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Versed in the lewd.
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0_oIt goes back to when primitive tribes were led by their alpha.
I'd really like a citation for this.
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0_oIt goes back to when primitive tribes were led by their alpha.
I'm so amused at the fact that Paul needs to spell this out to Green Arrow. I'm sure at least a few members of the League realized what happened and are simply not drawing attention to it.
Mr. Atom raises his right hand and stares at his own palm. "Have I..? Taken over the world by accident? Was it always this simple?"
Great. 'Alphas'. Using a discredited study on wolf behaviour to describe purported behaviour of prehistoric humanity. We have no idea how tribes were led - that's what prehistory means. All we know is how they were grouped - small bands of one or two dozen people nearby 10 to 20 other bands. We can presume those 10 to 20 bands usually got on well, so you could arguably call them 'tribes' but we don't know how those bands were led or whether one of those bands led the others.
Batman apparently does know they have taken over the world, and approves. To be fair, governments in comic books are generally incompetent, evil, or incompetent AND evil."Yes. Orange Lantern, the current weakness of world governments is very convenient for our work. Stop drawing public attention to it."
Yup, sadly nobody in universe will call him on that particular bit of stupidity.Great. 'Alphas'. Using a discredited study on wolf behaviour to describe purported behaviour of prehistoric humanity. We have no idea how tribes were led - that's what prehistory means. All we know is how they were grouped - small bands of one or two dozen people nearby 10 to 20 other bands. We can presume those 10 to 20 bands usually got on well, so you could arguably call them 'tribes' but we don't know how those bands were led or whether one of those bands led the others.
Ah, I bet that little comment really blew up online, then. And Atom really should consider adding shutters or something to his optics, just for the visual appeal of being able to 'close' his eyes. Humanise him a little more in the public's view.29th March 2013
17:32 GMT -5
Mr. Atom looks at me. He's not blinking because he doesn't have the facility for blinking, but I think he'd be staring anyway.
"I was not informed that the Justice League was taking control of the world. That sounds like something I should have been informed about."
But the lack of evidence of something does not mean the thing does not exist. Merely that no-one's gone looking for it yet."To the best of my knowledge, the League has no active plan to take over the world."
A holographic screen next to him comes to live.
And probably misquoting it or misunderstanding for the sake of attention."…shocking claims a short time ago that governments have failed." The news presenter raises his eyebrows slightly. "And should be replaced, by the Justice League."
"That was fast."
Good point. I mean, it probably doesn't outright say 'we will not take over the world' but I suspect there's no clause saying 'if we end up ruling the world, we promise to give it back.'He leans over me slightly. "I was not informed that the Justice League was taking control of the world."
"I am not a member of the Justice League. And… Were you also not aware of the contents of the League's Charter? And how far beyond it the League is currently operating?"
To be fair, that sums up the attitude of a lot of superhero comics, especially in the early days. Writers may be clever, but not necessarily wise.He settles slightly on his feet. "Expand."
"In my experience, League members don't usually realise that they're pushing a boundary. They just do things that seem like a good idea at the time, without really thinking it through and considering the wider consequences or guiding philosophy. It's like the first time you tried to take over the world."
Though really, I bet his plan was largely limited to 'find current leader, threaten until they surrender power to me'."That did not work."
"Because you didn't think it through. Your current plan is much better informed. But I sent you my analysis of Metropolis policing pre and post-Superman."
Reminds me of 'Red Son', where things like seatbelts became less used, then eventually discarded, because 'Superman would always save them, right?'"Yes. They redeployed funding based on the assumption that he would continue to fulfil his current function."
"He didn't mean for that to happen. He…" I frown. "I haven't asked, but I'm not entirely sure that he's actually aware that it's happened. And if he is, I'd be astonished if he's thought about the significance of it."
True, Atom does tend to course-correct when an issue has been pointed out.Mr. Atom takes a moment. He… Might not be as bad about this as the rest of them. At least, not now I've directly drawn his attention to it.
"They replace public services. That undermines the authority of those who provide public services. And that of their employers. And the social structure that gives them their authority."
To be fair, the supervillainous method usually involves violent overthrow and obnoxiously tyrannical behaviour. The asshole kind of tyrant, mind, not the historical meaning."And that's why being a supervillain is a mug's game if you want to rule the world. No one wants to be ruled by a supervillain. Lots of people want to be ruled by a superhero."
"Calculating."
And some people just exude leadership qualities. Consider Captain America, especially in the MCU, who earns his command over the Avengers (including a genius billionaire playboy philanthropist, an alien Norse god, a literal raging monster and various secret agents) by sheer strength of character and morals. He's just that nice a guy..."It goes back to when primitive tribes were led by their alpha. We've covered it all over with institutions and traditions, but ultimately, people respond to leadership."
"Recognised, Green Arrow, zero eight, Blue Lantern, two four."
And naturally Ollie is the first to insist that this is not cool.Mr. Queen looks around, his eyes locking onto me almost immediately. He strides in my direction, right forefinger raised.
"We're not taking over the world, Paul."
