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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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WereDragon said:
I wonder how the Inquisition will take the news that the Tau can monitor extra-galactic fleets?
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More like a human with pre dark age technology can do so... Will be fun if they find out with their ubber spies and assassins that the SI told the Tau he is a time traveler from 2M.


Mr Zoat since this Paul has perfect knowledge off DC, does he know he can make new orange rings out of the construct lanterns he creates? Also since the RING told OL Paul "At current Avarice levels a new ring can be created in X months" will he try to do that approach?

There is no other way for him to unfuck the Galaxy other than by creating more orange rings, so one would assume he would be motivated to spend time trying now that he is somewhat "safe" in Tau space.
 
Umm. Question. While the Emperor of Mankind wasn't the best father for sure he was actually a pretty good ruler. If this Paul has an Orange ring that can heal and frankly can probably be undetectable. Why doesn't he just go to Terra and heal the Emperor... or Guliman if he doesn't want to risk Terra dirrectly.
 
Enochi said:
Umm. Question. While the Emperor of Mankind wasn't the best father for sure he was actually a pretty good ruler. If this Paul has an Orange ring that can heal and frankly can probably be undetectable. Why doesn't he just go to Terra and heal the Emperor... or Guliman if he doesn't want to risk Terra dirrectly.
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He may be attacked if he tries that and they may be able to actually kill him, given that this is a Primarch and the Emperor we're talking about, so they would have some extreme security.

He also has no idea if he can even do it because of the damage they sustained.
 
Agent Orange said:
Since Paul mentioned spending 'eight months' cleaning up this mess I'm guessing the first chapter in this universe (the one where Paul met/boarded/rescued that Tau ship) was roughly around that time? How long has Paul been in WH40K? A year or so?
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About a year and a quarter, I think.
Also, isn't 'Ms Vale' supposed to be 'Ms Vail'? He's talking about the Inquisitor chick? Cain's biographer?
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Thank you, corrected.
WereDragon said:
I wonder how the Inquisition will take the news that the Tau can monitor extra-galactic fleets?
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More significantly, how will they take the news that the Tau Empire can monitor Imperial Navy fleets anywhere in the galaxy?
Chaoswind said:
Mr Zoat since this Paul has perfect knowledge of DC, does he know he can make new orange rings out of the construct lanterns he creates? Also since the RING told OL Paul "At current Avarice levels a new ring can be created in X months" will he try to do that approach?
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No.
There is no other way for him to unfuck the Galaxy other than by creating more orange rings, so one would assume he would be motivated to spend time trying now that he is somewhat "safe" in Tau space.
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He's in 40K. No where is safe.
 
It's nice to see Ciaphas Cain show up, but a little disappointing that we don't get to see him being clever and he's only present so that Paul can style all over him. Cain is one of the characters from 40k I really like so seeing him turned into fuel for Paul's superiority masturbation feels a little cheap.

Also, the fact that Paul knows exactly who Amberley Vail is and has a message for her is going to set off some alarms in the Inquisition, especially because they likely have no idea who he is.
 
storybookknight said:
It's nice to see Ciaphas Cain show up, but a little disappointing that we don't get to see him being clever and he's only present so that Paul can style all over him. Cain is one of the characters from 40k I really like so seeing him turned into fuel for Paul's superiority masturbation feels a little cheap.
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He may have thought trying to sound clever in front of someone who can potentially kill him but was willing to negotiate is a bad move.

He may also be tired after fighting those cultists.
 
Mr Zoat, I have one question regarding Paultector.

Last time we saw him after the Crisis was in the Wyrm segments and he apparently managed to both make a lantern on his own and got it fitted into power armour Mumm-Rana made for him. He noted that it was 'built into the cuirass' of his power armour. The first image that comes to mind is Alan Scott's Kingdom Come armour. Please tell me it isn't so :/ Just because Iron Man made having a glowing chestpiece weak point look cool doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. Wouldn't an extra well armored (and preferably non-transparent) 'backpack' segment work just as well? It would be slightly less obvious 'shot me here' weak point at very least.
 
Agent Orange said:
Mr Zoat, I have one question regarding Paultector.

Last time we saw him after the Crisis was in the Wyrm segments and he apparently managed to both make a lantern on his own and got it fitted into power armour Mumm-Rana made for him. He noted that it was 'built into the cuirass' of his power armour. The first image that comes to mind is Alan Scott's Kingdom Come armour. Please tell me it isn't so :/ Just because Iron Man made having a glowing chestpiece weak point look cool doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. Wouldn't an extra well armored (and preferably non-transparent) 'backpack' segment work just as well? It would be slightly less obvious 'shot me here' weak point at very least.
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Mumm-rana made it. He thinks of it as a personal lantern because that's the design the Guardians used; his is actually fully integrated into the armour and doesn't really stand out.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Mumm-rana made it. He thinks of it as a personal lantern because that's the design the Guardians used;
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Oh? She made his lantern as well? Not just hooked it up to the armor? I thought he wanted to do it himself so he would have enough power to search the space for 'creatures like Mumm-Ra'? At least that's how he planned it in the post-Crisis chapter?
 
