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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Unreal (part 5)
29th March 2013
17:37 GMT -5


Mr. Queen is still recovering as Batman and Mr. Atom leave the room.

"Ah, what?"

"If governments regain power in their own territories, they may give conflicting instructions-."

"No, no, I get-." He turns to Alan. "Al, you get what I mean, right?"

Alan looks pointedly at me. "I've had a degree of contact with the utilitarian mindset." I shrug, smiling. "I guess Batman's reached the point where he's just tired of fighting the people we're trying to help."

"So did you want more suggestions, or..?"

"No. Were you being serious?"

"Yes. Each of those plans would stop the League undermining the Earth's political system. The alternative is moving towards replacing it."

Alan shakes his head. "I don't think it's that cut and dry, Paul."

"Alright. If an alien fleet entered the system tomorrow, would contact be handled by, A, the United Nations, B, N.A.S.A., C, Roscosmos, or D, the Justice League."

I cross my arms across my chest and raise my eyebrows.

Alan thinks for a moment. "Well, I guess it would be the Justice League, because we're the only ones with faster than light travel, and we're the only ones who could fight them away from the Earth if we had to."

"Oliver?"

"Yeah, I… Get it. And you don't think we can toe the line anymore?"

"I don't think you are toeing the line anymore. You're doing what's right but you don't appreciate what that means." I shrug. "Look, I've clearly set the cat amongst the pigeons, here. Why don't you talk about this with Black Canary and the other League members, and let me know what you decide."

"Because we get a full meeting once a fortnight, if that." He sighs. "I guess board meetings do have a point once in a while. We shoulda spotted this could be a problem."

"Do you need me to put out something clarifying that it's a personal opinion?"

Mr. Queen shakes his head. "No. Al?"

"I don't think it would help." He frowns thoughtfully. "Do you think..? Having one of us stand for office is actually a good idea?"

"I think it would mean that whoever did it wouldn't have the time to be an active superhero anymore. Then you've got the fact that none-." Oh, huh. "That the only member of the League with experience in politics is Icon."

Mr. Queen frowns. "I've dealt with politicians plenty of times."

"Yes, but you've never served in public office or worked in that area. He has. And unless you feel like standing for one of the main two American parties, you'll be limited to local politics because you won't have any support in the legislature. Executive powers only. And if you're thinking about standing in some capacity, talk to Black-"

T-t-t-t-t-t-t-ching! T-t-t-t-t-t-t-ching!

"-Canary first."

Alan generates a rotary phone construct and picks up the handset.

"You've reached Blue Lantern Two Eight One Four." He listens for a moment, then smiles. "Hey, Thana. How have you been?"

Mr. Queen leans a little closer to me. "Who?"

"Priestess of Hades. On that note, do you have a particular religious affiliation?"

"I sit next to an angel during meetings."

"I was on the team with Noriel. That doesn't make me Abrahamic."

"I'm glad to hear it." I frown for a moment, then realise that Alan's talking on the telephone. "Yeah, it was like that all over. Oh? I hadn't realised. No, no, that makes sense. Are you sure-?" He glances at me. "We can probably manage that." He nods. "Okay, I'll see you soon."

He dismisses his construct, and I mentally kick myself for not thinking about Thana before now. There's just… Been so much to do. I haven't even managed to check in on Holly and Karon more than once.

"How is she?"

"Oh, good, good. You got any leads on Themyscira?"

"Not really. I've sort of been assuming that Hephaestaean will send them back now that the Anti-Life has gone, but I don't know why that hasn't happened yet."

"Thana thinks it should still be possible to get there from the Underworld."

I nod. "Should be, but I don't feel like dying to find out."

"Apparently she's got a way in that's not quite as final as that. She wants us to come along."

"I… Can spare the time. Want me to contact Kon, Match and Donna?"

"Yeah, you do that. Ollie, you want in?"

He doesn't look enthusiastic. "I don't think it really matches my skill set. And I need to talk this whole thing over with Dinah."

