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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Handlewithcare said:
Lee is a bit casual about a fellow Lantern burning her brain out.
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He's a veteran, so he's probably seen much, much worse.

Handlewithcare said:
Shouldn't Paul offer to help her?
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I think the telepath died, so Paul can't really do much.

Handlewithcare said:
I wonder if Melinoe could help? Or Morpheus himself? The Coluans presumably still dream, right?
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Both of them may not care.
 
Handlewithcare said:
Lee is a bit casual about a fellow Lantern burning her brain out. Shouldn't Paul offer to help her? Competent telepaths seem rare.

I wonder if Melinoe could help? Or Morpheus himself? The Coluans presumably still dream, right?
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If so I'm just waiting on an Earth magic user to prank Vril Dox II to have dreams of electric sheep now.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
And wasn't Vril Dox not a well-known name before he got his real start?
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I think he was known in the comics for making those shrinking cities things, but he became infamous due to his unethical experiments.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Are they?
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You'd be surprised how dense some comic readers are.

Chojin Patriarch said:
HA! He can talk a good game, but he can't handle getting it back in return?
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That, or he wasn't making any innuendo and just wanted to see an Entity in action.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I wonder, does he think all humans are sex-obsessed?
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He's met Guy, so he probably got a bad look at humans.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Guessing he's got some history with ol' Brainiac.
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That, or he just doesn't like criminals.

Chojin Patriarch said:
They're still largely based in one place, aren't they?
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On Earth.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Presumably some are wearing alternate colours, for whatever reason.
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Most likely a political statement.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ironically a common plot point in YJ fics. Even the Renegade did it, after all. I do like Professor Black's version, where M'gann gets the Compassion turned up so high she becomes an Indigo Martian.
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Really hope this story hasn't been abandoned.

We need more Cerberus, he's he Best Boy!

Chojin Patriarch said:
I wonder how much shouting there's going to be
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Probably not a lot, at least not a lot of verbal shouting.
 
BlueMangoAdea said:
Paragon!M'gann refused this, right? Something about how abhorrent Burning Martians were?
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Don't remember if this ever happened, but they don't even have a method like renegade has.

Paragon did send that Burner to Maltus, but they either aren't focusing on it, or still haven't found a method.
 
BlueMangoAdea said:
Paragon!M'gann refused this, right? Something about how abhorrent Burning Martians were?
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My understanding is that Renegade Megan is a Burning Martian, she just looks like a red martian because that's what Burning Martians looked like when they weren't setting themselves on fire in this fic.

And yes, that's an immensely stupid thing to do, so you know, same old same old for Gravy.

Oh anyway, there's a green lantern that comes from a planet of psychics- Symon Terrynce, this storytline reminded me of him.

They're real assholes about it though. They exiled Symon for not being psychic enough, they treat not being a powerful psychic as being an inexcusable parasite on society with one's handicap. Symon wears a mask to hide his identity so as to not shame his family with his presence.

Fortunately for Symon it turns out he was just a late bloomer, so he's now a powerful psychic and a green lantern, who is looking forward to the day in which his telepathy grows past the Guardian's.
 
Darko said:
Don't remember if this ever happened, but they don't even have a method like renegade has.

Paragon did send that Burner to Maltus, but they either aren't focusing on it, or still haven't found a method.
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The way I remember it, Paragon offered to remove the artificial phobia but M'gann refused because she thought it would turn her into a burner.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
I hope he's at least wearing armour over his cybernetic parts. o_O Seriously, why do most Superhero cyborgs always walk around with their bionic parts uncovered? Especially when it's a large area of body parts, like a whole leg... I mean, readers aren't so stupid they'll forget 'oh yeah, that guys' got a robot arm, don't they?'... Are they?
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Or humanoid robots and androids. Like some droids in Clone wars and after. EDI especially. She just got that body. It is designed to work as a blended in human. And every time we visit the Citadel it never occurs to anyone to get her some damn armor? To protect that investment? I like the look but I rather not have to revive her so many times!
Chojin Patriarch said:
Ironically a common plot point in YJ fics. Even the Renegade did it, after all. I do like Professor Black's version, where M'gann gets the Compassion turned up so high she becomes an Indigo Martian.
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Link?
 
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Off the wall new idea for martian racism.

What if you give white martians some kind of tech that blocks green and red telepathy. Something is different enough they can notice, why cant a device the build and guided by orange light creation not make something? Give one to any white who wants one and have them shapeshift into aliens and have them reintegrate or set up a few cities on far side of mars or somewhere on earth like antarctica (we have a way for bio domes. (i know how many issues it has, i'm just tired of all of us spinning our wheels on a few ideas.)
 
