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That isn't the point. The point is to take away the moral high ground.You offered to change his biology on a fundamental level a few seconds ago, using a method he has never seen or heard of before, and who you may not have even really used, since the Jaffa you hang around probably don't want to change.
Even people that would like to change their bodies wouldn't take you up on that offer.
The fact that he sees you as a scum-sucking parasite that he's known for like less than a hour and who insulted him and his allies is not doing your sales pitch any favors.
I really don't understand why this Paul is so hostile to the star gate people
I get he's pretending to be a Goa'uld but it seems to go beyond that. That last dig at Teal'c for example. That feels like a bit much
If you reread the start of the story you can see the effects of the people he works with has on him; regular path and the renegade pathI really don't understand why this Paul is so hostile to the star gate people.
I get he's pretending to be a Goa'uld but it seems to go beyond that. That last dig at Teal'c for example. That feels like a bit much.
Did Paul really not like the Stargate show or something?
Orange light highlights in group out group dynamics.Paul's that choose a side like to needle the other side if they think that side has wronged them.
It's actually a fairly prominent trait among Paul's that seem to pick the less savory sides, like this one has.
Season 4 Episode 15."Besides, if you rotate the stargate so that the open end facing the ceiling, sending the bomb through probably wouldn't work. He'd think the Earth had a new crater, Earth would be fine, and your team could just dial back after he left."
The question is, if they put them back together exactly how they took them apart, will they still work? That's the drawback of destructive reverse-engineering - unless you have spares, you lose the item you're studying... Though I suppose they have multiple sources now, so not as bad a concern...9th October 1999
13:38 MDT
"…is our lab."
Major Carter opens the door and leads the way inside.
I look around the science laboratory/workshop with some interest. It's far more sophisticated than anything I ever worked with at school, though thanks to Am-heh the partially-disassembled goa'uld devices on display are more familiar than the human analytical machines being used to study them.
Heh.Now that would be a tempting offer. Especially if it comes with technical training in understanding the things they have.
Sadly, such missions rarely go to plan, do they? All that protagonist energy making for complications."I'd be happy to. You, I'm happy to invite." I frown. "Do you really have time to do research as well as your field missions?"
Her eyebrows rise for a moment. "Without wanting to say anything I might be called to testify about in the Hague, most of our missions are focus on finding technology to help with defending the Earth. Taking what I find apart and working out how it works is a part of my field missions."
Is it? Humanity, at least has the handicap of only knowing what a thing does, but having to work out how for themselves. A Goa'Uld can rip that from a host's mind and arrange for a Queen to pass it on."Ah." She looks curious. "Goa'uld are sometimes accused of only being able to copy technology that other species developed. It's pleasant to watch humans do things in the exact same way."
"It's not.. quite the same."
Well, those cleared to know about the origins of the tech, anyway."I-" I nod. "-think it is. We dig up ancient technology, you dig up ancient technology…"
"But I've got access to teams of thousands of people who can work on reverse engineering anything we find."
Yes, pretty logical. Not entirely why he's doing it, I think, but good enough for government work.I nod. "Which is why I'm trying to develop a similar technology base. Literally any goa'uld can outperform any human scientist, but we can't beat those numbers. We've stagnated as a society."
"And that's why you're trying to carry out an industrial revolution."
Given what happened the first time they opened it, I'd say the government had good reason not to..."And why I'm happy to talk to Earth. Or the United States, at least. My ideal solution involves the System Lords agreeing to leave Earth alone and for both sides to respect one another's borders. Fighting you doesn't get us anything, it just-. Apophis attacked you because you killed Ra and he wanted to establish his credentials before the other System Lords as Ra's successor. But Heru'ur wasn't ever going to decide not to fight him, so… Who was he trying to prove himself to? I haven't been able to check everywhere, but were you even using your stargate between your original journey to Abydos and the time when Apophis attacked you?"
It is kind of a foolish reason, and he ended up poking a rather nasty little animal in its lair..."Setting up Stargate Command took-."
I nod. "You weren't, right. So he just.. stuck his arm in a meat grinder to prove a point… To himself, because he still hadn't gotten over Ra becoming Supreme System Lord ahead of him. I really wish you people hadn't killed Ra."
...Good comeback."He was planning to send a naquada-enhanced nuke through the stargate to Earth."
"And how did the nuke get there?"
Sadly, that would be conveniently intelligent.She considers that for a moment, then shrugs awkwardly.
