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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Windona said:
Yeah, for all Black Lightning was said to care about the kids and be a leader, he didn't really show it. But uh, don't think this is the place for me to rant about s3.
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Seems on-topic to me, but what do I know?

I remember reading an interview with the creator of Black Lightning, and he was not happy about how later writers treated his conservative Christian superhero.
True, but even then they don't have quite the same casual talk that the Renegade's group does. We have sent business meetings on screen, but Bad Samaritan seems the only one to comment on their own weaknesses and be so forthcoming in canon.
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Who is Bad Samaritan?
 
Mr Zoat said:
Seems on-topic to me, but what do I know?

I remember reading an interview with the creator of Black Lightning, and he was not happy about how later writers treated his conservative Christian superhero.
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Mike Barr also complained about the previews a bit, and some of his comments were spot on. I'm also not over how much s3 went to be progressive with rep... then tripped into being offensive a lot. I will say it got me to read the Outsiders comics though, and fall in love with those characters.

Who is Bad Samaritan?
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Ah, he's only called Zviad Baazovi in the show. He's in s3 and has psychic powers, he's in a meeting in s4 and really has that affable attitude
 
Mr Zoat said:
Who is Bad Samaritan?
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Not made up for the show, he's a minor Outsiders villain, although the YJ version is more of an "in name only adaptation," since comic Bad Samaritan was a powerless Georgian spy for hire, not a Markovian mind controlling evil vizier.

Despite that, he was so slimy on YJ even before the reveal that I was thinking to myself "Is this guy Bad Samaritan?" so I guess they got the quintessential sliminess down.
 
Mr Zoat said:
That's the usual purpose of superheroes in fiction. If they existed in the real world, I imagine people would be a lot more practical about it.
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That's the self stated goal of most superheroes within the context of their works.

Batman, superman and the Flash explicitly state they seek to inspire others with their costumes.

If they existed in a practical setting Batman would hire a PMC and police Gothman as a corpo state

Superman wouldnt have a secret identity for more than a single run.

And the Flash would mostly use his superpowers to get to work on time and have a human sleeping schedule, since violent crime is honestly quite rare. He'd basically do one thing a week unless he was willing to respond to emergencies nationally. Barry is kinda too nice to deal with the American criminal justice system.

Heroism is by definition extraordinary behavior outside the expected bounds of practicality. People who engage in heroics regularly are people with bad or non existent standard procedures for dealing with a crisis. Or more succinctly, they are short sighted and poor planners, elsewise they'd be professionals.

Batman is the cat with a piece of toast strapped to his back of superheros... A plan and tool for every conceivable situation, that he's just not shared with anyone else
 
Breadnaught said:
Atlantean Moses
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Well, doesn't Atlantis hate Poseidon?

Otherwise not sure what other God he could be serving.

I_S said:
seek to inspire others
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Batman purpose is outright stated to scare criminals away from crime... And it didn't really work.

Gotham crime got WORSE, sure he got rid of almost all the Mafia, but it got replaced by crazies like the Joker, Scarecrow, Two Face, the Riddler and so on.
 
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Darko said:
Not sure why they'd do that since their capital is named after him.

I don't think Arion is really into serving gods.
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I'm not sure but I think that comment might be a reference to Aquaman's feud with Poseidon and his son Triton in the comics.

Aquaman ended up killing Triton (after he attacked Atlantis and mass murdered who knows how many Atlanteans), and Poseidon and Aquaman truly loathe each other.

When Triton killed Poseidon Aquaman went to Hades and convinced him to resurrect Poseidon playing off of that fact. "If you resurrect Poseidon because I asked, Poseidon will know for the rest of eternity that he owes his life to someone he truly hates and who hates him."

Hades "Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."

So apparently Hades thinks Poseidon is an annoying asshole too.

Dolphin and Garth were not impressed with this plan. "You let Triton murder you on the off chance that some ancient surface myth was actually true? What the ever loving @#$#$, Arthur!"
 
Pinklestia said:
Batman purpose is outright statde to scare criminals away from crime... And it didn't really work.

