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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Maybe Mr Zoat decided to make them one?
Which would be fine.

But how would LePaul know that Mr Zoat changed them to run that way?


Replying to Vaermina.
In Egyptian myth she goes on a rampage that comes close to killing all of mankind until she is tricked into getting drunk which calms her down. So even if he had no idea that she would go from being Sekhmet to Bast? It's still a good bet that getting her tipsy would calm her down.
In that myth it took an entire lake filled with divinely created beer to get her drunk enough to calm down.
 
there is a lot of prejudice by mostly euro descendent people that the Aztec gods were "worse" than those from the old continent. just because afro Eurasia had the great fortune to have the easiest animals to domesticate and were able to climb the civilization ladder doesn't mean we should in any way say their origin myths were better. all of the pantheons that predate modern Christianity even ancient Christianity had nasty and bloodthirsty mythology.

Mostly true but also inaccurate, pretty much all ancient Pagan Religion had some human sacrifice (willing or otherwise) in some form. But the people of Mesoamerica went to war often specifically to capture high ranking men to sacrifice to the gods, I think there is more evidence for human sacrifice in Meso-American Religions, it is known from their own holy texts and surviving writings that the Aztecs saw their gods (especially those of the Sun and Rain) as needing to feed on human blood/lives in a way that is in no other mythology I can remember coming across in all my reading on various mythologies.
Archeologists have found the skull racks and other evidence to prove that the Aztec religion ran on blood shed much more than most. That's not even going into things like Cannibalism or how they got the boys offered to Tlāloc to cry. The best guess is that it was part of how the Aztecs kept their empire together and subject populations under control.
As for early Christianity? Yes, Christian myths and stories had some pretty nasty or even bloodthirsty bits (even discounting the Old Testament which wasn't originally part of the "bible") that was simply mythology, as far as I know God/Yahweh has only even asked for human sacrifice once and even then that was a test to see if Abraham would go through with it. Christianity has never even really endorsed animal sacrifice.

that is an interpretation by DC, War and Sun yes, but not Human Sacrifice as far as I know.

From the link:
 
Wait didn't Paul become head cobra after ganking cobra Cult leader?
Maybe he should visit aztec land after all.
 
My head is still snake-shaped, best the rest of my body-.
'but'?
I wasn't sure exactly what affect restoring Adom would have on the domain of the Kahndaqi gods, but it looks like a positive one."
'effect'?
My advise would be to turn down direct inclusion now that you've got another option, but be open to cooperation.
'advice'?
It seems that pantheon of the Aztecs have undergone a similar rebirth to the pantheon of Kahndaq.
'the pantheon'?

I'm liking how this divine rabbit hole seems to just get deeper the further they go. Now we've got the Celts, the Kahndaqi, potentially the Sumerians and the Aztecs involved.
 
There is one god im the Aztec Pantheon that people should be happy about. Quetzalcoatl. Though he isn't just an Aztec god, he was worshipped through out all of Mesoamerica. If any god in that region can considered a good person, its him. Some sects of Christianity have put forward that he and Jesus are the same people, so that should tell you something.
 
https://dcanimatedmovieuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Mictlantecuhtli

It'd be funny if this guy makes a future appearance now. Mictlantecuhtli would be good to see, even if it's just for a single chapter.
I don't really think I could do his comic appearence justice. His fight with the demons? In the comics it wasn't even close. They were destroyed. And that's not taking into account that when he wanted to see what sort of person John was, he time travelled around his life, killing everyone in John's vicinity.
 
I don't really think I could do his comic appearence justice. His fight with the demons? In the comics it wasn't even close. They were destroyed. And that's not taking into account that when he wanted to see what sort of person John was, he time travelled around his life, killing everyone in John's vicinity.

Also in the comics, the holy water had no effect on Mictlantecuhtli whatsoever. John explicitly notes that while it forms an impenetrable barrier to the demons he lured to the church, as far as Mictlantecuhtli is concerned, it's just water.
 
