With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Chaoswind]

Given that most other systems in the DC universe have maybe one sapient race apiece, and often whole sectors with a monoculture, I shudder at what he'd think of Earth's diverse nations...

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When he says diverse species with humans being the dominant one he is including the Harpies, the gnomes, other magical races and synthetic or tech modified races like the genomorphs or the super gorilla's.

The nations of earth aren't remarkable, the cabal of hidden magical civilizations and hidden city states are.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'no doubt'
maybe remove one still.
'strike force'

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Thank you, corrected.

maybe add a comma 'like to, I don't think'

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I think it's okay as it is.

maybe 'an ongoing concern'

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No. A going concern is a company which is still trading.

maybe 'memories'

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Both are true.

prisoner -> prisoners

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Stsword]

I don't think it's something the Guardians put in.

I think it may be closest to something like sensory deprivation. Martians are pretty much never without telepathic contact. It literally starts in the womb with them. It's something so omnipresent for them that it's lack is likely felt so extremely because of the contrast.

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Doesn't really apply here, but in the comics the Burning Martian who made it to Earth, by Vandal's assessment, was depressed and let itself be murdered. Well, after murdering most of Vandal's tribe anyway.

So apparently even at the height of their reproducing by mass murder glory they were very much social animals.

 

[Massgamer]

"Your species has already been reduced to below-sustainable levels of genetic variation, and I don't know where to find further genetic records. The Coluans are still a going concern. Narrowly. I can help their people in a way I can't help yours."

"Not… Easy to hear, but probably true.

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Maybe get him in touch with genomorphs or something? Use what little genetic data he does have to remake his species in subtle ways but allow them to live once more?

Kinda like how in JP they put frog DNA for dinosaurs who DNA sequences weren't complete.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Maybe get him in touch with genomorphs or something? Use what little genetic data he does have to remake his species in subtle ways but allow them to live once more?

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For him, that would rather defeat the object.

Kinda like how in JP they put frog DNA for dinosaurs who DNA sequences weren't complete.

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Because..? That was a stunning success..?

 

[Darko]

Because..? That was a stunning success..?

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To be fair it wasn't the frog DNA that was responsible for things going to hell, but rather the fact that the things they were trying to bring back were originally big, scary things with claws and a taste for meat.

Now they just had a bit of frog in them.

For him, that would rather defeat the object.

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Beggars can't be choosers.

 

[LazySloth13]

Or they could try going back in time to retrieve DNA samples along with a few living specimens to repopulate the species, they have at least one time traveler willing to change the past for the 'betterment' of the future.

 

[Pez]

Can't they just take the Asgard approach from Stargate, and introduce genetic mutations to buy them more time for a better solution?

 

[cereal_lurker]

I don't know where to find further genetic records.

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His species were a neighbor/colony destroyed by Krypton right? Would Jor El's records, or the military records from the space station OL visited, contain any record of them? I would imagine even some description of common phenotypes and variants would be useful if they wanted to ask the Controllers or Spiders for some genetic testing.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Can't they just take the Asgard approach from Stargate, and introduce genetic mutations to buy them more time for a better solution?

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No, because that was stupid.

The cloning problem that was supposed to be stopping the asgard creating new bodies for themselves would stop being a problem well before the asgard's technology level. Once you can store a genetic pattern on a computer and synthesise it to create a body, genetic degradation of existing biological forms doesn't matter, because you're always creating the new one based on the same recording.

His species were a neighbor/colony destroyed by Krypton right? Would Jor El's records, or the military records from the space station OL visited, contain any record of them? I would imagine even some description of common phenotypes and variants would be useful if they wanted to ask the Controllers or Spiders for some genetic testing.

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It was a protectorate. While the kryptonian embassy might have had some genetic records -if only for identity authentication- those were unlikely to have made their way back to Krypton.

 

[Pez]

No, because that was stupid.

The cloning problem that was supposed to be stopping the asgard creating new bodies for themselves would stop being a problem well before the asgard's technology level. Once you can store a genetic pattern on a computer and synthesise it to create a body, genetic degradation of existing biological forms doesn't matter, because you're always creating the new one based on the same recording.

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Is cloning not an option for Amalak's people?

