With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

I don't remember much of anything about how Daniel is as Dream, though.

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I think he was a bit unsure of his position at first, due to being new to it, but I think he got better.

 

[King of Frost]

Yes... And this chapter we see him having gone directly to the ship...

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I agree it does seem weird, my first guess is that there was a gap where they hurriedly found a way to give the ring charge and since Melmoth opened with negotiations he probably just let them do it.

Or maybe Zoat forgot.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Where They
Stop

"Ah!"

I grinning, human-looking figure on one of the lower gantries grins broadly as Artemis and I approach, carried through the air on our aero-discs. We're a little way away from Caereglwys, the city that used to be the Sheeda capital before the war… Well, the place sent the largest proportion of its populations with the Harrowing fleet and then its rulers tried to lord it over the other cities…

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So it basically stunted itself into irrelevance once the Queen went bye-bye. And I see ol' Swirly-cheeks is as annoyingly upbeat as ever.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

It didn't go well.

"Hello! You must be the caretaker-management!"

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Points for confidence in the face of clearly well-equipped opposition.

He… Does actually look familiar-. Ah! Yes.

"And you must be ex-king Melmoth. I hear that you're immortal."

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No doubt there were images of him in the Sheeda archives, given how long he's had to browse them over the millennia.

"Indeed I am. And I hear that you disposed of that blight in the middle of our sun."

Artemis's eyes narrow slightly. "And exactly how did you hear about that?"

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Haven't you heard? A Rumour can be halfway around the world (or the universe, in this case) before the Truth has even got its' boots on.

"I didn't rule this world for centuries by being second with the news. I had beacons set in place to transmit that information to me whenever I was whenever it happened. You're…" The looks at me with condescending curiosity. "Grayven, aren't you?"

"Guilty as charged."

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No doubt information culled from contacts on modern-day Earth. We know from 'Seven Soldiers' that he had people all over.

"And… A female archer with the powers of a goddess..?" He raises his eyebrows. "Artemis?"

Artemis looks away. "I need a new name."

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Just not 'Huntress'? That was your mother's name, and it'll be used by Helena Bertinelli in turn... And maybe Batman's daughter, someday. Really, there are only so many good hero names for your skill-set.

"If it's any consolation, Donna's isn't much better." I looks back up at Melmoth. "Look… What do you want? We've just gotten this place working properly. We were just about to grab Starbreaker and put him to work rebuilding the universe."

"Do you like this era so much that you no longer wish to leave it?"

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...I... But... Bugger, he has a good point. Fuck him for talking good sense!

Artemis and I glance at each other. I incline my head slightly, prompting her to field the question.

"No, we want to leave."

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It's... I won't say it's a nice place, and visiting was certainly informative, but, no, I wouldn't want to stay.

"Then I have just the thing. A small quantity of the liquid which the Castle Revolving uses to travel through time. And unlike my ex-wife, I actually understand how to use it. Would you like to return to your own era? A little before? A little later? The very instant you left? I-."

"Sorry." I raise my right hand. "Sorry to interrupt. What year is it?"

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To be honest, does it really matter? Starbreaker's presence was basically messing up time anyway.

"I have no idea. And given that we don't have a sun, and that the Earth never exactly 'orbited' the Vampire Sun, I don't see the relevance."

Artemis throws her hands up. "Oh, come on! How can you be a time traveller if you don't know what the time is!"

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Do you need to know where you are, to follow a beacon in the distance? To sight on a lighthouse? As for returning home, presumably when they're done harvesting, they release whatever keeps them in the past and get flung back like a temporal rubber band.

"By aligning my chronal sensors to known temporal events. I don't need a calendar to follow a beacon. Though if it's troubling you this much, we're approximately one billion years from the Last Harrowing. Does knowing that make you happier?"

"Actually-" Artemis nods. "-yeah. Yeah, it does."

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...Either Grayven and Artemis got dumped a long time after the Queen's last launch or they have been here way, way longer than they thought. Or is he counting the span of years between the 'present day' and now? ...Yeah, that makes more sense...

"Then I'm happy to be of service. But as I was saying, I can send you home. That's what you want, isn't it?"

"Yeah." She nods again. "We do, and thanks for telling us there's a time machine on your ship. And I'm guessing you want us to hand over Earth-now to you?"

