With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

Reference?

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It's a reference to Queen Hyathis.

Apparently in the past the Thanagarians were infected with a disease that destroyed their personalities and were underthe control of an alien despot.

Hyanthis killed the despot and cured the Thanagarians in exchange for them making her their leader.

When she left they rebelled and killed those of her people and any loyal Thanagarians on their planet.

 

[Ngamer11]

Reference?

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Paul talked about this in a lecture to his teammates in Episode 82: Wing and Dagger.

 

[Michael Vonica]

Electrify till it explodes and Crumble it!

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I thought the same. But both of those methods involve putting some form of energy into the statue, and that will always have the risk of feeding it.

 

[Tzeentch]

While I know that YJ canon doesn't much apply to With This Ring, I wonder if Klarion being able to easily time travel might be featured, and could be used to explain how he seemed to have lived thousands of years before he was even born on Witch World, when apparently he just made a few trips across History when he felt like it.

One has to wonder if the currently missing Lord John Constantine is using the same power in conjunction with Synchronicity Wave Travelling, taking him to specific places in space and time where he NEEDS to cause some trouble....

 

[Coda]

the thanagarian's 'precautionary measures'.

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Unless it's the measures of a single thanagarian that's acting outside of standard protocols, thanagarians'

I'm not sure if that term existed in 2012.

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It was coined in 2008 and popularized in 2010.

"When I was… In primary school? I read a science fiction book. In the opening chapter the main character was in a space flight simulator. His ship flew too close to a black hole and he had to get free. He performed the manoeuvre correctly and left the scenario, expecting his teacher to congratulate him on his skill. Instead he got a D, because he wasn't supposed to get that close to the black hole in the first place."

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What book was this?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Unless it's the measures of a single thanagarian that's acting outside of standard protocols, thanagarians'

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Thank you, corrected.

It was coined in 2008 and popularized in 2010.

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But while the 'when a man and a woman' thing was mansplaining as a joke, him saying 'Onimar Synn' wasn't.

What book was this?

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I don't remember. It was a very long time ago.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Mr Zoat, I was rereading and found a broken picture.

The one linked to Granny doesn't work, but the one linked to Goodness does. I assume the first link is to a picture of a young Goodness?

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Doccer]

It's a reference to Queen Hyathis.

Apparently in the past the Thanagarians were infected with a disease that destroyed their personalities and were underthe control of an alien despot.

Hyanthis killed the despot and cured the Thanagarians in exchange for them making her their leader.

When she left they rebelled and killed those of her people and any loyal Thanagarians on their planet.

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I looked on her fandom page. It says her alignment is bad.
Was she canonically a good ruler or evil one? Like, did she deserve to be back stabbed?

 

[Stsword]

I looked on her fandom page. It says her alignment is bad.
Was she canonically a good ruler or evil one? Like, did she deserve to be back stabbed?

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In the comics, she was a warmonger out to conquer more territory, including attacking Rann.

I suspect the comics didn't go into much detail on how prosperous her subjects were, those not put into the meat grinder so she could expand her dominion anyway.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

Just something that recently came up.

Remember back when OL and his Gun Range Pal got talking about their new civilian coil gun?

Spoiler: Not Quite There Yet, But Getting Closer!

Notibly you don't see any significant recoil because the muzzle energy is about on par with a .22, and the gun itself weighs about 20 pounds.

 

[Mr Zoat]

15th October 2012
17:02 GMT

Krandor Vat winced slightly, twitching his right wing as the muscles responsible for furling it didn't quite respond as they should. He took a moment to reflect that it was fortunate for him that Thanagar never quite adopted the sort of extreme warrior culture that some had called for. Dismissing a senior officer because they were no longer quite the brawler they'd been in their youth would have been the height of wastefulness, and politicians needed a strong arm even less.

If his mind ever weakened-. No. As things stood he'd be dead before that became a problem.

He could have come to Enndupar the moment the crisis was resolved, but… That would have served no purpose. Strong soldiers on patrol and ships in the air would calm and reassure better than a public appearance.

