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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

So....he recognizes that he's a sociopath and is testing to see if he can still function, and STILL doesn't reset?

Like, I don't get it. I mean, obviously he doesn't want to, but even the two alien thinkers of Grayven and Para-Paul would be like "Yeah....this is going poorly."

Evil Juice is a hell of a drug kids.

It's the whole 'slippery slope' argument. He doesn't want to reset, so he's proving to himself why he shouldn't, by figuring out how to still work towards the "greater good", and keep what he's gained.

Remember, few people wake up in the morning saying that they want to be evil. Lex Luthor and R'as al Ghul consider themselves heroes and saviors, not supervillains.

He's basically trying to rationalise his behaviour and prove that it's the right way to act, even if most other rational people would tell him that he's wrong.

Pretty standard supervillain behaviour.
 
So....he recognizes that he's a sociopath and is testing to see if he can still function, and STILL doesn't reset?

Like, I don't get it. I mean, obviously he doesn't want to, but even the two alien thinkers of Grayven and Para-Paul would be like "Yeah....this is going poorly."
He seems to be thinking of himself as a separate person than his pre serum self, so resetting would be killing himself.
 
I now have the image of paragon and renegade fighting Tangseid with paragon on renegades shoulders.

Just thought I'd mention it.

Lol.

I kind of want Blue Paul of the Young Offenders to get the chance to take Tangseid down.

"You were playing on bloody easy mode, and this is what you go and do?"
 
What I want to know is: How did Sociopath Paul end up with Personable Power Ring? Only Grayvan's Sinistro Ai Yellow Power Ring has anything resembling a personality, and that one is all "Fear Me and Tremble Mortals!" Sort of. Kinda. If you look at from a certain angle and squint your eyes jjjuuusssttt right...
 
Lol.

I kind of want Blue Paul of the Young Offenders to get the chance to take Tangseid down.

"You were playing on bloody easy mode, and this is what you go and do?"

Some kind of redemption story for Baul.

Though first he'll have to get a lantern or a power up.

What I want to know is: How did Sociopath Paul end up with Personable Power Ring? Only Grayvan's Sinistro Ai Yellow Power Ring has anything resembling a personality, and that one is all "Fear Me and Tremble Mortals!" Sort of. Kinda. If you look at from a certain angle and squint your eyes jjjuuusssttt right...

Either the one that made this ring decided to give it more of a personality, or Tangseid gave it one himself.
 
Maybe in Tangsied verse, 2 pauls inserted. One in his normal body and one is his ring. i know its unlikely but i'm trying new suggestions since most reasonable ones have already been made.
 
So....he recognizes that he's a sociopath and is testing to see if he can still function, and STILL doesn't reset?

Like, I don't get it. I mean, obviously he doesn't want to, but even the two alien thinkers of Grayven and Para-Paul would be like "Yeah....this is going poorly."


Tangsied's starting point was 'Paul the atheist utilitarian, with the emotional foundations of average British lad'

Shown by the other Pauls utilitarian tends to stick despite of the version or the ring. Before coming to earth ###, Paul's morality has been something he's investigated and studied. Hence is schooling on the philosophy. Most people don't go cracking out Plato and Machiavelli when they end up in a strange new place. Other Pauls have been more then willing to throw aside social norms now that they have the power to do so. Even without the Evil Sauce. Even Saul's 'fuck the corpse' utility of being emotionally support was both manipulative and norm breaking for the NICE version.

Zoat's a fan of Babylon 5, the with the questioning nature of the vorlons and shadows from there get a reference here and there. Order and Chaos, right and wrong and the exploration of such things. Most Paul stories could be seen as an answer to 'who you are in the dark' but with each it had a ring and events shift the answer a bit to one side or another.

Tangsied's use of the formula DID make him a sociopath of a sort. Which from his current POV is if not an improvement, then a more focused and more utilitarian mindset. Stripping away aspects of himself he on some level saw as holding him back. He understands he's lost aspects of himself, and has enough understanding to want those back, but he's even more utilitarian then before, and admits (or deludes) himself into seeing it as worth it overall for the Ends, even if he didn't understand the full cost of the Means at the time.