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The only question is what he plans to do with the Sheeda now. No constant leeching of resources to maintain their failing lifestyle, Grayven's plans have given them vast energy reserves now... Honestly, if he plans to keep raiding the past, then he really is Stupid Evil.

"It would help. But in all honestly, both of you leaving would be quite adequate. I'm more than confident in my own ability to rise to the top of whatever civilisation you've built here."

Hm. We have created a House of Lords analogue, but Artemis and I have a firm grasp on executive authority and we haven't… Put in place a system for Sheeda civilisation to govern itself fully after we leave. That was something we were planning on doing, obviously, but it wasn't urgent enough to prioritise just yet.

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And no doubt Melmoth would simply stomp in, pull on whatever psychic strings he had laced through the Sheeda people and slide right back into his old despotic ways...

Of course. He can't let us entrench a new planetary ruling elite. Taking over is easiest when there isn't any one with a vested interest in keeping the job themselves. They served us and they can serve him. They might be mildly peeved not to get the power Artemis and I implied that they would, but they won't be losing out. Nothing would be taken away. The moment they get their new power, the moment one of them gets it and the system is there for others to peacefully receive it in turn… Suddenly, they aren't inclined to let anyone take it away from them permanently.

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Which is why he's shown up right now, before they can set up that new system... The Nobility can't bitch about losing something they were never granted, can they?

Artemis nods. "And what happens if we say 'no'?"

"Then… I… Simple take it from you. My Harvest Dreadnought has been extensively converted, and I picked up a few willing assistants before I returned to the present. Unlike the people who serve you, they're used to fighting in an environment where they're not having to carefully avoid being drained of all life. Their raw power is really rather impressive."

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That would be the Warlock-breed Columbians, eh? I'll bet they're stronger than they appear.

I'm… Not sure whether that's an actual risk or not.

"I know we haven't been focusing on our military force recently, but we did fight a world-spanning war not all that long ago. Not only do we still have all of the weapons and warcraft of that era, but we've got plenty of veterans who think well of us. And big as this ship is, I… Don't think you've got the resources to carry out a coup de force."

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And the Sheeda have had years of global cooperation now. I doubt Ol' Swirly-Cheeks could drive a wedge into that, short of some very subtle triggers planted in the base of the Sheeda genome...

"And I don't want to carry out a coup de force. I'm afraid.. that.. I don't understand your hesitation. You've achieved something wonderful here. You've freed Sheeda civilisation from the need to feed upon the past. You've given it a chance to build a new future, a chance that it didn't have before. A chance I've never had before. And I'm grateful; we're all grateful. And I'm offering you a chance to go home."

"How exactly are we supposed to trust you not to just dump us back with the dinosaurs?"

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A good question. What reason do they have to trust him at all?

"Well, that wouldn't kill you, and would put you in the perfect position to disrupt our Harrowing of the sauriods. And since I don't remember you being there and since I don't want to risk erasing myself, I can't risk it. If you want to ask about another era, I can open a portal -briefly- and you can send through such probes or use such magics as will satisfy you as to its authenticity. Really…" He chuckles darkly. "It would be far more effort for me to produce a convincing fake than it would be to just send you away, when I know that doing so will result in your death… As.. evidenced by the fact that you're not here now. Some time in the next billion years the universe takes care of things for me, so whether it happens a mere million years one way or the other makes no difference to me at all."

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How very... Honest of him. No doubt there's something he's neglecting to mention. Even the fakest Fae knows how to lie with only the truth.

He tried an earnest smile, and even if he's genuine it comes off as completely dishonest.

"I honestly just want you gone. Tell me what I can do to convince you, and I'll gladly do it."

…

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I'd quote GlaDOS, but Handlewithcare got there first. And boy, the stench of bullshit is strong with this one.

I think I've been here too long. I'm feeling… Possessive, in a way I wasn't when I let Myand'r continue ruling Tamaran. I didn't feel this way when Armstrong gave me orders. I didn't feel this way when Jon asked me to do things or when Batman used to… It could be the… Time that's passed, or the closeness of the Source Wall, or… Just how dominant I am here. Or how attached I've become. I could hand over to Artemis without a moment's hesitation, but… This man…

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It feels like being conquered, doesn't it? Surrendering all you've gained to someone without an honest fight for it? I'm not surprised your Godhead is reluctant to let go.

