With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Bolo]

Wonder what the thoughts will be when Paul goes through the Data of SGC and all the places they have visited. I'm assuming among the data copied was the official and personal reports.
Just thinking what our hero can do with Robo SG-1 along with the tech is exciting. Plus it would annoy
O'Neill….

 

[Vaermina]

Wonder what the thoughts will be when Paul goes through the Data of SGC and all the places they have visited. I'm assuming among the data copied was the official and personal reports.
Just thinking what our hero can do with Robo SG-1 along with the tech is exciting. Plus it would annoy
O'Neill….

Click to shrink...

Mission reports are kept in written or cassette tape format, not digital.

Edit: Remember everyone, this is 1997 not 2007.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Wonder what the thoughts will be when Paul goes through the Data of SGC and all the places they have visited. I'm assuming among the data copied was the official and personal reports.
Just thinking what our hero can do with Robo SG-1 along with the tech is exciting. Plus it would annoy
O'Neill….

Click to shrink...

It's not that helpful. He doesn't have the technology base to do much with it, and passing things along to Bastet results in a bad ending for the people concerned.

The only really useful thing would be Robot Carter. He could offer her goa'uld battery technology in exchange for her taking a teaching job. Unfortunately, Stargate Command still thinks that they buried their gate.

 

[Chaoswind]

Look, right now nobody knows that Sokar is alive. He took his shot at Ra a few thousand years ago, got smacked down and while everyone thought he was dead, rebuilt on Delmak for a rematch. Only for Ra to die. After that he spent the first two years just watching while his crazy industry built his fleet up even more(and several key R&D projects finished up) before making his comeback, starting with Apophis.

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Sokar should already be active, Daniel wife died fairly recently that is early to mid season 3, that means Apophis was already attacked by Sokar in the late season 2, and the Tauri already gave Sokar Apophis body.

Sokar should be active torturing Apophis and bowling over Heruur forces as he threatens other system lords like Baal.

That is assuming the timeline hasn't changed significantly by Paulmon and his supplies to the Tauri, like they finding Daniel's wife faster than the OT (would still be late season 2, around the time Sokar attacks Apophis).

Mr Zoat how are you handling all the timeline bullshit in this series? it's readily apparent that stargate works on the multiple timeline basis most of the time, but also has timeline rewriting when it's convenient to the plot as well, so are there multiple Paulmon running around in each new timeline that forks from the original, or he only exist on this one and is constantly at risk of being rewritten?

Also are you going with the usual approach of blaming the Ancient Ascended in regards to the limited number of timelines going on and why sometimes a fork happens instead of an absolute rewrite.

 

[SotF]

Not really, you're thinking of Anubis who is basically Sokar 2.0.

Look, right now nobody knows that Sokar is alive. He took his shot at Ra a few thousand years ago, got smacked down and while everyone thought he was dead, rebuilt on Delmak for a rematch. Only for Ra to die. After that he spent the first two years just watching while his crazy industry built his fleet up even more(and several key R&D projects finished up) before making his comeback, starting with Apophis.

Most System Lords didn't really care about Sokar on a personal level, beyond him being a threat to them and being known as especially sadistic even by System Lord standards. Anubis though is the one who is universally reviled by all other Goa'uld and he's still waiting to make his own reappearance, not showing up until after Apophis dies for the final time(probably because he's more focused on advanced tech and superweapons compared to Sokar's industry, which hamstrings the amount of numbers he's got).

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No, they know that Sokar is alive, it's Anubis that they don't know is still around.

The system lords really don't like Sokar because even while Ra was around, he was, essentially, a borderline rogue system lord that they tolerated because he had extremely good security and wasn't that expansionist...and Ra set him up as the one running a jail for him.

I think that most Goa'uld also had a personal aversion to him taking on a devil persona rather than the normal ones, because the system lords were even more disturbed by him than they were with Moloch who they saw as wasteful and, often, stupid in how he managed things

 

[Vaermina]

So I just looked it up, and now I'm left scratching my head.

