With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Darko · Monday at 8:38 PM

BartlettMagic said:
they're not hurting Supes, they're literally making more of him. what's not to love

They took his DNA without his permission or knowledge in order to make a slave weapon that would kill him.

That's not to love.

Ardy · Monday at 8:58 PM

Darko said:
They took his DNA without his permission or knowledge in order to make a slave weapon that would kill him.

That's not to love.

Slave weapon? You mean adopted child that ~~Luthor~~ Cadmus will hug and squeeze and love just like the Genomorphs!

Mr Zoat · Tuesday at 6:13 AM

13th November 1999
21:15 GMT

In theory, having an in with the Tok'Ra could be very useful. If I can convince them that supporting System Lord Bastet is in the best interests of humans generally, she could get access to a very useful spy network as well as the ability to supply them with whatever they need to increase their ability to act against their shared enemies. And while they're occupied with that, we can tech up, start annexing the weakened ones…

Because the only way this 'ends' well for me is if Bastet becomes Supreme System Lord. Or a diarch with Kali, that works fine for me too. Works best for humans, works best for non- and minimally- crazy goa'uld, and works best for the Tok'Ra too because they can focus on human uplift once the more objectionable parts of goa'uld society have been done away with. Or retasking themselves to acting as internal affairs investigators for the joint throne, fighting recidivist goa'uld on their behalf.

I don't think the Tok'Ra would be convinced by that argument due to it actually making sense, but I'll give it a go at some point.

But for now…

For now I've got to make preparations in case Heset wasn't lying to me. Because if there's one thing I can't do, it's produce goa'uld sperm. In fact, having… Had to review goa'uld physiology I'm not sure that 'male' goa'uld have sperm. Certainly, some goa'uld prefer male hosts and some prefer female, but…

I sort of assumed that the goa'uld reproductive system was parasitic as well, and then stopped looking at it because how was it ever going to be relevant to me? Plenty of goa'uld have concubines, a few marry other goa'uld and maintain long term relationships, but… The physical attraction comes from the host body. As for reproducing… System Lord Yu has sired many children on his concubines, and they serve as administrators throughout his region of space. None are reported to be superhuman, though I haven't taken a close look myself.

The child of two hosts would be a harcesis, a human with goa'uld genetic memory. Making those is very illegal, and not something that I have any intention of risking. Because the fact they can exist means that non-queen goa'uld can pass on their genetic memory sexually, though I've got no idea why it requires two goa'uld parents and it's not as if I want to experiment.

But there lies the problem. Goa'uld queens require samples of genetic material from the host population in order to create compatible goa'uld. Presumably, a goa'uld queen can determine whether she's going to create new goa'uld or a new human foetus because Am-Heh seems sure that the usual way for them to get those genetic samples is through sex.

Which… Raises a rather disturbing question on how new species are added to the pool of available hosts. Goa'uld mostly uses unas hosts before discovering humans, and Bastet used to use sekhmets as hosts. Which… Means that adaptation by queen isn't the only way to handle things..?

Don't know.

Unfortunately, Am-Heh doesn't have a lot of information on the exact biological systems involved. Which means that I'm left with the distinct possibility that if Bastet does choose me as the sire of her next batch, she might pick up on the fact that I don't have goa'uld genetic memory. And even if I scanned another gou'ald and put their secretions into my body -an idea I'm not exactly excited about- it wouldn't have Mammon's memories. Or my memories.

Which would blow this whole thing, and somehow I don't think she'd find it funny. Which means that I need to get Mammon's memories at the very least. I might be able to claim that the more recent stuff hadn't bedded in enough for transference yet, or the whole 'under a mountain' thing disrupted it. Goa'uld don't appear to have much interest in studying exactly how their own bodies work, so I doubt that she would simply gainsay me. She might be surprised, but she wouldn't know and she's perfectly capable of altering her spawn's behaviour-.

I'm trying not to think about how many of my children would end up getting eaten. That's something that I'm... Going to want to do something about if they actually end up being mine.