Artemis come to a conclusion while I'm still mulling it over.

"What exactly do you want to do with the place?"

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Good idea. If he's planning to continue the Harrowings... Someone is going to get his smiley ass beat.

"While I've been away I've discovered new techniques, which can sustain us without needing to raid the past!"

"And those are..?"

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Given he can easily have spent millennia studying, especially since there was no do-gooders barging in on his plans for Columbia, I'm not surprised.

"Dreams. We can raid the dreams lingering from more prosperous times and manifest them into reality. With this universe so stripped down they'll be no interference as we bring entire worlds from the unreal to the real."

He might be onto something. Deep Dreaming manipulation hasn't really been an Apokoliptian thing. Which is a little surprising, now that I think about it.

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It's just a matter of what the Endless have to say about it. Even if Dream has passed (unlikely, given that the Sheeda still live and dream,) his siblings Death and Destiny might want words.

"Entire peoples, entire civilisations, ours to hunt and despoil, then return to unreality so that we can do it all again tomorrow! I almost wish we'd never bothered raiding the past, but alas, I didn't know this was possible. Such a glorious pleasure it will be!"

I sigh, and look at Artemis who is in turn looking at me expectantly.

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And the orange ring sparks with fresh avarice...

"Yeah. Okay."

I raise my left hand, orange power ring shining brilliantly, and brand him.

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...I hate to say it, but Vaermina does have a point. Last chapter his ring was drained, and I doubt they took a side-trip to the emotion-caster city with an imminent threat sitting right there... I mean, I know time is funky here, but really?

You know, it really does feel like even the Source is getting sick of this plotline, with all these Deus ex Machinae flying around... I suppose not every chapter can be a banger, of course... And how appropriate that Melmoth ends up branded in both timelines. Pity Grayven isn't skilled enough to cleanly realign his desires. But a little mind-rape never hurt a bad guy, did it? Not one word about Identity Crisis!

---

A grinning, human-looking figure on one of the lower gantries grins broadly as Artemis and I approach...

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So much grinning... Any better way to word it?

 

[Mr Zoat]

should be ' Simply '

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Thank you, corrected.

Grayven never lost his personal lantern. I made an explicit reference to a technique that could allow him to give him enough power to regain access to it in the last segment. At that point, with Starbreaker no longer draining everything, recharging his ring was something he would obviously do before facing down an intruder.

 

[Agent Orange]

we're approximately one billion years from the Last Harrowing. Does knowing that make you happier?"

"Actually-" Artemis nods. "-yeah. Yeah, it does."

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How... No, why does this make you happier Arty? Knowing you're 'approximately one billion years from the Last Harrowing'* doesn't matter in any way. It could be 5 billion and make no difference to you.

*I'd say 'a billion years from home' but at this point this blased place should feel more of a 'home' to you. You've been there for centuries compared to mere years you spent in the Past.

But as I was saying, I can send you home. That's what you want, isn't it?"

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How convenient!

I raise my left hand, orange power ring shining brilliantly, and brand him.

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The only real choice. Now quick, do the same to Vamp-Ra! In fact, Assimilate them both just to be on the safe side.

This is an incredibly contrieved and anti-climactic ending to an Episode but I'll happily take it

edit: Let's pretend this never happened and go back to courting a pony princess! At least now Grayven is nearing his first millennium so Luna is no longer cradle-robbing.

Last (?) update he mentioned explicitly contacting a Sheeda city specialsied in emotion magic.

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That was literally a minute ago in-universe. They saw Melmoth's ship and Artemis beamed them down to see what's what. They had no time to visit the emotion magic specialists.

 

[Darko]

Just not 'Huntress'? That was your mother's name,

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She can take it up to honor her mother, but use it for good.

Honestly, if he plans to keep raiding the past, then he really is Stupid Evil.

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Or just regular evil.

It's just a matter of what the Endless have to say about it. Even if Dream has passed (unlikely, given that the Sheeda still live and dream,) his siblings Death and Destiny might want words.

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Given everything Starbreaker did it's possible that Dream has been taken off the board so to speak.

We know that the Endless aren't invincible, as Despair, the original one, was killed by a mortal, and Morpheus was bound for decades, and in the recent Dreaming comics something similar happaned to Daniel.

