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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

I suspect that it wouldn't occur to him that a tree could be so important.

I don't know how well DNA survives in wood. Maybe? Though if there was a magic component that might not work.
Easy enough problem to resolve.

Show the physical biological data to the elf mages, (like one Anurion The Green) and they'd likely fill in the gaps by applying the ol' "As Above, So Below" method, figuring out what kind of Magicks would fit it to create Starwood.
 
Ok let me say that the myths i was Talking about was DC lore not real world demigods who all that are shown have certain powers standard to the template like most have a basic Brick package (cassie, jason, donna, Hippolyta, Astarte,etc)
tie to a domain that they may or may not learn to use

Well then you don't know your DC lore. Queen Hippolyta is the daughter of Ares and the powers DC gave her beyond what every Amazon gets is nothing.

And since we were very obviously discussing the comic book, if you think we were discussing Earth-16 Diana than you were wasting everyone's time.
 
Veganism (part 11)
1st September 2012
15:36 GMT


When do Amazons peak?

They've been on that island for three thousand years, but is there a point where they just… Get as good at something as they can get? Orana is considered to be a mistress of the bow even by her fellow Amazons, but she isn't much better than, say, Oliver Queen… Pre-Awakening in both cases, I've got no idea how they stack up now.

Diana's arms move across her torso, bracers blocking a volley of shots from her aunt's forearm-mounted gun. Astarte doesn't appear to be using her divine abilities to enhance it, so I'm assuming that she's just trying to get more of a feeling for Diana's abilities. A moment later Diana flicks the noose of her lasso at Astarte, who sidesteps and bats at it with the mega rod.

Diana's in her late eighties. Astarte is early in her fourth millennium, and unlike the women back home has actually spent that time fighting people who were trying to kill her with the full range of weapons available to advanced civilisations. Plus, she's a war demigoddess rather than whatever Diana is trying to pretend she's not. Everything about that says to me that this should be an Astarte beat down.

Diana ducks and drops, flying across the deck to get under Astarte's guard. Astarte tumbles sideways, swinging the rod at the point Diana will be passing through. But Diana blocks it with her left bracer and reaches for the haft with her right hand.

Wait, that's not-.

I can just about see her wince as she discovers that while the head is the most dangerous part, the haft isn't safe for non-owners. Astarte manages to apply her boot to Diana's face, but Diana just rolls in the air with the hit, her own feet striking Astarte hard in the tits and sending her flying backwards.

She shoots as she goes, and Diana takes a hit to her armour as her arms are out of position to block it.
Feel My Wrath!
These shots look a little more solid than the probing shots from earlier, which I suppose is intentional. She takes a hit, she's going to want to retaliate at full power rather than risk looking weak before her people, even for a moment.

"Mm."

I glance at Theana.

"Comments? Questions?"

"I was worried that she'd be weak."

"Good news: she's not. If you're interested, I can give you a tally of her victories."

"It doesn't change anything."

"It changes what you think of her. It might help you understand-"

Astarte tries to soak a hit to get into grappling distance but that's the Strength of Gaea! Astarte actually falls on her arse, blinking as she tries to clear her head.

"-why she's doing this."

Theana doesn't look particularly perturbed by her mother's setback -Astarte gets back on her feet as Diana takes the opportunity to try talking to her- but she is focusing on it rather than me.

"It doesn't matter. Strength is strength."

"Alright, if you're not interested in learning from me, would you mind explaining a few things for me?"

"What is there to say? We're the Citizenry, the strongest, fiercest and most ruthless."

"Then why are you working for the other Grayven? You're clearly a bunch of psychotic misandrists, and he's an unapologetic man. And his followers are gordanians, and their military is mostly male. What's going on there?"

"Mother wants another daughter. There's no point in trying to breed with a weak breeder."

Diana's a little slow on a dodge and her aunt rips a chunk of hair from her head.

"I don't really see the appeal, but I suppose it doesn't really cost him anything."

I haven't felt any sort of divine imprint from him on her, nothing that would let him control her. So what's the plan from his end? Extra troops are nice, but if they're just going to turn on you then you're setting yourself up to fail. So either they're supposed to be a first wave which can die down to a level where he can incorporate them in his other forces without worrying too much, or-.

Or he was going to remove Astarte anyway, and his choice of replacement is somewhere around here. His own daughter by her?