He glanced down at the part of his right wing still in his field of view.

Particularly these days. Besides, there wouldn't have been time for anyone to have learned anything. Far better to give the officers involved time to piece things together so that they could present him with a complete report. No matter how well disciplined, it was good for morale for officers to be allowed to succeed.

An attack by Seven Devil cultists, carried out against a major city. All hands would be raised against them now, Thanagar motivated to carry out a purge such as their forebears had never been able to carry out. No more fools or paupers drawn into their grasp. No matter how indolent or ill-disposed towards their own government, no one would want to align themselves with people who would carry out that sort of attack.

A chime, and he presses the button to allow his senior civil servants access to his office. Not as secure as the office in Thanaldar, but it wasn't as if he was staying for long. He would speak with the garrison commander and home guard captains later, to acknowledge their actions in preventing a catastrophe.

But first, the people who had created it.

Andar Pul comes in first, subtly applied makeup disguising how tired he was. For a moment the High Mor wonders if the man's conscience is keeping him up, but swiftly dismisses the idea. It's far more likely that the effort of ensuring that his agents get to where they are required to be requires constant attention and allows only irregular rest. Darl Klus is second, and seems far more ready for action. With the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps having departed and the Earth end of the operation mostly concluded, he didn't need to put in quite so many hours.

"High Mor." / "High Mor."

"Ambassador. Senior Analyst. Are things going according to plan?"

Pul looks awkward. "Not… Precisely. Most of the senior members of the Cult who aren't under our control are in our custody. Without Paran Dul or a reliable telepath our ability to interrogate them is limited, but our best predictions show that a near-complete cleanup of the cults is now within our grasp. But we underestimated the Darkstar. She may have deduced that things were other than as they appeared."

"What led to the underestimation?"

"Incomplete intelligence. Dul had no opportunity to study their current-generation exo-mantles in detail and only knew their approximate capacities. We prepared for improvements on the known suit types, but between the operative's skills and the exo-mantle's superlative performance that prediction was… Out. It also appears that she nonlethally disabled several of our insiders, who were unable to perform their roles quite as intended."

"Can she prove anything?"

"I don't believe so. But on both occasions the Illustres was quite clear that he is absolutely opposed to the reactivation of the Devils. It… Shouldn't be an issue now, but whether we are successful or not, we should never perform an operation of this type again."

Galling. But he wasn't wrong, and there was no sense in pretending otherwise.

"Ambassador."

"Operative Bleez is getting closer to him, but-."

Krandor Vat makes a dismissive gestures with his right hand. "It doesn't matter. At this point I would gladly let her take our untouchables merely to have them out of our way. Thanagarians should be driven to greatness by aspiration, not fear."

The Ambassador lowers his eyes for a moment in submission. It's not a completely unquestioned viewpoint, but the High Mor is resolute on that point.

"Then her work is going as desired, and it is highly probable that by monitoring her we will get notice of the Illustres's visits. As for our operatives on Earth…" A wing shrug. "They made an approach. The… Forge-God, Hephaestus, wasn't interested."

"Not unexpected. What did they learn?"

"We've known for some time that Earth is… Unusual with regard to magic. Hephaestus admitted that he wasn't sure how the arcane transmutation of Nth metal was possible at all. Some worlds are 'thaumically'-"

A human loan word. The closest equivalent in Quarish would be 'bloody' or 'cursed', and those aren't quite right.

"-active, and others aren't. Most, in fact. Despite being ruled by demons, Thanagar isn't."

"Can it be made so?"

"Not by any technique described in publically available literature. The god said that he didn't think it would be possible. When pressed, he opined that there might be fairly extreme measures that could cause a world to become active, but that he didn't think experimentation would be wise."

Pul looks unsettled. "Thanagar, High Mor?"

"Perhaps. Perhaps not. Thanagar is the centre of our people and culture. It would be easier to impress our nature upon it." Pul ducks his head slightly. "But you are right to consider the potential undesirable consequences. Nothing radical should be done without some measure of confidence that the outcome would be as we want. What worlds in this region are thaumically active?"

