Vaermina
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Given actual historic myths?
He would probably force Athena to be his new wife, whether she wanted to or not.
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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- self insert young justice
He would probably force Athena to be his new wife, whether she wanted to or not.
Duke Long
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Why Athena, specifically?
Nervaqus987
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There's a myth about how Hephaestus once tried to rape her, cripple smith vs warrior goddess didn't end in his favor.
Ngamer11
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That happened with raising the dead. The ones who were in hell gave Satanus an opportunity to try and kill Paul.
Vaermina
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Multiple myths.
And in them it was less it didn't end well for Hephaestus, and more Athena escaped at the literal last second.
There's also the fact that Hephaestus is considered to be Athena's counterpart. The inspiration to men to her inspiration to women as it were.
Michael Vonica
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I know that. But still, Paul actually did raise the dead. And he could do it again, if he wanted to. Even call in some deals with Mammon. He just doesn't want to. It wasn't a real failure, nor was the outcome really unexpected. The process was just easily hijacked by powerful beings.
I would count what Paul did to Mammon in my earlier list of crimes against nature, but making a demon act rationally isn't really that strange. I also don't count all the stuff he does with the emotional spectrum, because that is much more in his area of expertise than cutting edge magical subversion.
BlueMangoAdea
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Huh. Speaking of Titans in parole.
"Prometheus will feature, but at the moment he's still in Tartarus."
So I guess Prometheus gets to come out after Hephaestus is King of Olympus?
Edit: Also, it seems like this is an arc that has been planned for a while.
"I have.. plans for Zeus."
"Prometheus will feature, but at the moment he's still in Tartarus."
So I guess Prometheus gets to come out after Hephaestus is King of Olympus?
Edit: Also, it seems like this is an arc that has been planned for a while.
"I have.. plans for Zeus."
Coup Data (supplementary, Renegade Option)
Mr Zoat
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27th October 2012
09:58 GMT -5
"…Lex Luthor a space fleet, Grayven." General Sam Lane looks quite unimpressed, but knowing him he'll at least hear me out. "When we signed off on putting him on probation, that isn't exactly what I had in mind."
"My aim was always to encourage Lex to direct his energies more effectively for the good of mankind. If you thought I meant 'run LexCorp and nothing else', then… I can only apologise for the miscommunication. Earth needs a fleet, and is nowhere near politically unified enough to run one via government bodies or international institutions. This way, the fleet has a clear directing mind free of political interference."
"And the United States loses military primacy. Are you planning on moving to Sudan or something?"
"No, I've just got Challenger Mountain working the way I like it. And it will be a while before Africa has the infrastructure to be… Somewhere I'm comfortable living. Besides, Lex is hardly likely to act against America, is he?"
"Do you mean 'again'?"
"I mean in an existential way. He makes money by selling electricity, and the US is the largest consumer of electricity. Particularly now that President Horne is going full-bore for electrification of the car market. Lex's expansion into Africa requires huge amounts of money that the US energy market happily provides. Don't you like being energy independent?"
"Sure, but I don't see how being Lex Luthor dependent is any better."
I shrug. "What do you think he's going to demand that he can't just buy?"
I take a moment to look around this gathering of leading lights in the US defence… Industry? Is 'industry' the term when it includes senior officers and civil servants-?
I have to stop myself smirking.
The presidential election is in a couple of months. Knight got the Republican nomination because… I guess it's because they didn't have anyone better. The whole… Caucusing thing didn't really mean much to me; that's not how we do things in Britain. Or on Apokolips. He's making an effort, and his public approval rating is in advance of what it was at the start of the campaign, but all he's really got to offer is nationalistic rhetoric and a promise to increase in public spending.
His main target appears to be Lex Luthor's Earth Defence Force. Good luck scraping together the technology for starships from our leavings, Mr. Trying-To-Be President.
Somehow, someone talked Horne into doing this get-together as a not-campaign event. Since defence and law and order are his strongest categories in the public imagination, he really only has to do the occasional photo opportunity to remind people what he's managed to achieve in the field. Me being here… Well, America was sort of split on my actions in Africa between 'alien invader shows his true colours' and 'about time someone sorted that place out', with the second group coming out ahead now that they can see something of my end game. I'm not quite the unalloyed benefit that I used to be: Americans who would back a lethal enforcer are a little more wary about someone like that having political authority. But I'm still a big enough deal to warrant an invitation.