"And then what?"

"Once the girl is born, if she passes the trials, then we will kill the Apokoliptian and his lizards."

"That'd be a trick. I doubt that shooting him with his own Omega Effect would do it."

"Why not?"

"It's a New God thing. The fact that he's able to use it indicates that he's internalised its lessons. He's mastered it. Shooting him with it would be like injecting you with your own blood."

"We've followed my mother for nearly three thousand years. We have more than one way to kill a god."

"Then… What? Back to the same old same old?"

"We fight, we kill. What more is there?"

"Everything. Reliable food supplies raised by your own hand. An opportunity to live without constantly worrying whether you're seen as fierce enough to survive another day. An opportunity to develop yourself in ways not associated with warfare." Let Our Majesty Humble the Barbarian.

"We have reliable food now."
Dimly I feel it as Artemis moves through the Provider holding pen.
"Do you? I suppose if you like the taste of snake, but wouldn't you like to try something else every so often? Or just have the option to do so? Why make the universe kneel if you can't use it as a footstool? What's the point of fighting and winning if you don't benefit from-"

Diana gets her noose around Astarte's right forearm and pulls, dragging her aunt across the arena floor while shouting something.

"-it?"

"There are two of us, and only one plate of food."

"Then surely making sure that there's more food is the way to go? I mean, even conquering a few worlds and making them farm for you would result in a more reliable food supply than what you're doing now."

"It means more if you have to work for it."

"Yes, but does 'work' have to mean 'drop off snake, stand well back'? Wouldn't it be more rewarding work to grow crops and raise animals yourself? I mean, a halfwit child could press a button, but farm labour takes-."

"There's no point in fighting the weak."

"So who do you fight?"

"The strongest. The ones they think have what it takes to be Citizens."

"Do they actually have to beat you, or..?"

"No. Just survive. A few manage to wound me. None beat me."

"Oh?" I look her over. Okay, kryptonians aren't the rule or anything, but I don't really see what's so scary. "Hey, are you actually going to accept Diana's rule if she wins?"

I glance at the centre of the arena, where Astarte's lost her gun and just took a left cross to the face. Yeah, Diana's got that. From the sounds of things, she's got that due to actually fighting people in her weight class rather than being massively overpowered compared to everyone around her.

"Of course not."

"Then…" I draw my new daiklave. "Why wait?"
 
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Yep. Diana is half titan and half god and living on a deathworld where her aunt is basically a bully. She outclasses her Aunt badly.

I'm wondering what the hell Diana's divine nature is in this universe.

I mean Diane has a lot less experience than her. Thousands of year of combat even if the skill gain is less than what Diane goes through adds up.
 
A smattering of godspeech tonight.

"Everything. Reliable food supplies raised by your own hand. An opportunity to live without constantly worrying whether you're seen as fierce enough to survive another day. An opportunity to develop yourself in ways not associated with warfare." Let Our Majesty Humble the Barbarian.

"We have reliable food now."
Dimly I feel it as Artemis moves through the Provider holding pen.
"Do you? I suppose if you like the taste of snake, but wouldn't you like to try something else every so often? Or just have the option to do so? Why make the universe kneel if you can't use it as a footstool? What's the point of fighting and winning if you don't benefit from-"
 
I mean Diane has a lot less experience than her. Thousands of year of combat even if the skill gain is less than what Diane goes through adds up.

We've seen that Titans are a rough beat for the actual gods not demi gods. And Astarte has been functionally killing slimes where Diana is regularly sparring with full Kryptonians and fighting things on the order of Elder Gods.
 
Gotta love their bragging about being strong when their entire MO seems to be to find worlds that have no way of actually fighting back against them, and from the sound of things actively avoiding worlds that could put up a fight, only to drop a shitload of snakes that do just about everything for them.
 
Yep. Diana is half titan and half god and living on a deathworld where her aunt is basically a bully. She outclasses her Aunt badly.

I'm wondering what the hell Diana's divine nature is in this universe.
I think this has come up before and the answer is either Truth or Justice.
 
1st September 2012
15:36 GMT


When do Amazons peak?