Because in 1997, the computers at Stargate Command wouldn't have even had Wifi capability.

 

[Duke Long]

So I just looked it up, and now I'm left scratching my head.

Because in 1997, the computers at Stargate Command wouldn't have even had Wifi capability.

Click to shrink...

Vaermina, I assume you're questioning how the ring is able to scan their computers. I'm pretty sure wi-fi or any other sort of connectivity is not necessary, because the ring can just directly scan the internals of the computers and get data that way. I think this has been established previously in the story, though it is possible that I am wrong.

 

[Chaoswind]

So I just looked it up, and now I'm left scratching my head.

Because in 1997, the computers at Stargate Command wouldn't have even had Wifi capability.

Click to shrink...

You must have been reading another fic for this past decade because a lack of Wifi has never stopped the ring from entering systems and stealing information, all that is required was for Paul to want it hard enough and for no bullshit like magic to get in the way.

 

[Ardy]

You must have been reading another fic for this past decade

Click to shrink...

.... Wait, I think you may have stumbled onto something. This would explain like 99% of Vaermina's complaints

 

[SotF]

So I just looked it up, and now I'm left scratching my head.

Because in 1997, the computers at Stargate Command wouldn't have even had Wifi capability.

Click to shrink...

The easy one would be through the MALP and drone links there which work even through the gate, I believe there is a radio thing there.

 

[Vaermina]

Vaermina, I assume you're questioning how the ring is able to scan their computers. I'm pretty sure wi-fi or any other sort of connectivity is not necessary, because the ring can just directly scan the internals of the computers and get data that way. I think this has been established previously in the story, though it is possible that I am wrong.

Click to shrink...

It scans computers by accessing through either a physical or wireless connection.

I wonder if I can access the library computer system from out here? I don't really want to break in. I know I could, and probably without breaking anything or setting off an alarm… No, I can't take that sort of risk yet. If someone sees an orange light and thinks it's a fire, I'm in serious trouble. Can I send a thin construct in? Should be possib-. Wireless. Would a public library have wireless internet in 2010? Would it be on now? I gesture towards the library with my left hand.

"Ring. Access wireless data network."

"Access available"

That was surprisingly painless. No obvious construct generated, though the ring is glowing a bit. I rotate it on my ring finger so that the sigil side is on the palm side.

Click to shrink...

Isolated air gaped systems are in fact his natural enemy.

The easy one would be through the MALP and drone links there which work even through the gate, I believe there is a radio thing there.

Click to shrink...

Yup, but they wouldn't be sending/receiving unless a MALP was under active control.

He'd basically have to create a hard line connection to the base computers with a ring construct, spoof an activation command for the MALP sending/receiving system, hide the activation and power draw from the transmission array, and then keep that up for however long it takes the ancient analog transmitter to slowly send the data to his ring.

And well, given the first step of that is "create a hard line connection to the base computers with a ring construct", why do the rest at all?

 

[Chaoswind]

It scans computers by accessing through either a physical or wireless connection.


Isolated air gaped systems are in fact his natural enemy.



Yup, but they wouldn't be sending/receiving unless a MALP was under active control.

He'd basically have to create a hard line connection to the base computers with a ring construct, spoof an activation command for the MALP sending/receiving system, hide the activation and power draw from the transmission array, and then keep that up for however long it takes the ancient analog transmitter to slowly send the data to his ring.

And well, given the first step of that is "create a hard line connection to the base computers with a ring construct", why do the rest at all?

Click to shrink...

That was literally at the start of the fic when Paul had no experience using his ring. Its been established for YEARS now that Paul can get into unprotected systems fairly easily if he "wants" to hard enough, with one of the only things stopping him being magic.

This Paul already has between 3 to 4 years of experience digging into advanced computer systems and scanning shit unnoticed so in that regard he is a veteran even if he is lacking when it comes to combat.

 

[SotF]

It scans computers by accessing through either a physical or wireless connection.