Of course, I do appreciate Sam's position. He's put a lot of work into this area, and I decided to go with Lex instead. Not too surprising that he's taking it a little personally.
I wave my right hand around in a circle. "I mean, he's certainly not going to demand that you… Oh, I don't know, ignore an active slave trade or women being banned from public life and driving like some US allies I could mention."
"But we are supposed to forget about the cities he gassed and the children he murdered?"
I raise an eyebrow at that.
"Do you really think I'd have left him alive if I hadn't confirmed that he wasn't the directing mind in either of those incidents?" I take a sip from my glass, relieved that the White House has a range of non-alcoholic beverages. "But if you want some advice on how you should respond..?"
"Yeah?"
"Put together a colonisation proposal. Africa is seeing a major improvement in its standard of living, so there's not a lot of drive for people to leave."
He raises his eyebrows.
"But America's falling apart, right?"
"I wouldn't say 'falling apart', but there are demographic issues relating to former industrial cities from which jobs have been 'outsourced'. And then you've got to consider what version of human culture you want spread amongst the stars. Lex will be establishing meritocratic corporations. If you want democracy and constitutional rights to be the face of humanity the rest of the universe sees, you need a population that believes in those things out there settling new worlds."
He nods.
"Are you saying the same thing to China and Russia?"
"I don't really have an 'in' with Russia. With China…" I shrug. "I pointed out that the politburo wouldn't be able to exercise effective control of a settlement on another planet without their own fleet. That rather put them off the idea."
"Neither would we. But I guess that's not so big a deal for freedom-loving Americans as it is for China."
"That's my point. Colonies wouldn't want to be ruled from another world anyway, not once they're basically self-sufficient. Colonies are expensive to set up and don't provide much in the way of economic advantage. Founding one is a profoundly idealistic endeavour."
Sam takes a sip from his own drink.
"Idealistic? We couldn't supply it or defend it."
"This region of space is fairly safe. And that's Lex's job."
He glowers faintly. "No, it's my job."
"Best get building a starship or two, then. I'm not stopping you. Maybe you could scrap the nuclear silo rebuilding program to pay for it?"
"Those things are sixty years old."
"Yes. Sixty years ago it wouldn't have been practical to put them in space. But let's not muck about: nuclear missiles in space are far more practical than putting them in a hardened bunker on the ground. No need to rise against gravity, no being stationary and risking being wiped out by a supersonic missile strike from your enemies, and you can fire them at attacking aliens as well."
"Decommissioning them wouldn't be much cheaper."
"Sell them as-is, then. I mean, take out the nukes-"
"Yeah Grayven, I worked that one out."
"-first, but I'm sure there are survivalists and eccentrics who could raise the money for it. And it's not like the systems in there are classified any more, right?"
"Some of them are, but that's mostly because they're still in use. If we transferred over, we could declassify it. But unless Lex is suddenly sharing, I don't see where this US Space Force is going to suddenly come from."
"Well…" I fan my hands out. "One hears things."
His face hardens. "And what exactly has one heard?"
"That certain parties have been rather eager to discuss Sunset Shimmer's hellship idea. You know she still lives in my mountain, don't you?"
He nods, his face relaxing very slightly. America's relations with Atlantis in general and Venturia in particular are good enough that they could probably bargain for the magicians they'd need to build the ships, but it's going to be five to ten years before they could handle the realm transitions themselves.
"We're doing some exploratory work with our Atlantean friends. Just assessing the practicality. As I'm sure that Miss Shimmer has told you, we don't have the infrastructure for something like that."
True, but it's not their main focus. They're researching the creature that inspired the experiments that created Captain Atom, only with a better educated and less evil research team. That should result in them getting some sort of modern spacecraft off the ground in three to four years. I'm not aware of any other races in the universe that use dilustel, so that will be an interesting development. And one that I can't talk about, because it would reveal exactly how closely I've been monitoring their work.
"Worth planning ahead. We're the only ones you're behind-."
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States of America, Jonathan Horne."
09:58 GMT -5
"…Lex Luthor a space fleet, Grayven." General Sam Lane looks quite unimpressed, but knowing him he'll at least hear me out. "When we signed off on putting him on probation, that isn't exactly what I had in mind."
"My aim was always to encourage Lex to direct his energies more effectively for the good of mankind. If you thought I meant 'run LexCorp and nothing else', then… I can only apologise for the miscommunication. Earth needs a fleet, and is nowhere near politically unified enough to run one via government bodies or international institutions. This way, the fleet has a clear directing mind free of political interference."