Starbreaker was extremely powerful so he may have had the power to either permanently kill Dream, or just imprison him.

As for Death and Destiny, well Destiny doesn't exactly do much most of the time and Death may not care about what Melmoth does.

 

[Darko]

How... No, why does this make you happier Arty? Knowing you're 'approximately one billion years from the Last Harrowing' [I'd say 'a billion years from home' but at this point this blased place should feel more of a 'home' to you. You've been there for centuries compared to mere years you spent in the Past] doesn't matter in any way. It could be 5 billion and make no difference to you.

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It makes her happy because she finally has some idea of how far away they are from the past, and in the first chapters she was wondering about the time.

She might have spent who knows how long wondering how long in the future they are and she finally got an answer so she's a bit happy.

She may also consider her past to be her home since while true she has been stuck in the future for potentially thousands of years most of those years were spent fighting a war being surrounded by sociopaths, while in the past she had good friends and people surrounding her.

 

[Agent Orange]

Really, there are only so many good hero names for your skill-set.

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Hmmm... She needs something original. Something no version or expy of her has ever used. Preferably something that hints at her pointy stick obsession. How about... 'Arrowette'! No wait, there's a C-lister with that name... Then how about... 'Green Arrowette'?

It makes her happy because she finally has some idea of how far away they are from the past, and in the first chapters she was wondering about the time.

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But why does it matter? Either they have a time machine in which case the distance doesn't matter or they don't, in which case the distance also doesn't matter because one or five or dozen thousand or million or billion years is equally insurmountable.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

Summer's End

Late Summer, IC 687

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Hello there present readers.
This is the past calling!
Should the Summer's End 'timestamp' be here?
This doesn't appear to be related to the Sheeda or their 'calender'

 

[Mr Zoat]

Hello there present readers.
This is the past calling!
Should the Summer's End 'timestamp' be here?
This doesn't appear to be related to the Sheeda or their 'calender'

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No. As that segment has a different point of view character, it has their understanding of their own time.

 

[Darko]

Hmmm... She needs something original. Something no version or expy of her has ever used. Preferably something that hints at her pointy stick obsession. How about... 'Arrowette'! No wait, there's a C-list villain with that name... Then how about... 'Green Arrowette'?



But why does it matter? Either they have a time machine in which case the distance doesn't matter or they don't, in which case the distance also doesn't matter because one or five or dozen thousand or million or billion years is equally insurmountable.

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It matters to her because she cares about it.

It doesn't need to have a logical reason for that, people can care and obsess over things even if they don't make much logical sense.

Hello there present readers.
This is the past calling!
Should the Summer's End 'timestamp' be here?
This doesn't appear to be related to the Sheeda or their 'calender'

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The Late Summer one in orange was the date in the Gate universe.

Summers End is the title of this episode.

When Zoat begins a new episode he first writes the title of the episode and then the date in which the chapter is set in.

 

[Vaermina]

Thank you, corrected.

Grayven never lost his personal lantern. I made an explicit reference to a technique that could allow him to give him enough power to regain access to it in the last segment. At that point, with Starbreaker no longer draining everything, recharging his ring was something he would obviously do before facing down an intruder.

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The personal Lantern that would have been drained along side the ring and which would have no central orange power battery to draw energy to recharge from?

Also there's the whole problem with the Entities being dead and gone along side the rest of the universe, so there should be no orange light period.

 

[Handlewithcare]

The personal Lantern that would have been drained along side the ring and which would have no central orange power battery to draw energy to recharge from?

Also there's the whole problem with the Entities being dead and gone along side the rest of the universe, so there should be no orange light period.

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Lantern was in subspace pocjet, who knows if the effect extends there?

If no lights existed, no one would be able to feel anythng, yet they do.

Not enough for entities to form, but obviously enoguh for the Rings.

 

[Lakanna]

Grayven only needed a spark of Orange to get his personal lantern from subspace, but there seems to be no time passing between last episode when his ring was completely drained, and this episode.
A few hours or days of time skip between seeing the dreadnought and actually going to meet it should at least get a passing mention, or you get confused readers.

 

[moralrelativity]

recharging his ring was something he would obviously do before facing down an intruder

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Yeah, that's what I assumed. We don't need to see every little detail.