I don't think that I should mention that the same technique that has allowed her to taste for the first time in millennia can also be used to share other sensations is really a topic for the breakfast table.
This sentence looks awkward. Either just "I don't think that I should mention that X" or "I don't think that X is really a topic for the breakfast table" works, but not together.
Or maybe it was intended as "I don't think that I should mention that X, as it is not really a topic for the breakfast table"?

With that out of the way, is this a third Paul that got personal experience with kitty titties now?
 
And I've just spotted Cernunnos behind her and the deer-man appears to want me to avoid angering the lioness-woman. Yes, obviously

I mean, you have a habit of missing the obvious.

The advantage of modern communications technology. She doesn't need to displace Allah from Kahndaq. A few worshippers here and there will be plenty to keep her in good condition

And with how many more people there are, even if they have a fraction of the world's population worshipping them it would still rival their old numbers.

And with Adom fighting the Anti-Life, there are bound to be more.

"I had a few ideas about speeding that up

That idea Lady Liberty gave you about a pantheon cooperation.

"That's a sensible idea, but I wasn't referring to them. It seems that the pantheon of the Aztecs have undergone a similar rebirth to the pantheon of Kahndaq. Do you know anything about that

Hmm, maybe with the Accala rising in power there's been a resurgence in old South American religions.
 
as far as I know God/Yahweh has only even asked for human sacrifice once and even then that was a test to see if Abraham would go through with it. Christianity has never even really endorsed animal sacrifice.
Really? never really endorsed animal sacrifice? even though the predecesor did this anually? they did, it just got less needed or they changed due to famines and stuff, it wasn't something that they just decided because now they had Jesus. Also, I think torture and killing to please god no matter the situation should count as Human Sacrifice (the witch hunts *wink**wink**nudge**nudge*)

From the link:
again, this is DC's interpretation, maybe this is official for this story but in reality there was no "god of human sacrifice" Huitzilopochtli is god of passion, will, SACRIFICE, sport, feats of endurance, and most importantly the SUN. so Sacrifice, not "Human Sacrifice" like "Jesus died for us" sacrifice AND sacrifice to the gods but not just Human Sacrifice
 
Replying to Vaermina,
But in DC the two are always portrayed as two different gods..

So LePaul would have no way to know or even suspect that was an option.

Maybe Mr Zoat decided to make them one?

Replying to Vaermina.
In Egyptian myth she goes on a rampage that comes close to killing all of mankind until she is tricked into getting drunk which calms her down. So even if he had no idea that she would go from being Sekhmet to Bast? It's still a good bet that getting her tipsy would calm her down.

Which would be fine.

But how would LePaul know that Mr Zoat changed them to run that way?

Because the joke he made that she is mad about mentioned it? And you can find that joke one post above the story.

"Ooh. Right. Amazons. Got it. I think Sekhmet's single." A splutter. "You know, if gods aren't her thing. She's got a bit of a temper, but get some beer in her and she's a real pussycat."

Let me reiterate he Literaryly and Literally set this up years ago.

but get some beer in her and she's a real pussycat."

This is one of the things I love about this story, small things that are set up well in advance become relevant much later and you can trace the through line.

Yes, just as many seemingly large things get lost but, that's the trade off on a ten year old one man project.
 
Really? never really endorsed animal sacrifice?

Yes, It was one of the man reasons for the Epistles in the Bible, converted Jews were still use to performing sacrifices and the apostles had to explain that those were no longer needed,
1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 ​For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 ​But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 ​For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

even though the predecesor did this anually?

These were sacrifices to turn the minds of the Jews to the coming redeemer, every sacrifice was specifically detailed in exacting detail of what they were to be and how they were to be killed. With the most common being The Passover lamb, or goat, which must be unblemished, one year old and male. The sacrifice had several steps to be fulfilled to match the greater sacrifice that was to come.
All of it. Seriously it's called the book of Laws.

it wasn't something that they just decided because now they had Jesus.