Still, poor socialization and poor scientific practice to have doped himself without a fully external review. I'd....hazard a guess that he was a touch less trusting then OL when he showed up, much like how Renegade was a touch more angry. And like each Paul we've seen, that small difference gets amplified as events go forwards.
 
Our agreement is that I'd obey his orders, not that I'd be his slave. We've never said that I wouldn't take independent action. But, if you're worried about me not worrying, I'll phone him now.
goddamn just do the reset. the difference will be clearer. then you can compare and dose yourself again. all this would be solved with some cybernetic augmentation.
 
goddamn just do the reset. the difference will be clearer. then you can compare and dose yourself again.
He used a chemical augmentation because he thought that it wouldn't alter his mind. Now that it has, he doesn't want to undo it for exactly the same reason that he wouldn't have used it if he understood what it did.
all this would be solved with some cybernetic augmentation.
If David Kim was around, you'd be on to something. However, any other cybernetic would come without an auto-repair, which would be a major problem if he found himself without a ring.
 
He used a chemical augmentation because he thought that it wouldn't alter his mind. Now that it has, he doesn't want to undo it for exactly the same reason that he wouldn't have used it if he understood what it did.
yes, but wouldnt it be the "original" him if he reset it? because it feels like he rather "lost" something in the process.

If David Kim was around, you'd be on to something. However, any other cybernetic would come without an auto-repair, which would be a major problem if he found himself without a ring.
you know there is nothing stopping you from recreating david's work. since you have a power ring and was born with the ability to learn new skills as a sapiant naturally is. the ring could be theoretically used to teach yourself, science, engineering, medicine, and chemistry to recreate his work.

edit: and math. i forgot to list the most important subject

p.s thank you so much for the link. i just found new hero i like. a scientist hero. victor stone doesnt live up to his potential in my opinion. is david kim still being featured today?
 
yes, but wouldnt it be the "original" him if he reset it? because it feels like he rather "lost" something in the process.
Why would new!him care about original!him?
you know there is nothing stopping you from recreating david's work. since you have a power ring and was born with the ability to learn new skills as a sapiant naturally is. the ring could be theoretically used to teach yourself, science, engineering, medicine, and chemistry to recreate his work.

edit: and math. i forgot to list the most important subject
The only nanotech he's seen on Earth to date explicitly eats everything it comes into contact with.
p.s thank you so much for the link. i just found new hero i like. a scientist hero. victor stone doesn't live up to his potential in my opinion. is david kim still being featured today?
Pass. A glance at the Wikipedia page suggests not.
 
It's not THAT bad? Sure, there are no Earth Green lanterns left, but there's probably a passable replacement among the other green lanterns or something? Maybe Killowog survives somehow and gets hardened by having the Earth lanterns brainwashed/ killed or something? Don't think it's been explained what happened to the GLC.
The problem isn't the lack of human lanterns.

It's Tangboy fucking over every other hero's ability to access other parts of the emotional spectrum by mind breaking them with Orange Light. Because without the ability to access and use all the other parts of the emotional spectrum, they can't stop the Blackest Lanterns when they come for the Life Entity.

And that's not even counting all the "can't be mind broken" heroes he would have had to kill that will be brought back by the Black Rings to kill him.
 
p.s thank you so much for the link. i just found new hero i like. a scientist hero. victor stone doesnt live up to his potential in my opinion. is david kim still being featured today?

Presuming it hasn't been cancelled, there's supposed to be a Milestone revival next year, so he's likely to show up.

DC hasn't included him in the main universe since his appearance as a Green Lantern in Anansi's alternate Justice League which included an Ocean Master who killed his brother and had a spiritual epiphany and a Firestorm who is actually a hivemind.
 
IIRC the ring can model an actual functioning brain, so the "snapshot" of his original personality could actually be alive in there. Remember that OL's original personality was from a non-magic/comic book physics universe, so a full working version of his brain can be simulated nothing but raw computing ability, even if the computer is made of the orange light.

What I want to know is: How did Sociopath Paul end up with Personable Power Ring? Only Grayvan's Sinistro Ai Yellow Power Ring has anything resembling a personality, and that one is all "Fear Me and Tremble Mortals!" Sort of. Kinda. If you look at from a certain angle and squint your eyes jjjuuusssttt right...

