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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Stsword said:
Modern wizard society in the Harry Potter books, at the very least, knew enough about thaumatology that even people who hadn't even graduated Hogwarts could invent new spells/potions.

Snape invented new spells while he was a student, it's implied Hermione did the same, and the twins sold things they invented in their joke shop.

So magic is a science they understand well enough that making new spells seems to be analogous to writing a new computer program in terms of achievement.

Which suggests progress not regression, with new spells constantly being invented, advancing the state of the art.

Obviously not all new spells are shared, hence why not everyone has a philosopher's stone, so it would seem some spells were lost to the ravages of time.
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Right. Irl alchemists often kept their records in code that nobody could read... including modern historians wanting to learn about the early days of chemistry.
Another reason they might lose some things without constantly trending backwards is extinction. Apparently, there was once a plant that could be used as a contraceptive which the Romans found out about and used. They used all of it, in fact and if something like that were to happen in their world, the potions or whatever that the organism was used for would be impossible to make until and unless someone found an alternative.
 
Uhhhhh... while I'm generally of the mind that Harry Potter world building functions best when you don't think about it too hard we do see incremental increases via the Nimbus 2000 racing broom vs the Nimbus 2001s that Malfoy buys his way on the Slytherin team with.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"That is hardly proof. Karmang's knowledge of magic was vast; no doubt there are ways to shield against such spells."

"Yes."

A spectral Red Martian shimmers into existence besides Natasa.

"But my master had no knowledge of them. For all his insight he knew little more than he taught us."
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Mr Zoat said:
"Enunciation changes, even for us. But since it is what you want to know, I have never felt the spirit of my former master lose its material tether. I do not know how he has managed it. He never claimed to have taught us everything that he knew, but death-magic was never my focus either."
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Feels a little odd there. The way its written, and so close together. Saying that he knew his master didn't know much more than he taught, death magics wasn't his study, then admitting his master could have known more than he taught.
Surprised she didn't comment on the inconsistency there. Or that he could have shielded himself in death if his student doesn't know.?
 
Mr Zoat said:
People from the past who survived to the modern age probably do, but that's because they're the top fraction of a percent.
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yeah I can already tell if Paul runs into Thessaly neither one is going to be really happy about the meeting.

Anyone who is both powerful immortal magic and can be a body double for Taylor Hebert is someone best avoided.
 
Impartial Panic said:
yeah I can already tell if Paul runs into Thessaly neither one is going to be really happy about the meeting.

Anyone who is both powerful immortal magic and can be a body double for Taylor Hebert is someone best avoided.
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I think that Circe is this story's version of Thessaly.

When Renegade and her met once she disguised herself and the link for how she looked was a picture of Thessaly.
 
Rafin said:
Wow. How much did this cost you?
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fetchimage
 
hance1986 said:
Yeah but the naysayers can always say it's a human trick. Paul is close friends with a White, M'gann, he wants the color division to be resolved because all Martians are heh, the same. He brought a human necromancer.
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The funny thing is I could see the sorcerer and the very religious red being big supporters of improved white relations after they get over the shock- their city's strict hierarchy gave heavy religious vibes, and this is basically a religious revelation. I also love the idea of them just switching positions on the colorist issue due to the same religious fervor that lead to them having their initial position. And this whole thing is more likely because everyone around them, including all the whites and greens are all from this highly religious city of mars.
 
Tyrantviewer said:
The funny thing is I could see the sorcerer and the very religious red being big supporters of improved white relations after they get over the shock- their city's strict hierarchy gave heavy religious vibes, and this is basically a religious revelation. I also love the idea of them just switching positions on the colorist issue due to the same religious fervor that lead to them having their initial position. And this whole thing is more likely because everyone around them, including all the whites and greens are all from this highly religious city of mars.
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I wouldn't bet on it.

They may be highly religious, but they could also be just as, possibly more, bigoted than they are religious and may try to make excuses for why what Paul, Natasa, the Priest and J'emms assistant showed them all is either a lie or something they should ignore.
 
Bob_gump said:
Zfv
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Zfv to you too.
Darko said:
I wouldn't bet on it.

They may be highly religious, but they could also be just as, possibly more, bigoted than they are religious and may try to make excuses for why what Paul, Natasa, the Priest and J'emms assistant showed them all is either a lie or something they should ignore.
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Unfortunately for them, they were sharing events in real time with a priest who was convinced it was true. That colours their perception of events.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Zfv to you too.