"If you need someone uninvolved to talk things over with, Doctor Quinzel has a big hole in her schedule."

He looks slightly awkward. "Ah… Dinah…"

I look-. And just about keep myself from laughing. "Seriously?"

"It's not unreasonable."

Alan looks a little lost. "I'd have thought that she'd respect the need for talking through your problems with someone more than anyone."

"Normally she would, but-."

"Blonde women with large breasts are apparently a 'risk factor'."

Alan rolls his eyes, while Mr. Queen shrugs. "I mean, she's got a point. I haven't always been the best boyfriend, and not getting to hang out with women who are 'my type' isn't that big a deal if that's what it takes to convince her I'm committed this time."

I nod. "How are things with Connor?"

"Not great, but-. We're.. talking." He steps away, right hand raised in a half-wave. "Let me know how it goes with the Underworld."

Alan nods. "Sure will. Good luck with coping with ruling the world."

"Yeah, and Dad said I'd never amount to anything."

"Recognised, Green Arrow, zero eight."

"Orange Lantern to Donna. Do you have a moment?"
 
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I'm glad the Themyscira stuff is getting tackled but... if the episode is gonna be focused on that I can't deny that I will be disappointed. Seeing the Justice League discuss their rulership of the world and how they're gonna handle it sounds way more interesting than the Themyscira side-quest, which more than likely will include some unforeseen shenanigans, maybe some enemy conveniently capable of fighting the Illustres and an arrange of other distractions. Besides, the interpersonal dynamics of the Illustres with other Superheroes are always more engaging than the action in the story.
 
29th March 2013
17:37 GMT -5


Mr. Queen is still recovering as Batman and Mr. Atom leave the room.

"Ah, what?"
Is it that hard to understand, Ollie? Consider how fractious some national assemblies are. Now imagine all of them suddenly feeling a little threatened by a bunch of people is colourful costumes and all manner of strange and weird abilities. Now just imagine what their responses might be... Or did you mean Batman?

"If governments regain power in their own territories, they may give conflicting instructions-."

"No, no, I get-." He turns to Alan. "Al, you get what I mean, right?"
Ah, he did indeed mean Batman and his new jewellery.

Alan looks pointedly at me. "I've had a degree of contact with the utilitarian mindset." I shrug, smiling. "I guess Batman's reached the point where he's just tired of fighting the people we're trying to help."

"So did you want more suggestions, or..?"
And frankly, Bruce has probably been having a much harder time of this, because first, he's a relatively ordinary man. A well-trained man, but still a man. And secondly, he's been more or less running the show for two months. With the knowledge that the rest of the team might struggle to equal his strategic skills if he takes a break or was wounded. Just imagine the stress...

"No. Were you being serious?"

"Yes. Each of those plans would stop the League undermining the Earth's political system. The alternative is moving towards replacing it."
None of them are really great plans, but sometimes 'merely decent' is as good as it gets.

Alan shakes his head. "I don't think it's that cut and dry, Paul."

"Alright. If an alien fleet entered the system tomorrow, would contact be handled by, A, the United Nations, B, N.A.S.A., C, Roscosmos, or D, the Justice League."
More than likely choice E: The Sector Green Lanterns. Which rolls back into D, because they're all members of the League.

I cross my arms across my chest and raise my eyebrows.

Alan thinks for a moment. "Well, I guess it would be the Justice League, because we're the only ones with faster than light travel, and we're the only ones who could fight them away from the Earth is we had to."
And with four Lanterns on-world, that's a damn big force projection.

"Oliver?"

"Yeah, I… Get it. And you don't think we can toe the line anymore?"
At this point, Ollie, you guys are drawing the line in some cases.

"I don't think you are toeing the line anymore. You're doing what's right but you don't appreciate what that means." I shrug. "Look, I've clearly set the cat amongst the pigeons, here. Why don't you walk about this with Black Canary and the other League members, and let me know what you decide."