Klus shakes his head. "None, High Mor. None inside the Empire or amongst our neighbours. Aside from Alstair and Earth, the closest would be Alavorn."

A touch on a hologram projector and its distance from the borders of the Empire is immediately apparent.

"It would be possible to negotiate the use of part of their world, but with it being effectively impossible for us to annex it-."

"We will not place ourselves at the mercy of aliens, Ambassador." Vat's expression shifted to become even colder than normal. "Alliances of convenience may be considered, but not-. This."

"Yes, High Mor."

There's an awkward… Quiet for a moment, and Vat realised that he'd been too emphatic. Klus was too young to remember living through the Equalisation Plague. It wouldn't have the same significance for him. He wouldn't understand why they couldn't-.

He waves his right hand.

"Continue."

"There was… One other thing. Another.. Forge-God. Vulcan. He works with Hephaestus, but hasn't achieved the same degree of renown. He was apparently extremely interested in the Nth metal samples that Hol and Thal gave him. I doubt that he would be any more eager to come here than his compatriot, but if we needed assistance in piecing together the ritual, their report strongly implies that he would be willing to assist."

"If necessary. I remember that both the Illustres and our operatives have noted that humans are inefficient at taking advantage of the opportunities their technology affords them. Even with the reborn ancient able to instruct them, they've made no efforts to use Nth metal so far. If we must take a risk, I would rather take a risk on Earth than elsewhere. Senior Analyst, what did we learn about countering the Illustres?"

"The subspace interference matrix worked. He himself confirmed that he was unable to access his arsenal. Unfortunately, we weren't able to access it either."

"Why?"

"The physics of the system are beyond me. Some sort of.. locking technique, crystallising the boundary of the subspace pocket. Dul hasn't mentioned it, so I suspect that it's something that someone on Earth taught him. Our efforts to interfere with his constructs came to nothing; he held up the entire city while still remaining combat effective. Other Lanterns seldom go into combat with their weapons stored, so this knowledge would only be applicable during an ambush. A full report will.. take a few days more."

The High Mor nods. "We are close. So close, now. Continue with your work, and let me know the moment that this 'Vulcan' makes any progress."

"Thanagar soars."

 

[Vaermina]

"The physics of the system are beyond me. Some sort of.. locking technique, crystallising the boundary of the subspace pocket. Dul hasn't mentioned it, so I suspect that it's something that someone on Earth taught him. Our efforts to interfere with his constructs came to nothing; he held up the entire city while still remaining combat effective. Other Lanterns seldom go into combat with their weapons stored, so this knowledge would only be applicable during an ambush. A full report will.. take a few days more."

The High Mor nods. "We are close. So close, now. Continue with your work, and let me know the moment that this 'Vulcan' makes any progress."

"Thanagar soars."

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Yup.

What you need is a Hypervelocity Scry Wardeded Nth metal bullet, would pop his head like an over ripe melon.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

Thanagar as the next big antagonist? Sounds fun.

 

[Korttihai]

Those devious hawks

 

[Ngamer11]

I hope that Paul puts the fear of god in Thanagar when they finally make their move on Earth. Hopefully Hawkman and Hawkwoman won't completely hate Paul if he goes for the genocide option.

 

[Z000]

I hope that Paul puts the fear of god in Thanagar when they finally make their move on Earth. Hopefully Hawkman and Hawkwoman won't completely hate Paul if he goes for the genocide option.

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Earth is the madhouse of the universe

those hawk people ain't gonna have any fun time once they get there

 

[Prince Charon]

Thanagar as the next big antagonist? Sounds fun.

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Possibly not Thanagar in general, since he's already done that (Stars, Crossed), but apparently a conspiracy within (at the top of?) the Thanagarian government.

 

[Darko]

Krandor Vat winced slightly, twitching his right wing as the muscles responsible for furling it didn't quite respond as they should. He took a moment to reflect that it was fortunate for him that Thanagar never quite adopted the sort of extreme warrior culture that some had called for. Dismissing a senior officer because they were no longer quite the brawler they'd been in their youth would have been the height of wastefulness, and politicians needed a strong arm even less

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Yeah, past a certain point all you need is for your brain to be working.