Actually, that's exactly why the sacrifices stopped. When the Lamb of God came into the world and took on the sins of all humanity then died to bring about life everlasting the need for sacrifices in similitude ended for the true sacrifice had been done.
11 ​But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 ​Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 ​For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 ​How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 ​And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Also, I think torture and killing to please god no matter the situation should count as Human Sacrifice (the witch hunts *wink**wink**nudge**nudge*)

No that is Human evil that should be condemned, and was never done at the desire of God.


All quotes are from https://www.biblegateway.com/
 
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Yes, It was one of the man reasons for the Epistles in the Bible, converted Jews were still use to performing sacrifices and the apostles had to explain that those were no longer needed,
1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 ​For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 ​But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 ​For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.



These were sacrifices to turn the minds of the Jews to the coming redeemer, every sacrifice was specifically detailed in exacting detail of what they were to be and how they were to be killed. With the most common being The Passover lamb, or goat, which must be unblemished, one year old and male. The sacrifice had several steps to be fulfilled to match the greater sacrifice that was to come.
All of it. Seriously it's called the book of Laws.



Actually, that's exactly why the sacrifices stopped. When the Lamb of God came into the world and took on the sins of all humanity then died to bring about life everlasting the need for sacrifices in similitude ended for the true sacrifice had been done.
11 ​But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 ​Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 ​For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 ​How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 ​And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.



No that is Human evil that should be condemned, and was never done at the desire of God.


All quotes are from https://www.biblegateway.com/
I'm sorry but you are literally ascribing history to a mythology book, the bible is not historically accuarte and as such hearsay not history. Also you are also saying that GOD didn't want us to sacrifice and if you are serious about this you are skipping the part where GOD should not enter this, because for all you know the Aztecs GOD also did not want this. this is going to be my last comment on this because the majority of people are christian and as such can be offended by this but GOD is not historical and I was arguing a historical point.
 
But today I only seek two things; a message
: instead of ;

Inconsistent, unless that's intentional.

whatever passes for her blood steam.
bloodstream

Is the colour-and-font change here intentional, and if so, what does it signify?
Probably Sekhmet exerting some influence on her domain to keep things working as normal instead of letting the attention of people nearby get drawn to the scuffle.
 
"That's a sensible idea, but I wasn't referring to them. It seems that the pantheon of the Aztecs have undergone a similar rebirth to the pantheon of Kahndaq. Do you know anything about that?"

Could this be related to the tribes in Brazil? They're out of the proper Aztec range but that's the only loosely-related change I could think of. It seems unlikely they'd have a spontaneous renaissance off-screen.

my money is on Feathered Serpent, an All-Star Squadron villain that's essentially Aztec Captain Marvel. No magic words required as far as I know, however. ACHMQTT would probably be it from looking at the listed gods.

I guess if he made himself useful against the Sheeda that might work for this purpose?
 
I'm sorry but you are literally ascribing history to a mythology book, the bible is not historically accuarte and as such hearsay not history. Also you are also saying that GOD didn't want us to sacrifice and if you are serious about this you are skipping the part where GOD should not enter this, because for all you know the Aztecs GOD also did not want this. this is going to be my last comment on this because the majority of people are christian and as such can be offended by this but GOD is not historical and I was arguing a historical point.