They're been on that island for three thousand years, but is there a point where they just… Get as good at something as they can get? Orana is considered to be a mistress of the bow even by her fellow Amazons, but she isn't much better than, say, Oliver Queen… Pre-Awakening in both cases, I've got no idea how they stack up now.
In that situation, it's largely a matter of how they're using their God-gifts. Presumably, Ollie aims for non-lethal wounds - trick shots like pinning someone to a wall, or putting a gimmick arrow right where it has to be - while Orana no doubt favours a more lethal level of accuracy - putting broad-head shafts into a weapon hand or a foot, or straight-out killshots with a narrow or barbed tip. No doubt both are getting plenty of Mana input...

Diana's arms move across her torso, bracers blocking a volley of shots from her aunt's forearm-mounted gun. Astarte doesn't appear to be using her divine abilities to enhance it, so I'm assuming that she's just trying to get more of a feeling for Diana's abilities. A moment later Diana flicks the noose of her lasso at Astarte, who sidesteps and bats at it with the mega rod.

Diana's in her late eighties. Astarte is early in her fourth millennium, and unlike the women back home has actually spent that time fighting people who were trying to kill her with the full range of weapons available to advanced civilisations. Plus, she a war demigoddess rather than whatever Diana is trying to pretend she's not. Every thing about that says to me that this should be an Astarte beat down.
But... Consider their regular opponents. To put it in MMO terms: Astarte has been the max-level character wandering lowbie zones PvPing beginners, while Diana actually runs end-game content and knows her build and gear inside out, down the the second of power cooldown rotations. Which has been challenging herself to improve, hmm?

Diana ducks and drops, flying across the deck to get under Astarte's guard. Astarte tumbles sideways, swinging the rod at the point Diana will be passing through. But Diana blocks it with her left bracer and reaches for the haft with her right hand.

Wait, that's not-.
Yeah, I don't see that working. New God weapons aren't polite about being handled by anything other than their masters. I mean, the Renegade's Daiklave probably never leaves his grasp if he can help it... But imagine what it might do to someone trying to take it from his hand?

I can just about see her wince as she discovers that while the head is the most dangerous part, the haft isn't safe for non-owners. Astarte manages to apply her boot to Diana's face, but Diana just rolls in the air with the hit, her own feet striking Astarte hard in the tits and sending her flying backwards.

She shoots as she goes, and Diana takes a hit to her armour as her arms are out of position to block it.
The one problem with Diana's style: She relies on her lasso for ranged attacks. No guns, no spears, no bow or sling... If a foe can maintain distance, or tie her down and bombard her from afar with others, she has few options besides playing 'bullets and bracelets' until she can get airborne...

Feel My Wrath!
These shots look a little more solid than the probing shots from earlier, which I suppose is intentional. She takes a hit, she's going to want to retaliate at full power rather than risk looking weak before her people, even for a moment.
And she's probably getting a little annoyed that Diana's not folding after one hit like some of her opponents might. I mean, not every member of the Commanders' circle can be as powerful as her, after all.

"Mm."

I glance at Theana.
:confused: ...Oh, boy. Was that a dismissive 'hmm' or a lustful 'yum'. Because I can just see her associating violence with other things...

"Comments? Questions?"

"I was worried that she'd be weak."
Probably feel insulted if a member of her family was weak...

"Good news: she's not. If you're interested, I can give you a tally of her victories."

"It doesn't change anything."
Given that Theana would never have heard of most, if not any, of the names the Renegade could list, I'm not surprised.

"If changes what you think of her. It might help you understand-"

Astarte tries to soak a hit to get into grappling distance but that's the Strength of Gaea! Astarte actually falls on her arse, blinking as she tries to clear her head.
:p 'Strength of Gaea' basically translating into 'hits like a rockslide'? Good to see Diana not holding back now...

"-why she's doing this."

Theana doesn't look particularly perturbed by her mother's setback -Astarte gets back on her feet as Diana takes the opportunity to try talking to her- but she is focusing on it rather than me.
...Or not. Diana, this is far past any kind of diplomatic solution...

"It doesn't matter. Strength is strength."

"Alright, if you're not interested in learning from me, would you mind explains a few things for me?"
Just for the Codex, you know. Got to find all that Lore, after all.

"What is there to say? We're the Citizenry, the strongest, fiercest and most ruthless."

