With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Sockmonkey]

This is the guy who invented the technique for making purebloods yes? Techniques which were lost by everyone else which is why they had to resort to splicing in fish bits.

 

[Darko]

Wonder why is he so bitter about it?

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Because a guy who has commited crimes against his people, like killing potentially hundreds of them, has kinda gotten away with his crimes without being punished in any meaningful way.

And no, I don't think the deal Manta has with Atlantis is something Orin is all that satisfied with, at least compared to imprisoning Manta or having him executed.

Never heard of Operation Paperclip? As an American Mister Curry really can't complain.

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If he was behind Operation Paperclip, then yeah he couldn't complain about doing something similar.

But seeing as he had nothing to do with that thing, then he may complain.

It's like saying a German or American can't complain about genocide just because their country commited it in the past, long before they were born and in which they had no say.

 

[Darko]

This is the guy who invented the technique for making purebloods yes? Techniques which were lost by everyone else which is why they had to resort to splicing in fish bits.

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Apparently they weren't lost.

Ahri'ahn was just a massive racist and thought that only those from Poseidonis, and maybe Venturia, should be purebloods while everyone else should be part fish or any other type of sea dwelling animal.

 

[Cuchulin]

The Suicide Squad doesn't work for villains so powerful that they could kill the whole Squad in seconds.

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The Squad has had powerful magic users before, like Enchantress, so they have had members that could potentially kill others with ease before.

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Task Force X has had Zod as a member.

 

[Ardy]

Task Force X has had Zod as a member.

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man he is never going to live to that down

 

[Mr Zoat]

Wonder why is he so bitter about it?

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Because the law was created in a most violent era, when war between city-states was common. It was written with that in mind, and as Atlantis became increasingly peaceful it was left on the books because it didn't matter.

There's a law in England was dates back... Hundreds of years, which says that parishes are financially responsible for the upkeep of their local church. At the time it wasn't an issue because virtually everyone it applied to would have worshipped there. It's still active today. I have chancellery insurance, just in case I'm liable. If a church loses its roof, local Jews, Muslims, Hindus and everyone else can be required to pay for repairs.

 

[BartlettMagic]

so first off, loving the story so far. i always like the un-men angles.

but i have a bit of an unrelated question. it's come to me while we've been so focused on Grayven for these past few entries.

how is it that Grayven is being treated like the real Grayven? like, don't any of these people remember when an Orange Lantern showed up, and joined the Teens? do they not remember him being a normal, albeit physically optimal, individual? he then injects himself with a couple of things, i can't remember what exactly, and now he's the de facto god of conquest. what is the in-world justification for everyone just being ok with Orange Lantern -> Muscled guy -> god of conquest. you'd think that Batman, at the very least, would be skeptical about things. how is it that everybody acknowledges that he's Grayven, despite there being an actual real Grayven elsewhere, when everybody also knows he started out as a peak human? is this something that father- or mother-box did in the awakening process?

 

[Darko]

so first off, loving the story so far. i always like the un-men angles.

but i have a bit of an unrelated question. it's come to me while we've been so focused on Grayven for these past few entries.

how is it that Grayven is being treated like the real Grayven? like, don't any of these people remember when an Orange Lantern showed up, and joined the Teens? do they not remember him being a normal, albeit physically optimal, individual? he then injects himself with a couple of things, i can't remember what exactly, and now he's the de facto god of conquest. what is the in-world justification for everyone just being ok with Orange Lantern -> Muscled guy -> god of conquest. you'd think that Batman, at the very least, would be skeptical about things. how is it that everybody acknowledges that he's Grayven, despite there being an actual real Grayven elsewhere, when everybody also knows he started out as a peak human? is this something that father- or mother-box did in the awakening process?

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I think that he may have told them that he lost his memories or his power and was regaining it.

Also after Scott and Barda came on the scene and started treating him like he was Grayven, people may have lost any doubts that he was Grayven.

And they may honestly not know about the actual Grayven and what he's doing.