A man named Jesus lived in the times between 1AD and 36AD.
Bart Ehrman (a secular agnostic) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees, based on certain and clear evidence." B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged: Writing in the Name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. pp. 256–257
Robert M. Price (a Christian atheist) who denies the existence of Jesus agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars: Robert M. Price "Jesus at the Vanishing Point" in The Historical Jesus: Five Views edited by James K. Beilby & Paul Rhodes Eddy, 2009 InterVarsity, ISBN 0830838686 p. 61
Jesus Now and Then by Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould (1 April 2004) ISBN 0802809774 p. 34 "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church's imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more. There's a lot of evidence for his existence."
He had followers that wrote to each other explaining their internal beliefs and teachings between 36AD and 100AD.
'After examining the texts myself, I must conclude with the majority of scholars that it is impossible to establish the dependence of Luke-Acts on the Antiquitates. What is clear is that Luke-Acts and Josephus shared some common traditions about the recent history of Palestine.', Sterling, 'Historiography and Self-Definition: Josephus, Luke-Acts, and Apologetic Historiography', Supplements to Novum Testamentum, pp. 365–366 (1992). Brill.
A Historical Evaluation of the Evidence for the Death of the Apostles as Martyrs for Their Faith this is 481 pages and is well documented on the possibility of them living and speaking to followers at that time
Leviticus is a book, and some Jews still follow what is written there including trying to resume the sacrifices stated there.
Shargai, Nadav; Barkat, Amiram (2007-02-04), "Court prevents groups from sacrificing live animals at Temple Mount", Haaretz, retrieved 2008-10-07
"Rabbis aim to renew animal sacrifices", Jerusalem Post, 2007-02-28, archived from the original on 2012-01-11, retrieved 2008-10-07

So yes the Bible is a historical record that also contains religious teachings. You can choose not accept the teachings, but not the records that are corroborated by other sources.

If you want to continue to declare it is "a mythology book" please be consistent and accept that the writings of the Aztecs on there gods are just as "mythological" and since they believed their kings were gods therefore they did not exist.
 
This sentence looks awkward. Either just "I don't think that I should mention that X" or "I don't think that X is really a topic for the breakfast table" works, but not together.
Or maybe it was intended as "I don't think that I should mention that X, as it is not really a topic for the breakfast table"?
Thank you, corrected.
Is the colour-and-font change here intentional, and if so, what does it signify?
Yes. Sekhmet hit him hard enough to overwhelm his zone of control.
: instead of ;
Inconsistent, unless that's intentional.
bloodstream.
Thank you, corrected.
 
If you want to continue to declare it is "a mythology book" please be consistent and accept that the writings of the Aztecs on there gods are just as "mythological" and since they believed their kings were gods therefore they did not exist.

I don't really care about the rest of this argument, and the other guy is being a bit cringe about their points from what little I read, but this point is kind of stupid. Like, by that same logic you could argue most European monarchs didn't exist/rule because The Divine Right Of Kings was a thing based on their preferred deity "giving" them the right to rule.

Not exactly the same obviously, but if a connection to the divine, real or not, is the disqualifier for existence then, uh, we've got a bigger problem than which gods where or weren't assholes.
 
My first thought is that the Aztecs are inspired by Adom's success and are creating a new Tezumak to be their champion, and are perhaps looking to form a League of Divine Champions with Adom as a member.

Certainly lot of DC heroes that could qualify- Adom, Tezumak, Olympian, Son of Vulcan, Celestial Archer, Diana of course, Isis, Captain Thunder, Anansi, and one of the Black Condors, off the top of my head.
 
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But in DC the two are always portrayed as two different gods..

So LePaul would have no way to know or even suspect that was an option.
He clearly knew way back when he made the joke that pissed her off. Its not like this comes out of left field. The time for bitching about this particular bit of meta knowledge was some years back.
 
Wait Time (part 18)
17th February 2013
14:58 GMT


Aztec… No? I mean, I wouldn't be astonished to learn that some of the Sons of Dawn picked up… Parts of their religion, but I can't see Hugo bringing back the more murderous parts of the religion. Most of his people have Euanthe as the most prominent deity, with various elemental beings becoming background figures. Some of those are loosely related to figures from old South American religions, but I don't… Think there's anything that could cause a change like this.

"That's news to me, oh Bast. Ah."

I mean, there's… Aztek, but I haven't seen any sign of him around. His secret society might still be active, but they're secret. And so far as I remember they don't really do anything like the old version of the religion. It's a little difficult to cut peoples' hearts out heroically.

"May I ask how they managed that?"

"No, but Tlazolteotl hasn't looked as good as she does now for… Longer than I can remember."

Something like that couldn't happen without Zauriel noticing, right? I mean, I wouldn't mind if people switched to worshipping the Aztec gods as long as everybody's hearts remained where they are…

"What did she ask of you?"