The entire issue with the Asgard was always stupid, even if they were some of my favorite episodes and characters. The whole 'copy of a copy' made no sense, for the very reasons you mentioned. Hell, they even had one of their progenitors frozen in stasis. Were their brains just too much for a cloned version of that body to handle? Hell, they could have just put their brains into human form replicators (if a Goa'uld ship's computer could stor Thor's brain, and they could move him from that into a new clone body, they easily could have created replicator bodies from the Replicator bench in Atlantis).

 

[Mr Zoat]

Is cloning not an option for Amalak's people?

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There isn't enough genetic variety left. They can create copies of the same genome any number of times, and that won't create enough genetically distinct individuals to rebuild their species. Dru-Zod's plan to strong arm Krypton into embracing militarism required that he be thorough.

 

[LazySloth13]

Is time traveling still not on option? Or is considered too dangerous given the situation recent incident with the two time travelers and the future dictator leaving weapon/tech caches in the past to make his rise to power easier.

Just travel far enough to the past to gather genetic information without interfering with the future or causing an alternate timeline to form.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Is time traveling still not on option? Or is considered too dangerous given the situation recent incident with the two time travelers and the future dictator leaving weapon/tech caches in the past to make his rise to power easier.

Just travel far enough to the past to gather genetic information without interfering with the future or causing an alternate timeline to form.

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The SI doesn't have legitimate access to a time machine. The time spheres have been disassembled. Also, he doesn't want to risk Amalak finding out about Earth's kryptonians.

 

[Vaermina]

No, because that was stupid.

The cloning problem that was supposed to be stopping the asgard creating new bodies for themselves would stop being a problem well before the asgard's technology level. Once you can store a genetic pattern on a computer and synthesise it to create a body, genetic degradation of existing biological forms doesn't matter, because you're always creating the new one based on the same recording.

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Yea... That wasn't the actual problem the Asgard had... That was Carter dumbing down the actual problem for O'neill...

HEIMDALL
The only one that was perfectly preserved. He is from a time before our program of genetic manipulation became irreversible.

The actual problem was long term genetic manipulation causing irreversible genetic degradation and an inability to go back to an earlier state because their minds were no longer compatible with their pre-genetically enhanced forms.

 

[Doccer]

"Actually, I'd rather bring them here. They need to get an idea of how she thinks when she's actually dealing with problems, not when she's stuck in an unfamiliar environment with little to do."

"Which would involve my most trusted subordinate opening her mind to a group of mental manipulation specialists for days on end."

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Funnily enough before the porn subject came up this reminded me of a quote I've always remembered from a movie I watched a loooooong time ago. No memory of the rest of the movie, and I'll give a imaginary cookie to anyone who can find it but,
The scene is some crime boss yelling at his lackeys about screwing up his orders. He told them specifically to hire 'out of town hitmen(or assassins I forget)'. They didn't. They hired local. He wanted some other crime boss dead and the blame away from himself. Maybe to take over? Anyway!
He said this:
"You hire out of town hitmen/assassins for the same reason you pay a whore/hooker/prostitute. You don't pay them to do the job, you pay them to leave."

In this situation he could argue that OL and his people could have something to gain. But eh.

 

[Nervaqus987]

The scene is some crime boss yelling at his lackeys about screwing up his orders. He told them specifically to hire 'out of town hitmen(or assassins I forget)'. They didn't. They hired local. He wanted some other crime boss dead and the blame away from himself. Maybe to take over? Anyway!
He said this:
"You hire out of town hitmen/assassins for the same reason you pay a whore/hooker/prostitute. You don't pay them to do the job, you pay them to leave."

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The movie you're thinking of is Four Brothers and the villain didn't want hired guns to go after a rival crime boss, but the protagonists' adopted mother Evelyn Green because she poking her nose into his business pretty hard.

 

[Cuchulin]

Yea... That wasn't the actual problem the Asgard had... That was Carter dumbing down the actual problem for O'neill...

HEIMDALL
The only one that was perfectly preserved. He is from a time before our program of genetic manipulation became irreversible.

The actual problem was long term genetic manipulation causing irreversible genetic degradation and an inability to go back to an earlier state because their minds were no longer compatible with their pre-genetically enhanced forms.

