With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[iamnuff]

"No, but this… Connection-thing is still kinda weird. The other guys on the team don't understand why I'm okay with it."

"They think I mind controlled you?"

"Something like that.

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Ugh, I wish we could have seen that talk.
I want to know what actually went down when she got back and revealed that she'd been gone for a long time.
Instead, it's an offhand line before yet another trip into ponyville.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Ugh, I wish we could have seen that talk.
I want to know what actually went down when she got back and revealed that she'd been gone for a long time.
Instead, it's an offhand line before yet another trip into ponyville.

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Hm. See what I can do.

 

[iamnuff]

Hm. See what I can do.

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Yay~

Edit: honestly, I would have thought grayven would have been there for the initial debrief.

Whatevr reservations he previously had about going back to the mountain or being associated with the league... those issues must seem like such trivial things after everything they went through.

Surely the only thing that would actually matter would be being there to give moral support to his other half as she tries to reconnect with her few friends?

 

[DrThoth]

Yay~

Edit: honestly, I would have thought grayven would have been there for the initial debrief.

Whatevr reservations he previously had about going back to the mountain or being associated with the league... those issues must seem like such trivial things after everything they went through.

Surely the only thing that would actually matter would be being there to give moral support to his other half as she tries to reconnect with her few friends?

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There are also practical concerns with the relative lack of current communication and coordination between Renegade and the League, as shown by the circumstances that landed Artemis and Renegade in the future to begin with. Granted, Renegade wasn't fully aware of Sivana's suicide plan either, but it still represents a potential risk that could have been mitigated (mostly to the survival of League members, which Renegade should care about because of his personal attachments).

A tangential question, but does Batman suspect the existence of the New Light?

 

[Mr Zoat]

A tangential question, but does Batman suspect the existence of the New Light?

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He knows that Grayven's working with various people, but he's currently working on the assumption that Grayven wants to be in charge and is keeping himself as the shared point of contact.

 

[rkyeun]

For all Lex Luthor's faults, he does treat his employees really well. Luthor genuinely rewards loyalty with promotions and supertech upgrades and shit-tons of money, and not just out of insurance against betrayal.
I'd work for Luthor. I'd tell him I want to become a disembodied AI uploaded into the internet to increase my quality of living because I hate being made of meat, and he would have people on it to start making it happen.

 

[Pez]

There are also practical concerns with the relative lack of current communication and coordination between Renegade and the League, as shown by the circumstances that landed Artemis and Renegade in the future to begin with. Granted, Renegade wasn't fully aware of Sivana's suicide plan either, but it still represents a potential risk that could have been mitigated (mostly to the survival of League members, which Renegade should care about because of his personal attachments).

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My interpretation of the two characters and their level of interaction with their Leagues:
Paul: Their loyal lapdog they have no problems using for their own benefit. He gets lots of pets on the head, but has to live in the doghouse.
Renegade: The junkyard dog that has free reign of the massive yard, but you hope won't break free and start a wild pack that will eat all the neighboorhood children.

My own impression of Paul being their whipping boy has soured me to him completely. I understand the reasons for it, and how his character has grown to get to this point, but it still irks me, because I don't see how he could become anything else at this point. He's one with his Avarice, and all that's left for him is to want something and then work to get it. He works with the League, knowing that they would be in charge of any missions, and he doesn't like that, but there's nothing he can do about that. He'll continue to be "Yes, sir!" and "Orders, sir?"
At this point, all I want to see is Paul destroy the Reach, and eventually, Apokolyps. And probably have Jade break up with him or some other kind of relationship drama (as much as I hate that crap). I feel he needs something to push him forward, and it can't just be some new planetary/universal threat.

Grayven, at least, still seems to have a lot of room to grow, especially after dealing spending so much time being a ruler, and them coming back to being just him again. His goals require a lot more sneaking and cunning, so they are more enjoyable to read. He also has all the global politics to deal with, his little Light group, and eventually, Daddy.

