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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
-
- Tags
- self insert young justice
Vaermina
Well worn.
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Lets see how long LePaul can last before resulting to either deadly force or mind control.
Handlewithcare
Versed in the lewd.
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Paul:"Okay, for the sake of some perspective I will stop playing in the slighly-above gods league and do the plebeian thing of being a run of the mill top tier superhero"
NightmareWarden
Versed in the lewd.
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Hmm. Chapter 1 began on August 14, 2013. This is the August 7, 2022 update. Just shy of nine years of With This Ring, and Paragon!Paul is finally living up to his name. The most Paragon of the Paul alts (and no, being on the Suicide Squad did not make Angel!Paul more moral). Paragon!Paul is finally willing to wear his underwear on the outside, setup a secret identity, and play cops & robbers with dastardly supervillains.
This is a momentous day.
Joking aside, I'm surprised (wait…)
Mr Zoat
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Duke Long
Glomerulus
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'the heir to'?
'support'?
'wreaks'?
'poring'
That was one of my favourite bits of War of the Worlds.
I'm finally caught up.
Lothlo
Not too sore, are you?
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It's a shame that in 9 years, a reader could have become a DC writer, and created a background character called Paul who is an Orange Lanter, just for a panel. Just a mention of the name and his appearence. With that, we would have made Paul a canon character. Guest appearance of the Imp who was looking to see if Paul was a canon character or not in all DC media, appearing on a chaper telling Paragorn that he found him on a new 52 Green Lantern comic. Just the reaction of Paragorn would be ... superb
inglorius
Getting sticky.
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Which timezone you live in?
Lord Ernest
At the End...
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The Illustres was asking if "she married their (Constantine) you". Not any heir or anything of the like.
Duke Long
Glomerulus
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Oh right, I get it now. Thanks.
Mr Zoat
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No, their you. John 666.
No, wrecks. The broken metal bodies that were once transformers.
Thank you, corrected.
Windona
Beetle Queen of Crackshipping
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Ooo, traditional superhero. That should be interesting, especially given that a lot of superheroes have different wheelhouses. And actually, I don't think a lot of Team members who stay Team members do a lot of traditional heroing on their own, do they?
I was going to ask which calendar they use, since where I am it's September not August.
I was going to ask which calendar they use, since where I am it's September not August.
Sojiko
Getting sticky.
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Dammit! I really want the SI to interract with The Shade, and possibly discover his stowaway.
Wow that is really not where I was expecting this to go. I'm pumped to read the upcoming arcs now!
Bud-E
Stand up so I can push you down!
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I'm pretty sure they've met before off-screen in the paragon timeline. And I don't think he would be able sense the fact that the Shade is being manipulated. I only think Renegade could because New Gods can sense souls and had a Motherbox on him which can practically perform magic itself.
Bramble Thorn
Verified Silhouette
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To finding out he's a New 52 comic background character?
*Queues up Kirk 'Khaaaaaaaaaaan' clip.*
Darko
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Shade helped Paragon with some monster Truggs brought and later had a talk with some alien woman with a connection to the Shadowlands.
jonasquinn
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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Honestly I'm not really a fan of where all this is going, partly because being a utilitarian is a large part of who OL is and if he suddenly stops being one a lot of what he's built kinda falls apart or at least becomes far less efficient
But it's largely that I'm still struggling to connect the two points of the JSI and why it's effected OL this much, the main argument seems to be that the JSI are the endpoint of what OL's utilitarianism would lead to but that's just not true, it ignores any and all additional context and the League taking OL's advice wouldn't suddenly turn them into the JSI
I can kind of understand that seeing an Alan that's so jaded he's willing to turn his own son into a living weapon making him more appreciative of conventional superheroes and acknowledge that it's good that not all heroes are like him but that story also emphasises that we do need utilitarian people as well because without Commander Scott making that choice was the only thing that saved humanity
But it's largely that I'm still struggling to connect the two points of the JSI and why it's effected OL this much, the main argument seems to be that the JSI are the endpoint of what OL's utilitarianism would lead to but that's just not true, it ignores any and all additional context and the League taking OL's advice wouldn't suddenly turn them into the JSI
I can kind of understand that seeing an Alan that's so jaded he's willing to turn his own son into a living weapon making him more appreciative of conventional superheroes and acknowledge that it's good that not all heroes are like him but that story also emphasises that we do need utilitarian people as well because without Commander Scott making that choice was the only thing that saved humanity
Prince Charon
Just zis guy, you know?
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I think it's not so much 'would lead to' as 'could lead to.' The fact that it is plausible, even likely, to get that result is what's giving him problems. I think.
Uncomplicated Good Works (part 3)
Mr Zoat
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29th November 2012
08:01 GMT
"Some were quite good, but others will not pass the censors."