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Another part is that they were all so ancient having been doing cloning for so long that it is arguable that they became all but unable to come up with new ideas and unwilling to add any new members to their race/have children, So instead they committed suicide as a species instead because it was easier than creating and raising a new generation that wouldn't be almost exactly like them. Basically they all killed them selves rather than see their civilization/society make major changes.

 

[Prince Charon]

Another part is that they were all so ancient having been doing cloning for so long that it is arguable that they became all but unable to come up with new ideas and unwilling to add any new members to their race/have children, So instead they committed suicide as a species instead because it was easier than creating and raising a new generation that wouldn't be almost exactly like them. Basically they all killed them selves rather than see their civilization/society make major changes.

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Very sad, but it is at least more plausible than the other reason given (the already-shown-to-be-bullshit 'copy of a copy' thing).

 

[Mr Zoat]

5th July 2012
21:08 GMT

Vran Gozzi was not interested in visiting home.

"How are you managing?"

Fortunately, I'm a very persuasive man. With spare power rings.

She's not looking at me, eyes glowing faintly orange as her new ring feeds her data on the state of the silent metropolis below and around us. A lot of Colu was automated, though unlike human automation there wasn't ever really any use of computer systems as fast decision makers. Coluans are all sufficiently intellectually capable that holding data tables in their heads and rapidly responding to inputs without hesitation was easier than designing a computer system that could do it fast enough to avoid frustrating the user. However, the simple worker bots who kept the streets and airways clean and performed basic maintenance tasks were shut down by the Green Lanterns along with the combat robots, lest the Computer Tyrants use them to wage guerrilla warfare against the small occupation force.

"Acceptably."

"When were you last here?"

"I've never been here before."

"You've never been to Colu?"

She frowns, the orange in her eyes dimming for a moment as she finally looks at me.

"Your species are pre-FTL. Most advanced species have substantial numbers away from their homeworld at any given time."

"Yes, but I was under the impression that Colu had been isolationist for a long time."

"Isolationist by custom is not the same as isolationist by rule. We're not Kryptonian. The only part of Colu where I spent any time is on the far side of the planet."

"Did your parents spot what Vril Dox the First was up to?"

"No. They simply disagreed with the prevailing cultural imperatives. The Green Lanterns-"

Alert! Will detected!

"-are approaching."

"Good show."

Honour Guard Lanterns Lee and Aldo approach at speed, construct armour in place and weapon construct at the ready. Lantern Aldo is wearing heavy armour, through from what I can tell several of his limbs have been replaced with cybernetics so that could actually be his skin. Lee is wearing far lighter armour, though his constructs look decidedly more solid than most, to the point where I can't actually see through them.

"Gentlemen."

"Illustres. Gardner told me you got a plan. Let's hear it."

"We can't outthink the entire Coluan species while they're networked together. Not unless… I don't know, the Guardians want to handle it personally. But we might be able to pick apart the network telepathically as the Computer Tyrants have no facility for telepathy."

"You got an army of telepaths you're keeping quiet about?"

"I'm in the process of hiring one now. Martians are telepathic, and Mars is going through a radical cultural shift. Plenty of people will be happy to get away from home for a little while."

Lantern Lee nods, once. "That sounds like it could work. You got sixty billion of them?"

"There aren't even one billion Martians in existence. I'm assuming that I might get a thousand."

"That's not going to be enough. The Computer Tyrants got the locals in pods of a couple thousand at… Well, six million sites spread out across the planet. Six million telepaths who were real good might work. I don't see a thousand doing much."

"You've done something like this before?"

He nods. "Wasn't an AI doing it, but yeah. Had a telepathic Green Lantern with us." A small shrug. "Got their brain burned out trying to shift the load."

"Are the Coluans going anywhere?"

"You want to take things slow?"

"It seems advisable."

"Huh. Got to say, I was kind of hoping I'd get to see the big orange snake at work."

"You're not really my type."

His expression hardens slightly. "Don't. I get enough of that from Gardner. Are you definitively telling me you couldn't break up this network by yourself?"

"No. But I don't think I should push my luck like that unless we're close to a deadline. Do we have a deadline?"

"No one wants the Computer Tyrants back in charge. The Corps' enemies are just happy to have so many Honour Guard Lanterns tied down in one place. Unless Vril Dox comes back, we should have as long as we need. And if he comes back, it saves me a whole lot of time finding my next target."

