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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

I'm not sure that Starfire even exists in this setting. I don't remember any Earth 12 story -animated or comic- with her in it. Nightwing was certainly single when he showed up in the comics as an older man.

There's a Throw Away Line in an episode of Static Shock where Batman visits. He gets asked about where Robin is and states that he's 'Off With The Titans' , which is about the only proof that the Titans exist in the DCAU. This doesn't give us a team roster, but there is another scene in JLU where Speedy visits with Green Arrow in the middle of a fight, and he's dressed the same and shares voice actors with the version that was in the Titans cartoon. This is not even close to enough to infer anything really, at the time of the cross over I THINK Batman was on to Tim Drake Robin, but can't really say with any certainty. These were mostly Tip of the Hat references to the other shows by animators and writers. But hey, they're canon.

This info is mostly from listening to the ranting of Titans fans trying to iron out which Robin is in that show, and who the character Red X is in relation to him. Since I'm pretty sure none of the other Robins made a successful relationship with Starfire in the other media, I'd say they got the Grayson version over there.

Personal Head Canon for me is a bit like how Young Justice treats the Green Lantern cartoon.....broad strokes of the story are treated as sharing the same universe. So I'd say something possibly resembling the Teen Titans cartoon happened off screen in DCAU....they just never talk about it.
 
To borrow a line from Red Letter Media: who was the main character of A New Hope? And who was the main character of Phantom Menace?
Luke for ANH, and I think if you want to use a traditional view, QGJ for TPM. However, I don't think TPM had, or needed a main character. It was an ensemble, and worked well for it.
 
I like some stuff represented in those movies, I like the ideas and the worldbuilding presented in the prequels, I like plenty of the characters and the broad strokes of their stories.

I respect your right to your opinion and your preferences. However, with all due respect, that opinion is garbage and they're bad movies.
Yes, but you only think that because you have a trash opinion.
 
Luke for ANH, and I think if you want to use a traditional view, QGJ for TPM. However, I don't think TPM had, or needed a main character. It was an ensemble, and worked well for it.
It's not Qui-Gon, because he doesn't undergo any character growth. No arc. He's the same person at the start that he is when he dies.
 
I don't know, all of this stuff declaring the actions of the police and DA to be illegal seems to be built around a heap of assumptions on what the law looks like 40 years in the future.

Wynne can huff around and complain all he wants, but if the state and city courts of Gotham don't share the views of his lawyers, he may be shit out of luck. He himself called Gotham a cyberpunk dystopia, and they aren't known to take an expansive view of people's rights.
 
I don't know, all of this stuff declaring the actions of the police and DA to be illegal seems to be built around a heap of assumptions on what the law looks like 40 years in the future.

Wynne can huff around and complain all he wants, but if the state and city courts of Gotham don't share the views of his lawyers, he may be shit out of luck. He himself called Gotham a cyberpunk dystopia, and they aren't known to take an expansive view of people's rights.
You may assume that a man heavily involved in the peaceful application of supervillain technology for the entire intervening time and who has very expensive lawyers on call is mostly going to know what the law is.
 
You may assume that a man heavily involved in the peaceful application of supervillain technology for the entire intervening time and who has very expensive lawyers on call is mostly going to know what the law is.
Even expensive lawyers don't mostly know what the law is.

That's why they have armies of Paralegal's. :p This joke is for all you paralegals out there.
 
Local Laws are fairly slow to change, State and Federal ones even more so, and the international agreements on human rights are pretty hard to get changed at all. (enforcement is a whole other problem, but that heads into some of the site rules for discussions)

We still use case law that is, in some situations, several Centuries old. I ended up doing a small bit of research regarding the legal protections that were granted to those seeking asylum in a place of worship a while back. The case law still on the books in the UK was referencing the killing of an escaped prisoner from the Tower of London, whom made it to Westminster Abby, in 1378.
 
Assumed Bruce would have told her or after Peter's office called her husband's office she would have known. Probably not gonna be happy about feeling getting jumped like that when she realizes that 2 people should have been aware and told her.

Old Bruce was an even more massive bastard the Younger version.

It's not Qui-Gon, because he doesn't undergo any character growth. No arc. He's the same person at the start that he is when he dies.

Qui-Gon didn't need an arc, a character arc would only have diminished him.
 