The Bat shrugs, then takes a sip of tea. I've shown him around my Bir Tawil home, he's made interested noises, and now it's time to talk.
The League... Are more or less in favour of my efforts to make National Socialist Earth less National Socialist. But that doesn't extend to letting me use League resources to keep in touch. Which… Yes, the UN would probably blow their collective tops if they found out that the League were using their funds for something like that. For… Pretty understandable reasons, really.
But it needs to happen, so I've moved Dr. Sivana's relay to Bir Tawil, a little way away from my home. My first attempt at cultural infiltration came in the form of cinema, because even things with no overt anti-National Socialist theme will include cultural assumptions that they don't share. I've been hoping that -with there not having really been external influences on their Earth for sixty years- their censors would be out of practice.
Let's see what the damage was.
"Oh? What was the problem?"
"Oh, it is best not to dwell on the negative. Rather, we should focus on the successes, the things that our societies have in common."
Oh, he obviously knows exactly how I feel about that.
"Bat,-."
"You want to have a brief honest talk about our actual objectives before we retreat into our familiar epistemologies." He nods. "And to find out whether or not I actually know what Overman and Overgirl are doing. Because you lack the confidence in your own intelligence to tease that information out over a period of time."
"I'll have to do that anyway. It's not like I can trust anything you say."
"That's a little harsh. Particularly-" He points his right forefinger at my face. "-given that you can see inside my soul."
"There are ways to block that."
"It's going to be a while before magic becomes acceptable in the Reich. Almost as long as it will take for us to persuade you to give us access to your knowledge of the subject."
"Your Atlantis not sharing?"
"Our Atlanteans were bio-engineered. We did check." He looks away, an odd expression on his lips. "Some in the Ministry of Culture were hopeful that an… Acceptably 'Aryan' magic might be discovered."
"Aryan in style, or as a discrete thing? Because there probably were forms of magic used by whatever people you're referring to as 'Aryan' that weren't used by, say, Africans."
"I wasn't involved in that discussion. But, reading the minutes to try and understand it was like trying to explain the doctrine of the Trinity to a pagan."
"Overgirl told you the Arianism joke, did she?"
"She mentioned the philosophy. My point is that I have no way to prevent you seeing into my soul."
"Still, I'd like to know."
"Anyone who knows him knows that Overman is not happy with things. And anyone who watches his public interviews-. The live ones, I mean. If he wants to reform things… Well." He shrugs. "He may try, and he may succeed or fail. That is the nature of Darwinism."
"And how do you feel about it?"
"Ah, I doubt that I will live long enough to see any major changes. It will be the work of a generation at least. If he wants to standardise the rules for the black reservations, it makes no difference to me. If he wants to change the censorship laws, it makes no difference to me. If he wants to change history lessons in schools, it makes no difference to me. I won't like it, because I'm old and set in my ways, but I recognise that. I doubt that he will change Greater Germany enough to make much difference."
"No?"
"No. He and I are from the same generation. We share an underlying sense of what is normal. I don't believe that he'll do anything too extreme, which is why I am not going to try to acquire kryptonite while I am here."
"I'm not sure whether to be relieved or disappointed."
"Now you know how I feel, even without staring into my soul. So, the films."
"Yes. What was the problem?"
"We liked Sky High. The idea of a central training centre for empowered superhumans has been raised on numerous occasions, but the various institutions of state have never been able to agree on how to make it work. There were clear ideas of hereditary power and responsibility yoked to the good of the state as a whole, and the overt pro-eugenics message played very well. Particularly at the end, with how the superhumans with limited abilities were still able to provide useful 'hero support' while the innately superior hero saved the day."
I… I think that was the exact opposite of-. Different culture. Of course he's going to see things differently.
"The black child wasn't a problem?"
"He was inoffensive. I suppose there is the question of how we treat negro sup-er…" He trails off, looking both amused and confused. "It is a little difficult to know how to refer to them. 'Supernegro'? The Incredibles will not pass the censors due to its freezing negro being too prominent, but the one in Sky High is fine."
"And.. the theme of not underestimating people who were dismissed by the authorities as useless?"
"No, no. If someone surpasses what the authorities believe are their limitations…" He frowns. "What was the line in Gattaca? 'That merely means that we did not measure their potential properly'. The guinea pig girl, for example. How often would being able to turn into a guinea pig realistically be useful? But nonetheless, she kept her wits about her and used it in the one time in her life that it was. A person does not need superpowers to be a good citizen. I do not have superpowers." He leans forward slightly, smiling. "But I am not going to try and arm wrestle Overman. There are things I cannot do, and will never be able to do."
…
"So that's approved?"