Gotham crime got WORSE, sure he got rid of almost all the Maggia, but it got replaced by crazies like the Joker, Scarecrow, Two Face, the Riddler.
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That's at least debatable, no? He got rid of the most organized crime, the Mafia (Maggia is Marvel, by the way) and corruption. The Police isn't in the criminals' payroll anymore and, besides Arkham, if you go to prison in Blackgate you pay your sentence (unless you get transferred to Belle Reve or for some reason an author needs to pull a criminal out).

There is still petty crime enough to make someone in Metropolis not want to visit, I suppose, and the particular crazy in the city is extreme. But I don't know if I would call that worse.

The main reason Gotham doesn't get better is because of status quo and the most greased revolving door in existance, which is Arkham. Or at least that's how I see it.
 
What does the Light think that "The Screen" provides to the group? Grayven takes credit for all of Lex's assets plus any political influence in the US, Africa and China.
 
Lord Ernest said:
That's at least debatable, no?
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Thanks to the crazies, there is more deaths and there is all the times supervillains hurt the city in ways that before just didn't happen.

The Mafia was a cancer to the city, that's true, but it keep the costumed crazies away. Even if a Joker like criminal had tried things before Batman, the Mafia would just have got him killed.
 
Lord Ernest said:
The main reason Gotham doesn't get better is because of status quo and the most greased revolving door in existance, which is Arkham. Or at least that's how I see it.
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Recent comic suggests that Penguin at least would have gone straight or at least left Gotham if he didn't have something to prove in terms of vengeance against Batman.
 
Uncomplicated Good Works (part 11)
  • Threadmarks
    • 15th December 2012
    08:53 GMT -5

    "So why exactly have you been following Superman around?"

    "That's a fairly deep rabbit hole, Ms. Lane. Are you sure you want to know?"

    She looks unimpressed.

    "I think I'll cope."

    "Alright. I'm trying to learn classical superheroism. I grew up during the dark age of comics, which means that I'm more familiar with grim and gritty superpeople, or deconstructions of classic archetypes. I myself have managed to be merely ruthlessly utilitarian, but I've still killed an awful lot of people."

    "And you want Superman to teach you how to be a real hero?"

    "Ask the people of Tamaran whether or not I'm a real hero. No, I want Superman to teach me… How to be a nice hero."

    "Uh-huh. How's it going?"

    I look up to where Kal-El is sitting on the edge of a building in the Thinker pose, eyes glowering directly at the LexCorp building.

    "I… Think it's going badly wrong." … "Um, can we have a.. private talk about this?"

    "Let's."

    One transition later and we appear in my facility in Bir Tawil.

    15th December 2012
    14:53 GMT +1

    And now she's glaring openly.

    "What did you say to him?"

    "Just… Pointed out the opportunity costs involved with certain forms of… Civic mindedness." Um. "Look this place is pretty secure, but do you want to do this inside..?"

    She strides past me through the heavy metal doors into the interior of the facility. I wince and then follow her, signalling the facility's system to engage intermediate security measures.

    "How bad-?"

    "I have-" She wheels to face me. "-never heard him doubt himself like he did yesterday."

    "Sorry."

    "Then why the hell did you do it?!"

    "Because I wanted to know why he does what he does and it sounds like he just never considered going it a different way. I was.. sort of hoping he had a better reason than that."

    "Jesus."

    "If you're familiar with the Book of Job, I think that the correct Christian response to-."

    "Stop. Talking."

    I raise my right hand towards her, palm facing her. Then I put it over my mouth.

    "Do you really want to see what happens if S-. If Clark adopts your way of doing things?"

    I shake my head.

    "Someone doesn't need to be Thomas Aquinas to be a good person!" I nod. "So what do you want?"

    I stand there for a mom-.

    She rolls her eyes. "You can talk."

    "Have you and him..? Talked about your different lifespans?"

    She breathes in, and then sharply breathes out.

    "Yes. Once. I know that… Forty years from now I'll be an old woman and he'll look pretty much the same. And that in eighty years from now I'll be dead and he'll still look the same."