Agent Orange said:
Oh? She made his lantern as well?
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She made armour that can recharge his ring.
Not just hooked it up to the armor? I thought he wanted to do it himself so he would have enough power to search the space for 'creatures like Mumm-Ra'? At least that's how he planned it in the post-Crisis chapter?
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The problem with that plan was that he had no one who could check his work. It went worse than the main SI's first attempt.
 
storybookknight said:
It's nice to see Ciaphas Cain show up, but a little disappointing that we don't get to see him being clever and he's only present so that Paul can style all over him. Cain is one of the characters from 40k I really like so seeing him turned into fuel for Paul's superiority masturbation feels a little cheap.

Also, the fact that Paul knows exactly who Amberley Vail is and has a message for her is going to set off some alarms in the Inquisition, especially because they likely have no idea who he is.
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Well...

Realistically to the setting, to Cain, Paul's attempted info dump, would have probably identified him as either a pawn of the Eldar, a pawn of Chaos, or a Pawn of the Necrons. Because they are the only groups who might know what he just claimed to know.

Of course, Cain's not an idiot, so he would almost assuredly play along with Paul until he could contact the Imperium proper about things.
 
Vaermina said:
Saying "it's literally copy and pasted" and then adding in "well except for X parts which were made up whole cloth" kind of defeats the purpose of this particular argument.
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Vae, one sentence added on does not change her backstory in anyway.

She is someone who got herself deliberately possessed by a Keep of Secrets, dominated it, sucked it dry of all its powers and then went on to do the exact same thing to two more and was going for number four when Slannesh went "Honey, let's just end-run this process and make you a Daemon Princess yeah?

I know being deliberately obtuse is your entire shtick, but come on. This is low hanging fruit even for you.
 
Darko said:
He may have thought trying to sound clever in front of someone who can potentially kill him but was willing to negotiate is a bad move.

He may also be tired after fighting those cultists.
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Vaermina said:
Well...

Realistically to the setting, to Cain, Paul's attempted info dump, would have probably identified him as either a pawn of the Eldar, a pawn of Chaos, or a Pawn of the Necrons. Because they are the only groups who might know what he just claimed to know.

Of course, Cain's not an idiot, so he would almost assuredly play along with Paul until he could contact the Imperium proper about things.
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Oh don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that what happened in the fic here was unreasonable, or that Paul's actions were inappropriate per se. I think what bugs me here is more of the structural problem inherent with Paul pulling his Outside Context Problem routine on world after world after world.

In the DCU, if Paul occasionally showcases a situation where he has superior logic and reasoning to Batman, there are plenty of opportunities for Batman to later either show him up in return, or simply display excellent judgement on a separate matter, so it doesn't come across quite as strongly that Paul is showing off at Batman's expense. However, these snippets from the WH40K universe feel unlikely to be a full-fledged story at any point, and appear to be centered around the Tau regardless, so the odds that Ciaphas Cain will be able to do anything to redeem himself in the eyes of the reader are slim.

What I feel like this accomplishes from a narrative perspective is that it takes a character who I quite like and puts them in the position of looking like a fool because they don't have quite the same omniscient perspective and cosmic power of the Almighty Paul. Again, from a story-logic perspective, this is completely reasonable; and looking at the overall story Paul pulls shit like this all the time, but it feels like a particularly egregious example here... maybe because it also feels like from a dialogue perspective Ciaphas is wildly out of character and way too pompous here - but again, that's just my personal opinion.
 
storybookknight said:
Oh don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that what happened in the fic here was unreasonable, or that Paul's actions were inappropriate per se. I think what bugs me here is more of the structural problem inherent with Paul pulling his Outside Context Problem routine on world after world after world.

In the DCU, if Paul occasionally showcases a situation where he has superior logic and reasoning to Batman, there are plenty of opportunities for Batman to later either show him up in return, or simply display excellent judgement on a separate matter, so it doesn't come across quite as strongly that Paul is showing off at Batman's expense. However, these snippets from the WH40K universe feel unlikely to be a full-fledged story at any point, and appear to be centered around the Tau regardless, so the odds that Ciaphas Cain will be able to do anything to redeem himself in the eyes of the reader are slim.

What I feel like this accomplishes from a narrative perspective is that it takes a character who I quite like and puts them in the position of looking like a fool because they don't have quite the same omniscient perspective and cosmic power of the Almighty Paul. Again, from a story-logic perspective, this is completely reasonable; and looking at the overall story Paul pulls shit like this all the time, but it feels like a particularly egregious example here... maybe because it also feels like from a dialogue perspective Ciaphas is wildly out of character and way too pompous here - but again, that's just my personal opinion.
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You aren't wrong about Cain being sorta out of character in the last chapter.