"Because we get a full meeting once a fortnight, if that." He sighs. "I guess board meeting do have a point once in a while. We shoulda spotted this could be a problem."
I'm not so sure. Nearly every Justice League member is an optimistic person deep down, even Batman. Even if he doesn't show it very often... Anyway, I doubt any of them would have realised that they were slowly turning into the de facto government of Earth until someone pointed it out, as OL has...

"Do you need me to put out something clarifying that it's a personal opinion?"

Mr. Queen shakes his head. "No. Al?"
At this stage, even the tabloid news channels are probably howling about it...

"I don't think it would help." He frowns thoughtfully. "Do you think..? Having one of us stand for office is actually a good idea?"

"I think it would mean that whoever did it wouldn't have the time to be an active superhero anymore. Then you've got the fact that none-." Oh, huh. "That the only member of the League with experience in politics is Icon."
That experience being from the post-Civil War Reconstruction era, if I understand it right.

Mr. Queen frowns. "I've dealt with politicians plenty of times."

"Yes, but you've never served in public office or worked in that area. He has. And unless you feel like standing for one of the main two American parties, you'll be limited to local politics because you won't have any support in the legislature. Executive powers only. And if you're thinking about standing in some capacity, talk to Black-"
And intimidating corrupt local politicians certainly doesn't count either.

...Of course Alan's got a classic phone bell for his Ring's 'incoming message' alert.

Alan generates a rotary phone construct and picks up the handset.

"You've reach Blue Lantern Two Eight One Four." He listens for a moment, then smiles. "Hey, Thana. How have you been?"
I do hope she and hers came out of the whole thing well. Wonder how they managed to get through it all? I don't doubt the Themysciran Embassy was a priority target of the Justifiers.

Mr. Queen leans a little closer to me. "Who?"

"Priestess of Hades. On that note, do you have a particular religious affiliation?"
Heh. Given his canonical fate as revealed in the 'Quiver' storyline, he's probably well-set in the Silver City.

"I sit next to an angel during meetings."

"I was on the team with Noriel. That doesn't make me Abrahamic."
And I'm not sure which of the two angels would be easier on the eyes. I mean, Zauriel... x3

"I'm glad to hear it." I frown for a moment, then realise that Alan's talking on the telephone. "Yeah, it was like that all over. Oh? I hadn't realised. No, no, that makes sense. Are you sure-?" He glances at me. "We can probably manage that." He nods. "Okay, I'll see you soon."

He dismisses his construct, and I mentally kick myself for not thinking about Thana before now. There's just… Been so much to do. I haven't even managed to check in on Holly and Karon more than once.
Boy, some friend you are. Then again, they're pretty much safe in Gotham. The rest of the world is still knee-deep in the shit.

"How is she?"

"Oh, good, good. You got any leads on Themyscira?"
Ah, I see Thana is feeling concerned about the silence from Olympus and the Underworld too. Never mind how she feels about her homeland.

"Not really. I've sort of been assuming that Hephaestaean will send them back now that the Anti-Life has gone, but I don't know why that hasn't happened yet."

"Thana thinks it should still be possible to get there from the Underworld."
It's not like the entrance on Themyscira was the only way in, after all...

I nod. "Should be, but I don't feel like dying to find out."

"Apparently she's got a way it that's not quite as final as that. She wants us to come along."
Myths have always had ways into the Underworld from the mortal realms. Sometimes with their own dangers and challenges.

"I… Can spare the time. Want me to contact Kon, Match and Donna?"

"Yeah, you do that. Ollie, you want in?"
I don't know, Alan. He's got a lot of thinking ahead of him...

He doesn't look enthusiastic. "I don't think it really matches my skill set. And I need to talk this whole thing over with Dinah."

"If you need someone uninvolved to talk things over with, Doctor Quinzel has a big hole in her schedule."
...Well, that'll look good on her resume, at least. 'Counsellor to the Justice League.'

He looks slightly awkward. "Ah… Dinah…"

I look-. And just about keep myself from laughing. "Seriously?"
Hey, now. You know Ollie has a type...

"It's not unreasonable."