And yes, the JSI world does provide a good example of how not to do it."Not intentionally, no."
Alan shakes his head. "Paul, we both saw what happens when superheroes take over the world. Did that look like something we should be working towards?"
Because they were doing it wrong. At least as OL saw it."Alan, you didn't like it because you didn't like the man you became."
"That was part of it. I… I thought you didn't like it either."
Man's got a good point..."With me it was more because they didn't systematise things logically, and so threw away their morals without the corresponding gain in efficiency they could have gotten. And… Because I didn't like the man you became either. But-." I close my eyes for a moment and shake my head. "Look. Not.. arguing in favour of it, but name one government that did anything helpful during this entire crisis. One army. My future father-in-law did more good than the entire US military, and he's a serial killer."
The people who have the power to deal with it, since most of humanity is not geared up for that sort of thing."Okay. Okay." Mr. Queen raises his right hand to his forehead. "So what you're saying is, we might end up being in control of things without even meaning to be."
"No, I'm saying that you are in control of things without even meaning to." I shrug. "In the event of a major environmental disaster or a raid from space, who would deal with it?"
Not like anyone would really say 'no' if he wanted to suggest some humanitarian reforms to things like healthcare or taxes, for example..."Don't the Russians still have-?" He hesitates. "Okay, we would. Doesn't mean that we rule the world."
"What is it that you want to do that you can't do because someone else has that power?"
I like that. All his plans, rendered useless by happenstance. Remember, atom: The intelligence of a group is limited to the average of its members. And there are a lot more dumb people than there are smart.Mr. Atom raises his right hand and stares at his own palm. "Have I..? Taken over the world by accident? Was it always this simple?"
"No." Mr. Queen turns to him. "No it's not, and no you haven't. Paul."
Well, getting working governments up and running would be a good start."Oliver."
"How do we untake over the world? Without anyone noticing or you doing any more interviews."
Hell, with enough money, you could have a throne in every major city in the world... But really, big-ass thrones are just a right pain in the tailbone. Just ask the Emperor of Mankind.Mr. Atom slowly rotates his hand, still staring at it. "My plan for what do to next involved making a large golden throne of myself. But as Orange Lantern has demonstrated, asteroid mining is not complicated. I could easily obtain the gold to both make the throne and purchase a site in any major metropolitan area."
"Ah…" Alan looks at Mr. Atom in concern. "Mister Atom? Are you okay?"
Yep, people really are more stupid than you could ever have calculated. Welcome to 'being the sensible one'. You're in good company with OL.Actually… I'm a little worried as well. He's raised his hands to either side of his head, clasping it as if he was suffering from a migraine.
"I agreed to work with the League in order to perfect my understanding of human social dynamics. I now believe that I failed to fully comprehend the horizons of my own ignorance."
Ah, see? There's charisma. A few words and a person can see things in a whole new light. It might not take, but just being made to see the contrast...Alan presses his right hand against Mr. Atom's back.
"That's life, Mister Atom. Some people can just walk right up to you and make you think about things you've done your whole life in a completely new way. But that just means you can go about fixing your oversight more intelligently."
To quote another famous synthetic mind: "Well, I was born yesterday."Mr. Queen shakes his head. "Seriously? 'Sit on a golden throne'? That was it?"
"Since the job 'ruler of the world' does not have a description, my conception of it was… Limited."
Honestly, the second sounds like the most comfortable option, minimising changes to the way they operate... Outside of the fact that someone they don't know would know who they were."Now I see what Paul meant about you being young. But, seriously, Paul, how do we change this?"
"Disband the Justice League and join a conventional military or law enforcement organisation. Let the Security Council appoint a director for the Justice League with complete authority over the organisation and knowledge of your real names. Stand for election and hold power using a pre-existing office."
With a throbbing headache, no doubt.
Huh. I suppose he's judged that he needs the extra power, then. Hopefully he's dealing with it well.Batman walks slowly out of the zeta tube. He body language doesn't suggest that he's irritated, though I note that he's still wearing the yellow ring.
"Hey, Bats." Mr. Queen walks towards him. "Just having my mind blown here. You got something to say about it?"
If it hadn't been for the Yellow Ring's presence, I might have thought that Fear was worry about disrupting the world more than they already had."Yes. Orange Lantern, the current weakness of world governments is very convenient for our work. Stop drawing public attention to it."
I nod. "Will do."
"Good. Mr. Atom, you and I have work to do."
Yup, sadly nobody in universe will call him on that particular bit of stupidity.
Honestly, the second sounds like the most comfortable option, minimising changes to the way they operate... Outside of the fact that someone they don't know would know who they were.
Well yes, it's one of the central conceits of the superhero genre : the government has to be impotent and/or corrupt, otherwise there would be no need for billionnaires, tech geniuses and assorted superpowered übermenschen to put on some spandex and go around punching idiots, assholes and madmen. It's the same reason superheroes don't spread their proprietary hypertech while saying that "the world isn't ready", because when everyone's super, then no one is, to paraphrase Syndrome. No wonder OL finds it so infuriating.Batman apparently does know they have taken over the world, and approves. To be fair, governments in comic books are generally incompetent, evil, or incompetent AND evil.