Isolated air gaped systems are in fact his natural enemy.



Yup, but they wouldn't be sending/receiving unless a MALP was under active control.

He'd basically have to create a hard line connection to the base computers with a ring construct, spoof an activation command for the MALP sending/receiving system, hide the activation and power draw from the transmission array, and then keep that up for however long it takes the ancient analog transmitter to slowly send the data to his ring.

And well, given the first step of that is "create a hard line connection to the base computers with a ring construct", why do the rest at all?

Click to shrink...

There are several other things that have some kind of wireless connection in the series and we don't know how secure those are.

Later on with the Alpha and other sites, they also have entire data dumps that happen automatically there.

A more general WiFi setup is also directly possible considering it's not that far ahead of tech capabilities at that point, and you have the recurring issue that the SGC was retrofitted from the decommissioned missile silo/secure storage facility very rapidly in show, and you also had several points where there was wireless data transfers...and the SGC does, also, have alien tech that would do the exact same thing that they could retrofit for their own use since they did capture several Goa'uld probe "grenade" spheres.

 

[Chaoswind]

There are several other things that have some kind of wireless connection in the series and we don't know how secure those are.

Later on with the Alpha and other sites, they also have entire data dumps that happen automatically there.

A more general WiFi setup is also directly possible considering it's not that far ahead of tech capabilities at that point, and you have the recurring issue that the SGC was retrofitted from the decommissioned missile silo/secure storage facility very rapidly in show, and you also had several points where there was wireless data transfers...and the SGC does, also, have alien tech that would do the exact same thing that they could retrofit for their own use since they did capture several Goa'uld probe "grenade" spheres.

Click to shrink...

This argument is pointless because its been already established that the Paul's can dig into "air gapped" systems, if they WANT to hard enough and Paulmon has at minimum 3 years of experience as a lantern digging into databases with his ring.

The only problems Paulmon has mentioned its gaining access to systems that are non operational/inert as digging into them would need him to turn them on first and that could be noticeable.

 

[Vaermina]

That was literally at the start of the fic when Paul had no experience using his ring. Its been established for YEARS now that Paul can get into unprotected systems fairly easily if he "wants" to hard enough, with one of the only things stopping him being magic.

This Paul already has between 3 to 4 years of experience digging into advanced computer systems and scanning shit unnoticed so in that regard he is a veteran even if he is lacking when it comes to combat.

Click to shrink...

This Paul only has the limited Goa'uld tech database and a once a day Lantern recharge. (Because no central power battery link means limited recharge, something already established in this story.)

The Paul you're referencing had training from other lanterns, multiple alien technological databases, advanced human technology databases, training in magic, above 100% charge rings, enlightenment, and the Ophidian. And even then I'm not sure you're actually remembering it right.

There are several other things that have some kind of wireless connection in the series and we don't know how secure those are.

Later on with the Alpha and other sites, they also have entire data dumps that happen automatically there.

A more general WiFi setup is also directly possible considering it's not that far ahead of tech capabilities at that point, and you have the recurring issue that the SGC was retrofitted from the decommissioned missile silo/secure storage facility very rapidly in show, and you also had several points where there was wireless data transfers...and the SGC does, also, have alien tech that would do the exact same thing that they could retrofit for their own use since they did capture several Goa'uld probe "grenade" spheres.

Click to shrink...

Yes, but those are all later on.

In fact, if I remember right the first occurrence was about two years in the future after the SGC had switched to the Mark II MALP's.

 

[RoninSword]

Indeed, Paul has mentioned in the past 'magical hacking' and when asked to explain, he goes on to talk about how data is literally physically stored on a computer and so even without wifi, so long as there are no anti ring protections, he can literally scan the physical data at range.

What I remember is specifically when they were in Minion. He has a whole discussion
In fact, here is the scene

snipped

Click to shrink...

I see no reason why Paulmon can't do that.

 

[Vaermina]

I see no reason why Paulmon can't do that.

Click to shrink...