"And the United States loses military primacy. Are you planning on moving to Sudan or something?"
"No, I've just got Challenger Mountain working the way I like it. And it will be a while before Africa has the infrastructure to be… Somewhere I'm comfortable living. Besides, Lex is hardly likely to act against America, is he?"
"Do you mean 'again'?"
"I mean in an existential way. He makes money by selling electricity, and the US is the largest consumer of electricity. Particularly now that President Horne is going full-bore for electrification of the car market. Lex's expansion into Africa requires huge amounts of money that the US energy market happily provides. Don't you like being energy independent?"
"Sure, but I don't see how being Lex Luthor dependent is any better."
I shrug. "What do you think he's going to demand that he can't just buy?"
I take a moment to look around this gathering of leading lights in the US defence… Industry? Is 'industry' the term when it includes senior officers and civil servants-?
I have to stop myself smirking.
The presidential election is in a couple of months. Knight got the Republican nomination because… I guess it's because they didn't have anyone better. The whole… Caucusing thing didn't really mean much to me; that's not how we do things in Britain. Or on Apokolips. He's making an effort, and his public approval rating is in advance of what it was at the start of the campaign, but all he's really got to offer is nationalistic rhetoric and a promise to increase in public spending.
His main target appears to be Lex Luthor's Earth Defence Force. Good luck scraping together the technology for starships from our leavings, Mr. Trying-To-Be President.
Somehow, someone talked Horne into doing this get-together as a not-campaign event. Since defence and law and order are his strongest categories in the public imagination, he really only has to do the occasional photo opportunity to remind people what he's managed to achieve in the field. Me being here… Well, America was sort of split on my actions in Africa between 'alien invader shows his true colours' and 'about time someone sorted that place out', with the second group coming out ahead now that they can see something of my end game. I'm not quite the unalloyed benefit that I used to be: Americans who would back a lethal enforcer are a little more wary about someone like that having political authority. But I'm still a big enough deal to warrant an invitation.
Of course, I do appreciate Sam's position. He's put a lot of work into this area, and I decided to go with Lex instead. Not too surprising that he's taking it a little personally.
I wave my right hand around in a circle. "I mean, he's certainly not going to demand that you… Oh, I don't know, ignore an active slave trade or women being banned from public life and driving like some US allies I could mention."
"But we are supposed to forget about the cities he gassed and the children he murdered?"
I raise an eyebrow at that.
"Do you really think I'd have left him alive if I hadn't confirmed that he wasn't the directing mind in either of those incidents?" I take a sip from my glass, relieved that the White House has a range of non-alcoholic beverages. "But if you want some advice on how you should respond..?"
"Yeah?"
"Put together a colonisation proposal. Africa is seeing a major improvement in its standard of living, so there's not a lot of drive for people to leave."
He raises his eyebrows.
"But America's falling apart, right?"
"I wouldn't say 'falling apart', but there are demographic issues relating to former industrial cities from which jobs have been 'outsourced'. And then you've got to consider what version of human culture you want spread amongst the stars. Lex will be establishing meritocratic corporations. If you want democracy and constitutional rights to be the face of humanity the rest of the universe sees, you need a population that believes in those things out there settling new worlds."
He nods.
"Are you saying the same thing to China and Russia?"
"I don't really have an 'in' with Russia. With China…" I shrug. "I pointed out that the politburo wouldn't be able to exercise effective control of a settlement on another planet without their own fleet. That rather put them off the idea."
"Neither would we. But I guess that's not so big a deal for freedom-loving Americans as it is for China."
"That's my point. Colonies wouldn't want to be ruled from another world anyway, not once they're basically self-sufficient. Colonies are expensive to set up and don't provide much in the way of economic advantage. Founding one is a profoundly idealistic endeavour."
Sam takes a sip from his own drink.
"Idealistic? We couldn't supply it or defend it."
"This region of space is fairly safe. And that's Lex's job."
He glowers faintly. "No, it's my job."
"Best get building a starship or two, then. I'm not stopping you. Maybe you could scrap the nuclear silo rebuilding program to pay for it?"
"Those things are sixty years old."