"Besides, if you rotate the stargate so that the open end facing the ceiling, sending the bomb through probably wouldn't work. He'd think the Earth had a new crater, Earth would be fine, and your team could just dial back after he left."
And to be fair, he probably expected it to be much the same as he left it, on the assumption that humans weren't clever enough to advance..."Did Ra know Earth's location?"
"Yes, of course he did, but he did nothing with that knowledge for three thousand years."
Well, it had one useful resource, but he probably found the last time he tried to dial, back after the rebellion, that transit wasn't safe..."Why?"
"Why? Because he had what he needed and Earth didn't have any rare resources." I shrug. "Usually, leaving human-inhabited worlds to their own devices doesn't cause problems. You must have seen enough worlds that the goa'uld have abandoned to know that."
Rocks cost money, citizen. The Empire had the right idea: massed energy-weapon bombardment. Whatever isn't fried by the blaster bolts gets cooked as the atmosphere adjusts to the sudden extra dump of thermal energy..."We're not the only technologically advanced human world."
"Sure, but how many are advanced enough to have faster than light travel? Because that's the point where they actually become a problem. With anything else, a mid-tier underlord can bombard them into dust with a single ha'tak. Or an asteroid and a couple of rocket motors."
So they're just too much hassle to deal with? That'd deflate any 'Humans are special' ego thing they've got going."Apophis sent two ha'taks to Earth and we're still here."
"Yes, and no doubt you could do that again tomorrow with no warning-." I bow my head. "I'm sorry, that was unnecessarily threatening. And I know about your favoured status under the Protected Planets Treaty, and the System Lords are nowhere near ready for a new war with the asgard. But… You do need to understand that the only reason you're still here is that no one who could have dealt with you bothered to do so for three thousand years."
No doubt he already knows about the whole space cruiser project they've got going on... After rummaging through their databases, anyway."We're working on that."
"You've seen our ships, our hyperdrives and you've got naquada. Given your industrial power, you could probably start building your own ships within a few years." I shake my head. "Honestly, through… It seems to me that you'd be best advised to cut down your stargate usage. You need to keep buying raw material that can't be found on Earth, but every encounter with us risks drawing attention that you're not ready for."
At the least, as an orbital defence blockade.She doesn't look impressed.
"Now, once you have a few ships, things become different."
Or, perhaps, a partly-functional one? Like one he's got buried back home?"You said that you can't sell us a ha'tak, and that's the only goa'uld ship that can fight other ha'taks."
"No, but I could get a team onboard a functioning ha'tak. Even a shipyard that was constructing one. You would have to pretend to be a human from Syrania who was there to learn the 'higher mysteries', but Lord Mahes already knows what I'm trying to do. He wouldn't question it. You could learn our ship-building techniques directly."
Ah, now we see the catch. Technically-free assistance in up-gearing his home base."And what do you want in return?"
I take a step closer, maintaining eye contact. "I'd need to be able to show Lord Bastet that the studying was happening on Syrania, so you would have to be based there. And teaching my people everything that you learn."
This generation might find it a bit tricky, but the next will take to it like water...She glances aside. "I don't speak Akkadian. I don't think any of our scientists do."
"So we teach my people English. We'll have to do that anyway. I'll even throw in goa'uld tools and equipment."
And if it were up to Tal;c, he'd already be getting marched down there right now?"That's-. An interesting offer. I-."
The laboratory door opens and Teal'c enters, taking a moment to consider the two of us before speaking. "General Hammond has asked me to inform you that the stargate is available. You may return to Syrania."
Well, that's a bit hasty. Didn't even listen to it."Shol'va-." I smile, taking care to make it obviously awkward. "Teal'c." He raises his eyebrows, looking unimpressed. "I have an offer for you."
"I am not interested."
Yes, and..? You're already fighting the system. What could a little help do to hurt?"Now now, hear me out. You hate the goa'uld, yes?"
"We have been your slaves for nine thousand years."
Pity he isn't feeling particularly motivated to give him some upgrades while he's at it, raise him to peak physical condition like he would have himself.."And I don't like you because you want to break the oath your ancestors made while still keeping all of the benefits. But it occurred to me that if you gave up those benefits, then you wouldn't have that moral obligation. And since you hate us and all our work, you must hate the fact that we have such an impact on your physiology. So how about it?" I extend my left hand in mock-benediction. "I can remove your prim'ta and all of the biotech supporting it from your body. Right now. You can carry on your life as an untainted human, with no obligation to the goa'uld. You wouldn't even be a shol'va any more. You'd still be a traitor, a backstabber and an oathbreaker, but only to your fellow servants of Apophis."