Darkseid may know who he is but may not care since he may view him as being superior to his actual son.

 

[BartlettMagic]

I think that he may have told them that he lost his memories or his power and was regaining it.

Also after Scott and Barda came on the scene and started treating him like he was Grayven, people may have lost any doubts that he was Grayven.

And they may honestly not know about the actual Grayven and what he's doing.

Darkseid may know who he is but may not care since he may view him as being superior to his actual son.

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thank you for the quick response. i completely forgot about Scott and Barda. i also forgot about that carload of new god teens that identified him as Grayven, which is when it really started to kick in. but i still have a hard time with anyone on the team being like, 'no, he's not a god, i literally was there the day he injected himself to get all of those muscles'. i've been more or less thinking that, since Grayven knows he's not the real Grayven, he's been deliberately manipulating the almost-trope of comic book characters being dumbasses and not being able to put 2 and 2 together. but that falls apart when you have Batman there, supposedly the best detective on earth.

it's also caused me to quietly cross my fingers and wait for the entry where the Question pops up out of nowhere and accuses Grayven of being an impostor and presents all kinds of Pepe Silvia evidence to the JL.

 

[Darko]

thank you for the quick response. i completely forgot about Scott and Barda. i also forgot about that carload of new god teens that identified him as Grayven, which is when it really started to kick in. but i still have a hard time with anyone on the team being like, 'no, he's not a god, i literally was there the day he injected himself to get all of those muscles'. i've been more or less thinking that, since Grayven knows he's not the real Grayven, he's been deliberately manipulating the almost-trope of comic book characters being dumbasses and not being able to put 2 and 2 together. but that falls apart when you have Batman there, supposedly the best detective on earth.

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Again it's possible that he just told them he lost his powers and was regaining them.

He could have told them that injecting himself with the serum was so that he'd go back to looking like he did and regaining his strength.

Though yeah it still feels weird.

it's also caused me to quietly cross my fingers and wait for the entry where the Question pops up out of nowhere and accuses Grayven of being an impostor and presents all kinds of Pepe Silvia evidence to the JL.

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Well now I wanna see this happen.

 

[Mr Zoat]

For the most part, they don't actually think that he's that Grayven. The League aren't that stupid. Some of them honestly think that he thinks he's Grayven, and some of them aren't sure that there's a difference. But none of them want Darkseid bringing a fleet to Earth.

 

[DrThoth]

thank you for the quick response. i completely forgot about Scott and Barda. i also forgot about that carload of new god teens that identified him as Grayven, which is when it really started to kick in. but i still have a hard time with anyone on the team being like, 'no, he's not a god, i literally was there the day he injected himself to get all of those muscles'. i've been more or less thinking that, since Grayven knows he's not the real Grayven, he's been deliberately manipulating the almost-trope of comic book characters being dumbasses and not being able to put 2 and 2 together. but that falls apart when you have Batman there, supposedly the best detective on earth.

it's also caused me to quietly cross my fingers and wait for the entry where the Question pops up out of nowhere and accuses Grayven of being an impostor and presents all kinds of Pepe Silvia evidence to the JL.

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The actual 'explanation' he gave them about going to a plane where souls don't exist (Earth Prime) which led to his 'amnesia' happened offscreen, as far as I know. I've posted a quote I think is relevant regarding the reaction to his initial claim of being Grayven. I'm not sure what the League or other people actually believe about him at the present time.

"Are you Grayven, son of Darkseid?"

That's the biggy. "If I am, then Earth-" I nod at Scott and Barda "-its New God residents included, is safe from Apokoliptian intervention for the foreseeable future. If I'm not and Darkseid finds out, then he will feel that I've made a fool of him and things will go rather badly for us all. Do you really want an answer?"

Batman's eyes narrow slightly. Not the most helpful answer I suppose but it's the best one I could think to give. There's a grating noise as Colonel Fang folds his arms across his chest. "I do not believe that one is required. Your devotion to the defence of the Earth has been noted, Grayven."

