With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Prince Charon]

I'm anticipating the moment when he finds out the group he's been helping, the Light, is the one responsible for getting the Reach interested in the Earth.

Click to shrink...

He's not going to take that well. The real question is what he does after he finds out that the things he wants to change may be (via time loop) partially his fault.

 

[Darko]

He's not going to take that well. The real question is what he does after he finds out that the things he wants to change may be (via time loop) partially his fault.

Click to shrink...

My guess is that he'll try to find some justification for how he was right and everyone else was wrong, and he didn't do anything wrong.

He's just that kind of guy.

 

[Pinklestia]

So.... Zoat is really hyping mister Tobacco here. And the Sheeda ark seems to have lasted way too long for their threat level.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

I mean, given how Super speedsters have been shown up to this point, and Barry being basically the top dog of them all, he ought to just shit all over everyone in the room if he really cuts loose. He can rip this sheeda queen limb from limb before anyone else can even blink.

When OL had to go up against that speedster in Russia, he was practically helpless as I recall.

 

[Agent Orange]

he ought to just shit all over everyone in the room if he really cuts loose.

Click to shrink...

Don't be silly Maxx. This is a cutscene fight. He's gotta lose hard so that Malvolio can show how powerful he is and more importantly to short-circuit this Diplomancy attempt. Gotta have that big fight scene after all!

 

[PDV]

"Diana!"

Mr. Allen… Doesn't seem quite so sanguine.
...
"Like hell!"

Click to shrink...

When the conscience of the League is out for blood, you know it's gotten serious.

 

[Darko]

I mean, given how Super speedsters have been shown up to this point, and Barry being basically the top dog of them all, he ought to just shit all over everyone in the room if he really cuts loose. He can rip this sheeda queen limb from limb before anyone else can even blink.

When OL had to go up against that speedster in Russia, he was practically helpless as I recall.

Click to shrink...

OL wasn't exactly preparing for a fight when that happened, but now they came here expecting one, so he would most likely be better prepared.

He's also a whole lot more skilled and powerful now compared to how he was back then.

 

[Mr Zoat]

When the conscience of the League is out for blood, you know it's gotten serious.

Click to shrink...

This is Barry Allen, not Wallace West. Or William Batson.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Don't be silly Maxx. This is a cutscene fight. He's gotta lose hard so that Malvolio can show how powerful he is and more importantly to short-circuit this Diplomancy attempt. Gotta have that big fight scene after all!

Click to shrink...

But....But....He's outnumbered and should be heavily outgunned!

I mean, him being the big dick boss, while OL's ring gets shit on all the time, is something I'd like to avoid. I'm trying to grumble less about how crap OL's ring is....and I think I'm failing but I'M TRYING.

OL wasn't exactly preparing for a fight when that happened, but now they came here expecting one, so he would most likely be better prepared.

Click to shrink...

Yes but, I wasn't talking about OL having to fight Flash. I was talking about Flash opening up a super speed can of fuck you on the Sheeda Queen and Malvolio.

Neither of which should have much, if any, experience against someone of his power.

I used OL in Russia of an example of just how deadly that level of super speed has been shown this far in this universe AND pointing out that Barry is the most powerful of all the speedsters.

 

[PDV]

This is Barry Allen, not Wallace West. Or William Batson.

Click to shrink...

When the Justice League goes bad (Justice Lords, Injustice, etc.) the safeguard that's failed is that Bruce Wayne, Barry Allen, or both, are dead.

 

[Darko]

But....But....He's outnumbered and should be heavily outgunned!

Click to shrink...

He's also an extremely powerful ring slinger that has a lot of tricks up his sleeve and may be preparing for a fight, seeing as there are a bunch of foreigners in his home that have been fighting each other.

Even if he does lose when fighting them, saying that he's just a minor nuisance is just underestimating his abilities.

Hell he may be able to manipulate Hal's ring from afar like OL can do with orange rings, fight OL using his green light powers like he did before, and may be able to also shred their will like Paul shredded the desire of those Sheeda.

He's not a pushover.

Yes but, I wasn't talking about OL having to fight Flash. I was talking about Flash opening up a super speed can of fuck you on the Sheeda Queen and Malvolio.

Neither of which should have much, if any, experience against someone of his power.

I used OL in Russia of an example of just how deadly that level of super speed has been shown this far in this universe AND pointing out that Barry is the most powerful of all the speedsters.

Click to shrink...

Again, Malvolio may be capable of restraining him either with his constructs or just mentally dominating him.

Flash also probably doesn't have much experience fighting centuries old will elementals.

And now he just shouted his indignation, so Malvolio may be preparing to fight him.