Flightless Man said:
Off the wall new idea for martian racism.

What if you give white martians some kind of tech that blocks green and red telepathy. Something is different enough they can notice, why cant a device the build and guided by orange light creation not make something? Give one to any white who wants one and have them shapeshift into aliens and have them reintegrate or set up a few cities on far side of mars or somewhere on earth like antarctica (we have a way for bio domes. (i know how many issues it has, i'm just tired of all of us spinning our wheels on a few ideas.)
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Mostly because the telepathy uses exactly the same mechanism.

The SI is perfectly capable of bulldozing Martian resistance. He isn't doing that because he prefers to work with people if at all possible.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Mostly because the telepathy uses exactly the same mechanism.

The SI is perfectly capable of bulldozing Martian resistance. He isn't doing that because he prefers to work with people if at all possible.
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I guess some way of blocking the signal of being a white martian. The telepathy is fine but its the auto identifying that is an issue.

Maybe muddy the telepathy of anyone without an implant, so red/greens cant delve deep enough to notice.

I wasn't bringing this up in criticism of how your handling things. Last few months, i have been more invested in Paul/Paragon then i have been for a while. I feel like you have taken criticism from comments and incorporated our misconceptions, expectations and complaints into your work very well. Its just if we the commenters are going to keep discussing the topic with no new ideas, i would rather go more off the wall in my ideas instead of repeating things.
 
It's not really clear to me why the SI is going to all this effort for Colu in particular, as opposed to anything else he could be spending his time on.

I mean, I understand that in general he wants to improve the universe and Colu is in need of help, but he's putting a fair amount of time and effort into solving this particular injustice over millions of others. The SI usually does stuff because:

1. He's living up to a responsibility he accepted.
2. Someone he cares about is involved.
3. He expects to get some utility out of what he's doing that will serve one of his other purposes.
4. It's not his responsibility, but it's a matter he can tackle relatively quickly and without significant sacrifice, so he'll intervene in service of his general sense of making the universe more like he wants it to be.

On the matter of responsibility, it would have been easy for him to say, "Ah well, the Green Lanterns took on this one; I'm sure they'll sort it out sooner or later." On the matter of personal investment, Dox doesn't care that much, and nor does anyone else the SI personally knows. On the matter of utility, it does not seem like he expects to be able to leverage Colu in his efforts elsewhere. Nor is it something he can take care of in basically a few hours, like the eye-gouger planet. He's having to expend a significant amount of time flying back and forth, negotiating with martians and green lanterns to sell them on his idea, and now it seems like he may have to bring in/create a bunch of Genomes as well. It's a significant problem that is taking a lot of effort and whatever telepaths he's recruiting for this I'm sure could also be used in some other urgent task instead.

None of this is, "Oh this is bad writing," or anything because the SI makes choices about what to prioritize all the time, and this isn't all that odd in the greater scheme of things. I'd just like if the story would touch on what got him invested in solving the problem of the Computer Tyrants, even if it's as simple as, "I saw the Matrix once and it bothers me to think of an entire planet trapped like that."
 
I figure helping the Coluans leads to making the universe a slightly better place and he can use the good will of saving them to recruit some of their best individuals for the war effort, to help Vril directly with logistics or to head other departments. Even if none of them are as intelligence as Vril they're still incredibly good at multitasking using advance technology, and combined that with the Martian contingent Paul's recruiting could lead to a break through in how the OLC and NEMO could incorporate Reach technology like the scarabs.

Plus it's likely with a combination of telepathy, advance schizo-tech, and magic could offer an advantage against the Reach who've can't stop Paul but can deal with most Orange Lanterns, since there's no one else who could have saved the previous planets host of eggs without leading to the deaths of countless offsprings.
 
Steelplaza said:
It's not really clear to me why the SI is going to all this effort for Colu in particular, as opposed to anything else he could be spending his time on.

I mean, I understand that in general he wants to improve the universe and Colu is in need of help, but he's putting a fair amount of time and effort into solving this particular injustice over millions of others. The SI usually does stuff because:

1. He's living up to a responsibility he accepted.
2. Someone he cares about is involved.
3. He expects to get some utility out of what he's doing that will serve one of his other purposes.
4. It's not his responsibility, but it's a matter he can tackle relatively quickly and without significant sacrifice, so he'll intervene in service of his general sense of making the universe more like he wants it to be.