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[Cuchulin]

There's a law in England was dates back... Hundreds of years, which says that parishes are financially responsible for the upkeep of their local church. At the time it wasn't an issue because virtually everyone it applied to would have worshipped there. It's still active today. I have chancellery insurance, just in case I'm liable. If a church loses its roof, local Jews, Muslims, Hindus and everyone else can be required to pay for repairs.

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On the one hand as a American this seems weird and wrong to me, on the other hand I can see it as a good thing by helping with the up keep of historic buildings.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Imagine if George Washington in London showed up at the head of an army of revolutionary soldiers. Would you blame the Americans?

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Would you blame me if I said yes I would?

 

[BartlettMagic]

The actual 'explanation' he gave them about going to a plane where souls don't exist (Earth Prime) which led to his 'amnesia' happened offscreen, as far as I know. I've posted a quote I think is relevant regarding the reaction to his initial claim of being Grayven. I'm not sure what the League or other people actually believe about him at the present time.

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excellent, thank you.

 

[Cuchulin]

Would you blame me if I said yes I would?

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Maybe.

 

[Stsword]

Kind of ironic having Black Adam be the best defense against Arion so far.

Or at least I think so, since in the comics Arion was capable of handing out FISS powers, that being Power Girl's origin for a while.

DC later retconned that, but it's one of the retcons that doesn't actually make sense.

Rip Hunter met young Kara, Arion's granddaughter, in pre-deluge Atlantis, and the Arion series had an Atlantean god mentioning to Power Girl that Arion brags about her all the time.

Superboy punches I suppose.

 

[Radix]

Given that I read through pretty recently, I can give a bit more comprehensive on Renegade.

He showed up as someone without a soul and an orange ring. He then used the Kobra Venom to become the super strong brute. He looked like Grayven when the Forever People showed up and they called him Grayven. He then took the Father Box from Desaad and used it to do some upgrades on himself while claiming the role of Grayven. One of the main perks being the construction of a soul I believe.

He claimed to be Grayven because he went to Earth Prime where he experienced life there at the cost of his soul, then came to Earth 16.5 or whatever where he reawakened. He displays the powers of a New God, and a vast understanding of what they can do with various knowledge that an outsider shouldn't seemingly possess. The advantage from his SI nature. He also even appears to have some memories of the actual Grayven somehow to the point that for a while he seemed unsure if it was true that he was actually Grayven.

Another point in his identity is that Scott and Barda acknowledged him although admitted it had been a while since they met him. But at New Year's eve he claimed to be Suzerain of Earth and eventually even met with Darkseid and gained a boon. So he has the bona fides to "prove" he is Grayven.

It is unclear if Darkseid is aware of his true identity, or if he even cares. The real Grayven from Renegade Earth 16 so far hasn't shown up, only on Earth 51 and Paragon Earth 16, so that doesn't work against him. And even if he does, Grayven could always claim to be a different Grayven from a different Earth. As for the League, it is unclear what exactly they think of him truly, but they have accepted him as Grayven, partially because he explained to Bruce the nature of his "ownership" of Earth and the potential consequences if it got out that he isn't the real Grayven. I imagine Bruce thinks it is a role that Renegade wears to protect the Earth, much like he pretended to join the Light. But others may think he is the true Grayven.


On an unrelated note, I realized we haven't actually seen much of the League's mechanics lately. Is Batman still the chairman or is it keeping the canon rule of rotating chairpersons?

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Given that I read through pretty recently, I can give a bit more comprehensive on Renegade.

He showed up as someone without a soul and an orange ring. He then used the Kobra Venom to become the super strong brute. He looked like Grayven when the Forever People showed up and they called him Grayven. He then took the Father Box from Desaad and used it to do some upgrades on himself while claiming the role of Grayven. One of the main perks being the construction of a soul I believe.