The first I believe answers the question posed by the second.
 
David Kim sounds a bit like Bloodshot. Oddly a non marvel or dc comic character that got a major film in recent years. Hell if we're talking nanotech powered supers not from the big two, maybe we could get a Paul to visit the more recent take on Captain Canuck .

Oh, I forgot that Generator Rex kid. Another source of nanotech that ....ok could possibly destroy the planet. Or Save it.
 
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Way I understand it is, is that Tangseid wants to stay the way he is now more than Paul wanted to revert himself after abit and since Tangsied is still the ring bearer and is physically the same person, his stronger more recent desire overrides what preserum dude wanted
 
Back Seat (part 8)
5th July 2012
19:54 GMT


"…relieved by how well you took it."

Commodore Amalak takes a sip of… Something expensive, no doubt.

"Though I personally thought that including you in the discussion would have made far more sense."

"Oh?"

"Your near-extermination of the Citadelians rather gave me the impression that you weren't shy about killing. I generally find that it's best that interested parties remain in the loop."

I'm curious about whether he's telling the truth or not, but not curious enough to want to brute force the ward he's wearing. I don't recognise the design, but to the best of my knowledge there's only one thaumically active world around here. And I only know of one magic user from there with whom he might be in contact. With the shield around Euphorix still very definitely up there's no way for Kalista to go home, so with the targets of the Omega Men's crusade gone I've really got no idea what she's doing with herself.

"On that score I very definitely agree. Did any of the survivors decide to stay working for you?"

"Regretting your decision?"

I shake my head. "Even if I was, I wouldn't just reverse it. People have to know that when you give your word, that's how things are going to be. How else can civilisation function?"

"Implanted explosives would work. Telepathic compulsion-."

"The second one doesn't."

"Oh?"

"My homeworld is home to dozens of native species, my own merely being the dominant one. But the next world out from our sun has a native sentient species as well."

"What a remarkably fecund system you inhabit."

I nod. "It is, rather. But the point is: a very long time ago that world was inhabited by… Can you imagine a species entirely composed of X'Hal clones?"

"Not without the aid of psychoactive substances. And I don't trade in those these days."

"Well, like that. They were so dangerous that the Guardians of the Universe stepped in and altered them. Changed them into something much less hostile and implanted certain directives designed to prevent them relapsing. And while as far as I know none have ever fully relapsed, there are plenty of very obvious problems that their civilisation has experienced as a result of the implanted commands."

"And the explosives?"

"I've never seen it tried. I suspect that the population would either be paralysed by fear or become so blasé about it that it stopped having the desired effect."

"I'm sure that your neighbours appreciate your belief that a man's word is his bond."

"You'd never know it to talk to them. Is Miss Gozzi-?"

"You know, I think I'm actually going to be offended. What makes her more interesting company than me?"

"Your species has already been reduced to below-sustainable levels of genetic variation, and I don't know where to find further genetic records. The Coluans are still a going concern. Narrowly. I can help their people in a way I can't help yours."

"Not… Easy to hear, but probably true. You never told me the outcome of your last visit."

I shake my head. "I never went to Colu itself. Starlag no longer exists, and its prisoners have been transferred to other locations. Vril Dox-. Vril Dox the Second-."

"I did assume."

"Accepted the twin positions of L.E.G.I.O.N. Supreme Commander and Orange Lantern Clarissi. But while I was there, I encountered a Green Lantern strike force going after the Computer Tyrants of Colu. I found out recently that they were successful in seizing the planet, but not before the residents were locked into a radiotelepathic network. The Green Lanterns haven't been able to crack it."

Amalak frowns distantly. "How.. many.. Coluans are held in that fashion?"

"It's a densely populated post-industrial planet. I think the total population is about sixty billion."

"And how many are.. at liberty?"

"I know of two."

He bows his head, the hand holding his glass going slightly limp.

"You will have.. whatever help I can give. What do you need Vran for?"

"As I said, my homeworld's neighbours are telepathic. I'm hopeful that they can pull the Computer Tyrants' thoughts apart while they're operating in an organic system. But they've never been exposed to Coluan thought processes before. Dox has just started a war, and while I doubt he'll object to a group of telepaths studying him, he's not exactly neurotypical."