 

[Gantradies]

i..think this is one of the Time's Vae genuinely has a point-

given the extremely short timeframe between dealing with the energy drain and using his ring to brand, barring !not!Grayven having picked up a primer on how to charge his ring off passive/draining nearby avarice, well...

the sudden colored text at a pivotal/potentially climatic moment made it look like that was going to happen-
and, to be honest, it'd work/read a lot better then "i suddenly pulled my lantern out of subspace, with a dead ring, and charged the latter with it between metaphorical comic panels when ive had zero downtime between the last crisis and the current"

It..doesn't quite work/feel right, im afraid, at least for me- it feels a little...well.. off, i guess,in the way it came out of nowhere when in the previous chapter he'd been seemingly considering taking a trip to another city (without ring flight/his usual mobility) to get his ring reactivated from a completely-drained state-though it could just be me here >~<

-maybe a little revision/tweaking could help? i might be overthinking things again....
for what its worth,im on mobile-if there's godspeech involved ive completely missed it >.<

 

[Hell's Razer]

I made an explicit reference to a technique that could allow him to give him enough power to regain access to it in the last segment

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Actually Mr Zoat what you failed to show here explicitly, was that sufficient time passed that we could infer that they went there and did that instead of them going straight to Melmoth as was implied here:

Artemis looks at the image for a few moments, then turns to face me.

"We need to get down there."

I nod. "Indeed we do."

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[theaceoffire]

How did he charge up his completely drained ring?

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He wanted this very, VERY baddly.

 

[Stsword]

Actually Mr Zoat what you failed to show here explicitly, was that sufficient time passed that we could infer that they went there and did that instead of them going straight to Melmoth as was implied here:

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Something to keep in mind folks is that it hardly takes any time at all to charge a ring.

An orange lantern ring goes from 0 to 100% full in the time it would take to say
"What's mine is mine and mine and mine.
And mine and mine and mine!
Not yours!"

That's 16 syllables.

So less time that it takes to say a haiku.

Power rings are very impressive batteries.

 

[WereDragon]

Grayven never lost his personal lantern. I made an explicit reference to a technique that could allow him to give him enough power to regain access to it in the last segment. At that point, with Starbreaker no longer draining everything, recharging his ring was something he would obviously do before facing down an intruder.

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Nope.

What last chapter has is Greyven stating that he doesn't have such a technique, but want to/intends to develop one with the help of emotion specialised mages.
Then they are interrupted by a capital ship turning up and state their intent to go check on it, with a strong implication that they would do so immediately rather than taking multiple hours/days to go prep.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Nope.

What last chapter has is Greyven stating that he doesn't have such a technique, but want to/intends to develop one with the help of emotion specialised mages.
Then they are interrupted by a capital ship turning up and state their intent to go check on it, with a strong implication that they would do so immediately rather than taking multiple hours/days to go prep.

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They've spent potentially decades on improving the infrastructure on this planet, using magic. If they don't have a way to get to the other side of the globe in a few minutes tops, like the dolmen gates Paragon helped get made or Artemis's rainbow bridge, I'll shove my dick in a blender.

 

[hance1986]

Zoat please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the dream harvesting thing is what drove Grayven to brand Melmoth.

It feels similar to when Paragon was telling Melmoth about alternatives to Harrowing to save the Sheeda. And Melmoth refused because he liked hurting people even though he knew it was not as efficient and short sighted.

Besides. How would harvesting dreams be any better? Sheeda having access to the collective unconscious of past civilizations could be disastrous? Stealing their dreams and ideas, inspiration? If those are harvested, it could create stasis and stagnation in a past civilization which could be just as bad or worse than the Harrowing was.

Thoughts?

 

[Finagle007]

Melmoth reminds me of Columbus from FGO. Brilliant, but complete and utter scum.

 

[Darko]

Zoat please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the dream harvesting thing is what drove Grayven to brand Melmoth.

It feels similar to when Paragon was telling Melmoth about alternatives to Harrowing to save the Sheeda. And Melmoth refused because he liked hurting people even though he knew it was not as efficient and short sighted.

Besides. How would harvesting dreams be any better? Sheeda having access to the collective unconscious of past civilizations could be disastrous? Stealing their dreams and ideas, inspiration? If those are harvested, it could create stasis and stagnation in a past civilization which could be just as bad or worse than the Harrowing was.