I found Grayven's struggles dealing with Anti-Life more compelling and enjoyable than Paul with the Ophidian (though I did enjoy the Paul-Ophidian interactions, and I understand that's too OP to use all the time).

Finally, I miss the pink text every time Grayven interacts with his daughter. I still find that scene when Scott and Barda bring her back to him to be the cutest god damn thing in this entire story.

 

[Darko]

My interpretation of the two characters and their level of interaction with their Leagues:
Paul: Their loyal lapdog they have no problems using for their own benefit. He gets lots of pets on the head, but has to live in the doghouse.
Renegade: The junkyard dog that has free reign of the massive yard, but you hope won't break free and start a wild pack that will eat all the neighboorhood children.
9
My own impression of Paul being their whipping boy has soured me to him completely. I understand the reasons for it, and how his character has grown to get to this point, but it still irks me, because I don't see how he could become anything else at this point. He's one with his Avarice, and all that's left for him is to want something and then work to get it. He works with the League, knowing that they would be in charge of any missions, and he doesn't like that, but there's nothing he can do about that. He'll continue to be "Yes, sir!" and "Orders, sir?"
At this point, all I want to see is Paul destroy the Reach, and eventually, Apokolyps. And probably have Jade break up with him or some other kind of relationship drama (as much as I hate that crap). I feel he needs something to push him forward, and it can't just be some new planetary/universal threat.

Grayven, at least, still seems to have a lot of room to grow, especially after dealing spending so much time being a ruler, and them coming back to being just him again. His goals require a lot more sneaking and cunning, so they are more enjoyable to read. He also has all the global politics to deal with, his little Light group, and eventually, Daddy.

I found Grayven's struggles dealing with Anti-Life more compelling and enjoyable than Paul with the Ophidian (though I did enjoy the Paul-Ophidian interactions, and I understand that's too OP to use all the time).

Finally, I miss the pink text every time Grayven interacts with his daughter. I still find that scene when Scott and Barda bring her back to him to be the cutest god damn thing in this entire story.

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Did you forget that Paul has gone against the wishes of the League before?

When Aquaman ordered him to leave Venturia to him he said no.

When the Flash tried to fight Xor he stopped him.

The reason he's still working for them is because his friends are doing it and he wants to be close to them.

The League is also basically responsible for keeping the planet safe, something which Paul cares about, so he sees them as important and something he should be supporting.

He also follows their orders because they're good orders, being very reasonable, so rebelling against their orders for no other reason than just because he doesn't like his superiors is frankly ridiculous and not something he would do.

He's not some whipping boy or lapdog.

 

[Mr Zoat]

For all Lex Luthor's faults, he does treat his employees really well. Luthor genuinely rewards loyalty with promotions and supertech upgrades and shit-tons of money, and not just out of insurance against betrayal.
I'd work for Luthor. I'd tell him I want to become a disembodied AI uploaded into the internet to increase my quality of living because I hate being made of meat, and he would have people on it to start making it happen.

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Ah... That might be a reward for exceptional loyalty, and you'd have a tonne of kill switches built in if it actually happened, but... Sort of?

At this point, all I want to see is Paul destroy the Reach, and eventually, Apokolyps. And probably have Jade break up with him or some other kind of relationship drama (as much as I hate that crap). I feel he needs something to push him forward, and it can't just be some new planetary/universal threat.

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Can't help you with Apokolips, but the war with the Reach starts in the next episode.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

Sam raises his left eyebrow. "Would you? Lex Luthor has a space fleet."

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You know how in comics they refresh readers memories about who side characters are?

Because I cannot remember who Sam is supposed to be, and Sam is the only thing the renegade calls him in this chapter.

So is this Sam-I-Am, who likes green eggs and ham? Because that was not kidding the first Sam that popped into my head when I tried to bring of a mental list of Sams in my head trying to figure out who Sam was.