"Yes. Sixty years ago it wouldn't have been practical to put them in space. But let's not muck about: nuclear missiles in space are far more practical than putting them in a hardened bunker on the ground. No need to rise against gravity, no being stationary and risking being wiped out by a supersonic missile strike from your enemies, and you can fire them at attacking aliens as well."
"Decommissioning them wouldn't be much cheaper."
"Sell them as-is, then. I mean, take out the nukes-"
"Yeah Grayven, I worked that one out."
"-first, but I'm sure there are survivalists and eccentrics who could raise the money for it. And it's not like the systems in there are classified any more, right?"
"Some of them are, but that's mostly because they're still in use. If we transferred over, we could declassify it. But unless Lex is suddenly sharing, I don't see where this US Space Force is going to suddenly come from."
"Well…" I fan my hands out. "One hears things."
His face hardens. "And what exactly has one heard?"
"That certain parties have been rather eager to discuss Sunset Shimmer's hellship idea. You know she still lives in my mountain, don't you?"
He nods, his face relaxing very slightly. America's relations with Atlantis in general and Venturia in particular are good enough that they could probably bargain for the magicians they'd need to build the ships, but it's going to be five to ten years before they could handle the realm transitions themselves.
"We're doing some exploratory work with our Atlantean friends. Just assessing the practicality. As I'm sure that Miss Shimmer has told you, we don't have the infrastructure for something like that."
True, but it's not their main focus. They're researching the creature that inspired the experiments that created Captain Atom, only with a better educated and less evil research team. That should result in them getting some sort of modern spacecraft off the ground in three to four years. I'm not aware of any other races in the universe that use dilustel, so that will be an interesting development. And one that I can't talk about, because it would reveal exactly how closely I've been monitoring their work.
"Worth planning ahead. We're the only ones you're behind-."
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States of America, Jonathan Horne."
Last edited:
Darko
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'at the'
Yeah, I think he thinks that and he wouldn't be wrong to think that you would do that since you just may do something like that.
'in the ground'
Ngamer11
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That should say 'at'.
Does the fact that it's called a hellship mean it is in anyway powered by the forces of hell? Or is there another reason for its naming scheme?
Handlewithcare
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People like Sam here are one of the big things wrong with this world.
Darko
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One of the ways to use magic to travel to different planets is by going through Hell.
I'm assuming that this ship is able to enter Hell and then come out to a different part of the universe.
NightmareWarden
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I think Paragon-Paul talked about the idea that hell, as a realm like the Kingdoms/Parliaments, is not limited to Earth. So one could theoretically travel in the right direction, open a portal from one part of hell and wind up on another planet. The "ship" of hellship comes from the vehicle used to traverse hell to reach an appropriate portal site.
Ngamer11
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I think I remember Paul asking John Quinn about that. I suppose it makes sense that it would show up in the Renegade timeline instead, since the Renegade has his own personal magic researcher in Sunset.
RichardWhereat
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It's not about being able to afford it, it's about domination. You'd think pretending to be the son of Darkseid, that he'd get that.
Chojin Patriarch
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True, a bored lex Luthor is a dangerous Lex. Especially if he isn't focused on outdoing Superman. That's when he starts looking at everyone else and going 'You idiots are doing it all wrong.' Best to keep him focused on things like not letting other aliens invade.
Given that he owns big chunks of it, and has a certain measure of possessive feelings towards the rest, I doubt it. Why trash the place you want to rule?
Good luck with that. Americans love their big, noisy cars too much to give it up entirely, no matter what some bigwig in Washington says.
Honestly, businessman Lex could generally just buy the country, if he wanted to rule it. But that would get in the way of actually interesting things.
To be fair, military applications do drive innovation. Usually by way of improving ease of repair and functionality. I've read too many stories of top-end cars that need to be half-dismantled to make a simple repair because engineers 'optimised' the design for performance, not ease of use. Military stuff? Not nearly so tricky, once the regular mechanics get their hands on things.
Generic stuff. I don't fancy his chances.
Especially when Lex holds the patents for the energy tech involved.
Especially considering stuff like Klarion and his involvement in solving the Sheeda incident. Assuming the latter is public information.
Oooh, snap.
I'm sure he had very good excuses. If not, his lawyers were probably very noisy.
Heh, hanging on Grayven's every word. And he doesn't even realise he's doing it, does he?
Now, now, did he say that?
...And you want Americans to be that face?
Ehhh...I mean, Russia is at least closer to a space-fleet program than America...