Good thing he's not armed, or you'd be staring down the barrel of a staff right now.I step closer to him, reaching our with my glowing left hand.
"I can just-."
Exactly what you were hoping he'd do, wasn't it?He takes a step backwards away from me. And I smile.
"So I was right. You want the benefits but don't want to pay the costs. How contemptible. Please let General Hammond know that I will be returning shortly."
Eh... This is pretty stereotypical for a Paul... He always thinks his way is the best. And then get's petty with anyone who shows more success with a different method.Well, that whole day...Could probably have gone better for the SGC, but I suppose Paulmon got a few nice bonuses out of it. Pretty much all the human internet downloads he could access from the base, and an opportunity to squeeze Earth for a bit more bonuses. I'm guessing his dislike of the SGC and SG-1 are mostly down to their perceived sloppiness and inefficiency, in his eyes...
Thank you, corrected.
What, you thought that the Ancients designed the ha'tak? Those nifty animal helmets? No, goa'uld are perfectly capable of invention, they just don't usually bother to.Not really.
Humans have thousands of years of developing their own tech before they even got to the Stargate.
Goa'uld on the other hand don't seem to really do that and just steal tech.
Remember when O'Neill was made a jaffa by Hathor, and they undid it using a sarcophagus? Teal'c could have done the same at almost any time."Do you want a sudden life-changing bodily alteration from someone you don't trust, just for a moral victory?"
"No."
"Bitch."
Um, no. That was an illusion forced upon him in order to convince him not to use goa'uld knowledge. The person creating the illusion had a specific aim. Unsurprisingly, the illusion showed exactly what was needed to convince the person experiencing it.Remember that time Daniel had the goauld ancestral knowledge given to him by shifu, the harsesis child they had dropped off with oma desala? He threw Carter in jail for trying to stop him from taking over the world then ignored Jack's attempts to talk him down. He ignored the president and the joint chief like they were ignorant children and he knew best. Because he had thousands of years of memories of being a God and humans being slaves to feed on and torture for fun.
Remember when O'Neill was made a jaffa by Hathor, and they undid it using a sarcophagus? Teal'c could have done the same at almost any time.
Normal Person: do you think using an orange ring to shove thousands of years of genetic memory from another person into your brain could have negative side effects?I really don't understand why this Paul is so hostile to the star gate people.
I get he's pretending to be a Goa'uld but it seems to go beyond that. That last dig at Teal'c for example. That feels like a bit much.
Did Paul really not like the Stargate show or something?
He takes a step backwards away from me. And I smile.
"So I was right. You want the benefits but don't want to pay the costs. How contemptible.
Normal Person: do you think using an orange ring to shove thousands of years of genetic memory from another person into your brain could have negative side effects?
Paul: bet
That isn't the point. The point is to take away the moral high ground.
What, you thought that the Ancients designed the ha'tak? Those nifty animal helmets? No, goa'uld are perfectly capable of invention, they just don't usually bother to.
Remember when O'Neill was made a jaffa by Hathor, and they undid it using a sarcophagus? Teal'c could have done the same at almost any time.
Why because he refused to let a Goa'uld alter his physiology? there's no way Teacl'c would ever agree to that and the idea that Paulmon thinks he won some moral argument with this is just stupid.oh i love that. Teal'c always did come off as a bit too high-and-mighty, it'd good to see him getting taken down a peg or two.
'rotated' and 'faced'?"Besides, if you rotate the stargate so that the open end facing the ceiling, sending the bomb through probably wouldn't work. He'd think the Earth had a new crater, Earth would be fine, and your team could just dial back after he left."
As stated, they're catching up because most goa'uld don't bother with it, not because goa'uld can't do it. The SI said that.Well that failed spectacularly.
Mr Zoat also yes after several thousand years humanity is reverse engineering tech to catch up to the snakes they're at war with. Zoat you really need to have someone play devils advocate for the SGC characters because them just staring at you dumb founded, and not having a counter argument despite a number of them being obvious is ruining this segment. I get that you yourself are playing devils advocate, but this time your doing so badly and at best it comes off ham handed.