"Then why are you working for the other Grayven? You've clearly a bunch of psychotic misandrists, and he's an unapologetic man. And his followers are gordanians, and their military is mostly male. What's going on there?"
While putting it rather rudely, even to her, he has a point. Though I wonder how much of that misandry is due to Astarte's leadership?

"Mother wants another daughter. There's no point in trying to breed with a weak breeder."

Diana's a little slow on a dodge and her aunt rips a chunk of hair from her head.
Ow. Should have tied it back, Diana. Unless that was tied back, in which case, double OW. Hope the Renegade can apply a little cosmetic repairs later, assuming it doesn't grow back rapidly...

"I don't really see the appeal, but I suppose it doesn't really cost him anything."

I haven't felt any sort of divine imprint from him on her, nothing that would let him control her. So what's the plan from his end? Extra troops are nice, but if they're just going to turn on you then you're setting yourself up to fail. So either they're supposed to be a first wave which can die down to a level where he can incorporate them in his other forces without worrying too much, or-.
If he plans to integrate them at all. Maybe he's watching to see what you do with them: Extinction or subjugation? That would tell him much of your form of Conquest.

Or he was going to remove Astarte anyway, and his choice of replacement is somewhere around here. His own daughter by her?

"And then what?"

"Once the girl is born, if she passes the trials, then we will kill the Apokoliptian and his lizards."
Bit of a risk. They're clearly overconfident, aren't they? But Hubris has its own drawbacks, though.

"That'd be a trick. I doubt that shooting him with his own Omega Effect would do it."

"Why not?"

"It's a New God thing. The fact that he's able to use it indicates that he's internalised its lessons. He's mastered it. Shooting him with it would be like injecting you with your own blood."
Or trying to set a fire elemental on fire. With non-magical fire, at least. I've seen at least one case where the nominal hero of the story does beat a fire creature with magically-charged fire... 'Bastard!', if you're curious.

"We've followed my mother for nearly three thousand years. We have more than one way to kill a god."

"Then… What? Back to the same old same old?"
Trundling through the galaxy, extinctifying whole worlds' animal life to feed yourselves porridge? Some life.

"We fight, we kill. What more is there?"

"Everything. Reliable food supplies raised by your own hand. An opportunity to live without constantly worrying whether you're seen as fierce enough to survive another day. An opportunity to develop yourself in ways not associated with warfare." Let Our Majesty Humble the Barbarian.
The problem being, do any of them want that? Do any of them have any desire to be more than a roving murderhobo, any aspiration to be greater than their upbringing? :( ...Actually, given said upbringing, those kind of thoughts either get you killed young or are beaten out by the time you come of age...

"We have reliable food now."
Dimly I feel it as Artemis moves through the Provider holding pen.
"Do you? I suppose if you like the taste of snake, but wouldn't you like to try something else every so often? Or just have the option to do so? Why make the universe kneel if you can't use it as a footstool? What's the point of fighting and winning if you don't benefit from-"
Heh. If the Renegade gets his way, they'll have to change, I see. One way or the other. Giving them a choice of the mailed fist, or the spiked boot. :p Since they've rejected anything nicer.

Diana gets her noose around Astarte's right forearm and pulls, dragging her aunt across the arena floor while shouting something.

"-it?"

"There are two of us, and only one plate of food."
And clearly you're incapable of thinking to share that food. And think that analogy is enough to explain everything... Clever as a brick in a sock.

"Then surely making sure that there's more food is the way to go? I mean, even conquering a few worlds and making them farm for you would result in a more reliable food supply than what you're doing now."

"It means more if you have to work for it."
'Ravaging a world form orbit using magic snakes' is not work. Even going down there and beating what you want out of the population is not work.

"Yes, but does 'work' have to mean 'drop off snake, stand well back'? Wouldn't it be more rewarding work to grow crops and raise animals yourself? I mean, a halfwit child could press a button, but farm labour takes-."

"There's no point in fighting the weak."
Well, at least they have some concept of honour. Pity that just means they exterminate the weak dishonourably...

"So who do you fight?"

"The strongest. The ones they think have what it takes to be Citizens."
That would be impressive, given that there didn't seem to be much in the way of survivors. Or do weak worlds like the last couple not get the offer?

"Do they actually have to beat you, or..?"