    "Actually, human women can make a hundred and twenty-."

    "A hundred and ten."

    "Um." Her face hardens. "That too. Um. But… Clark Kent will look the same. People.. will notice. Unless you plan on moving and cutting ties with everyone in ten years or so. Clark Kent… He's always going to be Clark Kent. I mean, his identity. But 'Clark Kent, well-intentioned but bumbling reporter'? That has a lifespan. So in eighty… A hundred years, does he pick a new name and a new town and set up a new secret identity? Or… Something else?"

    "Hooooooo boy."

    "See, this is what I do. What I can't stop doing. Think bloody awkward thoughts and ask bloody awkward questions."

    "He hasn't told me."

    "Think he's.. thought about it?"

    "No."

    "Think he should?"

    "I.. think it can wait. God, I never… I never put it in that sort of perspective."

    "I can Danner you, if you like. That way you can experience it for yourself."

    "Ask me again when I've got grey hair."

    "I can Danner-." She glares, and I think it's supposed to be a fake glare but she isn't quite in the right headspace. "Seriously, though. If it's all about personal connections for him… Small town spirit or… Something, then extending your lifespan could solve some pretty major problems."

    I sigh.

    "Yes. Once. Before you gave me the Danner Formula. We knew that forty years in the future I'd be an old woman he'd look pretty much the same. And that in eighty years I'd be dead and he'd still look the same."

    "Actually, human women can make a hundred and twenty-."

    "A hundred and ten."

    "Um." Her face hardens. "That too."

    "I never asked how long I actually have."

    "No one knows. Hugo Danner is a hundred and twenty, and if he dyed his hair he could pass for forty. So he might die at three hundred, or… Maybe not."

    "And what about Clark?"

    "Karsta Wor-Ul looked old and had arthritis, but she already looked like that when she moved to Earth. I don't know how long kryptonians live under these circumstances."

    "Longer or shorter than three hundred years?"

    "My best guess is a lot longer. And he probably won't look older. People.. will notice. Unless you plan on moving and cutting ties with everyone in ten years or so. Clark Kent… He's always going to be Clark Kent. I mean, his identity. But 'Clark Kent, well-intentioned but bumbling reporter'? That has a lifespan. So in eighty… A hundred years, does he pick a new name and a new town and set up a new secret identity? Or… Something else?"

    "Hooooooo boy."

    "See, this is what I do. What I can't stop doing. Think bloody awkward thoughts and ask bloody awkward questions."

    "He hasn't told me."

    "Think he's.. thought about it?"

    "No."

    "Think he should?"

    "I.. think it can wait. God, I never… I never put it in that sort of perspective. I haven't even thought about it."

    "Oh, you don't have the same problem. I'm a well known crazy transhumanist. It's not strange that I'd offer to augment you. You don't have a secret identity, and you'll age enough that it won't be immediately obvious if you don't want to broadcast it. You'll be 'that reporter with super strength' not 'Superman in hiding'."

    I sigh.

    "Captain Marvel once told me that he wouldn't be able to cope with being Captain Marvel all the time. I don't know if I could cope with not being Orange Lantern all the time. No, I know I can't; I tried taking a month off with my girlfriend and we spent nearly all of it working."

    "No one's obliged to be Thomas Aquinas. I was just hoping that he'd worked out a sensible cut off point. And… Why that point is where it is. But the more you know about, the more you see you could do… I'm sorry, this was a bad idea. Please, thank Kal-El for putting up with me. I'll go and bother someone else."

    "Yeah. You do that."

    15th December 2012
    09:02 GMT -5

    The LexCorp receptionist passes me the phone handset.

    "Orange Lantern. What can I do for you?"

    "Mister Luthor, I need to warn you about something."

    "And what would that be?"

    "I accidentally messed up Superman's head, and… I might have persuaded him to adopt a more pragmatic mindset."

    "I see."

    "So if you could just minimise the provocation until I've fixed this..?"