That's… A lie. Dox grimaced when I asked, and I'm not sure how long he'd put up with it for.

"And then there's the issue of distance. He can't leave our command station to spend time having people looking at him, and transporting them would be a rather awkward prospect."

"Too far?"

"They suffer psychologically if there aren't enough other minds around. They usually spend all of their time in low-level psychic communion with one another, and struggle to cope without it."

"You want to take Vran back to your homeworld? Or its neighbour?"

"Actually, I'd rather bring them here. They need to get an idea of how she thinks when she's actually dealing with problems, not when she's stuck in an unfamiliar environment with little to do."

"Which would involve my most trusted subordinate opening her mind to a group of mental manipulation specialists for days on end."

"As I said, they're used to being in constant telepathic contact with one another. They don't have native faster than light travel, they don't have any contact with this part of the galaxy. They won't care about your commercial secrets, and..." I look away for a moment. "The memoirs of a member of their species who spent several decades as a pornographic performer on my world have recently been placed in wide circulation on their planet. I doubt that her personal life -no matter how interesting- could possibly arouse their interest."

"That-."

"Did I mention that they're also shapeshifters? Nearly fully protean?"

"As-. I.. don't think that will be an issue." He puts down his glass and stands, motioning for me to follow. "Much as I'd like to I don't think I can really order Vran to cooperate with you, but I'll certainly try to persuade her on your behalf. When do you want to begin?"

"As soon as possible."
 
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This is shaping up to be quite interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing this play out, as well as see what ramifications OL's actions have had, if we do get to see them. Plus, I assume he'll be working with Jade again for this mission.
 

'no doubt'

still very definitely still up there's

maybe remove one still.

With the shield around Euphorix still very definitely still up there's no way for Kalista to go home

Maybe you can help with that by using the Honden.

"You know, I think I'm actually going to be offended. What makes her more interesting company than me?"

Nothing personal Amalak, it's just that humans have a thing for green space babes.

Your species has already been reduced to below-sustainable levels of genetic variation, and I don't know where to find further genetic records

Maybe the Controllers, or some other Maltusian, can help by doing some genetic tweeking.

are still a going concern

maybe 'an ongoing concern'

Lantern strike forcing going

'strike force'

The memoirs of a member

maybe 'memories'

Much as I'd like to I don't think

maybe add a comma 'like to, I don't think'

So were they talking about some Citadelians survivors Amalak fought and maybe managed to recruit?
 
5th July 2012
19:54 GMT


"…relieved by how well you took it."

Commodore Amalak takes a sip of… Something expensive, do doubt.
Ah, here to ask for the assistance of Amalak's Coluan adjutant? I suppose he needs a sample to provide the Martians with a general template for Coluan mind-forms...

"Though I personally thought that including you in the discussion would have made far more sense."

"Oh?"
That's an interesting idea. Staying on the good side of a clearly powerful being who's done you a few favours, and thus owe him quite a few in turn?

"Your near-extermination of the Citadelians rather gave me the impression that you weren't shy about killing. I generally find that it's best that interested parties remain in the loop."
Thought so. Pity you didn't think about that when the anti-Psion alliance got their genocide on...

I'm curious about whether he's telling the truth or not, but not curious enough to want to brute force the ward he's wearing. I don't recognise the design, but to the best of my knowledge there's only one thaumically active world around here. And I only know of one magic user from there with whom he might be in contact. With the shield around Euphorix still very definitely still up there's no way for Kalista to go home, so with the targets of the Omega Men's crusade gone I've really got no idea what she's doing with herself.
Probably making all manner of trouble as they wander the sector righting wrongs... And hopefully not being total A-holes.

"On that score I very definitely agree. Did any of the survivors decide to stay working for you?"

"Regretting your decision?"
Hardly. One joy of enlightenment is understanding 'needs must'...

I shake my head. "Even if I was, I wouldn't just reverse it. People have to know that when you give your word, that's how things are going to be. How else can civilisation function?"