Sam? Sam Wilson? Sam Neil? Sam(antha) Carter? There's too many Sams lately! Which one is this? Somebody help?!

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You weren't the only one.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

for all his (many many) faults Lex is a businessman first.

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I mean....there have been many times in the comics when Lex has basically had it all, god like power, and the ability to do ALLLLLL those things he said he would do if only Superman would get out of his way (despite Clark never being IN the way of anything Legit Lex has ever done).

And Lex has thrown it away every single time...just to try and kill Superman.

Lex is no better than Joker. He's just a cleaner monster, and should be put down all the same. I get that Zoat is changing a thing or two, but both OL and Rene-Paul are deluding themselves when it comes to Luthor.

Ohh, pre 52 Hal would have done the same thing.

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Minus the "slowly" part. Hal would have blitzed in and smashed the target.

The animated movies have a BIG problem with making Hal a joke for giggles or to make another character (Batman...always Batman) look better. Like when he steals the ring right off Hal's finger without Hal noticing. Which you CANNOT do. The Ring wouldn't allow it at best, and at worst it would activate some manner of security response.

But all characters must be sacrificed to the Bat-god.

For all Lex Luthor's faults, he does treat his employees really well.

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...He'll basically kill you/have you killed the second anything can be traced back to him. Everyone is expendable to Luthor.

 

[Darko]

I mean....there have been many times in the comics when Lex has basically had it all, god like power, and the ability to do ALLLLLL those things he said he would do if only Superman would get out of his way (despite Clark never being IN the way of anything Legit Lex has ever done).

And Lex has thrown it away every single time...just to try and kill Superman.

Lex is no better than Joker. He's just a cleaner monster, and should be put down all the same. I get that Zoat is changing a thing or two, but both OL and Rene-Paul are deluding themselves when it comes to Luthor.

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Paragon seems to be catching on to the fact that Luthor won't change, at least based on what we saw in the Low Politics episode.

If you want to see a YJ SI that doesn't try to give Luthor the misunderstood bad guy treatment, and instead stays true to his evil comic self, then I recommend It's an Unliving and The Dark Shard: Enemy of the Light, both of them on spacebattle.

Thought be warned the second story has a lot of grammatical errors, but it's still an enjoyable read.

 

[Agent Orange]

Thought be warned the second story has a lot of grammatical errors, but it's still an enjoyable read.

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I second this. The Dark Shard is pretty good and at least as complex as WTR but very frequent typos, grammatical errors and the like make it... challenging to read. The only other thing I found kinda annoying is the fact that the setting is... not a 'fusion' but 'mass-cross' maybe? The MC is far from the only one from "his" side to cross over into DC and not the earliest cross-er either. It made the setting too open in my opinion. On the other hand it made the plot of YJ jump the rails pretty early on.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

It's an Unliving and The Dark Shard: Enemy of the Light

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I'm really not an SI fan (Zoat's the only one I've ever seen to really do it in an enjoyable manner), but I'm curious enough to ask what his power set is?

 

[Pez]

He's not some whipping boy or lapdog.

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I'm just saying that it's my impression of him. I'm well aware of why he does it. He wants to keep the Earth safe, and uplift the populace, and he knows that the JL can help with that.

He took out Nabu, knowing that he'd probably never get an invite to the League after that, and he was okay with it. He can probably accomplish a lot more while not being forced to work directly under their UN charter (and thus, their restrictions), but it just rubs me the wrong way.

And I'm cynical enough to believe that, after he first returned from space and gave Alan his Blue ring, his presence in the Batcave that led to the automated defenses attacking him was a calculated move on Batman's part. After being attacked by weapons that Paul first utilized (Crumblers), Batman, naturally, sent Paul off to replace Doctor Fate.

 

[Twilight666]

I'm really not an SI fan (Zoat's the only one I've ever seen to really do it in an enjoyable manner), but I'm curious enough to ask what his power set is?