Also Paul wants this thing to succeed, so he may restrain Flash himself.

 

[Darko]

When the Justice League goes bad (Justice Lords, Injustice, etc.) the safeguard that's failed is that Bruce Wayne, Barry Allen, or both, are dead.

Click to shrink...

In the JL cartoon, in which the Lords appeared in, the Flash was Wally West.

The identity of the Flash tends to switch a lot of the time in the comics.

Hell now there are two Wallace West's in the comics.

Wally West, the redheaded one, and Wallace West, his cousin who appeared in the n52 comics and the Flash TV show.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

He's also an extremely powerful ring slinger that has a lot of tricks up his sleeve

Click to shrink...

Says who? He's a prisoner, trapped in a void by another Green Lantern, who has never had any formal training.

Even if he does lose when fighting them, saying that he's just a minor nuisance is just underestimating his abilities.

Click to shrink...

What abilities? The abilities that at least two people standing right in front of him have? An Honor guard of the GLC with titanic willpower AND Agent Orange!

Hell he may be able to manipulate Hal's ring from afar like OL can do with orange rings, fight OL using his green light powers like he did before, and may be able to also shred their will like Paul shredded the desire of those Sheeda.

Click to shrink...

Why? Why would he be able to do that? He's not some fallen willpower god. He's a dude, who killed his dad, stole his ring and then was IMMEDIATELY imprisoned in a void that he can't get himself out of.

Why would he be more powerful than Hal? Because he's older? So what?! Hal's an active lantern who has had formal training by two of the greatest Green Lanterns of all.

I get that he stopped OL from looking in...but lets face it, magic does that shit all the time anyway.

Again, Malvolio may be capable of restraining him either with his constructs or just mentally dominating him.

Click to shrink...

And yet constructs pretty much suck every time OL uses them, hence why he defaults to "Gun". Also, to mentally dominate Hal, you've got to go will on will. Not an easy fight.

Dominating OL is another story entirely AND THEN you've got Flash moving faster than light, beating you into paste, the entire time you're doing that. To say nothing of Wonder Woman, the most wonderous of all women!

Malvolio is a guy with no formal training, who has never fought anyone, who has spent however long dominating people who have NO powers AND was imprisoned by a Green Lantern in the first place.

Hal was trained by Sinestro and Kilowog, while OL was trained by Guy Gardner and Alan Scott. Excuse me if I find Team WTR to have a far greater pedigree then guy who looks like a weirdly proportioned Alan.

What's he ever done to be this hyped up?

Flash also probably doesn't have much experience fighting centuries old will elementals.

Click to shrink...

Which has never mattered until right this minute. OL had to speed up his mental process just to be able to kinda tell what a speedster was doing, and even then it was becoming a losing battle for OL.

Before Malvolio even has time to send a signal from his brain, to his ring, Barry is already on him, and has probably hit him close to a dozen times.

I just don't see why Malvolio, a power ring user, sudden deserves hype that NO other power ring user, including the main character, has received.

 

[Zig]

He witnessed people in the process of being harvested by the Sheeda. We don't get details, but according to Kid Flash, it really messed the Flash up.

Click to shrink...

At this point, it seems personal. Wondering if Iris got reaped.

 

[Darko]

Says who? He's a prisoner, trapped in a void by another Green Lantern, who has never had any formal training.

Click to shrink...

When Hal fought him in the comics Malvolio dominated their fight.

Before OL and Guy went to Xor's planet Paul thought that if Malvolio was still around and causing trouble then Guy would need his help.

Guy is an Honor Guard Lantern and Host to Ion by the way, so that kinda says something about Malvolios power.

So Paul says that.

What abilities? The abilities that at least two people standing right in front of him have? An Honor guard of the GLC with titanic willpower AND Agent Orange!

Click to shrink...

When Guy was talking with OL before they went to Xor's planet he mentioned that Malvolio could do things other Lanterns couldn't and the Guardians wanted to see if he could do those things.

So I'm guessing he has a lot of unique abilities that others don't know about and can't replicate.

Why? Why would he be able to do that? He's not some fallen willpower god. He's a dude, who killed his dad, stole his ring and then was IMMEDIATELY imprisoned in a void that he can't get himself out of.

Why would he be more powerful than Hal? Because he's older? So what?! Hal's an active lantern who has had formal training by two of the greatest Green Lanterns of all.

I get that he stopped OL from looking in...but lets face it, magic does that shit all the time anyway.

Click to shrink...

He's also immortal, has a giant Lantern so may be like Larfleeze in some respects, who's a Corps on his own, and in the comics he apparently doesn't even need his ring, like Larfleeze doesn't need it, since he may have internalized his light.