Anyway. I do have samples of Mammon's genetic material. I found his crushed remains -and those of his host- a few weeks into my stay here while I was making the interior of the ship safe for habitation. And with those genetic samples I could grow a new Mammon, basically identical to the old one thanks to goa'uld genetic memory.

Except, then what? I don't want to stick him in my head and give him control of my body. Even if I kept control of the ring. There's no point in assimilating him. Wait, no, there's a small point, because I'd get the knowledge that he had, but I don't really need that. But his secretions… They alone would let me fake being him a little better.

And…

I'm staring at the power ring on my left ring finger.

What… If I can impose my own desires on his biology?

I mean… I've got no idea how goa'uld memory encoding works-.

But the Altairians do. Teal'c 1 went mad because Harlan mixed up the Jaffa and goa'uld parts of his mind. Which means that they… Can implant knowledge from a goa'uld onto a machine. But that doesn't mean that they can do it the other way.

Ring magic it is, then.

I fabricate a fish tank, fill it with water and then clone Mammon. The clone is dead, but all of the desires should be contained within his biological structure.

Hopefully.

Breathe in. Breathe out. See the shape of his desires, the desires inherent in his form.

Dead flesh. No light. Look beyond it. Look through it.

In the orange light I see something grand-.

I gasp, blinking, the vision slipping away.

I saw… Something. And… Huh. Not sure what it was, but I'm… Definitely seeing something now when I look at Mammon 2. That's… Weird. Useful, but…

I've occasionally wondered why the power ring even works here. No Guardians or Controllers, no… Mention of them having existed at any point in the past. Only one personal lantern and no power ring other than the one I'm wearing. It clearly does work, but does it work on the same principles? Is there some sort of underlying emotional… Layer to the universe?

Do I want there to be?

I shake my head. Hardly my choice.

Mammon's desire structures are actually shallower than those of most goa'uld I've met. Somehow. But if I push here and pull here…

Desire dubbing.

Guh.

Okay, that… Looks a bit more like me… I think..? How about..? Specific memories? No, that didn't seem to-.

Okay, those desires came from somewhere, so… Expand upon that desire with actual information.

…

And the only way I could check that it's worked would be by making Mammon alive and asking, which I'm not going to do. Still, the worst that could happen here is that I get regular Mammon memories in my blood, so I guess I'll give it a go.

Activate glands manually. Don't activate his brain. And I need to collect… That stuff? Scan and analyse, and add that to my blood and put Mammon in subspace just in case.

Okay, one potential crisis averted, probably. Now back to the other ninety nine.

Darko · Tuesday at 6:24 AM

Mr Zoat said:
Which… Raises a rather disturbing question on how new species are added to the pool of available hosts. Goa'uld mostly uses unas hosts before discovering humans, and Bastet used to use sekhmets as hosts. Which… Means that adaptation by queen isn't the only way to handle things..?

They either rape them in order to acquire the DNA, or just remove it by more surgical means.

And old Goa'uld probably just keep possessing new species until they can finally fully control them.

Mr Zoat said:
I'm trying not to think about how many of my children would end up getting eaten. That's something that I'm... Going to want to do something about if they actually end up being mine

Not all of them will be eaten.

Some will be placed into slave soldiers and sent out to die.

Mr Zoat said:
Anyway. I do have samples of Mammon's genetic material. I found his crushed remains -and those of his host- a few weeks into my stay here while I was making the interior of the ship safe for habitation. And with those genetic samples I could grow a new Mammon, basically identical to the old one thanks to goa'uld genetic memory.

Except, then what? I don't want to stick him in my head and give him control of my body. Even if I kept control of the ring. There's no point in assimilating him. Wait, no, there's a small point, because I'd get the knowledge that he had, but I don't really need that. But his secretions… Them alone would let me fake being him a little better

Plus you'd be making a new generation of Mammons.

"They alone"

Mr Zoat said:
Mammon's desire structures are actually shallower than those of most goa'uld I've met

Maybe it's the orange light corruption.

Or he's just not that deep or complex.

