Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Venerable Ro]

Like, to the question of who's going to be able to summon Windigos. We have Windy and the Winter Name.

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I think we actually got a relevant bit of information from our assault on that topic.

She tells you all that the cult had been succeeding in entrenching itself in this city, over the last few months. First doing petty crimes, then offering seedy services. Until finally, for some reason, they started working on a few more legitimate avenues. Such as the art gallery they started funding, for some reason, as well as efforts to enter the maintenance industry, mostly for the city itself.

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This sounds to me like Neighgina's influence at work, services in exchange for services, requiring Copper to pursue the Name's goals and interests to stay in her good graces. We did meet the Winter Name at one point, in another History...

Still, for all that you don't remember it in detail, it was a very pleasant conversation.

To the point where you can even say you are feeling a little better about yourself.

She didn't give you a pep talk. Not exactly. But she did tell you about waiting, and about the joys that lie at the end of the road called patience. She did tell you, even if only shortly, about the beauty of a very particular sunset, which happened only once. She did remind you that beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, and how you ought to try to behold things differently, then, if you can.

And you have an inkling of what actually happened. Call it a hunch.

But you think… that you feel a little better because maybe, and just maybe, what happened between the two of you was a trade. An exchange of sorts. And that she gave you the memories you have, with her, and in return you left her a treasure of your own mind.

However, you know with utmost certainty that Miss Neighnia, in her absolute kindness, took from you only the treasures that were weighting you down the most.

Because even thought nothing deserves to be forgotten, there is no harm in passing your burdens on to somepony else.

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I very much doubt Neighgina would willingly have anything to do with windigoes, her patron Hour and The Wolf are quite at odds with each other.

Personal Sacrament is much preferred for its favour and direction I'll mention.

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Well how about the flavor and direction of progressing Baldomare's friendship with a particularly excellent book, and then heading off on a short Sacrament adventure? That'd be quite nice as well.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

@OurLadyOfWires
There is two options missing.
First is write-in from A Foundation To Build On and Other Velvet plans

[] Evidence that perpetrators planned not only to kill Velvet but also replace her (detailed study of her behavior, evidence of training in hoofwriting similar to hers and so on).
Basically option meant to blunt damage from Bureau finding manuscripts in our own hoofwirting.

You probably should confirm if it is acceptable or not .

Second is your own option of [] A "letter" sent from Windy Flakes. (Attempt to tell your investigators about Windy Flakes as a pony of interest)
It is not the most popular but at least two people voted for it and it should still be viable, right?

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One at a time.

First, you fully intended to get the manuscripts back. So wanting to plant something to discredit them after we know we failed feels a bit too much meta-gamey. Because these planted evidences were decided upon before Selene left.
Of course, there is the argument of this being prepared "Just in case". It's not like the narrative is impossible. But I am just not convinced of this idea.

So, for now, we failed a relatively low CD that was meant to recover important evidence, and now we leave our fate to the dice.

Second, you can offer the Windy Flakes one as a write in, sure. Counts as one evidence. You already have the option to direct your investigators to him under normal circumstances, as a Bureau action. So no reason not to allow it here as well.

@OurLadyOfWires

-[] [WORMS + NIGHTMARE MOON] Of course it sounds like the raving of a madpony. You felt like tearing your mane out just by writing it. Because why is nopony else worried about this?! Including of course the dark secret of what Nightmare Moon really was!!! (Share knowledge about the Worms along with their possession of Luna to form Nightmare Moon, as unlikely as it is to be believed. Counts as "two" evidence)

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Actually @OurLadyOfWires would my votes have the effect of revealing the birth of Nightmare Moon or would it need a vote like?

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Neither Luna nor yourself are comfortable with revealing this yet. Or ever.

Keep in mind, you don't even know if your evidence will be believed in the first place. And you are trying to plant things that are as tempting and introductory as possible. So sharing information like that feels... a bit wrong. Not the kind of stuff that should be done now, or like this.

I will say this again. Sharing "five Lores" with the Bureau doesn't mean they will have access and the ability to use five Lores next turn. It just means you are trying to plant the seeds for a quicker growth.

@OurLadyOfWires is there a risk that our detectives could find our incriminating manuscripts before we have a chance to follow up next turn, and if so, could we have an option to try and preemptively discredit it?

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Yes, there is that chance. And when it comes to preemptively discrediting it, see above.

Actually... @OurLadyOfWires is it possible to point out how to reach the Dreamlands without at least MOTH-ANONYMOUS? Because not only would it let Eclipse see the damage to Dreamlands with their own eyes and verify the Worms a bit, it is likely to occupy them for some time. To make them search for Luna instead of trying to reach higher.