Also, to mentally dominate Hal, you've got to go will on will. Not an easy fight.

Click to shrink...

For most, no, but Malvolio isn't most.

Hal was trained by Sinestro and Kilowog, while OL was trained by Guy Gardner and Alan Scott. Excuse me if I find Team WTR to have a far greater pedigree then guy who looks like a weirdly proportioned Alan.

What's he ever done to be this hyped up?

Click to shrink...

Beat Hal with a lot of ease in the comics and has been commented as being very powerful in this story by some very powerful people, Paul among them.

He also never technically lost in the comics, as it was apparently all according to his plan to make Hal his servant.

I just don't see why Malvolio, a power ring user, sudden deserves hype that NO other power ring user, including the main character, has received.

Click to shrink...

Okay, look, I never said that he can beat them, I just said that if they fight then he will most likely pose a challenge to defeat and won't just lose to them like he's nothing.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

The real question is....what has been driving Barry to this point. The Change in Costume to Black, the change in temperament. He's seen death before, as it's part of his day job and his super hero job. He's even seen mass death to a degree, though not anything like what the sheeda have done. But....this feels a bit more personal. While OL and team have been away, Flash has been fighting these things for a while.

Kid Flash didn't mention anyone in the Flash Family getting hurt or killed when OL called him up....but he did mention Barry getting wounded badly...

25th June 2012
11:44 GMT


"Doesn't look like I've missed it. What happened?"

"Lots'a things. Not a lot happened for a few weeks, then they started trying to kill us. The team just had to fight some weird monsters, but the League had actual super-Sheeda coming after them."

"Did anyone die?"

"No one on the team. But… Civilians. People who were just around when we were on missions. They-. We couldn't always get everyone away in time."

I nod.

"I understand. We had a few fights with creatures like that as well."

"I got a pretty cool-looking acid burn out of it. I think everyone on the League got injured at some point. Flash got both his shins shattered. He had to get Angelica to fix them or he wouldn't have been able to run again."

"When did they escalate?"

"Back in May. A big.. space ship got sighted in a bunch of different places at once, then… A lot of people just… Disappeared. We found out later that they were dropping invisible commando teams into places they didn't think anyone was defending and then… They were…"

"'Harvesting' them."

"Yeah. We actually… I mean, the League managed to get on board one of their harvesting ships. I… I kinda wish I hadn't watched the recording."
"

Click to shrink...

 

[Agent Orange]

An Honor guard of the GLC with titanic willpower AND Agent Orange!

Click to shrink...

I appreciate the vote of confidence but I don't actually have any experience in ringslinging (unless you count competitive hula hoop) so this fight is all on Hal and his boxing glove constructs I'm afraid :/

I just don't see why Malvolio, a power ring user, sudden deserves hype that NO other power ring user, including the main character, has received.

Click to shrink...

Because the Plot says so Malvolio is the Final Boss of this level you see. His level auto-adjusts to meaningfully challenge Team Protagonists. If he was fighting muggle toddlers he'd be significantly weaker.

The real question is....what has been driving Barry to this point. The Change in Costume to Black, the change in temperament.

Click to shrink...

He's Barry from the Future (naturally he never even heard of OL) obviously. The one where the League was caught with their pants down by the Sheeda. He replaced the Present Barry just after his legs got healed.

 

[Darko]

The real question is....what has been driving Barry to this point. The Change in Costume to Black, the change in temperament. He's seen death before, as it's part of his day job and his super hero job. He's even seen mass death to a degree, though not anything like what the sheeda have done. But....this feels a bit more personal. While OL and team have been away, Flash has been fighting these things for a while.

Kid Flash didn't mention anyone in the Flash Family getting hurt or killed when OL called him up....but he did mention Barry getting wounded badly...

Click to shrink...

Flash may have seen death before, but probably not the type of things the Sheeda do.

It's like comparing an average murder scene to something from a concentration camp.

Both are horrible, but one is the nightmare to end all nightmares.

The other time he witnessed mass death was most likely the Roanoke fiasco.

That lasted a few hours, but this has been going on for weeks, so he's had a longer time to absorb what the Sheeda are doing.

I don't think he hates them because they hurt him, but rather because of all the other things they've done.

A person can hate someone intensely for their actions, even if they haven't hurt him.

Them just being allowed to get away without being punished would piss a lot of people off.

Paul has a weird mindset, Diana is a diplomat and Hal may have also been trained in some diplomacy as part of his training, so they may be able to hold their displeasure for this, but Barry can't.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

The Blue Future Flash story from the comics?
That mostly slotted into where they grabbed Bart from in young justice iirc correctly.