Unfortunately for them, they were sharing events in real time with a priest who was convinced it was true. That colours their perception of events.
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Hmm... I guess just like in written form someone's biases come through, literally seeing it from that person's perspective would be that to the nth degree. So news on Mars is always coloured by the person who witnessed it, due to memory sharing.

Now that I think about it, Martian 'courts' must work VERY differently than human ones. 'Oh yeah? You're saying I killed him? Read my mind then, bro, I wasn't even there!'
 
Telepathic martian POV biases has been a plot point quite a few times, the one that comes off the top of my head was when the Martian porn actor gave the shape shifting power up pendant to Megan. She was afraid of going through the pendant because she wasn't sure how good would be the aforementioned porn actor from withholding his bias from the training and the information recorded in the pendant.

Anyways this exploded ordinance ought to cause interesting effects, but I think the climax of the episode is going to be when Apa and Guy show up to make testimony. I can already see Karman showing up with the hyper clan during this event, but it's anyone guess what he is going to do... I mean thanks to Paul Mars is closer to being habitable again (closer than it has been since the collapse at least), and Martian society has been kicked into overdrive without igniting violence yet. On the other hand if Karman was entirely rational he wouldn't have so readily made an enemy of Grayven...

Then again for Karman Grayven was just one alien making boast of power he didn't demonstrate to have (until he nuked Olympus with one of his God nukes), the Orange lanterns have demonstrated their power VERY obviously as there was a LITERAL planet parked next to Mars making their planets core molten and spin again, so Paul doesn't need to make any boast to demonstrate to Karman that turning him into an enemy is a very bad idea.

Yawn... Slepp
 
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Darko said:
I wouldn't bet on it.

They may be highly religious, but they could also be just as, possibly more, bigoted than they are religious and may try to make excuses for why what Paul, Natasa, the Priest and J'emms assistant showed them all is either a lie or something they should ignore.
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It can happen though with actual, true believers. In certain Churches, like the Roman Catholics or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint's, they have leaders who are considered "the highest authority next to God" (the Pope and the Prophet respectively).

If they one day declare "God has sent me a message that this racism is wrong" then you either repent of your sins or decide that the person who you have believed your whole life to lead your Church is wrong. Surprisingly, most people repent instead of turning away from their religion.

At one time, there was a false teaching in the LDS Church that black people could not become Deacons or Elders. This was a grave sin, not only for the members who practiced this but for the Church as a whole for allowing it. The First Presidency, lead by President Spencer W. Kimball, sent out Official Declaration 2. This can also be found in their Holy Scriptures under the "Doctrine and Covenants", and the Church changed greatly.

Some will choose not to accept what H'ronmeer said, but they will be in the minority and will not be welcomed into the majority of the religious establishment. I am not sure that Martian society has the concept of Excommunication, but people were excommunicated from the LDS Church for not accepting the Declaration that is now Scripture.
 
"At one time" Really? That's more than abit dishonest, considering it was changed in 1978, the phrase your looking for Gilhelmi.

Is "for the majority of mormon history, the church was run by racist shitbags" though considering recent political history "was" might be stretching the truth.
 
TheLunarwolf said:
"At one time" Really? That's more than abit dishonest, considering it was changed in 1978, the phrase your looking for Gilhelmi.

Is "for the majority of mormon history, the church was run by racist shitbags" though considering recent political history "was" might be stretching the truth.
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I mean, not that I wanna defend the Mormon church from anything, but I don't think the way he phrased it was especially deceptive. The same can be said of a lot of modern institutions, after all. Hell, the American Civil Rights movement only happened in the 60s and ended in 1968. I'm actually shocked that it only took the Mormon church a decade to get their head out of their ass.

Which is not to say that your characterization of the Mormon church's leadership was inaccurate. Just that if you look at them in the context of the rest of the US, they were behind but apparently not THAT far behind.
 
Laundromat2.0 said:
I mean, not that I wanna defend the Mormon church from anything, but I don't think the way he phrased it was especially deceptive. The same can be said of a lot of modern institutions, after all. Hell, the American Civil Rights movement only happened in the 60s and ended in 1968. I'm actually shocked that it only took the Mormon church a decade to get their head out of their ass.

Which is not to say that your characterization of the Mormon church's leadership was inaccurate. Just that if you look at them in the context of the rest of the US, they were behind but apparently not THAT far behind.
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I vaguely remember reading something about how they only changed because they would lose their tax-exempt status if they didn't.

But that's off topic, let's talk about Paul. Did Eris instruct him to french this necromancer as well? Is it a standing order from her?
 
Ardy said:
I vaguely remember reading something about how they only changed because they would lose their tax-exempt status if they didn't.