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I also don't feel like this is the best time or place to talk about the Dreamlands, period.

At best no one will believe it.

At worst, you will be giving random ponies instructions on how to go to the ONE place where you know for a fact the Worms exist. And I, uh, really don't want to have the Worms reach Equestria yet.

By the way, @OurLadyOfWires is dreamland entrance visible from stairs to White Door? Trees used to block the view there I think but our son ate them

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Good question. I don't think it is, but I am not sure.



In short, all write-ins I saw so far (except the Windy Flakes one) are a no-go.
Instructions to reach the Dreamlands is just... well, it's just irresponsible at this point. Luna just came back, and she hasn't even completed her own training. Plus, you know for a fact there are Worms there. Upon further reflection, I really think Velvet would veto it on her own.
And mentions that Worms possessed Luna into Nightmare Moon feels like "breaking up through text". Selene doesn't want knowledge about that to be leaked here and now, and in this way. And she isn't sure if it is better that a reader doesn't believe it, or that they do.
The options you currently have already have several ways they can backfire spectacularly, so I am not keen of complicated write-ins.

That is all. Good evening/night, everyone. Had a full day today, will have an even fuller day tomorrow. And as always, I hope you are all doing well.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Edit: Actually, come to think of it we could even bust into his dream and slam the metaphysical door behind us before telling him something to the effect of "you do not want to know what's out there, but I'm going to tell you anyway. We need to make sure there aren't any accidents..."

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You know, that might be just the thing. Don't talk about capital "W" Worms, but discover that the Dreamrealm is plagued with some sort of monstrous vermin in Luna's absence. Vermin that we cannot yet combat, but as the Lunar Bureau it is our duty and privilege to take up the charge of our Princess of Dreams, and therefore we must seek knowledge and a way to effectively protect the Dreamrealm in Luna's absence.

That would dodge the Smoking Gun's implied burden of action by omitting the idea that the "vermin" are directly responsible for or are otherwise involved in Luna's disappearance while still making those who need to know aware of the danger.

It would also be a way for us to permanently weld our Bureau to the pursuit of the Lores and the exploration of the Mansus by invoking our duty to Luna's dominion.

I also don't feel like this is the best time or place to talk about the Dreamlands, period.

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Or we could table the whole discussion. That works too.

 

[Shaper47]

Or we could table the whole discussion. That works too.

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Looks like it's not yet the time for dreamlands.

Given how Luna could have been Wormed on a bad roll we could still warn about the Worms.

 

[Steady Gaze]

-[] [WORMS] Of course it sounds like the raving of a madpony. You felt like tearing your mane out just by writing it. Because why is nopony else worried about this?! (Share knowledge about the Worms, as unlikely as it is to be believed. Counts as "one" evidence)

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Keep in mind, you don't even know if your evidence will be believed in the first place. And you are trying to plant things that are as tempting and introductory as possible. So sharing information like that feels... a bit wrong. Not the kind of stuff that should be done now, or like this.

I will say this again. Sharing "five Lores" with the Bureau doesn't mean they will have access and the ability to use five Lores next turn. It just means you are trying to plant the seeds for a quicker growth.

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If I'm picking up what the QM is putting down about how Velvet and the Bureau would think about this, disclosing the existence of the Worms right now, by itself, won't be very effective. Keep in mind the Bureau has no corroborating evidence that the Worms are the threat, so seeing a one-off story about the Worms will just sound like an old mare's tale. And now, the QM says (and I'm inclined to agree) that suggesting Eclipse or the Bureau go to the Dreamlands to see for themselves is… suicidal, so that's out of the question. (Recall that when we were in the Dreamlands very early in the quest, we had to roll to evade the Worms. I imagine this quest would be very different if we'd rolled a nat 1. Oh, to be an expendable pawn again….)

Now, whether it will be effective now and whether it's worth doing are two separate questions. Because we pretty much know it will be dismissed or that there isn't much that's even actionable about the information, from the Bureau's perspective. If we pick the option, basically what we're saying is that it's worth spending one "evidence point" to make the Bureau more receptive to information about the threat of the Worms in the future.

As for my opinion, it seems a rather distant benefit (when will the Bureau actually be able to do something about the Worms?), and isn't as compelling compared to the other options. Each evidence point increases the chance of the Bureau discovering the evidence was planted, so I think we should only take the risk if there are clear benefits.