"That I visit her realm with a few friends. A peaceful visit between pantheons squeezed out by monotheism."

"I don't know enough about the Aztecs to suggest anything. Though I am a little surprised by the timing. I don't think there's been any sort of resurgence in their worship on Earth."

"Then perhaps I should see for myself. Now that I have the power to have choices again, I enjoy using it."

"Uh, Sekhmet seemed annoyed about my suggestion that she replace Ares in the Olympian pantheon."

Bast blinks. "Did she say why?"

"She thought that I was trying to prostitute her and that I was making inappropriate cat jokes."

"I think that she's still annoyed about not getting to offer her power to Teth Adom. Granting him her stamina, strength or speed would have been a great advantage to us both."

"How do I calm her down?"

"You do what you did. I am her when calm. But perhaps a gift would not go amiss, delivered by messenger just in case."

"Thank you. I'll do-."

"Ah." Kon takes a half-step towards her. "So, Nuala? Are you okay with us questioning people?"

Bast considers him for a moment, tail waving back and forth.

"The covenant between man and cat is long since broken. But cat-spirits of all kinds come to my city, and they know where their dishes are filled. And they share what they see."

"And are you going to share with us?"

Her eyes narrow slightly, her left ear flicking. "They don't have cats on Krypton, do they?"

Kon thinks for a moment. "I mean, not any more."

Her ears flap, and she looks towards the steps. "And speaking of broken covenants…"

A large black cat walks up the steps, calmly looking us over before turning its attention to Bast. "I did what you asked."

"You did what I paid you for and used it as an excuse to entertain yourself. But if you want to stay in my realm, then you will take them to the ones the elves spoke to."

The panther's tail jerks from side to side. "Perhaps I don't."

"Oh goddess, is this creature annoying you? Because a little orange light makes all creatures more obedient."

The panther bears its teeth and crouches slightly.

"Oh don't even. You threw your weight around when you could, and now someone else is doing the same you're acting like it's inherently unreasonable. You can deal it but not take it."

Kon shakes his head, turning to Bast. "Have you ever considered getting a dog? Loyalty's, like, their defining trait. I got a wolf, and she's great."

"Those appear to be your choices." Bast walks right up to the panther, forcing it to crane its neck to maintain eye contact. "Do as I ask, be controlled, or be replaced. You may choose as you like. Now."

The panther holds out for a moment, then cringes, tail going down and teeth being once more covered by gums.

"I will obey."

"Good." Bast's eyes flash and the panther twitches, blinking rapidly. "My agents have shown you where to go. Take them there, guide them, and make it clear that anyone who doesn't answer promptly will earn my ire."

"I will."

Bast turns back to us, head held high. "You two are interesting mortals. I expect to see you again when this is over."

Kon and I bow politely, then walk over to where the clearly unhappy panther is waiting for us. Cernunnos joins us a moment later as Bast returns to her recliner and starts licking her right hand.

"I'm sorry. Sekhmet was out when I arrived. She said that I smelled too much like food to talk to."

"Not a problem."

I consider making a 'pussycat' comment, but decide against it.

"Do you know what triggers the transformation in the other direction? I'd like to avoid it."

"She can trigger it voluntarily. The only other thing that I've seen trigger it is the scent of fresh blood."

"Don't bleed." I nod. "Good plan."

"Hey, ah…" Kon walks closer to the panther, which ignores him. "I'm Superboy."

"I don't care. I do this on sufferance." The panther turns away from the main thoroughfare and into a smaller alley. "The elves have spoken to many people, and as Bast has shown them to me so I will show them to you."

"Thanks. Look, I think we got off on the wrong foot. Orange Lantern can get a bit…" He glances back at me. "Demanding when he gets stressed. Can we pay you back for this?"

"I've never eaten a member of your species before. Leave me your arm when you go, and I will be content."

Kon glances at me. Hm. Well, I can't easily cut his arm off or replace it, but I can synthesise a new arm and leave that. I nod.

"Sure. I can do something like that. So who are we going to see?"
 
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