Alan looks a little lost. "I'd have thought that she's respect the need for talking through your problems with someone more than anyone."
I'm sure she does, not that she's a qualified therapist. As far as I know?

"Normally she would, but-."

"Blonde women with large breasts are apparently a 'risk factor'."
...And there's Ollie's type. Fishnets are probably an added bonus. :p

Alan rolls his eyes, while Mr. Queen shrugs. "I mean, she's got a point. I haven't always been the best boyfriend, and not getting to hang out with women who are 'my type' isn't that big a deal if that's what it takes to convince her I'm committed this time."

I nod. "How are things with Connor?"
It's a good thing there aren't too many female members of the League that fit that template, at least. Though Wonder Woman probably does have a tendency to make other women feel... Inadequate. :oops:

"Not great, but-. We're.. talking." He steps away, right hand raised in a half-wave. "Let me know how it goes with the Underworld."

Alan nods. "Sure will. Good luck with coping with ruling the world."
I presume that's Connor Hawke, his son and (in some universes) successor?

"Yeah, and Dad said I'd never amount to anything."

"Recognised, Green Arrow, zero eight."

"Orange Lantern to Donna. Do you have a moment?"
Well, bringing in the Themyscira crew on this is probably a good idea.

All right, then. Looks like we have the 'A'-plot taking shape: A road trip into the Underworld via hidden pathways in search of Hades and hopefully a way to access Olympus. And all of the Themysciran group of the Team will be joining in. If nothing else, two of them being blessed by Titans may well come in handy. Because I doubt it'll be as easy as some myths make it seem.
 
Between Klarion's mass infanticide, the Sheeda (no specific targets IIRC) and Mannheim (rural vs city impacts), I wonder how far the demographics and net population of areas has changed from the real world baseline?

That's going to have an inevitable impact on reestablishing prior electorates where boundaries were based on census data.
 
Between Klarion's mass infanticide, the Sheeda (no specific targets IIRC) and Mannheim (rural vs city impacts), I wonder how far the demographics and net population of areas has changed from the real world baseline?

That's going to have an inevitable impact on reestablishing prior electorates where boundaries were based on census data.

...... I think that violates the 20 year rule, so let's just assume it's fine.
 
Between Klarion's mass infanticide, the Sheeda (no specific targets IIRC) and Mannheim (rural vs city impacts), I wonder how far the demographics and net population of areas has changed from the real world baseline?

I can't recall where it was said, but wasn't it noted that the Sheeda mainly attacked cities as well, as obvious concentrations of masses? They were, after all, trying to take people for their biomass.

Oh, and there is also the Angel Invasion, which might not have been as bad but was still a global crisis with a probably not insignificant body count, I would imagine.
 
Between Klarion's mass infanticide, the Sheeda (no specific targets IIRC) and Mannheim (rural vs city impacts), I wonder how far the demographics and net population of areas has changed from the real world baseline?

That's going to have an inevitable impact on reestablishing prior electorates where boundaries were based on census data.

I can't recall where it was said, but wasn't it noted that the Sheeda mainly attacked cities as well, as obvious concentrations of masses? They were, after all, trying to take people for their biomass.

Oh, and there is also the Angel Invasion, which might not have been as bad but was still a global crisis with a probably not insignificant body count, I would imagine.
There was also the mass flood from a Titan almost breaking free of its prison.
 
Alan rolls his eyes, while Mr. Queen shrugs. "I mean, she's got a point. I haven't always been the best boyfriend, and not getting to hang out with women who are 'my type' isn't that big a deal if that's what it takes to convince her I'm committed this time."
Wait what? I'm pretty sure other than the CW verse green arrow has never cheated on black canary. The only time people implied that is after he was raped by I forget the villains name. But I think that was retconned that black canary did not think that was cheating
 
Wait what? I'm pretty sure other than the CW verse green arrow has never cheated on black canary. The only time people implied that is after he was raped by I forget the villains name. But I think that was retconned that black canary did not think that was cheating
I remember reading a Green Arrow comic where he slept with another woman while nominally 'with' Black Canary. And she might just have been uncomfortable with how flirty he was being.
 