"No. Just survive. A few manage to wound me. None beat me."
Gee, some test. I'm almost reminded of Adeptus Astartes recruitment practices from Warhammer 40k. Picking young warriors from feral worlds who show promise by being big, mean bastards... If that's their general kind of recruit, no wonder they're such stupid cunts...

"Oh?" I look her over. Okay, kryptonians aren't the rule or anything, but I don't really see what's so scary. "Hey, are you actually going to accept Diana's rule if she wins?"

I glance at the centre of the arena, where Astarte's lost her gun and just took a left cross to the face. Yeah, Diana's got that. From the sounds of things, she's got that due to actually fighting people in her weight class rather than being massively overpowered compared to everyone around her.
Yup. The benefit of challenging yourself in battle. I Hope Astarte's learning a good lesson from this...

"Of course not."

"Then…" I draw my new daiklave "Why wait?"
Ah, heading off the inevitable betrayal at the pass, eh? I have the feeling Theana would declare a challenge literally as soon as her mother conceded defeat. While Diana's still exhausted. Some honour there, huh?

Well, then. Looks like the Citizenry will be having to deal with a bit of change soon, eh? Whether they accept the new leadership (and just carry on as they have been as soon as she's not looking) or the Renegade takes drastic measures to correct that behaviour, things are going to be very interesting in the next couple of chapters...

Some incidental Godspeech:
She shoots as she goes, and Diana takes a hit to her armour as her arms are out of position to block it.
Feel My Wrath!
These shots look a little more solid than the probing shots from earlier, which I suppose is intentional. She takes a hit, she's going to want to retaliate at full power rather than risk looking weak before her people, even for a moment.

"Everything. Reliable food supplies raised by your own hand. An opportunity to live without constantly worrying whether you're seen as fierce enough to survive another day. An opportunity to develop yourself in ways not associated with warfare." Let Our Majesty Humble the Barbarian.

"We have reliable food now."
Dimly I feel it as Artemis moves through the Provider holding pen.
"Do you? I suppose if you like the taste of snake, but wouldn't you like to try something else every so often? Or just have the option to do so? Why make the universe kneel if you can't use it as a footstool? What's the point of fighting and winning if you don't benefit from-"

Mr Zoat, some corrections:
They're been on that island for three thousand years...
They've been on that island for three thousand years...
"If changes what you think of her.
Not sure of the intent here. Perhaps 'It changes' or 'If it changes'?
...would you mind explains a few things for me?
...would you mind explaining a few things for me?
You've clearly a bunch of psychotic misandrists...
You're clearly a bunch of psychotic misandrists...
There's no point in trying to breed with a weak breeder.
Double Space.
 
Like I said, stupid evil.

Just kill them and be done with it, Grayven. If anything, this should be an object lesson.

I can delight in pragmatic evil, tolerate banal evil and understand an excess of evil. But stupid evil? Chuck it into the sun.
I find stupid evil hilarious, but that just means that I would chuckle as I removed them if I had the power to do so.
 
Honestly, I think the biggest thing that bothers me about the Citizenry isn't so much the stupid evil, so much as how lazy they are about it. There is no drive to improve beyond just beating their chests between kicking the civilization equivalent of toddlers into the dirt.

Around and around they go, knocking things over but never actually building anything. They're even worse than the Wraith! The ones from Stargate Atlantis, where maybe 5 of them ever showed any sort of personal initiative, drive to be more or ambition to create. I think like 2 out of those 5 characters were human hybrids anyways.

Part of why I genuinely like Grayven so much is the desire to build. His story is like a 4X game I can read and I genuinely adore that.

Anyways I'm just ranting. Take what can be useful and chuck the rest of it into a star. The Citizenry don't even deserve the graveyard they leave the planets of their victims as remembrance. For that extra bit of spice, absorb the area, repopulate it. In a century make it so it was like they never existed at all.

At least 4000 years of history and this is the grand sum of their ambitions? Pathetic.
 
They've been on that island for three thousand years...

Not sure of the intent here. Perhaps 'It changes' or 'If it changes'?

...would you mind explaining a few things for me?

You're clearly a bunch of psychotic misandrists...

Double Space.
Thank you, corrected.
" We are superstrong bestest because we drop snakes on defenseless worlds!"

"What if someone beats you by your own rules?"

"Then we cheat!"

Yeah, just kill them and be done with it.
Now now, it's unfair to judge an entire civilisation by the behaviour of their rulers.