Nor about the other stuff.

That said, you never know, we may get a future chapter where Paul hears about the Imperium launching an Imperial Crusade and conducting Exterminatus on the planet he just saved from Chaos because Cain did what Cain does and told his superiors about Paul.
 
storybookknight said:
Oh don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that what happened in the fic here was unreasonable, or that Paul's actions were inappropriate per se. I think what bugs me here is more of the structural problem inherent with Paul pulling his Outside Context Problem routine on world after world after world.

In the DCU, if Paul occasionally showcases a situation where he has superior logic and reasoning to Batman, there are plenty of opportunities for Batman to later either show him up in return, or simply display excellent judgement on a separate matter, so it doesn't come across quite as strongly that Paul is showing off at Batman's expense. However, these snippets from the WH40K universe feel unlikely to be a full-fledged story at any point, and appear to be centered around the Tau regardless, so the odds that Ciaphas Cain will be able to do anything to redeem himself in the eyes of the reader are slim.

What I feel like this accomplishes from a narrative perspective is that it takes a character who I quite like and puts them in the position of looking like a fool because they don't have quite the same omniscient perspective and cosmic power of the Almighty Paul. Again, from a story-logic perspective, this is completely reasonable; and looking at the overall story Paul pulls shit like this all the time, but it feels like a particularly egregious example here... maybe because it also feels like from a dialogue perspective Ciaphas is wildly out of character and way too pompous here - but again, that's just my personal opinion.
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I suspect that last point is due to the fact that we're not hearing his internal monologue. Or rather, the internal monologue he added when he wrote his 'true' memoirs. Ciaphas is trying to look confident for the benefit of the soldiers around him to preserve his heroic reputation. Normally, the reader would hear his internal panic. Here, you don't, because the SI doesn't hear it.
 
Agent Orange said:
Mr Zoat, I have one question regarding Paultector.

Last time we saw him after the Crisis was in the Wyrm segments and he apparently managed to both make a lantern on his own and got it fitted into power armour Mumm-Rana made for him. He noted that it was 'built into the cuirass' of his power armour. The first image that comes to mind is Alan Scott's Kingdom Come armour. Please tell me it isn't so :/ Just because Iron Man made having a glowing chestpiece weak point look cool doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. Wouldn't an extra well armored (and preferably non-transparent) 'backpack' segment work just as well? It would be slightly less obvious 'shot me here' weak point at very least.
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Zoat has made comments indicating that he'd be using the "Lanterns are extremely explosive" thing from the comics.

Well sometimes from the comics, then again there's also Kyle cutting off a piece of his lantern when he flew into outer space so that Jade could keep the lantern to recharge from. DC, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, what can I say.

Which means the issue you should have with lantern armor is not where it is, but wearing armor that will explode with enough force to atomize you and everyone around you if it gets broken.....
 
Stsword said:
Zoat has made comments indicating that he'd be using the "Lanterns are extremely explosive" thing from the comics.

Well sometimes from the comics, then again there's also Kyle cutting off a piece of his lantern when he flew into outer space so that Jade could keep the lantern to recharge from. DC, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, what can I say.

Which means the issue you should have with lantern armor is not where it is, but wearing armor that will explode with enough force to atomize you and everyone around you if it gets broken.....
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You know good point. Canon flip flips so often it doesn't really matter what you choose as long as your internally consistent in your series run. If you change something from standard in your setting, reveal it in worldbilding not in a vital moment of action where everyone will yell you did it wrong because no one knew you had decided on a specific way.

Superman in injustice works because we know the premise/change in world from normal. If you write normal superman like Injustice superman and don't explain why, it's bad writing like in Cavils Superman being basically half new 52 superman and half early injustice superman with no explanation for why..

I don't care if something in a fanfic is wrong from canon as long as the change remains consistant in new fanfic/new authors comic run. I don't mind as much if current Batman writer retcons stuff from an earlier writers run (if done sparingly) but when they screw up something they wrote I'm a harsh critic.