Thoughts?

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Renegade branded him because he was going to continue doing evil things for no reason aside from his own pleasure.

Melmoth doesn't want to harvest from dreams to get resources, he wants to do it to hurt any of the people in those dreams.

The renegade is going to fix the universe so Melmoth wouldn't need to keep harvesting for materials, but he wants to do it for his sadistic pleasure.

And there have been potentially trillions of species that have existed in the universe, so Melmoth would have a lot of civilizations to harvest from, compared to the few civilizations that have existed on Earth.

I also don't get what you mean by creating stagnation in a past civilization when all previous civilizations are dead and the only things left are their dreams.

 

[Doccer]

"Yeah. Okay."

I raise my left hand, orange power ring shining brilliantly, and brand him.

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Well Damn!

 

[Hell's Razer]

Something to keep in mind folks is that it hardly takes any time at all to charge a ring.

An orange lantern ring goes from 0 to 100% full in the time it would take to say
"What's mine is mine and mine and mine.
And mine and mine and mine!
Not yours!"

That's 16 syllables.

So less time that it takes to say a haiku.

Power rings are very impressive batteries.

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Yes but getting to the place where he can get enough charge to do so takes some time anyway, and it was, incorrectly admittedly, inferred by a lot of people that they went straight to deal with Melmoth, due to an unspoken understanding of narrative conventions of the part that I quoted.

 

[Doccer]

I'd quote GlaDOS, but Handlewithcare got there first. And boy, the stench of bullshit is strong with this one.

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I missed that. What was the quote?

It's just a matter of what the Endless have to say about it. Even if Dream has passed (unlikely, given that the Sheeda still live and dream,) his siblings Death and Destiny might want words.

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Be interesting if Dream had died and Artemis and Grayven rebirthed him by being the first to dream in a long time.

 

[nick012000]

I think that Grayven's ring just got recharged by the sheer force of Melmoth's avarice. Look at how much Orange there was there!

It might not have been as bad.

By this time, Morpheus should be dead and Daniel have taken his place. He in turn might have also gotten replaced, but he's the one we know about.

I don't remember much of anything about how Daniel is as Dream, though.

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Even before he became Dream, he was a superhero while armed with nothing but prophetic dreams and a gun that shot sleep gas. Dude has grit and a willingness to punish people for their misdeeds. I think that something like Melmoth's dream-based supervillainy plan would be exactly the sort of thing he'd punish severely.

 

[CTrees]

The lack of times being noted at the beginning of each update really doesn't help the impression that this one happened almost immediately after the previous one ended. I guess Melmoth is one of those patient bosses that won't take any action until you show up in his throne room? Just a little odd that his scripting is different here than it was in the witch world, where he was *very* active, putting the player on a clock.

 

[Darko]

I think that Grayven's ring just got recharged by the sheer force of Melmoth's avarice. Look at how much Orange there was there!

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Only blue rings can recharge by absorbing the ambient emotion around them, the others require a Lantern.

Even before he became Dream, he was a superhero while armed with nothing but prophetic dreams and a gun that shot sleep gas. Dude has grit and a willingness to punish people for their misdeeds. I think that something like Melmoth's dream-based supervillainy plan would be exactly the sort of thing he'd punish severely.

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Your talking about Wesley Dodds, who was the superhero Sandman.

He, Morpheus and Daniel are separate beings.

Morpheus was the original Dream, Daniel replaced him.

Dodds on the other hand was a guy that got a piece of Morpheus's soul after he was imprisoned and through it received prophetic dreams that showed him a crime about to be committed, so he decided to become a superhero and stop them.

The lack of times being noted at the beginning of each update really doesn't help the impression that this one happened almost immediately after the previous one ended. I guess Melmoth is one of those patient bosses that won't take any action until you show up in his throne room? Just a little odd that his scripting is different here than it was in the witch world, where he was *very* active, putting the player on a clock.

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He may have thought playing around with the ones responsible for killing an extremely powerful godlike being was a bad idea.

He played around with Paul because he didn't know who he was, or what he accomplished, but he knows that renegade and Artemis killed Starbreaker so he thinks it's good to not try and screw with them.