"No, it will have to go through the censors, but I cannot imagine what other complaints they could have."
I sigh inwardly.
"And the others?"
"Wall-E was an instructive demonstration of the dangers of lassitude and complacency, as well as decadence and dependence on others."
"Again, no problem with the black characters?"
"National Socialists don't just oppress negros. The negros are just the only ones who survived. There isn't a problem with including negros with other types of degenerate."
"And you don't think there might be a problem with the evil AI who was lying to everyone about the state of Earth?"
"Why would there be?" He grins. "Hah, my little joke. No, that is not a problem because as an AI it is inherently alien. The portrayal of the captain might have been a problem, but amongst a group of degenerates he took the most effort into becoming more than he was. He sought purpose, and in the end found it in working to restore his people's ancestral homeland."
"Toy Story?"
"A bit disturbing, but essentially harmless."
"A Bug's Life?"
"A parasitical culture being defeated by a collective effort led by a valiant hero."
"The Phantom Menace?"
"No. Not because the censors would block it, it just isn't very good." He looks mildly pained. "And the racial allegory was rather unsubtle, don't you think?"
08:01 GMT
"Some were quite good, but others will not pass the censors."
The Bat shrugs, then takes a sip of tea. I've shown him around my Bir Tawil home, he's made interested noises, and now it's time to talk.
The League... Are more or less in favour of my efforts to make National Socialist Earth less National Socialist. But that doesn't extend to letting me use League resources to keep in touch. Which… Yes, the UN would probably blow their collective tops if they found out that the League were using their funds for something like that. For… Pretty understandable reasons, really.
But it needs to happen, so I've moved Dr. Sivana's relay to Bir Tawil, a little way away from my home. My first attempt at cultural infiltration came in the form of cinema, because even things with no overt anti-National Socialist theme will include cultural assumptions that they don't share. I've been hoping that -with there not having really been external influences on their Earth for sixty years- their censors would be out of practice.
Let's see what the damage was.
"Oh? What was the problem?"
"Oh, it is best not to dwell on the negative. Rather, we should focus on the successes, the things that our societies have in common."
Oh, he obviously knows exactly how I feel about that.
"Bat,-."
"You want to have a brief honest talk about our actual objectives before we retreat into our familiar epistemologies." He nods. "And to find out whether or not I actually know what Overman and Overgirl are doing. Because you lack the confidence in your own intelligence to tease that information out over a period of time."
"I'll have to do that anyway. It's not like I can trust anything you say."
"That's a little harsh. Particularly-" He points his right forefinger at my face. "-given that you can see inside my soul."
"There are ways to block that."
"It's going to be a while before magic becomes acceptable in the Reich. Almost as long as it will take for us to persuade you to give us access to your knowledge of the subject."
"Your Atlantis not sharing?"
"Our Atlanteans were bio-engineered. We did check." He looks away, an odd expression on his lips. "Some in the Ministry of Culture were hopeful that an… Acceptably 'Aryan' magic might be discovered."
"Aryan in style, or as a discrete thing? Because there probably were forms of magic used by whatever people you're referring to as 'Aryan' that weren't used by, say, Africans."
"I wasn't involved in that discussion. But, reading the minutes to try and understand it was like trying to explain the doctrine of the Trinity to a pagan."
"Overgirl told you the Arianism joke, did she?"
"She mentioned the philosophy. My point is that I have no way to prevent you seeing into my soul."
"Still, I'd like to know."
"Anyone who knows him knows that Overman is not happy with things. And anyone who watches his public interviews-. The live ones, I mean. If he wants to reform things… Well." He shrugs. "He may try, and he may succeed or fail. That is the nature of Darwinism."
"And how do you feel about it?"
"Ah, I doubt that I will live long enough to see any major changes. It will be the work of a generation at least. If he wants to standardise the rules for the black reservations, it makes no difference to me. If he wants to change the censorship laws, it makes no difference to me. If he wants to change history lessons in schools, it makes no difference to me. I won't like it, because I'm old and set in my ways, but I recognise that. I doubt that he will change Greater Germany enough to make much difference."
"No?"
"No. He and I are from the same generation. We share an underlying sense of what is normal. I don't believe that he'll do anything too extreme, which is why I am not going to try to acquire kryptonite while I am here."
"I'm not sure whether to be relieved or disappointed."
"Now you know how I feel, even without staring into my soul. So, the films."
"Yes. What was the problem?"
"We liked Sky High. The idea of a central training centre for empowered superhumans has been raised on numerous occasions, but the various institutions of state have never been able to agree on how to make it work. There were clear ideas of hereditary power and responsibility yoked to the good of the state as a whole, and the overt pro-eugenics message played very well. Particularly at the end, with how the superhumans with limited abilities were still able to provide useful 'hero support' while the innately superior hero saved the day."