Because that level of scanning detail was gained when he was possessed by the Ophidian and gained enlightenment?

At least, that's what I recall. Might be misremembering given how long it's been.

 

[RoninSword]

Because that level of scanning detail was gained when he was possessed by the Ophidian and gained enlightenment?

At least, that's what I recall. Might be misremembering given how long it's been.

Click to shrink...

I can't recall either and I'm not willing to dig for a relevant quote. Partially cus I'm tired and partially because finding a relevant chapter for that is not worth the effort imo.

 

[Prince Charon]

"You don't like it? No one's asking you to do it. And while you're here, General." I recreate the 'Opinion of the Office of the Attorney General on Off-World Warfare'. "This is unhelpful legalistic bullshit designed to shield you against people in your own country suing you. It contains absolutely nothing that might lead to a cessation of hostilities with the people you're actually fighting. Take it back and get one with actual war-aims written in it, because while I don't think you did anything wrong in killing Ra, that act has resulted in a war that makes the period nineteen ten to nineteen fifty look like a minor border skirmish and you don't appear to know what you actually want out of the situation. Also."

Click to shrink...

Speaking of, any chance we're going to get details on what the war aims of the SGverse USA are in this conflict? Realistically, they would have some, but the writers of the show might not have bothered thinking about it, or might have contradictory ideas.

 

[Chaoswind]

Because that level of scanning detail was gained when he was possessed by the Ophidian and gained enlightenment?

At least, that's what I recall. Might be misremembering given how long it's been.

Click to shrink...

And that is relevant why?

The argument is that is been established for years that it's possible to scan and steal information from systems, and such capabilities are only limited by the NEED/WANT of the user and whether the system is protected by magic bullshit or not.

 

[Vaermina]

And that is relevant why?

The argument is that is been established for years that it's possible to scan and steal information from systems, and such capabilities are only limited by the NEED/WANT of the user and whether the system is protected by magic bullshit or not.

Click to shrink...

Okay, but then why was he limited to the SGC?

 

[Ardy]

Okay, but then why was he limited to the SGC?

Click to shrink...

He wasn't? Where are you even getting that from? Like, he doesn't care about non-SGC stuff because he has other shit to do, but where do you find an implication that he can't scan beyond the base?

 

[SotF]

This Paul only has the limited Goa'uld tech database and a once a day Lantern recharge. (Because no central power battery link means limited recharge, something already established in this story.)

The Paul you're referencing had training from other lanterns, multiple alien technological databases, advanced human technology databases, training in magic, above 100% charge rings, enlightenment, and the Ophidian. And even then I'm not sure you're actually remembering it right.



Yes, but those are all later on.

In fact, if I remember right the first occurrence was about two years in the future after the SGC had switched to the Mark II MALP's.

Click to shrink...

Some of their other things involved uses of the Goa'uld sensor "grenades" that they could tap into with the base computer early on in some of the expanded material as well as a laptop early on...because they could be acquired and reprogrammed in the field.

 

[Vaermina]

I'd also point out the SGC had an unpowered Ancient database in storage. So if he scanned everything like that his ring should now have a complete copy of the Ancients database.

 

[Ardy]

I'd also point out the SGC had an unpowered Ancient database in storage. So if he scanned everything like that his ring should now have a complete copy of the Ancients database.

Click to shrink...

that didn't answer my question

 

[CTrees]

I'd also point out the SGC had an unpowered Ancient database in storage. So if he scanned everything like that his ring should now have a complete copy of the Ancients database.

Click to shrink...

I'm going to agree with you that Ancient security was pretty good. It's s likely a fair bit better than 1990s cutting edge Earth computers, or even Goa'uld data storage.

Not unless Zoat seriously nerfs Ancient technology.

And he'd have to be an idiot to even try given how insane Ancient security can be for anything that's not functionally a trinket.

Click to shrink...