Isn't there a major problem with the "run for office" plan?

If Icon becomes President, it means the JL is now officially aligned with a nation. What about the rest of the world? Plenty of it won't allow them to run for office.

Do they keep putting a replacement to run? What if they lose? Back where they started.

What happens to the JL chain of command? Is Icon automatically in charge? What if the rest disagree with him?

And what about the impacts on the US? It is basically the JL taking over their government, that isn't them suborning themselves to the local governments, it is them staging a coup.

The only real solution I think is building a somewhat global government with the JL as a guarantor. They can enforce democracy and set it up as somewhat of a Confederation to keep it from being dominated by one power.
 
Isn't there a major problem with the "run for office" plan?

If Icon becomes President, it means the JL is now officially aligned with a nation. What about the rest of the world? Plenty of it won't allow them to run for office.

Do they keep putting a replacement to run? What if they lose? Back where they started.

What happens to the JL chain of command? Is Icon automatically in charge? What if the rest disagree with him?

And what about the impacts on the US? It is basically the JL taking over their government, that isn't them suborning themselves to the local governments, it is them staging a coup.

The only real solution I think is building a somewhat global government with the JL as a guarantor. They can enforce democracy and set it up as somewhat of a Confederation to keep it from being dominated by one power.
The issue - well, issue from a certain point of view - here is not that JL lacks legitimacy, it's the opposite - the world's governments lack it compared to them. They don't need anyone's backing or to be aligned with any nation, they are already practically running the world, and the world just more or less accepted it so far. Icon becoming the US president is so that when someone asks "What the hell the US government does for us? What are they going to do if the aliens show up?" the answer is "Well, the US president puts on his super suit and goes to fight or to negotiate with them as needed".
 
Since John is on Themiscrya, I wonder what Ambrose Pierce is doing
 
Isn't there a major problem with the "run for office" plan?

Sure is! But then, OL wasn't promising problem-free solutions. Far from it. Every suggest he offered had major issues and would be unpalatable to many League members for one reason or another. And yet all of them address the issue of having the Justice League unconstrained by association with any other authority. Ollie got focused on the "run for office" plan only because its downsides were slightly less immediately obvious than the others.
 
I definitely think they need to accept they have reached the point of no return. They cannot return to the previous status quo. They need a fundamental restructuring of society.

They have the monopoly of superpower for the most part. They can enforce some controls on nukes if they act quickly.

They can't assume direct control, but they can give support to local partners. Democratic nations have the institutions to rebuild with League support. Other places can have partners protected from bad actors and help develop democracy. Like how Teth-Adom is helping his country.

And then have the League act as more of an overall body that can handle interstellar diplomacy and defense. Their mandate being to ensure local democracy and then defense of the Earth. They can provide some transparency to elected representatives. Maybe just adopt the UN General Assembly after ejecting the Security Council.
 
I remember reading a Green Arrow comic where he slept with another woman while nominally 'with' Black Canary. And she might just have been uncomfortable with how flirty he was being.
Okay from what I can see it looks like he gets with 3 other women,don't know if they were together at the time, once with black lightnings niece who I'm not sure is around in YJ another time during a time travel that I'm not sure they have met manitou dawn I think her name is. And another time where after he nearly dies and goes about thinking on his mortality a girl by the name of Marianna but she initiated that kiss then black canary immediately drops him so anything after that is kosher. Anyone else remember any other times?
 
Okay from what I can see it looks like he gets with 3 other women,don't know if they were together at the time, once with black lightnings niece who I'm not sure is around in YJ another time during a time travel that I'm not sure they have met manitou dawn I think her name is. And another time where after he nearly dies and goes about thinking on his mortality a girl by the name of Marianna but she initiated that kiss then black canary immediately drops him so anything after that is kosher. Anyone else remember any other times?

For some reason people like treating Ollie being raped by Shado as him cheating on Dinah.
 