Someguy Somewhere · Tuesday at 6:31 AM

Dangerous games to be playing with your own biology, and no proper testing or rigour. I'm sure the other OLs weep for the proper scientific method.

Seriously, operating solo makes AtlPauls do some silly things without someone with common sense to keep an eye on him.

Chojin Patriarch · Tuesday at 6:46 AM

Mr Zoat said:
13th November 1999
21:15 GMT

In theory, having an in with the Tok'Ra could be very useful. If I can convince them that supporting System Lord Bastet is in the best interests of humans generally, she could get access to a very useful spy network as well as the ability to supply them with whatever they need to increase their ability to act against their shared enemies. And while they're occupied with that, we can tech up, start annexing the weakened ones…

That's assuming the Tok'ra's mother didn't lay in any subconscious urges towards Goa'uld that would preclude cooperation. And I would not put it past her to do so. On the other hand, their hosts could be convinced, right?

Because the only way this 'ends' well for me is if Bastet becomes Supreme System Lord. Or a diarch with Kali, that works fine for me too. Works best for humans, works best for non- and minimally- crazy goa'uld, and works best for the Tok'Ra too because they can focus on human uplift once the more objectionable parts of goa'uld society have been done away with. Or retasking themselves to acting as internal affairs investigators for the joint throne, fighting recidivist goa'uld on their behalf.

Sadly, I suspect goa'uld nature will reassert itself at some point, even without the neurological defects caused by sarcophagus usage.

I don't think the Tok'Ra would be convinced by that argument due to it actually making sense, but I'll give it a go at some point.

But for now…

Sooner or later, some clever clogs of a junior Goa'Uld underlord will get the bright idea that maybe he/she/they could be a better boss. Hopefully, with the Tok'ra acting as a counter, the damage they cause can be minimised...

For now I've got to make preparations in case Heset wasn't lying to me. Because if there's one thing I can't do, it's produce goa'uld sperm. In fact, having… Had to review goa'uld physiology I'm not sure that 'male' goa'uld have sperm. Certainly, some goa'uld prefer male hosts and some prefer female, but…

I'm not sure the Goa'uld parasites have gender, do they? Beyond the ability to reproduce.

I sort of assumed that the goa'uld reproductive system was parasitic as well, and then stopped looking at it because how was it ever going to be relevant to me? Plenty of goa'uld have concubines, a few marry other goa'uld and maintain long term relationships, but… The physical attraction comes from the host body. As for reproducing… System Lord Yu has sired many children on his concubines, and they serve as administrators throughout his region of space. None are reported to be superhuman, though I haven't taken a close look myself.

An interesting way to ensure loyalty, especially if he encourages the Confucian virtues of Filial loyalty in them.

The child of two hosts would be a harcesis, a human with goa'uld genetic memory. Making those is very illegal, and not something that I have any intention of risking. Because the fact they can exist means that non-queen goa'uld can pass on their genetic memory sexually, though I've got no idea why it requires two goa'uld parents and it's not as if I want to experiment.

And that raises so many questions about the mechanics of the process...

But there lies the problem. Goa'uld queens require samples of genetic material from the host population in order to create compatible goa'uld. Presumably, a goa'uld queen can determine whether she's going to create new goa'uld or a new human foetus because Am-Heh seems sure that the usual way for them to get those genetic samples is through sex.

I suppose it's an enjoyable way of doing it, yes.

Which… Raises a rather disturbing question on how new species are added to the pool of available hosts. Goa'uld mostly uses unas hosts before discovering humans, and Bastet used to use sekhmets as hosts. Which… Means that adaptation by queen isn't the only way to handle things..?

Don't know.

I suspect it requires a measure of rather high-lethality brute-force. As in, climb in, poke around the nervous system until they learn which bit does what. And if the prospective host croaks, well... More where they came from.

Unfortunately, Am-Heh doesn't have a lot of information on the exact biological systems involved. Which means that I'm left with the distinct possibility that if Bastet does choose me as the sire of her next batch, she might pick up on the fact that I don't have goa'uld genetic memory. And even if I scanned another gou'ald and put their secretions into my body -an idea I'm not exactly excited about- it wouldn't have Mammon's memories. Or my memories.