He claimed to be Grayven because he went to Earth Prime where he experienced life there at the cost of his soul, then came to Earth 16.5 or whatever where he reawakened. He displays the powers of a New God, and a vast understanding of what they can do with various knowledge that an outsider shouldn't seemingly possess. The advantage from his SI nature. He also even appears to have some memories of the actual Grayven somehow to the point that for a while he seemed unsure if it was true that he was actually Grayven.

Another point in his identity is that Scott and Barda acknowledged him although admitted it had been a while since they met him. But at New Year's eve he claimed to be Suzerain of Earth and eventually even met with Darkseid and gained a boon. So he has the bona fides to "prove" he is Grayven.

It is unclear if Darkseid is aware of his true identity, or if he even cares. The real Grayven from Renegade Earth 16 so far hasn't shown up, only on Earth 51 and Paragon Earth 16, so that doesn't work against him. And even if he does, Grayven could always claim to be a different Grayven from a different Earth. As for the League, it is unclear what exactly they think of him truly, but they have accepted him as Grayven, partially because he explained to Bruce the nature of his "ownership" of Earth and the potential consequences if it got out that he isn't the real Grayven. I imagine Bruce thinks it is a role that Renegade wears to protect the Earth, much like he pretended to join the Light. But others may think he is the true Grayven.


On an unrelated note, I realized we haven't actually seen much of the League's mechanics lately. Is Batman still the chairman or is it keeping the canon rule of rotating chairpersons?

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I think the citadel contacted 16.5 Grayven briefly and acknowledged him as not an imposter.

 

[Stsword]

It is unclear if Darkseid is aware of his true identity, or if he even cares. The real Grayven from Renegade Earth 16 so far hasn't shown up, only on Earth 51 and Paragon Earth 16, so that doesn't work against him. And even if he does, Grayven could always claim to be a different Grayven from a different Earth. As for the League, it is unclear what exactly they think of him truly, but they have accepted him as Grayven, partially because he explained to Bruce the nature of his "ownership" of Earth and the potential consequences if it got out that he isn't the real Grayven. I imagine Bruce thinks it is a role that Renegade wears to protect the Earth, much like he pretended to join the Light. But others may think he is the true Grayven.

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I've long had the theory that Gravy didn't fool Fatherbox, and I remember seeing something that implied I was actually right in the story. I just don't remember what it was at the moment.

Renegade wouldn't have the right DNA, being a different species. He would have antibodies to diseases that the actual Grayven would have never gotten, being an alien raised on a different planet. Renegade would have the wrong trace elements in his body. His teeth wouldn't have been the same.

Hell, when the actual Grayven showed up, Gravy revealed their faces weren't the same. So Renegade's lie wouldn't even have stood up to a facial recognition test.

Gravy's lie would've been revealed by Batman playing CSI in his batcave, much less against a sapient computer whose database and scanning ability are in some ways seemingly superior to a Maltusian power ring.

 

[Radix]

I've long had the theory that Gravy didn't fool Fatherbox, and I remember seeing something that implied I was actually right in the story. I just don't remember what it was at the moment.

Renegade wouldn't have the right DNA, being a different species. He would have antibodies to diseases that the actual Grayven would have never gotten, being an alien raised on a different planet. Renegade would have the wrong trace elements in his body. His teeth wouldn't have been the same.

Hell, when the actual Grayven showed up, Gravy revealed their faces weren't the same. So Renegade's lie wouldn't even have stood up to a facial recognition test.

Gravy's lie would've been revealed by Batman playing CSI in his batcave, much less against a sapient computer whose database and scanning ability are in some ways seemingly superior to a Maltusian power ring.

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He literally is able to reshape his body. Not to mention the fact that he allegedly had the soul ripped out of his body.

Plus New Gods can pass as human, Darkseid got reincarnated himself in Final Crisis.

 

[Stsword]

He literally is able to reshape his body. Not to mention the fact that he allegedly had the soul ripped out of his body.

Plus New Gods can pass as human, Darkseid got reincarnated himself in Final Crisis.

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No, he possessed Dan Turpin's body and then had New God technology alter it.

A possession which would be literally impossible becuase the universe supposedly destroyed his soul, remember?