But that's off topic, let's talk about Paul. Did Eris instruct him to french this necromancer as well? Is it a standing order from her?
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I think Paul chose to do that of his own free will.
 
Queshire said:
Uhhhhh... while I'm generally of the mind that Harry Potter world building functions best when you don't think about it too hard we do see incremental increases via the Nimbus 2000 racing broom vs the Nimbus 2001s that Malfoy buys his way on the Slytherin team with.
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I get that they used brooms in the story because it fit with the overall esthetic, but seriously, nobody every tried using something more comfortable? Flying carpet anyone? Just as easy to store by rolling it up. Heck, leave it on the floor in the middle of the room when not being used because it's a flipping carpet!
 
Sockmonkey said:
I get that they used brooms in the story because it fit with the overall esthetic, but seriously, nobody every tried using something more comfortable? Flying carpet anyone? Just as easy to store by rolling it up. Heck, leave it on the floor in the middle of the room when not being used because it's a flipping carpet!
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Flying carpets are a thing in harry potter, brooms though were the motorcycles of magic flight, flying carpets are soccermom vans.
 
Sockmonkey said:
I get that they used brooms in the story because it fit with the overall esthetic, but seriously, nobody every tried using something more comfortable? Flying carpet anyone? Just as easy to store by rolling it up. Heck, leave it on the floor in the middle of the room when not being used because it's a flipping carpet!
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The brooms may be a cultural thing to the people of the West, while flying carpets are Eastern, so that may explain why they use them even if they're not conformable
 
They did have hagrids flying bike, and the flying car, which were things that rons father worked on for the muggle department of what ever. At least that's something of a step forwards. I'm all in favour of giving the wizards seat belts and air bags.
 
Back Seat (part 20)
  • Threadmarks
    • 5th July 2012
    13:32 GMT

    The White Martians of Xan'Xie waste no time in taking advantage of the Council's decision. Overloaded civilian bio-transports are already flying out of the city's surface exits, heading towards more liberal cities. Given the size of the population shift they're not going to permanent homes, just temporary residences until such time as the other cities can divvy them up. Over to my right J'emm appears to be regarding the scene impassively, though for all I know he's shouting telepathic greetings at everyone. S'yrra's still in near-human shape and she mostly just looks sad.

    The Council wasn't quite willing to flat out override a Prelate on internal law at this stage, but the travel restriction was struck down almost immediately. Where things will be tomorrow, once they've had time to accept that their entire civilisation is built on a bedrock of lies, I don't know. J'emm's stock -and that of the rest of the liberal wing- has shot up, but with his argument 'won' they've still got to decide between federalist and unitarian government structures. I have no idea what his view on that is, and as long as no one's suffering who doesn't want to I don't particularly care.

    The Martians on foot are visible now, and the fact that the surface is technically liveable means that they could make the trek on foot if they had to. Fortunately they don't; the cities that have agreed to receive them are sending Manhunter ships and White advocacy groups are sending civilian transports. And I'm here with a L.E.G.I.O.N. transport in the hope that-

    "Heehahaha!"

    -Mr. B'lanx found some volunteers.

    Ring? Yes, that is him, in a humanish shape and having to gasp for breath. He lands unsteadily in front of me and claps his right hand on my pauldron.

    "You exceeded my wildest expectations! Karmang was White!"

    "So it appears."

    "Their entire civil order is in ruins! Is this how you handle everything?!"

    "N-."

    …

    "Not everything. And it's not usually this fast."

    "The Hyperclan couldn't destroy them this fast." He backs up slightly, nodding confidently. "I and many of my brethren will join you in the service of L.E.G.I.O.N.."

    "You sure? You don't want to oversee things here? The White revolution isn't over yet."

    "Yes, I am sure. The shift in the world-mind is undeniable. Even the Reds don't believe their lies any longer, and we all know it." He straightens slightly, then turns back to watch as a small number of Green Martians emerge from the city and float towards the oncoming Manhunter transports. "And the Greens have their eyes opened as well."

    "Not all cities are as bad as-."

    "I know. But this is the purest form of what happens all across Mars, and even the Greens don't like it. Not when they're confronted with it. I wish to join L.E.G.I.O.N. for the reasons you said: to secure our future by force of arms if necessary, and to build a future by our own efforts. I still want a power ring, but I can earn that by my own efforts if no one is stopping me in the name of a fake idol."

    I nod. "Alright, well, if you could lead everyone who feels the same way-."

    "In that ship?"