A right conundrum, really. I doubt she'd accept any excuse like 'The process I underwent made me incompatible...'

Which would blow this whole thing, and somehow I don't think she'd find it funny. Which means that I need to get Mammon's memories at the very least. I might be able to claim that the more recent stuff hadn't bedded in enough for transference yet, or the whole 'under a mountain' thing disrupted it. Goa'uld don't appear to have much interest in studying exactly how their own bodies work, so I doubt that she would simply gainsay me. She might be surprised, but she wouldn't know and she's perfectly capable of altering her spawn's behaviour-.

Still, better to prepare something, and try to cover your ass before the offer gets made.

I'm trying not to think about how many of my children would end up getting eaten. That's something that I'm... Going to want to do something about if they actually end up being mine.

Anyway. I do have samples of Mammon's genetic material. I found his crushed remains -and those of his host- a few weeks into my stay here while I was making the interior of the ship safe for habitation. And with those genetic samples I could grow a new Mammon, basically identical to the old one thanks to goa'uld genetic memory.

Though I expect much of said samples are a bit deteriorated.

Except, then what? I don't want to stick him in my head and give him control of my body. Even if I kept control of the ring. There's no point in assimilating him. Wait, no, there's a small point, because I'd get the knowledge that he had, but I don't really need that. But his secretions… Them alone would let me fake being him a little better.

Oh, this has so much potential to go wrong.

And…

I'm staring at the power ring on my left ring finger.

What… If I can impose my own desires on his biology?

Methinks your Ring Use skill isn't going to be quite high enough to ace this, Mammon. You may well need to roll a natural 20 to pull it off...

I mean… I've got no idea how goa'uld memory encoding works-.

But the Altairians do. Teal'c 1 went mad because Harlan mixed up the Jaffa and goa'uld parts of his mind. Which means that they… Can implant knowledge from a goa'uld onto a machine. But that doesn't mean that they can do it the other way.

Though that would require sharing your secret with them. And that introduces too many points of failure.

Ring magic it is, then.

I fabricate a fish tank, fill it with water and then clone Mammon. The clone is dead, but all of the desires should be contained within his biological structure.

...I don't think that's how it works, but whatever you need to get bonuses to your roll...

Hopefully.

Breathe in. Breathe out. See the shape of his desires, the desires inherent in his form.

Probably the most esoteric application of Orange Light he's employed on the years he's had the Ring.

Dead flesh. No light. Look beyond it. Look through it.

In the orange light I see something grand-.

Ah, hello there, Ophidian-chan. Or whatever this universe's counterpart is if it isn't her.

I gasp, blinking, the vision slipping away.

I saw… Something. And… Huh. Not sure what it was, but I'm… Definitely seeing something now when I look at Mammon 2. That's… Weird. Useful, but…

Wonder if he noticed a little snake ~~kiss~~ tongue-flick when he poked the Honden?

I've occasionally wondered why the power ring even works here. No Guardians or Controllers, no… Mention of them having existed at any point in the past. Only one personal lantern and no power ring other than the one I'm wearing. It clearly does work, but does it work on the same principles? Is there some sort of underlying emotional… Layer to the universe?

I mean, nothing says the Maltusians didn't exist somewhere else in the universe, and the Ancients told them to stay out of their turf at some point...

Do I want there to be?

I shake my head. Hardly my choice.

Keep telling yourself that. But now you have the attention of something greater... And you can't even think to dread getting their interest.

Mammon's desire structures are actually shallower than those of most goa'uld I've met. Somehow. But if I push here and pull here…

Desire dubbing.

Guh.

Probably explains why it was content to serve Ra. Get paid, easy life, that sort of thing.

Okay, that… Looks a bit more like me… I think..? How about..? Specific memories? No, that didn't seem to-.

Okay, those desires came from somewhere, so… Expend upon that desire with actual information.

Ooh, good start to your deeper relationship to the orange Light: graffiting the walls of the Honden.