For some reason people like treating Ollie being raped by Shado as him cheating on Dinah.
thats cuz some writers treated it as such and had others talk shit about him for having sex with shado in universe. eventually a sane writer had black cannary go off on some of the JL females for talking about it like that
 
thats cuz some writers treated it as such and had others talk shit about him for having sex with shado in universe.

Unfortunately, some (even most) comics writers are hacks, completely disconnected, pulling shit out of their ass, tone deaf or even all of the above.

I remember seeing something about Ms. Marvel getting pregnant, later revealed to be by mind-control rape, giving birth to that same rapist in an accelerated pregnancy and then the Avengers letting her leave with the same reborn guy that admitted to using said mind control to orchestrate all that shit with just a "Farewell, hope you be happy!"

Nothing surprises me with comic writers. I just consider them "official" Fanfic writers at this point, because they do the same or even worse.
 
I'm glad the Themyscira stuff is getting tackled but... if the episode is gonna be focused on that I can't deny that I will be disappointed. Seeing the Justice League discuss their rulership of the world and how they're gonna handle it sounds way more interesting than the Themyscira side-quest, which more than likely will include some unforeseen shenanigans, maybe some enemy conveniently capable of fighting the Illustres and an arrange of other distractions. Besides, the interpersonal dynamics of the Illustres with other Superheroes are always more engaging than the action in the story.
I'll be annoyed and disappointed, but not surprised, because Zoat does tend to start things happening that seem interesting, and then have that stuff happen off-screen, so we only see the aftermath, if anything at all.
 
Unfortunately, some (even most) comics writers are hacks, completely disconnected, pulling shit out of their ass, tone deaf or even all of the above.

I remember seeing something about Ms. Marvel getting pregnant, later revealed to be by mind-control rape, giving birth to that same rapist in an accelerated pregnancy and then the Avengers letting her leave with the same reborn guy that admitted to using said mind control to orchestrate all that shit with just a "Farewell, hope you be happy!"

Nothing surprises me with comic writers. I just consider them "official" Fanfic writers at this point, because they do the same or even worse.


Avengers #200......I'll leave the expert to cover it....I think I need a shower just for being reminded it exists

 
Unreal (part 6)
30th March 2013
00:54 GMT +2


**Yes, I'm sure.** The bio-ship descends to land on the shore of Alcyonian Lake as M'gann confirms that, yes, she is actually a superhero. **Connor's Mom is still stuck… Somewhere because of this. And you all helped out on M'arzz.**

I feel Kon's combination of gratitude and awkwardness. **M'gann, I've got Helios's blessing, and Paul's Eris's favorite guy ever.**

**That's probably not true.**

Alan shakes his head at me as we descend to float over the surface of the lake. **Don't do yourself down, Paul.**

**You don't think your gods will like me?**

**Ah, no, no, that's not it. But you remember how Paul used to get when he got exposed to magic?**

**You mean like he was drunk? You think that could happen to me?**

**Maybe. You aren't as protected as I am, or Paul or Donna are.**

I feel Mitchell's eye-roll. **But you're fine with me coming along. Thanks, Con. Really feeling the brotherly love.**

**Ah-.**

**No, no, I get it.**

**I just-.**

I get a mental picture of it as M'gann's eyebrows rise. **So you just don't think that I can handle it?**

Then I hear the mental laughing.

**This isn't funny. Mitchell and me are a lot tougher than you, and there are plenty of things we could run into that aren't affected by telekinesis.**

**Then if we run into those things, I'll back off.** The bio-ship lands, and the rear hatch opens. **But until then, I'm coming.**

Perhaps tired of the soap opera, Donna is the first to fly out, landing over by a small copse of trees. "Thana?"

There's a slight shimmer as Thana removes Lord Hades' helmet from her head and steps out. "Princess Donna?

Donna nods. "Alan decided to call me in."

Thana… Looks around owlishly. "No, I meant-. I can only see as well in the dark as a normal woman, and your raiment looks like the night sky. I can't see where you are."