Reconstruction (part 9)
5th March 2013
08:05 GMT +3


Yes, that's definitely the place where Themyscira isn't.

The waves lap gently below me as I stare at the sea.

It's not even as if the island was ripped off the bedrock. Examining the sea floor… If not for the fact that I've been here before and I can compare the shapes that the flows of the water have dug into the sub-aquatic detritus to what used to be there. The water is flowing differently now that the islands aren't there, but I can see where things have started shifting.

And down, down in the deeper parts, I can see Scylla.

It's a little like a magic eye picture. Scylla is so big that I spent a little while trying to work out how an aquatic mountain that shape could have formed there, and that's with power ring scans. Something about her nature makes her respond in an irregular way to scans. Either that or I just can't get my head around the idea of a creature that big.

Fortunately, she's not doing much, and I don't think that poking her and saying 'are you okay?!' would help the situation. Instead, I fabricate a monitoring drone and set it loose. Any change in the position of that giant pile of supernatural meat, it'll ping-

I frown as I notice a winged shape to the west.

-me. Yes, we're not far from the harpy's home islands here, but it's not exactly a short flight and-.

And she's wallowing in the air. I transition closer and create a perch for her.

"You're a way from-"

She starts, blinks, focuses on me and… And smiles.

"Pavlos!"

That's… Rather nice.

"-home. What brings you here?"

She holds her wings open while she checks my construct, harpy flight being more about using magic to manipulate air currents than about raw muscle. Satisfied, she flaps down and locks her claws around the perch.

"I need to talk to Princess Diana."

"She's…"

Her eyes widen. "Has she died?"

"No, no, but she's pretty busy. Is there anything I can do? Ah, how is everyone?"

"Yes! Yes! I need-. My brother."

"Okay, what does he look like?"

"No, he-. The great misery. When everyone..."

"It was the same everywhere."

"It did something else to him. And now it is gone, he blames himself for what it made him do. But if it was the same everywhere then it was not his fault! You can tell him!"

Yes, I can, but depending on what the Anti-Life did to him, he might not listen.

"I can certainly try. Can you take me to him?"

"Um." She flaps her wings lethargically, and winces. "Could I rest here for a moment?"

"You're from Santorini?" She nods. "I'll take us back."

Ring, plot course.

Compliance.

"Stand by for transition. Three-."

"Transition?" She frowns. "Like a play?"

"Yes. Our surroundings will be one thing one moment, and another thing the next. You shouldn't feel anything, but if you do then tell me immediately, alright?"

She nods.

"Three, two, one."

The sea where Themyscira should be vanishes, and is replaced by the island of Santorini. From what I can see the harpies have either carried on or gone back to their usual way of life. An advantage of a simple existence is that each part isn't dependent on a hundred other things happening just so. The only change I can see from my last visit -aside from the absence of the cruise liner- is that they've built a small jetty.

I frown as I try to work out how they could have done that with foot claws and without… They wouldn't even have saw blades. I could see them making a raft and anchoring it, but those are clearly sawn planks.

"Oh! The water-path! Yes, some humans from Greece built it, so they would have somewhere to tie their boat when they visit!"

"Why were there humans here?"

"They were sent by the ruler of Greece. They want to be able to talk to us regularly to make sure there aren't any more problems."

I nod. "How often do they visit?"

"In spring and in autumn."

Huh. A bit odd they bothered building a jetty, but maybe they wanted a boat big enough to make the trip at least somewhat comfortable, rather than a small boat it was practical to drag up the beach? We're not that close to the mainland here. Good on the Greek government for being proactive. Maybe they thought that they could charge extra for taking a select few tourists here?

"That way." She gestures with her wing towards a barren hillside. "There's a cave in the cliff. He's been living there."

"Rightoh."

I fly us in that direction, waving at a small flock who are out fishing for breakfast. Taking a look… Hm. I can see the residue of the Life Entity's touch, but more than that, the Anti-Life doesn't appear to have penetrated all that deeply into their psyches. And now I'm remembering my college psychology textbook, the part about under and over social regulation. The harpies know that the rest of the world exists, but they don't really interact with it. So the only culture they have is their own. The only lifestyle they know is their own.

Reject humanity. Return to birdie.