There's not really any good reason to assume that the (quick, resistance free) data dump from the SGC computers would have been able to penetrate the Ancient database. If that's even currently on base instead of at Area 51.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Mr Zoat how are you handling all the timeline bullshit in this series? it's readily apparent that stargate works on the multiple timeline basis most of the time, but also has timeline rewriting when it's convenient to the plot as well, so are there multiple Paulmon running around in each new timeline that forks from the original, or he only exist on this one and is constantly at risk of being rewritten?

Click to shrink...

Aside for Ba'al becoming Supreme System Lord, most of the time changes I remember probably wouldn't affect him. They'd happen, then unhappen, and things would continue.

 

[Mr Zoat]

9th October 1999
13:38 MDT

"…is our lab."

Major Carter opens the door and leads the way inside.

I look around the science laboratory/workshop with some interest. It's far more sophisticated than anything I ever worked with at school, though thanks to Am-heh the partially-disassembled goa'uld devices on display are more familiar than the human analytical machines being used to study them.

"Mine's better."

"Maybe you can show me if I visit Syrania."

"I'd be happy to. You, I'm happy to invite." I frown. "Do you really have time to do research as well as your field missions?"

Her eyebrows rise for a moment. "Without wanting to say anything I might be called to testify about in the Hague, most of our missions are focused on finding technology to help with defending the Earth. Taking what I find apart and working out how it works is a part of my field missions."

"Ah." She looks curious. "Goa'uld are sometimes accused of only being able to copy technology that other species developed. It's pleasant to watch humans do things in the exact same way."

"It's not.. quite the same."

"I-" I nod. "-think it is. We dig up ancient technology, you dig up ancient technology…"

"But I've got access to teams of thousands of people who can work on reverse engineering anything we find."

I nod. "Which is why I'm trying to develop a similar technology base. Literally any goa'uld can outperform any human scientist, but we can't beat those numbers. We've stagnated as a society."

"And that's why you're trying to carry out an industrial revolution."

"And why I'm happy to talk to Earth. Or the United States, at least. My ideal solution involves the System Lords agreeing to leave Earth alone and for both sides to respect one another's borders. Fighting you doesn't get us anything, it just-. Apophis attacked you because you killed Ra and he wanted to establish his credentials before the other System Lords as Ra's successor. But Heru'ur wasn't ever going to decide not to fight him, so… Who was he trying to prove himself to? I haven't been able to check everywhere, but were you even using your stargate between your original journey to Abydos and the time when Apophis attacked you?"

"Setting up Stargate Command took-."

I nod. "You weren't, right. So he just.. stuck his arm in a meat grinder to prove a point… To himself, because he still hadn't gotten over Ra becoming Supreme System Lord ahead of him. I really wish you people hadn't killed Ra."

"He was planning to send a naquada-enhanced nuke through the stargate to Earth."

"And how did the nuke get there?"

She considers that for a moment, then shrugs awkwardly.

"Besides, if you rotate the stargate so that the open end is facing the ceiling, sending the bomb through probably wouldn't work. He'd think the Earth had a new crater, Earth would be fine, and your team could just dial back after he left."

"Did Ra know Earth's location?"

"Yes, of course he did, but he did nothing with that knowledge for three thousand years."

"Why?"

"Why? Because he had what he needed and Earth didn't have any rare resources." I shrug. "Usually, leaving human-inhabited worlds to their own devices doesn't cause problems. You must have seen enough worlds that the goa'uld have abandoned to know that."

"We're not the only technologically advanced human world."

"Sure, but how many are advanced enough to have faster than light travel? Because that's the point where they actually become a problem. With anything else, a mid-tier underlord can bombard them into dust with a single ha'tak. Or an asteroid and a couple of rocket motors."

"Apophis sent two ha'taks to Earth and we're still here."

"Yes, and no doubt you could do that again tomorrow with no warning-." I bow my head. "I'm sorry, that was unnecessarily threatening. And I know about your favoured status under the Protected Planets Treaty, and the System Lords are nowhere near ready for a new war with the asgard. But… You do need to understand that the only reason you're still here is that no one who could have dealt with you bothered to do so for three thousand years."