On the matter of responsibility, it would have been easy for him to say, "Ah well, the Green Lanterns took on this one; I'm sure they'll sort it out sooner or later." On the matter of personal investment, Dox doesn't care that much, and nor does anyone else the SI personally knows. On the matter of utility, it does not seem like he expects to be able to leverage Colu in his efforts elsewhere. Nor is it something he can take care of in basically a few hours, like the eye-gouger planet. He's having to expend a significant amount of time flying back and forth, negotiating with martians and green lanterns to sell them on his idea, and now it seems like he may have to bring in/create a bunch of Genomes as well. It's a significant problem that is taking a lot of effort and whatever telepaths he's recruiting for this I'm sure could also be used in some other urgent task instead.

None of this is, "Oh this is bad writing," or anything because the SI makes choices about what to prioritize all the time, and this isn't all that odd in the greater scheme of things. I'd just like if the story would touch on what got him invested in solving the problem of the Computer Tyrants, even if it's as simple as, "I saw the Matrix once and it bothers me to think of an entire planet trapped like that."
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Probably looking for some clue about what happened to Brainiac, or some way to fight him.
 
Coluans are a fairly impressive race, mentally and technically speaking. Even if a small % feel any sort of thanks to the OLC for freeing them from their enforced mental slavery, with a population of 60 billion or so, you'll get a handful that are motivated and skilled enough to help ease some of Vril's workload in a purely logistics and analytics side of the war. Might get a handful that are even Orange Light driven enough to get a group of properly mentally comported lanterns, rather then the Ragnar types that are likely to be dying on the front lines.

The Martians getting some distance from problems at home, external resources that aren't restricted by the caste system, as well as experience with the wider galaxy. This is a 'getting your feet wet' exercise for the species as a whole. Like with the Coluans, but with a much smaller sample size, there are good odds of getting helpful individuals on a non combat level, leading to useful resources for later on. And again, getting maybe one or two martian lanterns could certainly be helpful down the road.

It's a good deed, and while it's time invested, so far he's just had to be polite and offer things that are well within reason for him personally as well as the OLC and LEGION can handle.

OL also builds his reputation and his social contacts, even if the whole thing leads to nothing, he has flown the flag, given his corps some good PR and generally been visibly a good gang to know, even to those only tangentially involved. Those seeds planted will grow as time goes on, and with OL and the Corps, long term thinking is a good thing.
 
Back Seat (part 10)
  • Threadmarks
    • 5th July 2012
    21:41 GMT

    "'…interest from a number of parties.'"

    S'yrra is telling me as accurately as she can what the apparently silent J'emm is broadcasting telepathically to the rest of the Council. I've still got my shields up, and unless they specifically ask I'm not going to lower them. It's best if I maintain a single story regarding the safeness of touching my mind.

    "'We have long been limited to Mars despite our technology making it perfectly possible to leave our world. Even at its most restrictive, this is an opportunity for Martians to hear the thoughts of those whom we would never have been able to meet without this...'"

    J'emm is standing in… Martians don't have political parties or heads of state in the way that Britain or America do, so the system for determining who speaks is a little different. The parties who wish to present particular viewpoints pick a spokesmartian from amongst themselves, and they get to take a central position where everyone can question them. And because the telepathy is a two-way street, each party knows how and why each other party feels the way they do.

    That may well go some way to explaining why P'thet isn't giving a speech for anyone. There was a bit in… Feet of Clay..? Or was it Fifth Elephant? Where one character observed that people like seeing virtue in others, as long as it doesn't cost them anything. And here, her 'traditional virtues' could well cost them a great deal. I don't expect that more than a radical fringe here are eager to give up their inherited authority, but P'thet's particular brand of fanaticism would just alienate people.

    I'm a witness, along with the current Manhunter Marshall and… A couple of Whites I haven't met. One has a Manhunter escort and the other doesn't. Not sure who they are and I don't really need to know. Whoever they are, the Council will make a decision before too long and I'll just go from there.

    J'emm steps back slightly, and another Red I haven't met before steps forward.

    "'The principal issue for debate is not the role of any group within our society. It is not the extent of our involvement with aliens. And it is not the extent to which members of our species wish to leave Mars. The principal issue for debate is the relationship between the Prelates of individual cities and the Planetary Council itself. The issue is whether we are a government or a deliberative body to coordinate the cities. The legal question which Prelate J'emm brings before us is one which would not traditionally be one for us to debate and yet in the present circumstances we find that we must.'"