 

[BritBiscuit]

Hmm well if Selene doesn't want Nightmare Moon covered then I don't really see the point in my plan anymore so i'll start reading up on others plans. Thanks OurLadyOfWires for the clarification and info.
This has been an interesting voting session where everyone puts forth good arguements and you can really get that insight into where different peoples priorities lie at the moment, some are more focused on the long term and building up, some are more focused on putting out the fires, some want to risk big for big rewards and some just want the detectives not to poke the sentient hate blizzards.
I can see now after having proposed a plan (even if I now discard it from my choices) what thought goes into it and I feel that in the future I shan't be making anymore, the pressure of my arguements for a plan made by me having the possibility of a quest I love having its main character die is a bit much.

 

[BritBiscuit]

If I'm picking up what the QM is putting down about how Velvet and the Bureau would think about this, disclosing the existence of the Worms right now, by itself, won't be very effective. Keep in mind the Bureau has no corroborating evidence that the Worms are the threat, so seeing a one-off story about the Worms will just sound like an old mare's tale. And now, the QM says (and I'm inclined to agree) that suggesting Eclipse or the Bureau go to the Dreamlands to see for themselves is… suicidal, so that's out of the question. (Recall that when we were in the Dreamlands very early in the quest, we had to roll to evade the Worms. I imagine this quest would be very different if we'd rolled a nat 1. Oh, to be an expendable pawn again….)

Now, whether it will be effective now and whether it's worth doing are two separate questions. Because we pretty much know it will be dismissed or that there isn't much that's even actionable about the information, from the Bureau's perspective. If we pick the option, basically what we're saying is that it's worth spending one "evidence point" to make the Bureau more receptive to information about the threat of the Worms in the future.

As for my opinion, it seems a rather distant benefit (when will the Bureau actually be able to do something about the Worms?), and isn't as compelling compared to the other options. Each evidence point increases the chance of the Bureau discovering the evidence was planted, so I think we should only take the risk if there are clear benefits.

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Yeah telling anyone to go to the Dreamlands is just straight up asking for an apocalypse, they have no Moth to hide from the Worms and no Knock to reshape the dreamlands so it really would be down to luck, especially with the Worms +15 to detection, and with a large group going in to search for Luna or even the Worms themselves, it only takes one to let them in.

I imagine this quest would be very different if we'd rolled a nat 1. Oh, to be an expendable pawn again….)

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This is really funny to me because now im just imagining a Worm Quest, back in those days the quest still hadn't really finalised Velvet's personality yet, with multiple opportunities to chose an option that would make Velvet a Villain who faked any interaction before hand so now I feel like there would have been a possibility Bird would have run with it. Just imagine Worm!Velvet in a fresh new body working from the shadows of the shadows, manuvering the suspicions of both the cult and her family to achieve her true mission, to find a way/perform a ritual to bring in the rest of the Worms.

 

[Sveta08]

and some just want the detectives not to poke the sentient hate blizzards

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oh hey, that's me!

Yeah. But I beat that topic to death.

 

[des-pair-2]

[X] Plan: Primer and Warning
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)

Well, no one has managed to convince me that this isn't the best way forward. Give them a beachhead into Lores, and warn them about the very real, imminent threat of WIndigos. This Plan will not risk doing more to avoid detection.

 

[Shaper47]

[X] Plan: Safe and Sound
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)

[X] Plan: Not Underestimating the Bureau
-[X] [SABOTAGE] You planted several conflicting, contradictory, and downright false documents. As long as they fall for it, this will cause heads to be scratched. (Attempt to hinder and obfuscate all investigation efforts. Counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)

[X] Plan: A Paradoxical Riddle

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

[X] Plan: Primer and Warning
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)

[X]Plan: Forge and bombs
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ONE] You planted something that, in its own narrow way, has some practical use. (One Lore shared, counts as "two" evidence)
---[X] Forge
-[X] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)

Unrelated to the vote, but I still greatly desire to see our sweet sweet loot pile.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Ah, are we back on then?

[X] Plan: A Paradoxical Riddle

-[X] [SABOTAGE] You planted several conflicting, contradictory, and downright false documents. As long as they fall for it, this will cause heads to be scratched. (Attempt to hinder and obfuscate all investigation efforts. Counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ONE] You planted something that, in its own narrow way, has some practical use. (One Lore shared, counts as "two" evidence)

After all that debate I'm simply unconvinced regarding ominous warnings, anonymous confessions, and rituals the Bureau can't actually comprehend at Lore-nothing. Let's build a simple foundation and take the other matters as they come and/or with our full legitimacy or anonymity.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

[X] Plan: A Paradoxical Riddle

-[X] [SABOTAGE] You planted several conflicting, contradictory, and downright false documents. As long as they fall for it, this will cause heads to be scratched. (Attempt to hinder and obfuscate all investigation efforts. Counts as "one" evidence)

-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ONE] You planted something that, in its own narrow way, has some practical use. (One Lore shared, counts as "two" evidence)

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Do Plans Tally properly when their lines are separated like that?