An American Colony would probably give the mother planet two middle fingers if they tried anything they didn't like. Like a baby Texas.
But it's a hell of a big idealistic endeavour. The whole country would probably have an ego-boner if they pulled it off.
Which is half the problem. Sam wants space to be American.
Another topical argument ahead...
As long as they could pivot to face out, and acquire targets in space. Orbital weapons batteries tends to be one of those sore spots in politics.
Sell them as what? Epic-level fireworks launchers?
And better to have them acquire them legally so you can levy taxes on them, than them turning to the black market or something.
Gee, Sam Lane not in the know on new projects? (Or at least very good at pretending)...
Who'd have thought?...I don't know, using Hell as a shortcut across interstellar distances sounds all manner of risky.
...Yet.
...Man, DC has some weird ideas sometimes. Especially when retro-welding stuff they acquired pre-Crisis.
At least, the only ones they know of.
An interesting little diversion. Presumably OL, Hecate and Simpson's brainstorming session is taking a while, or is too boring to show on-screen.
And Mr Zoat can keep whatever discoveries they make secret until it's time for them to be unveiled, so win-win. Still, amusing to see the Renegade's secondary allies a little dissatisfied with his focus on others. But it's not like he was married to the idea of serving America. Would have looked a little awkward if Apokalips had looked in at the wrong moment, after all.
Citizen
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AR760
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When Lex isn't actively being fucked over by his paranoia and various neuroses, he basically wins everything forever. That's how fucking smart and willful the dude is. I mean, usually he is good up to and sometimes even including up to Deity level shenanigans, where depending on the writer, he can exist on even that board at times without being immediately squished by greater powers.
Sure, this is more or less true depending on the writer and the DC Universe/Timeline in question, but all in all, Lex Luthor is a human being with the capacity to basically triumph over most odds with nothing more than his wit and his will.
I love the archetype. When he isn't tied down by his obsessions, he's basically a Human Lucifer. When written well he's DC's answer to Victor Von Doom
Breadnaught
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I get the impression Sunset learned about Warhammer 40k and thought "that sounds like a great idea!"
I know using another realm where physics works a bit different as a form of hyperspace is a scifi classic, but they generally only use hell dimensions as their hyperspace when there's no better option.
Silveraith
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Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
You may be technically correct here, but I think it's a reasonable thing for Grayven to say.
As I understand US law, that means that anyone who wants to use it can use it, but they have to pay him for the privilege.
Thank you, corrected.
CTrees
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So has the Outer Space Treaty of 1967 been rescinded? One of the major principles of that treaty, to which the US was a signatory, was that no state could place nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in space.
Mr Zoat
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Yes. All parties recognised that it needed to go as contact with aliens started happening, and the Sheeda and Lex Luthor's fleet were the final death knell. They can't put weapons in space that pass over the territory of other nations, but otherwise it's all go. Major nations are mostly keeping one another informed of what they're doing, as they're united in trying to defend the same planet.
Doccer
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Hellship?
mastermenthe
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It's funny you say that because the whole thing with warp travel is that it was a case of the emperor not having the technology base available to use the better FTL options in time to actually manage the upcoming immediate Stellaris Crisis scale threats such as the rangdan. Warp Travel provided the highest speed of transit of all of the emperor's options, but the entire great crusade was meant to set humanity back up as a the ruling galaxy-wide empire once they were able to upgrade into any of the better FTL options, of which webway travel was actually still largely inferior to the other options they could have used, but then the heresy happened. Suddenly only the FTL options that were already in place were the ones that anybody ever thought to use. The better FTL options still exist, but are no longer even possible for humanity to upgrade into, due to the heresy stealing away the competent half of the adeptus mechanicus, along with destroying or corrupting all the requisite databases in Mars and Earth to restart from first principles.
Mr Zoat
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In theory, it's possible to open a portal to hell, fly through, close it, and then open a portal to any thaumically active world. As far as the Renegade knows no one has actually tried it yet, and the First of the Fallen probably wouldn't like it.
Bud-E
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Isn't the First of the Fallen dead? And Lucifer is on earth somewhere?
Darko
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No, in the Renegade timeline, Renegade managed to get the Sword of the Fallen and kill Sabbac fairly quickly, so they didn't need to summon the First to deal with him.
Because of this the First of the Fallen is still alive in the Renegade timeline.
And Licifer may have left the universe in that timeline too.
RichardWhereat
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So, I shouldn't send in selfies?