"Oh, right." Donna turns to me. "Paul, could you-?" I generate a giant orange floodlight. "Thanks."

"Ah!" Thana smiles and starts walking towards the bio-ship as the rest of the team pile out. "Prince Kon-El. Prince Mitchell Kent. Miss Martian. How… Many of you can breathe water?"

M'gann shoots a smug glance at Kon. "I can!"

I raise my right hand and Alan nods. Mitchell smiles and shakes his head while Kon frowns.

"Wait, there's actually a way into Erebos under the water? I thought that was just a myth."

"It was a gateway." Thana walks towards the shoreline and Donna drifts behind her. "Lord Hades closed it during the forties after the Germans tried to carry out a ritual here. I believe that the magics which Lord Hades has shared with me will allow me to reopen it."

Kon glances at the lake. "Okay, so what do you need-. You can't breathe under water."

"No, Prince Kon-El. I will need your help getting deep enough to perform the ritual."

"And… What if it doesn't work?"

"Then it doesn't work, and we are no worse off than we are now."

"Actually, we're better off, because we'll know something about how the relationship between Earth and Erebos has changed." I sigh. "If only we had enough thaumaturgists to actually do something about it."

Thana stands on the shore-. Noticeably closer to Alan than to me, which is… A little insulting, but pretty fair, really. He makes a platform and floats it towards the centre of the lake once she steps onto it.

"Is there anything you need the rest of us to do?"

"I am not completely sure that the angry shades that the Germans conjured were ever pacified. That was why I came here."

Alan nods. "You want us to watch your back."

She nods as he extends a bubble over her head. M'gann shifts her neck so that it has gills and dives into the water, her eyes already growing to see better in the dark. Donna drops to the surface of the water and mutters a prayer-. Interesting that her patrons are still answering her. Or… Maybe it's something built into her instead? Did Cronus have traces of his siblings' magic and use that on her? Probably doesn't matter, but…

"Donna?"

She pulls back from the water she was about to dive into? "Yeah?"

"Do you..? Actually get direct feedback from the titans when you do that?"

"How do you mean?"

"I mean, do they directly speak to you, with words?"

She frowns. "Why do you-?"

Then her eyes widen slightly, and she raises her right hand in a warding gesture.

"No."

"What-?"

Donna dives into the water. Kon snorts in amusement as he and Mitchell attach their breathing equipment.

"She heard about the Justice League taking over the world. I guess she doesn't want you to blow her mind twice in one day."

"Do you actually want an environmental shield, or are you fine-?"

"If you wanted her to talk to you, you shoulda told Cat Grant 'no comment'."

"By now I thought that everyone realised that I was a course hazard."

I extend my environmental shield to Kon and Mitchell and together we fly down through the water. They face downwards while I remain in a standing position, shrugging at Mitchell when he flashes me an interrogative glance.

I pull a runestone out of a pouch and give it a wave-around. Higher than normal background magic, but nothing special. On the other hand, gateways don't necessarily need all that much raw power.

Though… Persephone appeared in Brazil. Could Euanthe open a gate there? Or could Sanderson open a portal to the Dream? I'm not sure that the gate from Erebos to the Dream works in both directions, but if we've got the time to focus on it then it would be worth a go.

Wait a… Second…

"Hey, Alan! I think I've got a solution to our-!"

TEETH!
 
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I'll be annoyed and disappointed, but not surprised, because Zoat does tend to start things happening that seem interesting, and then have that stuff happen off-screen, so we only see the aftermath, if anything at all.
I'll try to avoid doing that, but major changes to Justice League operating practice is a long term thing and not something that can be 'completed' in a couple of days.

If there's a plot thread I forgot about or dropped that you want to see more of, please let me know what it is.
 
It's discredited in reference to wolves because the study only looked at wolves held in relatively small enclosures. In universe, characters can just ask someone who was there, and Milgram is very much still valid.
As someone who has studied psychology, that's very much not what the Milgram study was about. Frankly, your conjecture just sounds like pop-psych at best and something from the manospehere or far right rhetoric at worst.
 

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