Scan-. Yeah. He's in there, lurking in the back. It's not a very deep cave, and if I'm reading his physiology right he's got absolutely no intention of attacking anyone.

"I assume that you've tried talking to him."

"Yes! And so has our younger brother and our parents."

"Alright." I lower the construct she's standing on onto one of the rocks outside. "I think I should talk to him on my own, so if you could just wait out here?"

She nods and hops off, claws clacking against the rocks as she grips them.

"What's his name?"

"His name is Dorian."

"Thank you." I land and walk over to the cave entrance. "Dorian? It's Orange Lantern. I was here with Diana a couple of years ago?"

My rings shows me him ruffling his wings slightly, but there's no other response.

"I'm coming in."
 
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Dude... Priorities... Getting Themiscara back to its regular position is more important then Harpy consoling...
OL do wat OL want. Is literally whole point of being OL.
Also, he's still working through some really serious shit. What he had to do to Bats might be the first real test of his enlightenment we've seen. Circumstance conspiring to there being one option that he deeply emotionally does NOT want to do, but weighing against a much larger quantity of the more abstract desire of not having his civilization collapse.
 
Woot! Harpy Island, this is a far callback, this is one of the first real victories Paul had in challenging the Face-Puncher Paradigm.

Dude... Priorities... Getting Themiscara back to its regular position is more important then Harpy consoling...

Eh, hes a Orange Lantern. Following minor whims and distractions that catch his attention is part of the package.

Edit: shoot, I didnt mean to gang up on you in a triple reply, sorry about that.
 
That would take communicating with the gods. Until then, he can help with a small matter like this.
So you're saying he should be in Japan right now bargaining with the Shinto pantheons.

Or in the middle of a conversation with Zauriel.

Or dragging Wonder Woman over and having her knock on reality with her Truth powers.
 
5th March 2013
08:05 GMT +3


Yes, that's definitely the place where Themyscira isn't.

The waves lap gently below me as I stare at the sea.
Still not back yet. That's worrying. Could the Olympians have retreated so far that they lost contact with the world and thus couldn't feel when the Anti-Life was repelled? Or has something untowards happened over there to stop them returning, I wonder...

It's not even as if the island was ripped off the bedrock. Examining the sea floor… If not for the fact that I've been here before and I can compare the shapes that the flows of the water have dug into the sub-aquatic detritus to what used to be there. The water is flowing differently now that the islands aren't there, but I can see where things have started shifting.

And down, down in the deeper parts, I can see Scylla.
Yes, despite what some lunatic fringe folks believe, islands do not just float on the ocean, they are the tips of land poking through the waves.
Though I remember an 'Inspector Gadget' episode where MAD had undermined an entire tropical island and planned to collapse the remaining supports so the island would sink and their alpine resort at the top of its mountain would become beach-front property... o_O Despite the fact it probably cost more to mine the island out than they'd make from the relocation. Supervillains!

It's a little like a magic eye picture. Scylla is so big that I spent a little while trying to work out how an aquatic mountain that shape could have formed there, and that's with power ring scans. Something about her nature makes her respond in an irregular way to scans. Either that or I just can't get my head around the idea of a creature that big.

Fortunately, she's not doing much, and I don't think that poking her and saying 'are you okay?!' would help the situation. Instead, I fabricate a monitoring drone and set it loose. Any change in the position of that giant pile of supernatural meat, it'll ping-
Scylla, for the record, is one of the bigger of the ancient Hellenic mythos' large monsters. Along with her gal-pal Charybdis. Wonder what they've been getting up to?

I frown as I notice a winged shape to the west.

-me. Yes, we're not far from the harpy's home islands here, but it's not exactly a short flight and-.
Huh. Must be something important for one of them to come out here.

And she's wallowing in the air. I transition closer and create a perch for her.

"You're a way from-"
'Wallowing' meaning she was struggling to stay aloft. :p Make you own 'I just flew in' jokes.

She starts, blinks, focuses on me and… And smiles.

"Pavlos!"
Ah, one of the ones he met way back when, on his first official cape business.

That's… Rather nice.

"-home. What brings you here?"
You always remember your first case. And sometimes, that first case remembers you.

She holds her wings open while she checks my construct, harpy flight being more about using magic to manipulate air currents than about raw muscle. Satisfied, she flaps down and locks her claws around the perch.