"So taking it slow is wisest."

Lantern Lee nods.

If I don't get enough Martians, the other obvious place to go is the genomorphs. I'm not sure how Dubbilex would feel about an expansion of g-gnome production on that sort of scale. Would the g-lusca be able to outthink the Computer Tyrants? I imagine it would be a matter of quantity again.

"I would like to see them."

Lantern Gozzi focuses on Lantern Lee, who nods again.

"That won't be a problem. We've left the Computer Tyrants some sensors because I was worried about the isolation driving the population insane, but they don't have any way to affect the external world. They'll know you're there, but they won't be able to do anything about it."

"Can I leave you to it? I've got an appointment with the Martian government."

They both nod, and I raise my fingers to my forehead

and

reappear in front of the Martian parliament building. Much like the Palace of Westminster, it's a relatively recent building designed to look like something much older. Like one of the temples I've flown past a few times, actually. Which makes sense: the first temples were originally centres of learning and governance. There's a long association of the two in Martian culture.

There are a large number of Martians of various morphologies around me, on the ground and in the air. Colours are… I think they're mixed, but they're shapeshifters and unlike them I can't just read their minds to find out what colour they 'really' are.

Huh.

I wonder if there's a way to simply undo the Guardian programming? Or… Change an individual's programming from, say, Red to White. I wouldn't try that as a solution, because Martian social problems are social problems and not something the Guardians compelled them to have. But it could provide an interesting perspective.

J'emm's apprentice S'yrra is waiting for me just inside the entrance, and the Manhunters on duty -a mixture of Greens and Reds- don't attempt to bar my entrance as I fly up to her.

"Let's get started."

 

[hance1986]

lest the Computer Tyrants use them to wage guerrilla warfare against he small occupation force.

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' the '

"Isolationist by custom is not the same as isolationist by rule. We're not Kryptonian. The only part of Colu where I spent any time is on the far side of the planet."

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shouldn't this be ' We weren't like the Kryptonians. ' ?

but their shapeshifters and unlike them I can't just read their minds to find out what colour they 'really' are.

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' they're '

 

[Ardy]

You're not really my type."

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Yet another ship burned before its time

 

[Darko]

against he small

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'the small'

and Aldo

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Kinda looks like Drax.

"Huh. Got to say, I was kind of hoping I'd get to see the big orange snake at work."

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Phrasing!

No one want the Computer Tyrants

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'wants'

I wonder if there's a way to simply undo the Guardian programming? Or… Change an individual's programming from, say, Red to White. I wouldn't try that as a solution, because Martian social problems are social problems and not something the Guardians compelled them to have. But it could provide an interesting perspective.

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I'm getting some Black Like Me vibes from this.

 

[Darko]

5th July 2012

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You forgot to add the date in the spoiler box with the link to this chapter.

That, or this should be 4th July.

 

[egooo]

Paul feels like he's kinda quick to give out rings. Again.

Gotta say though, comparing Paul using the Ophidian to whipping out his dick is surprisingly apt.

 

[Mr Zoat]

' the '
' they're '

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Thank you.

shouldn't this be ' We weren't like the Kryptonians. ' ?

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No.

'wants'

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You forgot to add the date in the spoiler box with the link to this chapter.

That, or this should be 4th July.

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Vaermina]

5th July 2012
21:08 GMT

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I wonder if we will see Brainiac soon, one of the few beings left who might be able to challenge Paragon.

 

[Doccer]

The movie you're thinking of is Four Brothers and the villain didn't want hired guns to go after a rival crime boss, but the protagonists' adopted mother Evelyn Green because she poking her nose into his business pretty hard.

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Thx! Have your cookie!

 

[Handlewithcare]

Lee is a bit casual about a fellow Lantern burning her brain out. Shouldn't Paul offer to help her? Competent telepaths seem rare.

I wonder if Melinoe could help? Or Morpheus himself? The Coluans presumably still dream, right?

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

5th July 2012
21:08 GMT

Vran Gozzi was not interested in visiting home.

Click to shrink...

Well, that puts a dampener on the whole plan... But OL is hardly going to take no for an answer on something this big, of course...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"How are you managing?"

Fortunately, I'm a very persuasive man. With spare power rings.

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See? No doubt promising to kill her if they got their hands on her was involved too.