 

[Venerable Ro]

Do Plans Tally properly when their lines are separated like that?

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No idea, I'll fix it just to be sure.

 

[Limabot]

[X] Plan: Primer and Warning
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)

Given the possibility of any existing Windigo jars going off once the cult can't pay for them, I would like to warn the Bureau about them just in case. I would also like to try and bring in the Forge's Redemption, so I would also approve of anything that involves that.

 

[Shaper47]

Given the possibility of any existing Windigo jars going off once the cult can't pay for them, I would like to warn the Bureau about them just in case

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Unlikely, it's either deliberate attack or nothing.

Summons have those bindings for a reason.

 

[Greymere]

[X] Plan: A Paradoxical Riddle

The only way we have to buy time to retrieve our manuscripts is to plant false evidence soooo... sorry Bureau! I don't trust that them getting a hold of our manuscripts will end anything but badly at their current loyalty levels.

(damn you Baldomare for failing a DC60 roll!)

[X]Plan: Forge and bombs

-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)

--[X] [LORE-ONE] You planted something that, in its own narrow way, has some practical use. (One Lore shared, counts as "two" evidence)

---[X] Forge

-[X] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)

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We don't get to pick which Lore(s) Velvet shares, remember?

Edit:
[X] Plan: Not Underestimating the Bureau

 

[Shaper47]

The only way we have to buy time to retrieve our manuscripts is to plant false evidence soooo.

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Send Selene next turn to deal with the evidence along with training her General Bonus seems like a good idea.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

[X] Plan: Not Underestimating the Bureau
[X] Plan: A Paradoxical Riddle

 

[HellFire666]

[X] Plan: Not Underestimating the Bureau
[X] Plan: A Paradoxical Riddle

 

[Alan975]

[X] Plan: Primer and Warning
[X] Plan: Not Underestimating the Bureau

 

[Arrkhon]

[X] Plan: Primer and Warning
Actually, does LORE-ONE include LORE-ZERO?

 

[des-pair-2]

Actually, does LORE-ONE include LORE-ZERO?

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I assume not. LORE-ZERO gives introduction to all Lores and LORE-ONE only gives a bit more info about one Lore.

EDIT: I was wrong, the Lores add up, so if you want LORE-THREE you automatically take LORE-ZERO and LORE-ONE.

 

[DelightedOne]

[X] Plan: Primer and Warning

sorry, I'm personally committed to Velvet's Sacrament. I just find it more interesting narratively.

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Couldn't "History Time with Auntie Baldie" be interesting to you too? Because learning more about what happened to the World sounds great.

 

[MisRAR1]

[X] Plan: A Paradoxical Riddle

[X] Plan: Forge Lore One

 

[Anjaxis]

[X] Plan: Not Underestimating the Bureau
[X] Plan: A Paradoxical Riddle

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

I assume not. LORE-ZERO gives introduction to all Lores and LORE-ONE only gives a bit more info about one Lore.

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No. I understand the confusion, since we are evolving from the previous voting options and the description doesnt directly mention that.

But the lore options all "add up" from the previous one.

Besides, lore zero is so vague and broad it cant really be considered an "introduction" to all lores.

These options are seeds to be planted. Not documents that will be revisited again and again, as the reader "finally understands more and more".

 

[Venerable Ro]

Besides, lore zero is so vague and broad it cant really be considered an "introduction" to all lores.

These options are seeds to be planted. Not documents that will be revisited again and again, as the reader "finally understands more and more".

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Precisely, too much information is just asking for trouble, but there needs to be enough for someone (us) to give it a try and get a verifiable and reproducible result. Not something amazing, but something just tangible enough to feel the certitude in the bones, the irrefutable touch of something old and new and all at once.

 

[Arrkhon]

[X] Plan: Just lore
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-THREE] You planted a small trove of useful information. More than enough to hook in the curious and the brave. (Three Lores shared, counts as "three" evidence)

 

[Shaper47]

Not something amazing, but something just tangible enough to feel the certitude in the bones, the irrefutable touch of something old and new and all at once.

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Of course anything lore two or higher is kinda foolish due to it giving Daybreaker a means to see our mask.

Instant super death sunbeam that direction.