"I need to talk to Princess Diana."
Okay, doable. But maybe it's something OL can handle?

"She's…"

Her eyes widen. "Has she died?"
Come on, girl, she's not that fragile.

"No, no, but she's pretty busy. Is there anything I can do? Ah, how is everyone?"

"Yes! Yes! I need-. My brother."
...Huh. I hadn't considered that they had male harpies. I mean, their young'uns have to come from somewhere, but... Mythologically, they're not known for their roosters.

"Okay, what does he look like?"

"No, he-. The great misery. When everyone..."
I bet it drove them to indulge darker impulses, like the ancient days.

"It was the same everywhere."

"It did something else to him. And now it is gone, he blames himself for what it made him do. But if it was the same everywhere then it was not his fault! You can tell him!"
Huh. Wonder what it was he did? Can't have been anything too bad by the harpies' standards, or they'd have driven him out.

Yes, I can, but depending on what the Anti-Life did to him, he might not listen.

"I can certainly try. Can you take me to him?"
Yes, he may have saved the world. But sometimes, saving one life can be more important.

"Um." She flaps her wings lethargically, and winces. "Could I rest here for a moment?"

"You're from Santorini?" She nods. "I'll take us back."
Ah, one of the prettier corners of the Aegean. Those blue domes...

Ring, plot course.

Compliance.
No point wasting time, or ruffling the lady's feathers.

"Stand by for transition. Three-."

"Transition?" She frowns. "Like a play?"
Heh. It kind of does work that way, doesn't it?

"Yes. Our surroundings will be one thing one moment, and another thing the next. You shouldn't feel anything, but if you do then tell me immediately, alright?"

She nods.
I mean, it's been a long time since anyone had a bad reaction to OL carrying them on an FTL hop.

"Three, two, one."

The sea where Themyscira should be vanishes, and is replaced by the island of Santorini. From what I can see the harpies have either carried on or gone back to their usual way of life. An advantage of a simple existence is that each part isn't dependent on a hundred other things happening just so. The only change I can see from my last visit -aside from the absence of the cruise liner- is that they've built a small jetty.
More than a few such little communities throughout the world will have survived the Anti-Life that way.

I frown as I try to work out how they could have done that with foot claws and without… They wouldn't even have saw blades. I could see them making a raft and anchoring it, but those are clearly sawn planks.

"Oh! The water-path! Yes, some humans from Greece built it, so they would have somewhere to tie their boat when they visit!"
Hopefully not tourists. I doubt the harpies would appreciate the attention.

"Why were there humans here?"

"They were sent by the ruler of Greece. They want to be able to talk to us regularly to make sure there aren't any more problems."
Ah, government monitoring. Not unsurprising after their little hijack hijinks.

I nod. "How often do they visit?"

"In spring and in autumn."
And yet they built a jetty? A simple patrol boat could have sent over a zodiac easily enough.

Huh. A bit odd they bothered building a jetty, but maybe they wanted a boat big enough to make the trip at least somewhat comfortable, rather than a small boat it was practical to drag up the beach? We're not that close to the mainland here. Good on the Greek government for being proactive. Maybe they thought that they could charge extra for taking a select few tourists here?

"That way." She gestures with her wing towards a barren hillside. "There's a cave in the cliff. He's been living there."

"Rightoh."
Ah... Exclusive tourism. Maybe they thought the harpies worked like the female-only types you see in more exotic fiction... Needing men to 'supply' them with chicks... I doubt it, though.

I fly us in that direction, waving at a small flock who are out fishing for breakfast. Taking a look… Hm. I can see the residue of the Life Entity's touch, but more than that, the Anti-Life doesn't appear to have penetrated all that deeply into their psyches. And now I'm remembering my college psychology textbook, the part about under and over social regulation. The harpies know that the rest of the world exists, but they don't really interact with it. So the only culture they have is their own. The only lifestyle they know is their own.
And one the Anti-Life couldn't really interfere with.

Reject humanity. Return to birdie.

Scan-. Yeah. He's in there, lurking in the back. It's not a very deep cave, and if I'm reading his physiology right he's got absolutely no intention of attacking anyone.
Good to know he's not aggressive. Probably the exact opposite, I shouldn't wonder.

