can still turn this around. It does not have to come to this.

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Your votes aren't being registered.

 

[Demilich]

I am willing to withdraw support from devour the sky, but only in favor of plan other then cannibalism is cringe.
Guess I will check later.

 

[Cochimetl]

Just something to consider, but if you want people to vote away from Devouring the Sky, maybe don't vote for Cannibalism is Cringe, seeing as iirc there are multiple people who have outright stated that the only reason they're voting for Devouring the Sky is because they don't want Cringe to win.

(also your formatting is broken @Cochimetl, the tally's not picking it up properly because you have two [X]s)

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Yes, that's fair enough.

[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping
[X] Plan: Let's Not Kidnap a Prominent Figure From Canterlot
[X] Plan Prep for Moth and Grail Sacraments while finally getting our SH Sacrament and Edge Sacrament
[X] Plan: Velvet of All Lores, Introduction


edit:
[X] Plan: Prisoner Chomping with dirty hoofs

 

[Greymere]

What really irks me is that Prisoner Chomping is so very close to Let's Not, where the only difference is in two areas I deeply care about: cool scenes of Velvet dismantling a proto-hive while under massive Influences (Edge/Lantern is like the optimal combo for this, it'd be sooooo effective), and being sure we eat someone Velvet knows to be truly horrific, rather than any old criminal. But alas, it seems like Velvet will avoid every hive assault that comes up.

Click to shrink...

The reason I have it as "generic criminal" (or rather, preferably not a civilian) is because the narrower our criteria, the more likely it is that the hunt itself will be more difficult and DoA's already not the Name best-suited for kidnappery (which would be Biedde, busy w/ Sacrament stuff, or Mareinette, also busy with Sacrament stuff). And I'd really rather not have to pay out the nose for Mareinette's second rebinding just because we were too picky on exactly which flavor of "bad" we wanted.

 

[Nevermort]

@OurLadyOfWires If Velvet does not go on Hive expedition, does it mean that Shining would be in charge of assault? Or there is another leader on task?