I… I think that was the exact opposite of-. Different culture. Of course he's going to see things differently.
"The black child wasn't a problem?"
"He was inoffensive. I suppose there is the question of how we treat negro sup-er…" He trails off, looking both amused and confused. "It is a little difficult to know how to refer to them. 'Supernegro'? The Incredibles will not pass the censors due to its freezing negro being too prominent, but the one in Sky High is fine."
"And.. the theme of not underestimating people who were dismissed by the authorities as useless?"
"No, no. If someone surpasses what the authorities believe are their limitations…" He frowns. "What was the line in Gattaca? 'That merely means that we did not measure their potential properly'. The guinea pig girl, for example. How often would being able to turn into a guinea pig realistically be useful? But nonetheless, she kept her wits about her and used it in the one time in her life that it was. A person does not need superpowers to be a good citizen. I do not have superpowers." He leans forward slightly, smiling. "But I am not going to try and arm wrestle Overman. There are things I cannot do, and will never be able to do."
…
"So that's approved?"
"No, it will have to go through the censors, but I cannot imagine what other complaints they could have."
I sigh inwardly.
"And the others?"
"Wall-E was an instructive demonstration of the dangers of lassitude and complacency, as well as decadence and dependence on others."
"Again, no problem with the black characters?"
"National Socialists don't just oppress negros. The negros are just the only ones who survived. There isn't a problem with including negros with other types of degenerate."
"And you don't think there might be a problem with the evil AI who was lying to everyone about the state of Earth?"
"Why would there be?" He grins. "Hah, my little joke. No, that is not a problem because as an AI it is inherently alien. The portrayal of the captain might have been a problem, but amongst a group of degenerates he took the most effort into becoming more than he was. He sought purpose, and in the end found it in working to restore his people's ancestral homeland."
"Toy Story?"
"A bit disturbing, but essentially harmless."
"A Bug's Life?"
"A parasitical culture being defeated by a collective effort led by a valiant hero."
"The Phantom Menace?"
"No. Not because the censors would block it, it just isn't very good." He looks mildly pained. "And the racial allegory was rather unsubtle, don't you think?"
Last edited:
Darko
Connoisseur.
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Did not know what to make of this.
You don't wanna be compared to Nazis.
You're a Nazi.
A genuine WWII era Nazi.
You deserve much, much harsher.
I'm hoping he's proven wrong.
It may not even work, seeing as it's a different universe.
...huh...
You don't wanna be compared to Nazis.
You're a Nazi.
A genuine WWII era Nazi.
You deserve much, much harsher.
I'm hoping he's proven wrong.
It may not even work, seeing as it's a different universe.
...huh...
Bloodalchemy
Versed in the lewd.
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Im trying to imagine the head space you put yourself in to reframe all of those movies from such a different viewpoint. I also wonder if you did any others but didn't like them as much as these.
Lothlo
Not too sore, are you?
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Thank the Source we don't have the original idea that George Lucas had, where Jar Jar was secretly a Lord of the Sith (Possibly Sidious master), but was scrapped due to the reaction people had of the character. Imagine getting to the second/third movie where they find out that the 'gungan' who until that point was the butt end of jokes, was really the mastermind behind everything and awaiting to take revenge on the good guys and government.
Earth socialist censor : what?
Handlewithcare
Versed in the lewd.
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When the literal Nazi goes "Jar Iar Binks was a bit too much" you, uh, might want to revisit some things.
Khornelius
Overlord of the Underworld
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Really? He's a secondary character with a limited role in movie. I mean when he's on screen he's certainly doing his best but against the Robot his powers are basically ineffective at worst and a stalking tactic at best. He's even better in the sequel.
What!?! I'm sorry I don't follow this at all. Is this a thing or is The Bat just seeing something that's not intended to be there?
His opinion of Star Wars mildly hurts.
thebishop8
Umm, ackchyually...
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Jar Jar actually isn't in the Earth 16 version of The Phantom Menace:
Grimnar
Versed in the lewd.
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What a fucking Shit take.
I second this. I have no idea what allegory zoat was trying to imply the Bat saw there.
EDIT: Wait, was that the take? Slutty ruling Jews or something?
PepeTheFrog
Not too sore, are you?
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Isn't there loads of memes about a Bug's Life's central theme being communism? Something something workers seize the means of production?
TheLunarwolf
Making the rounds.
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fixed that rather grievous error for you.
PepeTheFrog
Not too sore, are you?
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Could it be that he thinks Chancellor Palpatine (a guy with what could be argued has a hooked nose) secretly manipulating an empire from the inside is a not to subtle racial allegory for Jewish people? I've got nothing else.