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It's 2 stories

It's an Unliving is a Black Lantern SI. On the one hand, he is a bit of a troll... on the other hand because he is planning to go off world, he procceded to kill a crap-ton of people.

The Dark Shard: Enemy of the Light is a D&D Wizard/Cleric. He was originally a SI in Faerun as a Orc before the Time of Troubles (that's the OG story). The plot of that story is his plan to unite the Orcs and use the Time of Troubles to become a god.

In Dark Shard he sent an avatar with his memories in DC (YJ specifically) to be reincarnated there and learn new magic (He is a God of War and Magic basically). The new SI is reborn in Ireland and once he is old enough he goes to the government to arrange the creation of a new agency that would be the Irish equivalent of DEO from Renegade.
It's called SHIELD because the SI is a SI.
Since he is a wizard that includes alchemy and enchantment so he uses that to create magic items that the agents and him get.
The main thing with the story is that he created SHIELD so he is invested. Also he has no issue asking his country (and it's military) for assistance if the situation warrants it

The story starts kinda nuts because he was looking for people to help train him in DC magic... and he went to Constantine (among others). He even got involved in the Caligula club.

Edit:
Also he is superhero suit is like this:

Spoiler: Image

And he likes to cast Darkness, Fear and Tentacles when he deals with multiple opponents.
Basically he makes Batman look like a Barney.

 

[Darko]

I second this. The Dark Shard is pretty good and at least as complex as WTR but very frequent typos, grammatical errors and the like make it... challenging to read. The only other thing I found kinda annoying is the fact that the setting is... not a 'fusion' but 'mass-cross' maybe? The MC is far from the only one from "his" side to cross over into DC and not the earliest cross-er either. It made the setting too open in my opinion. On the other hand it made the plot of YJ jump the rails pretty early on.

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The only ones that crossed over from his side was Rose during that battle with the drug lords, and his god, who was also kinda him.

I'm really not an SI fan (Zoat's the only one I've ever seen to really do it in an enjoyable manner), but I'm curious enough to ask what his power set is?

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The one from the It's an Unliving is a black lantern that is working for Death and has some of her blessing, so those he kills are kinda extra dead and it makes resurrection difficult.

He's also very liberal with handing out advanced tech to his allies.

The one in Dark Shard is a priest for an extra dimensional god, and is technically his avatar.

Basically the author of that story is also writing another story about how that god came to be, and the Dark Shard is a showing in what will be his future.

There also another story called The Travelling Merchant, that focuses on a clone called Kalum, that was made when the SI went to Worm and later on became a dimension hoping merchant and adventurer.

Basically the powers the Dark Shard one has are various magical powers, like healing, control of shadows, illusions, turning people into animals, some shape-shifting, as well as letting his god/other self gain control over his body for things like battles where a bit more power is required, or for diplomatic visits to LA piano clubs.

His interactions with Jade are just wonderful.

I'm just saying that it's my impression of him. I'm well aware of why he does it. He wants to keep the Earth safe, and uplift the populace, and he knows that the JL can help with that.

He took out Nabu, knowing that he'd probably never get an invite to the League after that, and he was okay with it. He can probably accomplish a lot more while not being forced to work directly under their UN charter (and thus, their restrictions), but it just rubs me the wrong way.

And I'm cynical enough to believe that, after he first returned from space and gave Alan his Blue ring, his presence in the Batcave that led to the automated defenses attacking him was a calculated move on Batman's part. After being attacked by weapons that Paul first utilized (Crumblers), Batman, naturally, sent Paul off to replace Doctor Fate.

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Pretty sure that the crumblers in the cave were just a safety feature Bat's installed after figuring out how effective they are, and it was not some ploy by him to manipulate Paul.

 

[Darko]

It's 2 stories

It's an Unliving is a Black Lantern SI. On the one hand, he is a bit of a troll... on the other hand because he is planning to go off world, he procceded to kill a crap-ton of people.