…

And the only way I could check that it's worked would be by making Mammon alive and asking, which I'm not going to do. Still, the worst that could happen here is that I get regular Mammon memories in my blood, so I guess I'll give it a go.

...And this is where you really made a mistake. Bottle it up, keep it in the Ring... Apply it only when needed.

Activate glands manually. Don't activate his brain. And I need to collect… That stuff? Scan and analyse, and add that to my blood and put Mammon in subspace just in case.

Okay, one potential crisis averted, probably. Now back to the other ninety nine.

And he didn't even make a save point before he did it. Oh, this is so going to go poorly.

So many Alt!Pauls seem to have a habit of poorly-thought-out self-augmentations, don't they? Let's hope this doesn't cause him to become more Goa'uld-y in temperament, start believing the 'I am a God' lines and all that. Otherwise all his little plans and plots could come crashing down like a house of cards meeting a hyperactive toddler...

Mr Zoat · Tuesday at 6:46 AM

Darko said:
Not all of them will be eaten.

Some will be placed into slave soldiers and sent out to die.

I've never seen a statement on how mature the prim'ta are when they're eaten. Logically, they need more Jaffa than they do subordinate goa'uld, so I'm assuming that it takes place after they reach physical maturity.

"They alone"

Thank you, corrected.

Someguy Somewhere · Tuesday at 6:53 AM

Hmm if he does stick the clone snake in his head he could replicated to tokra style connection points rather then the standard, give himself more freedom

Lord Ernest · Tuesday at 7:05 AM

While a clever solution to his current predicament, I think it would be better for him to clone and assimilate Mammon to replace Am-Heh. That way he has the proper Goa'uld within him, he already has the knowledge Am-Heh provided and it would also add the knowledge that Mammon had, he could even have Am-Heh inhabit some cloned body and have a trustworthy subordinate as well!

Not to mention, as others have said, making modifications to his body without taking consideration of possible repercutions. What a classic mistake for these SIs.

You know, on further thought, hunting some reprehensible Goa'uld to assimilate sounds like a great idea. He could easily have more subordinates completely loyal and with similar abilities to himself. I think he could sell it easily enough and benefit greatly from it. Then again it might just be me, I reallh like Assimilation and it's been so long since it was used or significant.

Splinterface · Tuesday at 7:15 AM

I'll be honest Poa'uld, I wouldn't call introducing goa'uld DNA into your body "crisis aversion", so much as "loading Chekhov's Gun while you moon The Fates" - also having flashbacks to that one Paul that accidentally made himself a sociopath - then mindcontrolled his entire world.
Speaking of sociopath supervillain Paul, I hope he gets his comeuppance one day. Hopefully at the hands of Paul!Ragon, with the power of friendship and a justice league which has not been ensalved, but I'd take what vengeance I can get.

NightmareWarden · Tuesday at 7:58 AM

Sounds like a few of the Goa'uld are going to "discover" that Mammon is a Harcesis. Perhaps one of the ones planning an invasion, during a battle? That would make Paul sweat.

Mr Zoat · Tuesday at 8:21 AM

Someguy Somewhere said:
Hmm if he does stick the clone snake in his head he could replicated to tokra style connection points rather then the standard, give himself more freedom

Right until the goa'uld decides that it wants a normal connection and doesn't want to ever sub him in.

Lord Ernest said:
While a clever solution to his current predicament, I think it would be better for him to clone and assimilate Mammon to replace Am-Heh. That way he has the proper Goa'uld within him, he already has the knowledge Am-Heh provided and it would also add the knowledge that Mammon had, he could even have Am-Heh inhabit some cloned body and have a trustworthy subordinate as well!

He can't assimilate a corpse. He'd have to make Mammon alive and then assimilate him.

Splinterface said:
I'll be honest Poa'uld, I wouldn't call introducing goa'uld DNA into your body "crisis aversion", so much as "loading Chekhov's Gun while you moon The Fates" - also having flashbacks to that one Paul that accidentally made himself a sociopath - then mindcontrolled his entire world.
Speaking of sociopath supervillain Paul, I hope he gets his comeuppance one day. Hopefully at the hands of Paul!Ragon, with the power of friendship and a justice league which has not been ensalved, but I'd take what vengeance I can get.