"Implanted explosives would work. Telepathic compulsion-."
Oh, sure, rule by fear. But then, some people just aren't built to be nice leaders.

"The second one doesn't."

"Oh?"
Ah, dropping some Solar bullshit on the rest of the galaxy. A nice reminder that some species just naturally win the super-power lottery...

"My homeworld is home to dozens of native species, my own merely being the dominant one. But the next world out from our sun has a native sentient species as well."

"What a remarkably fecund system you inhabit."
Given that most other systems in the DC universe have maybe one sapient race apiece, and often whole sectors with a monoculture, I shudder at what he'd think of Earth's diverse nations...

I nod. "It is, rather. But the point is; a very long time ago that world was inhabited by… Can you imagine a species entirely composed of X'Hal clones?"

"Not without the aid of psychoactive substances. And I don't trade in those these days."
Yeah, that's about what the Guardians thought of the Burning Martians. Total nightmare.

"Well, like that. They were so dangerous that the Guardians of the Universe stepped in and altered them. Changed them into something much less hostile and implanted certain directives designed to prevent them relapsing. And while as far as I know none have ever fully relapsed, there are plenty of very obvious problems that their civilisation has experienced as a result of the implanted commands."

"And the explosives?"
Can you imagine the cost of that many explosives? Even if you only set it up to decimate the population, how long will it take them to just go 'eh, it's not that big a deal' and go right back to what they were doing?

"I've never seen it tried. I suspect that the population would either be paralysed by fear or become so blasé about it that it stopped having the desired effect."

"I'm sure that your neighbours appreciate your belief that a man's word is his bond."
I take it Amalak hasn't really been looking into humans... Not that it would be that easy anyway...

"You'd never know it to talk to them. Is Miss Gozzi-?"

"You know, I think I'm actually going to be offended. What makes her more interesting company than me?"
He has need of her brain. And not merely in an advisory role...

"Your species has already been reduced to below-sustainable levels of genetic variation, and I don't know where to find further genetic records. The Coluans are still a going concern. Narrowly. I can help their people in a way I can't help yours."

"Not… Easy to hear, but probably true. You never told me the outcome of your last visit."
Yeah, OL can be blunt like that. It's one reason he's so refreshing.

I shake my head. "I never went to Colu itself. Starlag no longer exists, and its prisoner have been transferred to other locations. Vril Dox-. Vril Dox the Second-."

"I did assume."
Yes, I think Vril Dox the First is still busy flying around collecting cities in bottles and blowing up planets, is he not?

"Accepted the twin positions of L.E.G.I.O.N. Supreme Commander and Orange Lantern Clarissi. But while I was there, I encountered a Green Lantern strike forcing going after the Computer Tyrants of Colu. I found out recently that they were successful in seizing the planet, but not before the residents were locked into a radiotelepathic network. The Green Lanterns haven't been able to crack it."

Amalak frowns distantly. "How.. many.. Coluans are held in that fashion?"
I see he has sympathy for them. Reminded of his own people's fate?

"It's a densely populated post-industrial planet. I think the total population is about sixty billion."

"And how many are.. at liberty?"
Not nearly enough. Unless you want to pull an Adam and Eve scenario. And I doubt either Vril Dox or Vran Gozzi here cares for that.

"I know of two."

He bows his head, the hand holding his glass going slightly limp.
Yes, it's quite the impressive scenario.

"You will have.. whatever help I can give. What do you need Vran for?"

"As I said, my homeworld's neighbours are telepathic. I'm hopeful that they can pull the Computer Tyrants' thoughts apart while they're operating in an organic system. But they've never been exposed to Coluan thought processes before. Dox has just started a war, and while I doubt he'll object to a group of telepaths studying him, he's not exactly neurotypical."
As I said, they'll need samples of Coluan mental structures. Don't want to go pulling a Computer Tyrant out by mistake...

That's… A lie. Dox grimaced when I asked, and I'm not sure how long he'd put up with it for.

"And then there's the issue of distance. He can't leave our command station to spend time having people looking at him, and transporting them would be a rather awkward prospect."
That's putting it mildly.

"Too far?"