If his mind ever weakened-. No. As things stood he'd be dead before that became a problem

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Thinking positive thoughts there, Vat.

He glances down at the part of his right wing still in his field of view.

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'glanced'

nonlethally disables several of our insiders

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'disabled'

"Then her work is going as desired, and it is highly probably

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'highly probable'

"We've known for some time that Earth is… Unusual with regard to magic

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'regards'

Hephaestus admitted that he wasn't sure how the arcane transmutation of Nth metal was possible at all

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But Vulcan seems to know.

Most, in fact. Despite being ruled by demons, Thanagar isn't."

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So Hell has a connection to the rest of the universe?

I remember Paul mentioning that some ways that magic could be used to travel to other wirkds would be through either the Dreaming or Hell.

Do aliens that die on worlds where Hell has a connection, but there's no gods from the Dreaming, automatically go to Hell?

Klus shakes his head. "None, High Mor. None inside the Empire or amongst our neighbours. Aside from Alstair and Earth, the closest would be Alavorn.

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Another person named Artemis.

"If necessary. I remember that both the Illustres and our operatives have noted that humans are inefficient at taking advantage of the opportunities their technology affords them. Even with the reborn ancient able to instruct them, they've made no efforts to use Nth metal so far

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One reason for that could be that they don't have a lot of the stuff in the first place, so they prefer to focus on things that can potentially be mass-produced.

 

[Darko]

I hope that Paul puts the fear of god in Thanagar when they finally make their move on Earth. Hopefully Hawkman and Hawkwoman won't completely hate Paul if he goes for the genocide option.

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I don't think Paul would go that far, mostly because the Thanagarians aren't genetically evil like the Citadelians and Psions, so they can actually learn to be better.

Paul would probably damage their military to the point where they can't expand anymore, and dismantle their highest government levels, but not kill every single Thanagarian.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'glanced'
'disabled'
'highly probable'
'regards'

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Thank you, corrected.

So Hell has a connection to the rest of the universe?

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I'm probably going to have the Seven Devils be more like C'tan than actual demons.

 

[Darko]

I'm probably going to have the Seven Devils be more like C'tan than actual demons

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I just assumed that they were gods that came from the Dreaming and the "Devils" in their name was either an insult given to them by their enemies or something they used to show their nature as evil beings.

Though they do have great similarities with the C'tan.

Evil gods, gave their worshippers magical metal that defines their society etc.

 

[DrThoth]

"Thanagar soars."

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Looks like they haven't heard of the story of Icarus in all their reports on Hellenic deities. Or they dismissed it as humans naturally being doomed to fail in flight unlike Thanagarians, I guess.

Speaking of the lack of human initiative in using extra ore-dinary resources properly, did anyone in Thanagarian Intelligence or the Hawks think to look for other forge gods from other cultures? It may be unfeasible compared to approaching known and reachable figures like Heph and Vulcan have become during the arcane industrialization, but seems like something to consider.

I'm not fully sure if there's more going on than the Empire just trying to find a way to make their unobtainium Nth Metal to avoid scarcity and continue expansion, though that's reason enough for their actions.

Do they not know about Paragon coming back from the dead multiple times? Or are their anti-Lantern techniques they're testing on him just meant to apply to general anti-Lantern combat and not him specifically? They should at least know he's bonded to a cosmically powerful entity from their intelligence resources (I forget if Paragon did anything super-Ophidiany in his first visit to Thanagar).

I don't think Paul would go that far, mostly because the Thanagarians aren't genetically evil like the Citadelians and Psions, so they can actually learn to be better.

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I believe the Psions aren't shown to be genetically evil either, right? They're just a lot more effective with their cultural indoctrination methods. I don't know how Renegade and the Controller's rehabilitation and reeducation efforts are going.