"We're working on that."

"You've seen our ships, our hyperdrives and you've got naquada. Given your industrial power, you could probably start building your own ships within a few years." I shake my head. "Honestly, through… It seems to me that you'd be best advised to cut down your stargate usage. You need to keep buying raw material that can't be found on Earth, but every encounter with us risks drawing attention that you're not ready for."

She doesn't look impressed.

"Now, once you have a few ships, things become different."

"You said that you can't sell us a ha'tak, and that's the only goa'uld ship that can fight other ha'taks."

"No, but I could get a team onboard a functioning ha'tak. Even a shipyard that was constructing one. You would have to pretend to be a human from Syrania who was there to learn the 'higher mysteries', but Lord Mahes already knows what I'm trying to do. He wouldn't question it. You could learn our ship-building techniques directly."

"And what do you want in return?"

I take a step closer, maintaining eye contact. "I'd need to be able to show Lord Bastet that the studying was happening on Syrania, so you would have to be based there. And teaching my people everything that you learn."

She glances aside. "I don't speak Akkadian. I don't think any of our scientists do."

"So we teach my people English. We'll have to do that anyway. I'll even throw in goa'uld tools and equipment."

"That's-. An interesting offer. I-."

The laboratory door opens and Teal'c enters, taking a moment to consider the two of us before speaking. "General Hammond has asked me to inform you that the stargate is available. You may return to Syrania."

"Shol'va-." I smile, taking care to make it obviously awkward. "Teal'c." He raises his eyebrows, looking unimpressed. "I have an offer for you."

"I am not interested."

"Now now, hear me out. You hate the goa'uld, yes?"

"We have been your slaves for nine thousand years."

"And I don't like you because you want to break the oath your ancestors made while still keeping all of the benefits. But it occurred to me that if you gave up those benefits, then you wouldn't have that moral obligation. And since you hate us and all our work, you must hate the fact that we have such an impact on your physiology. So how about it?" I extend my left hand in mock-benediction. "I can remove your prim'ta and all of the biotech supporting it from your body. Right now. You can carry on your life as an untainted human, with no obligation to the goa'uld. You wouldn't even be a shol'va any more. You'd still be a traitor, a backstabber and an oathbreaker, but only to your fellow servants of Apophis."

I step closer to him, reaching out with my glowing left hand.

"I can just-."

He takes a step backwards away from me. And I smile.

"So I was right. You want the benefits but don't want to pay the costs. How contemptible. Please let General Hammond know that I will be returning shortly."

 

[Darko]

missions are focus on

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"focused"

Ah." She looks curious. "Goa'uld are sometimes accused of only being able to copy technology that other species developed. It's pleasant to watch humans do things in the exact same way."

Click to shrink...

Not really.

Humans have thousands of years of developing their own tech before they even got to the Stargate.

Goa'uld on the other hand don't seem to really do that and just steal tech.

Literally any goa'uld can outperform any human scientist,

Click to shrink...

That's not necessarily true.

Goa'uld may have their parents' knowledge, but they may not necessarily be all that smart.

I can potentially memorize something about quantum physics.

That doesn't mean I'd understand it.

And even if they gain the understanding, that doesn't mean they'd understand something new.

"So I was right. You want the benefits but don't want to pay the costs. How contemptible

Click to shrink...

You offered to change his biology on a fundamental level a few seconds ago, using a method he has never seen or heard of before, and who you may not have even really used, since the Jaffa you hang around probably don't want to change.

Even people that would like to change their bodies wouldn't take you up on that offer.

The fact that he sees you as a scum-sucking parasite that he's known for like less than a hour and who insulted him and his allies is not doing your sales pitch any favors.

 

[Bigking321]

I really don't understand why this Paul is so hostile to the star gate people.

I get he's pretending to be a Goa'uld but it seems to go beyond that. That last dig at Teal'c for example. That feels like a bit much.

Did Paul really not like the Stargate show or something?