She's not looking at me, eyes glowing faintly orange as her new ring feeds her data on the state of the silent metropolis below and around us. A lot of Colu was automated, though unlike human automation there wasn't ever really any use of computer systems as fast decision makers. Coluans are all sufficiently intellectually capable that holding data tables in their heads and rapidly responding to inputs without hesitation was easier than designing a computer system that could do it fast enough to avoid frustrating the user. However, the simple worker bots who kept the streets and airways clean and performed basic maintenance tasks were shut down by the Green Lanterns along with the combat robots, lest the Computer Tyrants use them to wage guerrilla warfare against he small occupation force.

Click to shrink...

A neat summary of current conditions on the planet. I'll bet the fighting made quite the mess. Still, with the population in effective stasis, I'm sure infrastructure is easily managed...

"Acceptably."

"When were you last here?"

"I've never been here before."

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Can't assume someone's been to very part of their world. There aren't that many people on Earth who've done that either. I get the feeling OL's kind of forgotten that detail of begin normal.

"You've never been to Colu?"

She frowns, the orange in her eyes dimming for a moment as she finally looks at me.

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I mean, it's not an impossible guess. Remember what I said yesterday about races spreading out across sectors? After a while, you'd have whole generations who have never seen their race's homeworld.

"Your species are pre-FTL. Most advanced species have substantial numbers away from their homeworld at any given time."

"Yes, but I was under the impression that Colu had been isolationist for a long time."

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Doesn't necessarily mean people don't travel. Even if it's illegal, not everyone is law-abiding.

"Isolationist by custom is not the same as isolationist by rule. We're not Kryptonian. The only part of Colu where I spent any time is on the far side of the planet."

"Did your parents spot what Vril Dox the First was up to?"

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Hell, you're assuming her parents weren't file clerks or something. And wasn't Vril Dox not a well-known name before he got his real start?

"No. They simply disagreed with the prevailing cultural imperatives. The Green Lanterns-"

Alert! Will detected!

"-are approaching."

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Because of course the Greenies are standing guard. Don't want some pirates stumbling across a silent world and deciding 'I'mma have that!' only to poke the wrong button and set something bad loose... Though i suspect Colu's affairs are well-known sector-wide.

"Good show."

Honour Guard Lanterns Lee and Aldo approach at speed, construct armour in place and weapon construct at the ready. Lantern Aldo is wearing heavy armour, through from what I can tell several of his limbs have been replaced with cybernetics so that could actually be his skin. Lee is wearing far lighter armour, though his constructs look decidedly more solid than most, to the point where I can't actually see through them.

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I hope he's at least wearing armour over his cybernetic parts. Seriously, why do most Superhero cyborgs always walk around with their bionic parts uncovered? Especially when it's a large area of body parts, like a whole leg... I mean, readers aren't so stupid they'll forget 'oh yeah, that guys' got a robot arm, don't they?'... Are they?

"Gentlemen."

"Illustres. Gardner told me you got a plan. Let's hear it."

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Oh, it is a doozy. Not a quick plan, but fairly good chance of success...

"We can't outthink the entire Coluan species while they're networked together. Not unless… I don't know, the Guardians want to handle it personally. But we might be able to pick apart the network telepathically as the Computer Tyrants have no facility for telepathy."

"You got an army of telepaths you're keeping quiet about?"

Click to shrink...

No, but he's working on it.

"I'm in the process of hiring one now. Martians are telepathic, and Mars is going through a radical cultural shift. Plenty of people will be happy to get away from home for a little while."

Lantern Lee nods, once. "That sounds like it could work. You got sixty billion of them?"

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Letting them all loose at once would be awkward as hell, wouldn't it? And who knows how many might accidentally get a Computer Tyrant riding along?

"There aren't even one billion Martians in existence. I'm assuming that I might get a thousand."

"That's not going to be enough. The Computer Tyrants got the locals in pods of a couple thousand at… Well, six million sites spread out across the planet. Six million telepaths who were real good might work. I don't see a thousand doing much."

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That depends on how well they work together. And once you get a few Coluans free, they'll probably lend a hand code-wise...

"You've done something like this before?"

He nods. "Wasn't an AI doing it, but yeah. Had a telepathic Green Lantern with us." A small shrug. "Got their brain burned out trying to shift the load."