 

[Prince Charon]

Do they not know about Paragon coming back from the dead multiple times? Or are their anti-Lantern techniques they're testing on him just meant to apply to general anti-Lantern combat and not him specifically? They should at least know he's bonded to a cosmically powerful entity from their intelligence resources (I forget if Paragon did anything super-Ophidiany in his first visit to Thanagar).

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Also, I wonder if they realize that using that technique against him means that he, and possibly other Orange Lanterns (and maybe the Greens if anyone relays a report to the Guardians), are reasonably likely to be prepared for it if its used again.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

Also, I wonder if they realize that using that technique against him means that he, and possibly other Orange Lanterns (and maybe the Greens if anyone relays a report to the Guardians), are reasonably likely to be prepared for it if its used again.

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Just tell it to Hinon and she'll get it fixed.

 

[DrThoth]

So Hell has a connection to the rest of the universe?

I remember Paul mentioning that some ways that magic could be used to travel to other wirkds would be through either the Dreaming or Hell.

Do aliens that die on worlds where Hell has a connection, but there's no gods from the Dreaming, automatically go to Hell?

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I believe Satanus and Ritchie Simpson were talking about the arcane arks to travel to other planets through their hells, yes, and Zoat brought up Kryptonian Hell and demons a long time ago with links to screenshots- there's of course the recent example of Earth-666 universe with the Kryptonian Demon, though that backstory and its interactions with that Earth's Hell hasn't really been followed up on.

I'd imagine if there were worlds with a connection to a Hell, they'd be thaumically active in some capacity and so likely produce alternate metaphysical afterlives too.

Is Horus totally unrelated to anything with the Thanagarians? I don't think he was brought up in relation to Khufu either. If they were ever shopping around for a friendlier hawk/avian-based deity (and one with ties to war and rulership, at that), he'd be a good pick (and might be more comfortable with having material avatars due to the pharoahs often being divine manifestations/representatives themselves, if that's true in this setting). Though the High Mor's anti-alien beliefs seem genuine enough to dismiss strategies like that.

 

[Darko]

Speaking of the lack of human initiative in using extra ore-dinary resources properly, did anyone in Thanagarian Intelligence or the Hawks think to look for other forge gods from other cultures? It may be unfeasible compared to approaching known and reachable figures like Heph and Vulcan have become during the arcane industrialization, but seems like something to consider

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The Hawks may not have any idea of how to get in touch with any other forge gods.

They should at least know he's bonded to a cosmically powerful entity from their intelligence resources (I forget if Paragon did anything super-Ophidiany in his first visit to Thanagar).

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No he didn't, but they may have gotten the footage of him during his Ophidian merger on Earth.

Also, I wonder if they realize that using that technique against him means that he, and possibly other Orange Lanterns (and maybe the Greens if anyone relays a report to the Guardians), are reasonably likely to be prepared for it if its used again.

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True, but just because a group can overcome the methods you are using to beat that group, that doesn't mean you shouldn't use them while you can.

 

[preier]

Yup.
Scry Wardeded

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Is the second 'ed' a typo or an amusing way to say it's warded and warded again?

 

[Joelseph14]

Damn that 200 year schedule of Thanagar's invasion getting pushed forward a bit huh?

 

[AmericanNumbers]

This is very interesting since effectively it's all Paragon's fault. Because he's blocked the Reach from the region of Space where Earth is, made Nth Metal and Blocked Synn from weakening Thanagar so now we get thanagar agression towards Earth.

 

[Ngamer11]

I don't think Paul would go that far, mostly because the Thanagarians aren't genetically evil like the Citadelians and Psions, so they can actually learn to be better.

Paul would probably damage their military to the point where they can't expand anymore, and dismantle their highest government levels, but not kill every single Thanagarian.

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I'm just throwing that possibility out there. Even if he doesn't go down the genocide route, Paul should do something to try and make sure they don't do something like that. Maybe somehow render the Nth metal in the primary offenders inert to demonstrate that he can and show that he can take away that which the thanagarian species thinks most important to their identity. Think of it, still having their wings, but forever bound to the ground, unable to fly ever again. That would be a great punishment for the people thinking themselves superior simply because they can fly.