So again, we're back to it making no sense whatsoever for Fatherbox to have believed him beyond the single nanosecond it would have taken for it to scan him and check.

 

[Darko]

FatherBox may not have believed him but still chose to follow him since he was strong.

This seems to be an Apokoliptian thing.

And the Grayven in this story is actually partially human, what with Mortalla, his mother in this story, being a human kidnapped and altered by Desaad.

 

[Stsword]

FatherBox may not have believed him but still chose to follow him since he was strong.

This seems to be an Apokoliptian thing.

And the Grayven in this story is actually partially human, what with Mortalla, his mother in this story, being a human kidnapped and altered by Desaad.

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That makes Mortalla a former human, not Grayven a half-human hybrid, unless Zoat actually changed things to add to No Biochemical Barriers, a trope he doesn't seem to like.

He made kryptonians genetically incompatible with humans despite all the stories that's not the case. He made Blaze a 100% biologically human with a soul made up of demonic magic instead of a half human half demon hybrid. He wasn't even comfortable making Superboy transgenic instead of chimerical even though the latter option makes less sense. He made royal Almeracian powers genetic engineering and not interplanetary eugenics despite the entire point of Maxima coming to Earth being finding a mate who could give her children extra superpowers.

And until post flashpoint, you know, the comics that don't exist according to Zoat, New Gods and humans were not genetically compatible.

Weird in a setting in which Lobo has a half Durlan son, but it was explicitly stated in Mr Miracle's series that he and his human wife couldn't have kids because she was human and Scott wasn't.

So if Zoat did make human New God hybrids biologically possible like Grail of post-flashpoint continuity, that's one of the handful of things he's taken from it over the years for this story.

So I would be surprised. It's certainly not impossible, but it would be surprising.

 

[Mors]

He claimed to be Grayven because he went to Earth Prime where he experienced life there at the cost of his soul, then came to Earth 16.5 or whatever where he reawakened. He displays the powers of a New God, and a vast understanding of what they can do with various knowledge that an outsider shouldn't seemingly possess. The advantage from his SI nature. He also even appears to have some memories of the actual Grayven somehow to the point that for a while he seemed unsure if it was true that he was actually Grayven.

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Wait, I know I missed a few chapters in the course of the story but when the hell did the earth prime thing happen? Which episode?

 

[Darko]

That makes Mortalla a former human, not Grayven a half-human hybrid, unless Zoat actually changed things to add to No Biochemical Barriers, a trope he doesn't seem to like.

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Grayven is probably at least partially human.

And Zoat has used that trope, like in this episode with Raul and Komand'r.

It's been stated that if they use magic or tech then humans can breed with aliens.

It wouldn't be that shocking if Desaad altered Mortalla to be able to have New God offspring.

Wait, I know I missed a few chapters in the course of the story but when the hell did the earth prime thing happen? Which episode?

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Just to be clear were not talking about the Prime Earth from the n52, but rather Earth Prime or Prime Earth is basically what the versions of Paul call their original world.

I don't remember when it was first mentioned but I do remember that it was.

Also I think Darkseid said something about Grayven taking a sojourn into the Bleed.

 

[Mr Zoat]

24th January 2006
08:15 GMT -5

Komand'r glares at me, though given her current mood swings it's a lot less intimidating than it used to be.

"Why not?!"

"Komand'r, love of my life, mother of my children-."

She folds her arms across her chest and looks away.

"Child. You get one. I watched those videos and I'm not going through that more than once."

"We don't know how many you're having this time."

The corners of her mouth turn downwards, and her eyes widen as her head slowly turns back towards me.

"That's wonderful-."

She blinks, grimaces, then flies over to a nearby asteroid, which she viciously headbutts! The asteroid explodes, flying out across the void, a small number of fragments entering Zamaron's atmosphere below us.

That-. That's probably not going to reach the ground.

"Gah! Stupid rock!"

"Komand'r, stop trying to injure yourself. High stress levels are bad for the baby."