Have to disagree there. Discounting the fact that right now the UN, as most governments, is practically nonexistent, who knows who would get appointed there? What happens when they end up appointing Lex Luthor as Director of the Justice League with all the knowledge and authority that it entails? Notwithstanding that the JL members are there by their own desire, selflessness and strength of character so why would they obey some random UN appointee, even if it isn't a blatant Supervillain or political pawn?
Honestly, better run for some office and go from there. If Superman ran for President or Batman ran for Gotham Mayor, I don't think criminals make enough votes to withstand the landslide win they would get, just like the President Captain America in Ultimate Marvelverse (I didn't read it, I just heard and read about it).
Yeah, sounds like pop-psych to me.
2. Is Mr Atom aware of Power Ring Yellow's attempt to take over New York (?) in the 40s?
Mr. Atom raises his right hand and stares at his own palm. "Have I..? Taken over the world by accident? Was it always this simple?"
Thank you, corrected.Me said:
No. Consider Captain America in the Ultimates universe. Barely out of the ice a month and he could ask the ENTIRE US MILITARY to ignore standing orders and attack the Skrull, and they'd do it.Consider Captain America, especially in the MCU, who earns his command over the Avengers (including a genius billionaire playboy philanthropist, an alien Norse god, a literal raging monster and various secret agents) by sheer strength of character and morals. He's just that nice a guy...
It was really more 'Am I this stupid?'.Also, Mister Atom's little moment of 'Are these humans really that stupid?'
Pretty much coluan, but coluans are organic humanoids and so share a frame of reference with us. He doesn't. I mean, he tries, but it's not quite there.1. How fast does Mr Atom think/process, on a scale of human to coluan?
Power Ring -14? Yes.2. Is Mr Atom aware of Power Ring Yellow's attempt to take over New York (?) in the 40s?
[Looks at the world]Well yes, it's one of the central conceits of the superhero genre : the government has to be impotent and/or corrupt, otherwise there would be no need for billionnaires, tech geniuses and assorted superpowered übermenschen to put on some spandex and go around punching idiots, assholes and madmen.
It's discredited in reference to wolves because the study only looked at wolves held in relatively small enclosures. In universe, characters can just ask someone who was there, and Milgram is very much still valid.Great. 'Alphas'. Using a discredited study on wolf behaviour to describe purported behaviour of prehistoric humanity. We have no idea how tribes were led - that's what prehistory means. All we know is how they were grouped - small bands of one or two dozen people nearby 10 to 20 other bands. We can presume those 10 to 20 bands usually got on well, so you could arguably call them 'tribes' but we don't know how those bands were led or whether one of those bands led the others.
Paul's interpretation: Batman has decided to accept the job of running the world and thus he can file the situation under the heading of 'dealt with'."Yes. Orange Lantern, the current weakness of world governments is very convenient for our work. Stop drawing public attention to it."
I nod. "Will do."
So Mr Atom could consider arranging a consultation with Lantern Gozzi (since Dox II is busy) and/or someone from Universe -14, and contrast their experiences/advice.Pretty much coluan, but coluans are organic humanoids and so share a frame of reference with us. He doesn't. I mean, he tries, but it's not quite there.
...
Power Ring -14? Yes.
How old is Dr. Mist? Old enough to remember the small tribes era?In universe, characters can just ask someone who was there, and Milgram is very much still valid.
With regards to conquest? I mean, he could, I'm just not sure how applicable their problems are to him.So Mr Atom could consider arranging a consultation with Lantern Gozzi (since Dox II is busy) and/or someone from Universe -14, and contrast their experiences/advice.
According to the wiki, around 11000 years old.How old is Dr. Mist? Old enough to remember the small tribes era?
In any social situation, who generally gets the most attention, and thus gets paid attention to? The strongest, or smartest, combine BOTH and you get a potent competent leader figure. Charisma is just making everything work better and lubricates social situations because people like charismatic folk.
Early human groups likely did the same exact thing we do today. Just go out and experience life and social situations, someone always is posturing or making it seem like they want attention or want to be the one making decisions.
Public Education forced me to recognize the common threads of life. The term Alpha may not be accurate, but it *fits*.
I was rereading, and found that Xenopsychology part 18 should be between Break Time part 24 and Break Time part 25 in the TOC.
Thank you, corrected.I was rereading, and found that Xenopsychology part 18 should be between Break Time part 24 and Break Time part 25 in the TOC.
To be fair, governments in comic books are generally incompetent, evil, or incompetent AND evil.
One of the big reasons I stay away from DC and marvel comics is because so much of the plot is pushed by someone being an ass just for the sake of it. It's not believable after the 20th time it happened
.... and now that I wrote that all out, it was really unlikely to happen in the first place, wasn't
In the Godfather the mob is presented as having some code that they try to stick to, but in the Sopranos they break their codes whenever it's convenient with little hesitation.
About fifteen hundred miles in total. The bit we're digging now is about five hundred, and it won't be all that deep or wide to start with.