    "'We are telepaths. Since Karmang established our civilisation there have been only a handful of our people who could truly be considered isolated from one another. And from the information Orange Lantern has shared with us it seems likely that we were not isolated from one another even before that. But distance…'"

    I tune out the rest of -coin flip- his opening remarks and lean closer to S'yrra.

    "In summary?"

    "M'ronn is a proponent of city rights. He supported the redevelopment of the surface being organised through the Council because it was a worldwide endeavour, but he does not feel that laws affecting a single city should be determined here."

    "So what does that say about individuals who want to leave a city and not go to another?"

    "He has not directly addressed-. Ah."

    "Ah?"

    "He believes that it should be the exclusive purview of the city's leadership."

    "Which would in effect mean that we lose."

    "Not necessarily. Pressure could be brought to bear. But it would be a setback."

    "Asking for a friend. What would the logical conclusion of his belief structure mean for declarations of war?"

    S'yrra blinks. Ah, no, her telepathy momentarily shut down. Martians don't naturally have eyelids.

    "Logically? If the justification for war was a condition which only… Only applied to a single city, it would be an affair for that city."

    "Interesting thing, politics. Will P'thet be voting his way, or will someone be arguing for the Council to adopt the Neapolitan position?"

    "A minimal group size is required for a Speaker to be appointed. Prelate P'thet's particular interpretation of our traditions does not meet the requirement."

    "And so J'emm comes off as a statist. And the other… Individual?"

    "She openly wishes for the Planetary Council to take authority for dealing with matters external to Mars, and to highly restrict the circumstances in which an individual can leave in much the same way individual Prelates can restrict travel to their citizens now."

    Huh. So I actually need that last Speaker to lose. Oh, okay, not need, but that would result in the least work on my part to bring about my preferred outcome.

    "Has this sort of debate been going on for a while?"

    "Since J'onn J'onzz returned for the first time. Before that it was occasionally discussed, but there was no urgency to it. Even afterwards, there was little contact with Earth. The fact that your world is inhabited wasn't news to us, and no one on Earth wanted to visit. There was nothing that was worth trading. And then you visited us, and it became a good deal more urgent."

    "What's Prelate J'emm's position on that?"

    "That discussing wider political issues distracts us away from the topic at hand."

    "Yeah, but it does sound like something that would make resolving all of the other issues a lot more simple."

    "It would delay you."

    "As much as I might regard myself as the most important person in the universe, intellectual honesty requires that I acknowledge that other people erroneously believe that of themselves as well."

    "… Yes."

    "It's really no effort for me to check back in a month-."

    The third speaker steps back from their speaking position. There's a brief pause, then the Martian who appears to be overseeing the proceedings gestures to-. The Marshall, who strides into the centre of the room.

    "And him?"

    "The Marshall distrusts all external influences. And since he's aware of what the Guardians did to our ancestors, he feels that his distrust was always well founded."

    "Oh? How does he feel about me?"

    "He hasn't said anything yet."

    "Right, but he's the highest ranking Manhunter officer and you're Prelate J'emm's aide. I assumed that you'd keep up to date."

    "I have. I just don't know what he thinks about you. You aren't the centre of the universe."

    "That's what you think."
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    And it is not the extent of members of our species away from Mars.
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    Extend -> extent

    Mr Zoat said:
    "As much as I might regard myself as the most important person in the universe, intellectual honesty requires that I acknowledge that other people erroneously believe that of themselves as well."
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    Mr Zoat said:
    "That's what you think."
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    Maybe someone should take the rings away from Paul for a bit.

    /s
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "'…interest from a number of parties.'"
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    Mr Zoat said:
    "'We have long been limited to Mars despite our technology making it perfectly possible to leave our world. Even at its most restrictive, this is an opportunity for Martians to hear the thoughts of those whom we would never have been able to meet without this...'"
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    Mr Zoat said:
    "'The principle issue for debate is not the role of any group within our society. It is not the extend of our involvement with aliens. And it is not the extent of members of our species away from Mars. The principle issue for debate is the relationship between the Prelates of individual cities and the Planetary Counsel itself. The issue is whether we are a government or a deliberative body to coordinate the cities. The legal question which Prelate J'emm brings before us is one which would not traditionally be one for us to debate and yet in the present circumstances we find that we must.'"
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    Each of these sentences has three ' , when it should only be "

    Mr Zoat said:
    is two-way street
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    maybe 'is a'

    Mr Zoat said:
    his
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    You can just use zhe if you're not sure what the gender of someone is.
     
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