The ha'tak was designed by Ptah, and according the roleplay sourcebook that heralded a switch away from using Ancient technology. Do you have a source for where each part came from? Because I don't remember any Ancients using weapons like goa'uld energy pulse weapons.Come on Zoat that is an original art project at best, Every piece of tech in those ships, or the smart metal itself and any tech inside is ALL REVERSE ENGINEERED. But the snakes did invent the pyramid shaped hull.
Thank you, corrected.
I am surprised this need to be explained to you. Starships are not plug-and-play. Starship systems, are not plug and play. Hell, technology itself isn't plug and play unless specifically designed to be.Come on Zoat that is an original art project at best, Every piece of tech in those ships, or the smart metal itself and any tech inside is ALL REVERSE ENGINEERED. But the snakes did invent the pyramid shaped hull
Either they figured out how to program it and change what it healed, it works off the target's interpretation of personal wellness, or it's the writers taking the piss. And speaking of taking the piss...Really so in the show any time a jaffa has been brought back by a sarcophagus they were brought back as human? Or did that only work with Jack because the changes were, post birth, recent, and/or half assed? That seems like a terrible weakness, Oh no your First Prime died fighting off an assassin quick put him in the sarcop... oh no wait that would just make him human.
What is this comment meant to be? Aside from vaguely insulting?Man Zoat do you have no beta readers to bounce ideas, and conversations off of?
Fascinating, so does this mean Ra did actually have some fully intact, functional ancient warships? Ah, they were salvage, not likely fully functional then. Even more reason to design a ship you can repair and replace yourself.The ha'tak was designed by Ptah, and according the roleplay sourcebook that heralded a switch away from using Ancient technology. Do you have a source for where each part came from? Because I don't remember any Ancients using weapons like goa'uld energy pulse weapons
Being nice doesn't mean letting the 'snake' verbally walk all over them without anything remotly resembling a counter argument. Jack is a completely separate situation and only you know why you wrote him doing that despite his orders.SG1 were told to be polite to the guy selling them naquada. O'Neill failed.
The ha'tak was designed by Ptah, and according the roleplay sourcebook that heralded a switch away from using Ancient technology. Do you have a source for where each part came from? Because I don't remember any Ancients using weapons like goa'uld energy pulse weapons.
And stealing more advanced technology from a technologically superior foe is perfectly valid, XCOM is a great example, or how about Stargate Tau'ri themselves? You're acting like purely original innovation is the only valid path for technological development. Well, get this, innovation is hard, and for the Goa'uld under Ra(Aside from issues with motivation, and their general decadency)? Unless you were favored? Not likely to go well. He liked to keep technological superiority over his minions. Anubis did a whole sh!tload of innovation, really scary innovation, guess how that turned out? If you've watched Stargate, you know this, you're just being obtuse. And for that matter, most of the reverse engineering humans did in Stargate was off the Goa'uld themselves. So it's only okay when the Tau'ri do it? Blehh. They didn't even keep that up, the only reason they jumped ahead of the Goa'uld tech-wise was getting access to databases of ancient tech and using that instead, like you are accusing the Goa'uld of. It wasn't innovation, they got uplifted.
But being carried by a jaffa is obviously a huge honor to a primta, so trying to stop Jaffa from using primta to have access to a broader set of capabilities, even if they don't consider the primta to be real people, would be wrong.That isn't the point. The point is to take away the moral high ground.
But being carried by a jaffa is obviously a huge honor to a primta, so trying to stop Jaffa from using primta to have access to a broader set of capabilities, even if they don't consider the primta to be real people, would be wrong.
No to the point there was never a time the Goa'uld didn't have Alteran tech to base all their shit on. Meanwhile until the stargate came around humanity built their tech base up from zero, and could have kept doing that. But fighting the Goa'uld means they have to rush so now the reverse engineer. Paul compares the two as the same when humanity is 99% percent original, and the Gou'uld are 99% knock off. They are not the same.
Just pointing out the parallels between the goauld-host relationship and the primta-jaffa relationship. In both cases, one party is using the other party's biology for access to enhanced capabilities (thumbs or superstrength) in both cases, the party benefitting the most is essentially the dominant party on the transaction. In both cases, the relationship is backed by the cultural expectations of Goauld society, in both cases the submissive party (host or primta) can be said to be getting some benefit (host gets access to a sarcophagus, primta is less likely to be eaten immediately).