"They suffer psychologically if there aren't enough other minds around. They usually spend all of their time in low-level psychic communion with one another, and struggle to cope without it."
It's nasty drawback the Guardians installed, isn't it? Imagine being forced to spend your time around other people all the damn time. No privacy, no alone time, no secrets... And merely trying to have such things mark you as a little off.

"You want to take Vran back to your homeworld? Or its neighbour?"

"Actually, I'd rather bring them here. They need to get an idea of how she thinks when she's actually dealing with problems, not when she's stuck in an unfamiliar environment with little to do."
Good idea. God only knows what it's like for the Coluans inside their simulations. For all we know, it's like a massively multiplayer version of Submachine in there...

"Which would involve my most trusted subordinate opening her mind to a group of mental manipulation specialists for days on end."

"As I said, they're used to being in constant telepathic contact with one another. They don't have native faster than light travel, they don't have any contact with this part of the galaxy. They won't care about your commercial secrets, and..." I look away for a moment. "The memoirs of a member of their species who spent several decades as a pornographic performer on my world have recently been placed in wide circulation on their planet. I doubt that her personal life -no matter how interesting- could possibly arouse their interest."
That'll raise anyone's eyebrow. Now I wonder if Amalak will ask about these 'pornographic performances', just out of curiosity, of course.

"That-."

"Did I mention that they're also shapeshifters? Nearly fully protean?"
...Not really helping their case here, OL. I mean, it's something he needs to be told, I suppose, but... So blunt.

"As-. I.. don't think that will be an issue." He puts down his glass and stands, motioning for me to follow. "Much as I'd like to I don't think I can really order Vran to cooperate with you, but I'll certainly try to persuade her on your behalf. When do you want to begin?"

"As soon as possible."
Wasting no time, I see. Let's hope the lady is willing...

And the chain of deals continues. All this to get some skilled intellectuals for the war effort, eh? Certainly, anything that lessens the pressure on Dox is a good thing, though I wonder he's likely to take having other Coluans poking their noses into things...
 
That's an interesting idea.

And a smart one.

Thought so. Pity you didn't think about that when the anti-Psion alliance got their genocide on...

A lapse of judgement I'd say, and at least the race that went extinct was pure evil.

Probably making all manner of trouble as they wander the sector righting wrongs... And hopefully not being total A-holes.

Ehh, now they may not be so desperate due to having a chance at winning.

Plus the types of people they fight, pirates slavers, are kinda assholes themselves.

Oh, sure, rule by fear. But then, some people just aren't built to be nice leaders.

Vega doesn't exactly breed all that many nice or good leaders.

Except for maybe Tamaran, and even then they have some bad apples, like Komand'r.

As I said, they'll need samples of Coluan mental structures. Don't want to go pulling a Computer Tyrant out by mistake...

I think they actually want to pull out the Tyrants out of the minds of the Coluans.

It's nasty drawback the Guardians installed, isn't it?

Or it could be something they've always had, as they're a telepathic species, and the Guardians just chose to leave it there.

And the chain of deals continues. All this to get some skilled intellectuals for the war effort, eh? Certainly, anything that lessens the pressure on Dox is a good thing, though I wonder he's likely to take having other Coluans poking their noses into things...

Technically this is mostly to free the Coluans and not about the rest of the war effort.

Though if they do manage to free them then maybe some Coluans will want to join and thus L.E.G.I.O.N. gets a bunch of super intelligent members.
 
It's nasty drawback the Guardians installed, isn't it? Imagine being forced to spend your time around other people all the damn time. No privacy, no alone time, no secrets... And merely trying to have such things mark you as a little off.

I don't think it's something the Guardians put in.

I think it may be closest to something like sensory deprivation. Martians are pretty much never without telepathic contact. It literally starts in the womb with them. It's something so omnipresent for them that it's lack is likely felt so extremely because of the contrast.

Point in fact, there's a sort of similar thing in humans. There's special quiet rooms that been designed for various sound testing purposes that completely kill all ambient sound in them. There's a few that are open to the public to try out and all sorts of reactions have been reported from people having trouble with balance and walking, nausea, to even hallucinations. The longest anyone has been in one those rooms, IIRC, was about 45 minutes and I think I remember reading that the guy was literally beating at the door to get let out by the end.
 

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