"I assume that you've tried talking to him."

"Yes! And so has our younger brother and our parents."
Though depending on what he did, that might be the worst options to have sent in.

"Alright." I lower to construct she's standing on onto one of the rocks outside. "I think I should talk to him on my own, so if you could just wait out here?"

She nods and hops off, claws clacking against the rocks as she grips them.
Such a nice, lively girl.

"What's his name?"

"His name is Dorian."
Surprised they have names (been so long I don't even remember if they had any named back in the day.) But then, they are human-level intellects, and with language comes the desire to name things.

"Thank you." I land and walk over to the cave entrance. "Dorian? It's Orange Lantern. I was here with Diana a couple of years ago?"

My rings shows me him ruffling his wings slightly, but there's no other response.

"I'm coming in."
Sounds like he's not in a happy mood. Thankfully not defensive about his privacy, though.

This may seem pointless to some, but really, is it such a big amount of time out of OL's day? Worst case, he can call it in as a toilet break or something. And who knows what shape this harpy-boy is in? For all we know he could be bubbling with lingering Anti-Life so it's best to check it out. Plus, it's a nice call-back to his early days. x3 Who can pass up friendly harpy folk, after all?
 
This may seem pointless to some, but really, is it such a big amount of time out of OL's day? Worst case, he can call it in as a toilet break or something. And who knows what shape this harpy-boy is in? For all we know he could be bubbling with lingering Anti-Life so it's best to check it out. Plus, it's a nice call-back to his early days. x3 Who can pass up friendly harpy folk, after all?
The last time Paul went on a short pointless errand that delayed him from important things, Manheim ate the entire Mayan pantheon because he was just a few minutes too slow in arriving to the plot location.

The time before that allowed Manheim to weaponize Paul's clones and solidify his hold on Earth.
 
So you're saying he should be in Japan right now bargaining with the Shinto pantheons.

Or in the middle of a conversation with Zauriel.

Or dragging Wonder Woman over and having her knock on reality with her Truth powers.

Or finally teleporting to the universe where he's an evil mind controlling bastard and utterly annihilating that version of him.

Or at least fixing his brain. Still looking forward to that XD
 
Still not back yet. That's worrying. Could the Olympians have retreated so far that they lost contact with the world and thus couldn't feel when the Anti-Life was repelled? Or has something untowards happened over there to stop them returning, I wonder...

They may be extremely worried and don't want to communicate yet because they're worried it's still there.

They could probably sent a scout to see if it's fine, but they may want to wait months at the very least.

Scylla, for the record, is one of the bigger of the ancient Hellenic mythos' large monsters. Along with her gal-pal Charybdis. Wonder what they've been getting up to?

I remember them helping Circe and Johnny Sorrow when they invaded Themyscira.

Yes, he may have saved the world. But sometimes, saving one life can be more important.

Plus it can be good for his mental health.

This may seem pointless to some, but really, is it such a big amount of time out of OL's day? Worst case, he can call it in as a toilet break or something. And who knows what shape this harpy-boy is in? For all we know he could be bubbling with lingering Anti-Life so it's best to check it out. Plus, it's a nice call-back to his early days. x3 Who can pass up friendly harpy folk, after all?

And he can't exactly do much to bring Themyscira back.

He can't contact the gods there and Atlantis is still in quarantine, so he can't get help from there.

But helping a guy with his mental issues is something he can do.
 
Scylla is so big that I spent a little while trying to work out how an aquatic mountain that shape could have formed there, and that's with power ring scans.
Huh, I always thought Scylla wasn't that big and Charybdis was the huge one, but looking at Wikipedia it seems like maybe Charybdis was actually smaller but was just really damn good at drinking water.
 
Maybe it's just me but if we're going to have Paul interact with a lot of minor/civilian based characters I wouldn't mind seeing what happened to the porn actors that worked with Woman Hunter, maybe check up on Holly and Karon since the latter managed to embody a portion of the Anti-Life herself and who knows how the White Light affected her, maybe the clone of Hitler in South America managed to deal with the negative effects to become a local leader of the community. In between meeting with various official or unofficial government leaders Paul gets contacted by people he's briefly met, see how they've managed to cope with the whole situation, compounded by the previous events.
 

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