Her hands go to her abdomen and for a second her face is a picture of horror. Then she jerks her hands to her side and glares at me again.

"No taking advantage of my baby brain!"

"I'm not going to hit you whenever you start being nice to people."

"You're being stupid." She rolls her eyes. "I know you're not strong enough to actually hurt me with your fist. You can use that electric rod thing you used in Polokistan."

"I'm not going to-."

"Why not? You used it on me before."

Our one foray into bondage. It doesn't really work when one party is as tough as she is and the psychology is different when that party used to be an actual slave.

"Komand'r, it only lasts a couple of months. Then you'll be back to normal."

"But what if I've lost my edge by then?!"

I float over to her, taking her hands in mine.

"Komand'r, you have achieved a level of spitefulness which surpasses every Tamaranean before you. I assure you: you have more than enough bitchiness to get through this with your character intact."

"You're being so nice about-."

Her face twitches, then she raises her right fist and-.

I wrap a construct manacle around her right forearm and pull it away with construct chains before she can follow through on her initial impulse to punch herself in the head.

"N-."

And then I grab her left forearm with another manacle.

"No. Komand'r, stop."

She tries pulling against them for a moment, but while she can make progress she can't make her arms move anything like fast enough to hit herself. After a moment she realises that too and sags in her bonds.

I float closer so that our heads are level. She's looking down, avoiding my eyes. I reach out with my right hand and gently tilt her head back up, meeting my concerned gaze with an expression of tiredness. She looks wrung out, actually. It's a surprising moment of honesty; she usually hates showing weakness like this.

"Komand'r, talk to me."

"'m scared."

"Okay. What about?"

"You make me feel… Things. And that's… Okay. I didn't… I didn't like it to start with, but it's-. It's fine. But now my own body's doing it without you even being there. I've liked people before so liking you more isn't that big a deal but this is-. I don't like everyone. It's like there's this alien thing in me that's changing who I am. It's like the-."

She squirms.

"It's like the Gordanians."

Ahh…

Komand'r… Hasn't wanted to talk about exactly what happened while she and her sister were slaves. And since we burned their civilisation to the ground I didn't think it was worth pressing her over; violence is a great healer.

It seems I was mistaken. That… Or we didn't kill quite enough, I suppose.

"There might be a way to stop it. Some sort of hormone regulating impl-."

"There isn't. And if there ever was it was one of the things that we lost when Tamaran got burned."

A red ring… Might work. She'd certainly end up getting all of her anger back. But I'm not sure what the ritual would do to the foetus. The other alternative…

"Do you not want to have this child?"

She rolls her eyes. "It's a bit late-." She blinks as I raise my eyebrows. "Oh. No, no, I don't-. That's not-. No."

"Okay. I want to have children with you. Do-."

"And I want to have children with you!"

She blinks, her hands coming up to cover her mouth and her eyes giving the impression that she hadn't intended to say that.

"Was that you or the hormones?"

"Iiiiiiiii think it was me."

Hm.

"Look, you know this isn't like what the Gordanians did, because unsettling though it is it's something that every Tamaranean mother has gone through at least once. I'm sure that you'll rise to this challenge as you have every other. Or are you going to keep whining about it like a little bitch who doesn't know what she wants?"

Her eyes glow.

"I'll show you who's a bitch."

Glowing red horns appear on my forehead.

"I'm not as fragile as I used to be."

"Um."

We both turn, and see the small crowd of Zamarons gathered to watch us.

"We were going to castigate you about the meteorite. But this looks far more interesting."

 

[Idkusername]

Raul: Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself!

Komand'r: No!

Edit: Oh, do go on, the Zamorons won't mind if you engage in hot kinky sex in front of them, though the mods might.

 

[hance1986]

A healthy airing out of relationship issues.

 

[Vaermina]

I've long had the theory that Gravy didn't fool Fatherbox, and I remember seeing something that implied I was actually right in the story. I just don't remember what it was at the moment.

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Was it when he found out Fatherbox had been secretly reporting everything back to Darkseid?