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Oh, that's a deep pain...

"Are the Coluans going anywhere?"

"You want to take things slow?"

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Better to dig a few rocks from the edge than pull out a keystone and send the whole shebang tumbling down. That sounds like a good way to get the Coluans killed. Or at least rendered braindead.

"It seems advisable."

"Huh. Got to say, I was kind of hoping I'd get to see the big orange snake at work."

Click to shrink...

Heh. Well, Best Snek is probably busy elsewhere. Unless you're coming on to OL...

"You're not really my type."

His expression hardens slightly. "Don't. I get enough of that from Gardner. Are you definitively telling me you couldn't break up this network by yourself?"

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HA! He can talk a good game, but he can't handle getting it back in return? I wonder, does he think all humans are sex-obsessed?

"No. But I don't think I should push my luck like that unless we're close to a deadline. Do we have a deadline?"

"No one want the Computer Tyrants back in charge. The Corps' enemies are just happy to have so many Honour Guard Lanterns tied down in one place. Unless Vril Dox comes back, we should have as long as we need. And if he comes back, it saves me a whole lot of time finding my next target."

Click to shrink...

Guessing he's got some history with ol' Brainiac. I bet a lot of Lanterns do, just on principle...

"So taking it slow is wisest."

Lantern Lee nods.

Click to shrink...

Good thing you were planning on that anyway. Bets on Brainiac eventually turning up and deciding to take a little bit of home with him.. And blowing up the rest?

If I don't get enough Martians, the other obvious place to go is the genomorphs. I'm not sure how Dubbilex would feel about an expansion of g-gnome production on that sort of scale. Would the g-lusca be able to outthink the Computer Tyrants? I imagine it would be a matter of quantity again.

"I would like to see them."

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I mean, I bet the genomorphs might be interested, especially if they can form a colony off-world. They're still largely based in one place, aren't they?

Lantern Gozzi focuses on Lantern Lee, who nods again.

"That won't be a problem. We've left the Computer Tyrants some sensors because I was worried about the isolation driving the population insane, but they don't have any way to affect the external world. They'll know you're there, but they won't be able to do anything about it."

Click to shrink...

And no doubt they're constantly trying to find a way to exploit that small connection? Because I doubt they're playing nice just because the Greenies are occupying the planet.

"Can I leave you to it? I've got an appointment with the Martian government."

They both nod, and I raise my fingers to my forehead

Click to shrink...

Taking a big chance there. But with two senior lanterns, I doubt miss Gozzi is in much danger...

and

reappear in front of the Martian parliament building. Much like the Palace of Westminster, it's a relatively recent building designed to look like something much older. Like one of the temples I've flown past a few times, actually. Which makes sense: the first temples were originally centres of learning and governance. There's a long association of the two in Martian culture.

Click to shrink...

The sort of place that, on Earth, would have lots of fluted columns along the front facing. Because we associate columns with fancy old places like the Parthenon in Athens...

There are a large number of Martians of various morphologies around me, on the ground and in the air. Colours are… I think they're mixed, but their shapeshifters and unlike them I can't just read their minds to find out what colour they 'really' are.

Huh.

Click to shrink...

Presumably some are wearing alternate colours, for whatever reason.

I wonder if there's a way to simply undo the Guardian programming? Or… Change an individual's programming from, say, Red to White. I wouldn't try that as a solution, because Martian social problems are social problems and not something the Guardians compelled them to have. But it could provide an interesting perspective.

Click to shrink...

Ironically a common plot point in YJ fics. Even the Renegade did it, after all. I do like Professor Black's version, where M'gann gets the Compassion turned up so high she becomes an Indigo Martian.

J'emm's apprentice S'yrra is waiting for me just inside the entrance, and the Manhunters on duty -a mixture of Greens and Reds- don't attempt to bar my entrance as I fly up to her.

"Let's get started."

Click to shrink...

Well, at least some Manhunters are doing their job right regardless of personal opinion... I hope...

Now to watch the arguments in the martian leadership. I wonder how much shouting there's going to be... With any luck, the more old-fashioned leaders will see that yes, the world is changing, and they'll have to change or be left behind. I mean, there's little likelihood of that, people don't change that easily, but it might happen...