 

[Coda]

Has Zoat actually stated that the rings can't make constructs in other colors, or that they can't exist without a connection to the ring?

Click to shrink...

(Vaguely surprised this never got a response.) Mostly yes. There's just enough wiggle room to suggest that sufficiently powerful Glow-users could potentially transcend those limitations, but there has been concrete WoZ -- though it's kind of hard to look up because that would have been back on Spacebattles.

The required connection to the ring is why OL learned how to make filaments, and why it was significant that assimilated construct-lanterns didn't have a tether.

The color thing is fairly easily circumvented because you can make construct hologram projectors. THAT construct is still going to glow in the ring's color, but the image it projects isn't thus restricted because the constructs are using "standard" physics to generate it.

"I do not. While it is true that many laws do not apply to open conflicts between peoples, there are still conventions which the nations of Earth abide by. Ambassadors and other negotiators are given safe passage. One soldier killing another is not murder, but rape remains rape. You left Earth long before the Geneva Conventions were signed, but now almost every nation on Earth has agreed to abide by certain terms when engaged in armed conflict."

Click to shrink...

It isn't immediately obvious that this is Diana speaking, as the only concrete attribution is in the previous update.

 

[Mr Zoat]

When the Justice League goes bad (Justice Lords, Injustice, etc.) the safeguard that's failed is that Bruce Wayne, Barry Allen, or both, are dead.

Click to shrink...

Ah, no. Justice Lords was WALLACE WEST, and Barry Allen was fine in Injustice.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

I appreciate the vote of confidence but I don't actually have any experience in ringslinging (unless you count competitive hula hoop) so this fight is all on Hal and his boxing glove constructs I'm afraid :/

Click to shrink...

Believe in the me that believes in you! You are a cat in a gas mask! You are someone's fetish!

Because the Plot says so Malvolio is the Final Boss of this level you see. His level auto-adjusts to meaningfully challenge Team Protagonists. If he was fighting muggle toddlers he'd be significantly weaker.

Click to shrink...

I don't have to like it though.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Flash moving faster than light,

Click to shrink...

Flash can't move FTL in WTR. Very few people can actually, and most of the ones that can aren't doing through pure speed like comic characters, they can just imitate some form of FTL drive, with the closest to a "pure speed" FTL we've seen being from two very powerful psionics that could act as an Alcubierre Drive by bending space.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Flash can't move FTL in WTR

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure he can, unless Zoat contradicts me. Pretty sure he already has. Also that OL brought it up when talking about how Flash could move so fast that he didnt' need to be hitting people.

Plus OL and all the Other Lanterns can as well. Dunno if Superman can, but he should be able to. Adom and Billy are also insanely quick, not sure if quite FTL speeds.

But even if so, then fine, Flash moves faster than the speed bullshit before Malvolio does a whatever.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I don't remember exactly what limit I gave the Flash. I think it was lightspeed, but I wouldn't swear to it.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Well then I will bear that responsibility. I will go where Zoat cannot remember if he's gone before.

Flash has FTL. It's canon now. Put it in the FAQ for no one to read. (I checked to see if it said. All there was, was the speedforce quote)

 

[Assblaster5000]

The limit was lightspeed, yes. Speedsters also couldn't hit at F=m/a when they got going, but all of that was mostly because no one actually knows how to manipulate The Speed Force in-story just yet.

People that don't get their super-speed from The Speed Force do hit with F=m/a though, but most (all?) of them can't reach lightspeed.

 

[Gilhelmi]

I do love that there are diplomatic options. It reminds be of Fallout: New Vegas in many ways.

You can go in all guns blazing, or you can stand back and observe. Complete a few side quests to make the final battle easier, build a high level character that can use science to hack computers/pick locks, all sorts of skill checks.

Too often diplomacy is ignored for high impact action, but I like the more balanced approach. Like the Viking epics; 1 part action, 2 parts debating in court whether or not the action was justified and who was in the right. (Law and Order is a good modern example.)

 

[Gilhelmi]

I am betting that Earth-16 Flash 'can' do all the things that other counter parts can do. He just hasn't had the "story justification" to do so.

He can use the Speedforce to travel in time, he just does not realize it yet.
He can go FTL, but he hasn't pushed himself beyond that threshold yet.
He can jump the dimensional barrier, but doesn't know that exists.

These things are just outside his comprehension at the moment, all it might take is One Bad Day........

Eris Be Praised.

 

[Shotiegun11]

I am betting that Earth-16 Flash 'can' do all the things that other counter parts can do. He just hasn't had the "story justification" to do so.

He can use the Speedforce to travel in time, he just does not realize it yet.

Click to shrink...

As the ancient scrolls foretold in ages long past...

"No one reads the FAQ."