The Dark Shard: Enemy of the Light is a D&D Wizard/Cleric. He was originally a SI in Faerun as a Orc before the Time of Troubles (that's the OG story). The plot of that story is his plan to unite the Orcs and use the Time of Troubles to become a god.

In Dark Shard he sent an avatar with his memories in DC (YJ specifically) to be reincarnated there and learn new magic (He is a God of War and Magic basically). The new SI is reborn in Ireland and once he is old enough he goes to the government to arrange the creation of a new agency that would be the Irish equivalent of DEO from Renegade.
It's called SHIELD because the SI is a SI.
Since he is a wizard that includes alchemy and enchantment so he uses that to create magic items that the agents and him get.
The main thing with the story is that he created SHIELD so he is invested. Also he has no issue asking his country (and it's military) for assistance if the situation warrants it

The story starts kinda nuts because he was looking for people to help train him in DC magic... and he went to Constantine (among others). He even got involved in the Caligula club.

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To be fair, Constantine came to him and Sean wasn't exactly all that happy about his new 'tutor'.

Still the scene before they went to the Tower of Fate was hilarious.

 

[Twilight666]

To be fair, Constantine came to him and Sean wasn't exactly all that happy about his new 'tutor'.

Still the scene before they went to the Tower of Fate was hilarious.

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My favorite part was when they are planning to go to the tower and ask Constantine to chaperone them:

From across the room echoed the voice of the fucking disaster "Yeah that'd be fine! Haven't been to New Orlin's in ages, have some mates down there...." as my own "NO!" snapped out of my own mouth.
The others stared at me. John huffed as I motioned at him with both arms "He's a fucking disaster! Please no!"

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and when Sean asks for an alternative

Zatara had wished to be allowed rest today. It is doubtful he would have the time free from his situation"
"Tell him John Constantine is taking the Team on a field trip"
"I fail to see..." the robotman started to reply as I mentally counted.
One.
Two.
Three.
Four.
Five.
Six.
Seve....
The sound of the Zeta Tube activating could be heard and a accented voice echo out frantically "NO! YOU MUST NOT!"

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[Darko]

My favorite part was when they are planning to go to the tower and ask Constantine to chaperone them:

and when Sean asks for an alternative

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That was beautiful.

Now all we need to see is Giovanni finding out his daughter slept with the SI.

In a non sexual way of course, they just slept in the same bed you pervs.

Still I'm imagining Giovanni having a seizure after finding about that.

 

[Pez]

Pretty sure that the crumblers in the cave were just a safety feature Bat's installed after figuring out how effective they are, and it was not some ploy by him to manipulate Paul.

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As I said, I'm a cynic about this. I prefer to believe that Batman was more interested in testing out his defenses.

Never said it was a ploy. Just that, as soon as Paul returned, Bats sent him off to find the League someone to cover their magic weakness, and Paul immediately did it.

 

[Darko]

As I said, I'm a cynic about this. I prefer to believe that Batman was more interested in testing out his defenses.

Never said it was a ploy. Just that, as soon as Paul returned, Bats sent him off to find the League someone to cover their magic weakness, and Paul immediately did it.

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Bat's could have tested out his defences on the Green Lanterns.

That was because Paul had a list of a number of powerful magicians and how to get into contact with them, and he wants the League to work so he decided that recruiting some was a good idea.

Yeah Bat's ordered him to, but the order was a very reasonable one, so there was little to no reason for him to not do it.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

It's an Unliving is a black lantern

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Dark Shard is a priest for an extra dimensional god, and is technically his avatar.

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Huh...thank you, but neither of those sound even remotely interesting.

The Travelling Merchant, that focuses on a clone called Kalum

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I have no idea who Kalum is.

 

[Darko]

Huh...thank you, but neither of those sound even remotely interesting.

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If you want you can read them and see if you like them.