Zoat has done a very good job of doing so, any changes made to our idea of canon are consistent in entire story. I like seeing how Zoat will adapt older storylines and characters/races because it has a consisent logic i can follow even if on many ideas my logic thread takes the ideas somewhere else. every change and addition of new settings is done naturally with only a few feeling like a couple chapters too many were spent with non YJ verse characters (specifically some space arcs where we never saw the people again so it felt like too much filler in one area. The only other thing I'm like 5% irritated by is when universes change, sometimes it feels like it wasn't done during a cliffhanger but halfway through an episode(95% of time he does time it better though)
 
Stsword said:
he'd be using the "Lanterns are extremely explosive" thing
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I have honestly never heard of such a thing. Not that it surprises me - because comicbook logic. If it's a glowing power source it must be highly explosive! Comic book writers tend to equate nuclear reactors with nuclear bombs which I personally find more than a little ridiculous even if I can understand it from a narrative perspective (putting limits/downsides to a plot point tech or adding more drama). So until you made this comment the worst thing I would expect from a chestpiece mounted lantern getting pierced (because it's a stupid 'shoot me here to depower me' point) is the wearer getting soaked in orange "radiation" (to continue the nuclear comparison). Kinda like MCU Tony Stark got fucked up over the course of months because his "lantern" was 'leaky'.

Stsword said:
Which means the issue you should have with lantern armor is not where it is, but wearing armor that will explode with enough force to atomize you and everyone around you if it gets broken.
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If that's really the case I very much doubt this particular version of Paul would have had his lantern integrated so deeply with his armor. Also being one stray shot away from disintegration kinda beats the entire point of wearing a power armour.

Though in some ways it's a perk - if you're paranoid about getting captured and having your tech stolen and reverse engineered this is the ultimate scuttling mechanism! If Etherals had it than that meddlesome kids XCOM would have never had a chance to make use of any of their tech against them ;)
 
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Agent Orange said:
I have honestly never heard of such a thing. Not that it surprises me - because comicbook logic. If it's a glowing power source it must be highly explosive! Comic book writers tend to equate nuclear reactors with nuclear bombs which I personally find more than a little ridiculous even if I can understand it from a narrative perspective (putting limits/downsides to a plot point tech or adding more drama). So until you made this comment the worst thing I would expect from a chestpiece mounted lantern getting pierced (because it's a stupid 'shoot me here to depower me' point) is the wearer getting soaked in orange "radiation" (to continue the nuclear comparison). Kinda like MCU Tony Stark got fucked up over the course of months because his "lantern" was 'leaky'.



If that's really the case I very much doubt this particular version of Paul would have had his lantern integrated so deeply with his armor. Also being one stray shot away from disintegration kinda beats the entire point of wearing a power armour.
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I hadn't heard of that bit of lore myself until Zoat pointed it out, if that makes you feel better.

My internal response was "Who did that make sense to?!?!?!?!? Kingdom Come Alan! Amalgam Iron Lantern! Alpha Lanterns with built in batteries! The Indigo Tribe carry their power staves into combat!"

Zoat mentioned it so I looked and lo and behold, absolutely right. For example, in Blackest Night, Stewart blows up a whole bunch of Black Lantern zombies by shooting a lantern, which triggered the BOOM.

As for kittyfarmer Paul and his armor, Zoat's words weren't that it was lantern armor, but that it was armor designed to recharge his ring so he thinks of it as his lantern.

Those aren't the same thing.
 
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Razorfloss said:
Wait this is a thing!?!?? How the fuck did predark age humanity loss to the men of iron if they had bullshit like this!?!?
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There are so many just randomly powerful or things that either hint at breaking the power scale or do so outright, especially in the more vague artifacts choices and in 30K. Admittedly that's a huge part of 40K's setting, the theme that humanity has lost so much and is sliding into the abyss, but through a combination of sheer fanaticism and size, it's taking millennia to actually die out.

Plus some of the Black Library writers like to have mind numbingly powerful things that are either implied about the war with the Men of Iron or other parts of the timeline. Like one of the Horus Heresy books mentions the Men of Iron destroying suns. I'll see if I can find the actual passage, as I'm not entirely sure how QQ feels about linking to 1d4Chan.

Edit: Found the source, it's from a Horus Heresy audio drama titled Perpetual and is from Ollanius Pius' point of view and has a segment where he remembers the lost horrors that once plagued humanity.

Plus a literal Man of Iron shows up in Blackstone Fortress and while it's one of the better characters, it's not quite all the Men of Iron were hyped up to be.
 
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King of Frost said:
I don't know much about 40k but what I do know says that guy was extremely reasonable considering the faction he's from.
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Being extremely rational, ostensibly in an attempt to save his own hide, is basically his whole shtick. Still my favorite 40K series and the one I'd recommend to people who want to get into the lore without being overwhelmed.
 
transhumansage said:
How?
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He messed with subspace...

That's like a giant homing beacon for the Necrons because of how closely they monitor and guard that sort of technology. In fact, the only way they would miss that is... Well, they wouldn't... And at least one or more of the Dynasties would send ships to find and destroy whatever was doing it...
 
Vaermina said:
He messed with subspace...

That's like a giant homing beacon for the Necrons because of how closely they monitor and guard that sort of technology. In fact, the only way they would miss that is... Well, they wouldn't... And at least one or more of the Dynasties would send ships to find and destroy whatever was doing it...
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is this canon? can you cite some sources?
 
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