    He gestures to the crowd behind him who aren't moving towards the Manhunter ships. It's continuing to grow as more Whites leave the city behind him.

    "You'll need something bigger."

    "We can do shuttle runs. We'll be sending you to Earth for a little while to get used to alien thoughts before transporting you to Maltus, but our first stop is Colu."

    He freezes, his eyes lighting up for a moment. Then he and about two hundred other Martians fly up towards the transport ship.

    J'emm walks over to me as they leave.

    "I had hoped to talk to him. I wanted him to see in my mind that I truly believe in equality."

    "I.. don't.. think he's going to want to talk to Red Martians for a little while. Can I assume that you don't need me in order to keep things going here?"

    "You have what you want. And I do too, if not… Not in the manner I wanted."

    "Is this a problem for you?"

    "Karmang was revered by-. Not all, clearly. But I held him as an example on… How I should live my life."

    "What, and you can't do that because he's White? That stuff about colour not determining your life doesn't just apply to Whites, you know. You can take White, Greens… Heck, if you find a Yellow Martian you admire you can try emulating them."

    "Perhaps I have a great deal to… Unthink."

    "I've got a friend who's going through something similar. If you want to talk to her-."

    **Why are you here?**

    "Let me deal with that first and then come back to you."

    I fly past the White Martians making their way into the ship via the embarkation ramps, searching for-.

    Oh. Right.

    Even with everything going on, J'emm was kind enough to put the word out and a small group of telepathic specialists agreed to join me in order to help the Coluans. Naturally, being allowed to rise to the top of their fields, they're Red. Well, five out of six are Red, the sixth being Green. Mr. B'lanx's posture suggests that he's less than impressed with their presence.

    I land a short distance away. The posture of the specialists is studiously neutral. I doubt that they'll be joining up after this, but… Maybe they'll ask for a trip to Earth.

    "Problem?"

    "You were hiring Whites."

    "And I want you to perform a delicate telepathic transfer. Do you have the training or experience to do that?"

    "You told us that we would be taught."

    "Yes? And where did you expect me to find someone intimately familiar with the capacities of Martian telepaths?"

    "Anywhere else."

    "Mr B'lanx, let me be clear. You have accepted my offer of employment. This means that you work for me. Since you're still in the cooling off period and since we're still on Mars, you are free to leave. But if you don't, that means that you will be working with who I tell you to work with, on the tasks to which I assign you."

    He glowers with glowing eyes.

    "Well?"

    "I will… Stay."

    **I am no happier about this than you are.** The senior specialist steps forward. **It is difficult enough to teach complete neophytes, worse when lives are at risk. But I will direct you far better than-.**

    "I'm sorry, my question wasn't rhetorical. My colleague Henry King has substantial experience with Martian telepathy, and I'm making Adam Blake the project lead. I will be expecting you to defer to them. Again, if you can't agree to those terms you are of course free to leave."

    No response, though Mr. B'lanx's posture is less aggressive.

    "If there are no takers? Captain, please take us up."
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • On Harry Potter brooms; I mean, they're a semi-isolated culture of magic users. Of course their tech base is going to develop differently depending on their needs and respurces. Who's to say that there isn't a comfort charm on the brooms, or that they feel a need for airbags considering the sort of punishment wizards can evidently take.
     
    That ended on a much better note than I thought would happen. However, I'm still waiting on the other shoe to drop on Karmang. Also, I'm amused that Paul admitted that although he doesn't normally completely destroy the way a society functions, he has done it before when necessary.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    in front of my and claps
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    'of me'

    Mr Zoat said:
    "You exceeded my wildest expectations!
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    He does tend to do that.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "Their entire civil order is in ruins! Is this how you handle everything?!"
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    More or less.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "Karmang was revered by-. Not all, clearly. But I held him as an example on… How I should live my life."
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    Ehh, emulating a guy that helped a bunch of violent terrorists is probably not a good idea.

    Mr Zoat said:
    Heck, if you find a Yellow Martian you admire you can try emulating them."
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    Are Yellow Martians the Martian equivalent of albinos in this story?

    I remember Obloquy had M'gann mention that they were like that in his story and I was wondering if it's the same here.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    But this is the purist form of what happens all across Mars,
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    'purest', though purist works too.

    Queshire said:
    On Harry Potter brooms; I mean, they're a semi-isolated culture of magic users. Of course their tech base is going to develop differently depending on their needs and respurces. Who's to say that there isn't a comfort charm on the brooms, or that they feel a need for airbags considering the sort of punishment wizards can evidently take.
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    Harry Potter and the Vibrating Broom
     
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