    …

    I hear the phone click as he puts it down.
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    In wince and then
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    "I wince"

    Mr Zoat said:
    Do you really want to see what happens if S-. If Clark adopts your way of doing things?"
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    Hello Justice Lords.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "I can Danner you, if you like. That way you can experience it for yourself
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    He already gave her the formula.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "Mister Luthor, I need to warn you about something."

    "And what would that be?"

    "I accidentally messed up Superman's head, and… I might have persuaded him to adopt a more pragmatic mindset."

    "I see."

    "So if you could just minimise the provocation until I've fixed this
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    Yeah, that bald head really is a distinctive target for laser eyes.
     
    Do Danner enhanciles have lifespans equal to Kryptonians? Iirc it's something like 3x a normal human's.
     
    So from a narrative perspective, why exactly was it decided to skip over the entire background of this most recent chapter? You know. The very conversation which somehow broke Superman and got him to reconsider his entire perspective on reality? The one where OL feels like he needs to actually warn Lex Luthor

    It feels like the story jumped ahead in a way that didn't do it any favors because it's choosing to gloss over the parts which set up the most recent chapter and somehow justify Superman allegedly changing his perspective. Skipping over it introduces any number of questions that feel glaring if unanswered.

    Idk. I don't think the jump ahead did the story any favors, and in fact creates more problems than it...I don't know, solves? If there were any problems which needed to be solved by excluding those scenes to begin with.
     
    AR760 said:
    So from a narrative perspective, why exactly was it decided to skip over the entire background of this most recent chapter? You know. The very conversation which somehow broke Superman and got him to reconsider his entire perspective on reality? The one where OL feels like he needs to actually warn Lex Luthor
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    Didn't we see that conversation? Just the idea that the universe is big and that superman could likely save millions of lifes with an hour's work in many parts of the universe, but if he gets to doing that then he is doing it 24/7.

    Basically OL asked Superman how he manages his work life balance because OL can't manage it.
     
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    Mr Zoat said:
    "But all those children might have gotten electrocuted due to their own foolishness while I was busy saving billions. So what's next?"
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    AR760 said:
    So from a narrative perspective, why exactly was it decided to skip over the entire background of this most recent chapter? You know. The very conversation which somehow broke Superman and got him to reconsider his entire perspective on reality? The one where OL feels like he needs to actually warn Lex Luthor

    It feels like the story jumped ahead in a way that didn't do it any favors because it's choosing to gloss over the parts which set up the most recent chapter and somehow justify Superman allegedly changing his perspective. Skipping over it introduces any number of questions that feel glaring if unanswered.

    Idk. I don't think the jump ahead did the story any favors, and in fact creates more problems than it...I don't know, solves? If there were any problems which needed to be solved by excluding those scenes to begin with.
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    I mean you don't need Zoat to make a play by play recount of the conversation when the last sentence of the chapter tells us the angle of attack Paul probably used.

    Clark probably tried to counter the argument with his brand of earnest and Paul may have thrown a tangent about Roanoke Island and the Sheeda invasión and how Clark could have saved more lives if he had altered his priorities a little, then Clark probably went silent because he realized Paul was right and he would have saved a lot more people... Heck Superman being based on a single city in the US probably fucked his world view even more because he likely has failed to respond to emergencies in other countries (earthquakes, floods, etc) while he was busy saving cats from trees in metropolis.
     
    Took me a bit to find it, but here's where Lois was said to be Dannered:
    Mr Zoat said:
    It's completely inappropriate, but I can't help but smile. And Ms Lane looks a little too curious at my reaction.

    "Um." I clear my throat. "You ever thought about getting superpowers yourself?"
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    Mr Zoat said:
    "Overgirl comes from a parallel universe where the fascists won the Second World War using alien technology. We're trying-"

    "You're trying."

    "-to talk her around and so's Superman, actually."

    Winning quite a lot of points from me there, actually. Not that he's likely to ever use them without prompting. Can't be because I Dannered Lois…
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    Paul asked her if she wanted super powers, a couple chapters later in the same episode he says that he gave her the Danner formula.
     
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