I have no idea who Kalum is.

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Kalum is a clone of the Dark Shard SI that was made after the SI went to the Worm universe.

After the SI ran into Echidna, a parahuman that can make clones of people, Kalum was made.

His connection to the Shrouded Lord Karguk, his god and greater self, allowed him to stay sane unlike other clones which tend to be anything but sane.

After that he became a merchant/adventurer of the multiverse and travelled to several different settings, from books, to TV shows, to video games etc., either selling things or generally helping out, like helping a version of the Justice League and destroying the villains from the Wanted comics, and fighting the Kromaggs from Sliders.

He has his own story called The Travelling Merchant.

 

[Flightless Man]

Ugh, I wish we could have seen that talk.
I want to know what actually went down when she got back and revealed that she'd been gone for a long time.
Instead, it's an offhand line before yet another trip into ponyville.

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True, I would like either a flashback were she explains to grayven or have an intervention from team when they return from the friendly "neigh"borhood.(i can't figure out how to phonetically write neighborhood while making the horse neigh sound). My dad joke fu is mighty.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

If you want you can read them and see if you like them.

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I'm very picky, and already not too keen on the powersets. But thank you anyway.

Kalum is a clone of the Dark Shard SI that was made after the SI went to the Worm universe.

After the SI ran into Echidna, a parahuman that can make clones of people, Kalum was made.

His connection to the Shrouded Lord Karguk, his god and greater self, allowed him to stay sane unlike other clones which tend to be anything but sane.

After that he became a merchant/adventurer of the multiverse and travelled to several different settings, from books, to TV shows, to video games etc., either selling things or generally helping out, like helping a version of the Justice League and destroying the villains from the Wanted comics, and fighting the Kromaggs from Sliders.

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I don't know what any of this is except Sliders and I don't really remember much of that show.

As for Worm...everything I hear about it makes me dislike it.

 

[Gilhelmi]

Again, I hate missing almost two weeks of updates. I miss so many interesting discussions.

But with Paul telling them about Lord Malvolio. Is the League finally going to put 2 and 2 together and realize that OL has knowledge that he should not have?

I mean; Batman has to suspect, Diana has to suspect, what's it going to take for them to finally strait up confront Paul about his "mysterious" knowledge.

He has been better about it lately. Partly because this universe is starting to diverge significantly from DC norms, mostly because he has already secretly stopped some of the threat (ie. There will be no Harley Quinn, Dr. Isley is now sane, etc). But he still slips and blurts out things that he could not know.

Come on Batman, confront him. Ask him why he knows so much.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Come on Batman, confront him. Ask him why he knows so much.

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As much as I want to see OL just ruin the JL by telling them they are nothing but comic book characters. That their every personal tragedy was nothing more than a plot point for his world's amusement.

As fun as that would be, there is nothing stopping OL from telling batman to get fucked (or whatever the English equivalent is) if the dork knight starts getting mouthy.

 

[Agent Orange]

Come on Batman, confront him. Ask him why he knows so much.

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He told Guy 'not telling' and he actually likes Guy (ok, maybe 'likes' is a stretch but he's friends with him). If Batman tries to press him he'll just tell him to take a hike. There's very little Bats can realistically do to make him confess something he doesn't want to.

 

[ForeverShogo]

On Lex . . . Well, Renegade Lex is basically, "Work for me or I'll fucking kill you." And I guess making him acknowledge his paranoia that he didn't realize he had or something.

And supposedly he came within a hair's width of getting through to Paragon Lex, but then Lex got paranoid and thought Paul was using the orange light to put the whammy on him. Then Paul just stopped trying.

And I feel like the idea that telling them that they're fictional characters in his world isn't going to be the bringer of ruination people think it is. DC is a confirmed multiverse. If anything it'd be weird if there wasn't a universe out there where they existed as fiction. If being told you're fictional is enough to break you . . . I dunno . . . Get the fuck over yourself?