Unless they're a democracy, then it's clearly the peoples' fault.
 
I glance at the centre of the arena, where Astarte's lost her gun and just took a left cross to the face. Yeah, Diana's got that. From the sounds of things, she's got that due to actually fighting people in her weight class rather than being massively overpowered compared to everyone around her.

"Of course not."
And thus the issue with all these Rule Of The Strong groups: They're all cowards and hypocrites.

Can anyone think of a setting/faction where one of these actually stuck to their principles once the shoe was on the other foot? They talk a big game while they're on top, standing around patting themselves on the back for being powerful and fierce while slaughtering a bunch of mooks. But they always change their tune when someone stronger puts them in their place.
 
...that sure is a bunch of ranting from a group of people who should know, better than most, just why 'comic book villain' is both a cliché and an insult.

Edit:
Can anyone think of a setting/faction where one of these actually stuck to their principles once the shoe was on the other foot?
Chronicles of Riddick spring to mind.
 
I was wondering, since Astarte apparently can fly now, exactly why she can do so. I believe in the comics Diana's speed was originally a blessing from Hermes, either on her or her shoes, and it's just become part of her powerset now, but she's not a standard demigoddess of war. Cassandra Sandsmark's flight makes sense too, for a daughter of the Sky God (and yeah Astarte is technically Zeus's granddaughter, but it still doesn't seem to fit her mo).

I'd have thought Renegade Diana and Barda would have sparred a lot, and the former would be familiar with how mega rods function to avoid trying to grasp it by the handle. The fight's a bit of let-down after Astarte's introduction in the story, but I guess things will start picking up once Renegade and Artemis begin their attack.

Does the Citizenry not have cloning technology? I would imagine they could just set up something similar to vatborn Dark Eldar in 40k, only all women. Unless the tradition was ingrained before they technologically advanced enough (although, what is the canonical origin of the Citizenry? They existed long before Astarte joined them, right?). Do we know who Theana's father was? I assume he'd have to be quite strong to be eligible as a breeding partner in the first place, but unless it was a New God or something I feel like Theana would be inferior to her mother thanks to her divine heritage being more distant.

Do they go on these murder-binges through Green Lantern Corps patrolled space? Besides the Omega Gun (which should be a relatively recent tool in their arsenal) and Astarte herself, I feel like a task force could take them on, and I can't imagine they had many allies before the one with Renegade. Or are they just really stealthy in addition to being strawwomen misandrist Amazons who also apparently have advanced technological capabilities? (things about them still don't click well for me, clearly).

Even if Paragon forgot the name of the Citizenry, I think he'd have made a token effort to track down 'nomadic spacefaring marauding cannibal women', given the direct and indirect access to information databases he has.
 
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I was wondering, since Astarte apparently can fly now, exactly why she can do so. I believe in the comics Diana's speed was originally a blessing from Hermes, either on her or her shoes, and it's just become part of her powerset now, but she's not a standard demigoddess of war. Cassandra Sandsmark's flight makes sense too, for a daughter of the Sky God (and yeah Astarte is technically Zeus's granddaughter, but it still doesn't seem to fit her mo).
It was explained that Astarte has some sort of levitation technology. It's not an innate ability like Diana's.

Even if Paragon forgot the name of the Citizenry, I think he'd have made a token effort to track down 'nomadic spacefaring marauding cannibal women', given the direct and indirect access to information databases he has.
Paul knows about them by name. He just considers them a low priority. It's entirely possible that we'll never see them in the Paragon timeline.
 
Why did Diana and Grayven let Astarte keep Barda's mega-rod? Not only did they give her an extra weapon they risk Barda boom tubing in and killing as many Citizitens as it takes to get it back.
 
Why did Diana and Grayven let Astarte keep Barda's mega-rod?
Because it's currently hers via god-powers enforced Spoils of War rules. Simply taking it back won't work, as Diana discovered when she made a grab for it during the fight.



War Prize.

Astarte lowers her gun and holds out her right hand, Barda's mega rod flying into it. "A respectable display. You will be permitted to take part in the trials. Though if you don't-"

She kicks Barda in the chest, sending her flying twelve metres before Barda lands and rolls bonelessly to a halt. Yes, her chestplate barely even survived that.

"-recover, your participation will be short."
 

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