When last seen, that version was not a sociopath.

Splinterface · Tuesday at 8:28 AM

Mr Zoat said:
Right until the goa'uld decides that it wants a normal connection and doesn't want to ever sub him in.

He can't assimilate a corpse. He'd have to make Mammon alive and then assimilate him.

When last seen, that version was not a sociopath.

Huh. What was the guys deal who took over the world? I might've been mixing up two alternate Pauls - I mostly recall one Paul explaining to the Jade that returned with him that what he'd done to Wonder Woman was more like murder than rape, and I just assumed it was the one who accidentally made himself a sociopath.

So just for clarity, are you saying that they are separate Pauls, the one who mind-controlled the entire justice league, and the one who accidentally made himself a sociopath, or are you saying that the Paul who made himself a sociopath has since cured himself but then went on to mind-control the justice league anyways?

Or is it some mixture of the two? Or something different entirely and I've completely lost the plot?

If it was anything like the accidentally a sociopath Paul having cured himself, could you link that chapter because I think I missed and I don't even know where to begin looking for it.

m_d · Tuesday at 8:46 AM

Mr Zoat said:
Okay, those desires came from somewhere, so… Expend upon that desire with actual information.

Expand

I think that this could also go really well, and I hope it does. There isn't an actual body inside him to interact with the memory bits in a controlling way. A host normally doesn't get independent access to the memories in a way that would overwhelm them in a replace-the-original kind of way. Otherwise all of Bastet's previous hosts would essentially be Bastet after she left them. And even in a harcecis child, who does have the memories, they aren't bound to behave the same way as the parent(s), or it wouldn't be as dangerous for them to exist (if I understand correctly). With caveats that Goa'uld presumably have a certain amount of conscious control over their biology that would allow them to shape the effects of their interactions while they are alive, which wouldn't apply here since Mammon isn't.

I'm not sure that there's a way for for him to really effectively access the memories in a bulk way unless he uses the ring to try and extract information from it, whether directly, which might work given enough time and effort, or using Mammon's reconstructed body as a filter, (which as long as it isn't functionally alert and connected to his brainstem, which I don't anticipate Paul doing given that even in this case, he created a dead version) which shouldn't be an issue either way since if it's via the ring, it's under Paul's control so long as he wants it to be. While Carter was able to access some of Jolinar's memories with meditation and faintly through association in flashes, she doesn't have full access to the Goa'uld tech tree or anything. You can make an argument that that may not be a fully applicable point of comparison since Tok'Ra may not have the same approach, since they have a vested interest in secrecy. I mean, yes, if he's got a version of the original ring that mainline Paul got then it doesn't have the same amount of automatic support as later versions, but it's still much more capable of the heavy lifting of specifically having effects that match the intent and desire of the wielder than some versions of locked down green ones. I doubt that Paul would be unclear enough about his desires that the ring could misunderstand what kind of access he wanted.

Although, we don't know whether that's what this ring is. It could have any number of origins and it's been hinted that there may be mysterious alternate paths involved. For all we know, an Ancient thought it'd be an interesting project to try to connect to something and found a way that had a conceptual shape in the Honden that mirrors the lantern and ring structure Paul's familiar with. From a storytelling perspective, it could be interesting to see both how Paul's project works, and also the worldbuilding of how the ring and lantern fits into the Stargate continuum's structure. I'm personally more interested in seeing this develop along the lines of, for example, the two Warhammer story-lines, than seeing things go horribly wrong. Of course, I'm not the author, so I'll be content to wait and see how he proceeds.

WereDragon · Tuesday at 11:49 AM

Mr Zoat said:
Because the only way this 'ends' well for me is if Bastet becomes Supreme System Lord.

Eh, worst comes to worst he flies off into deep space and does some cosmetic surgery before someone who is in no way affiliated with Mammon turns up to take part in the new galactic order.
Just means all the people he has claimed will die. Plus the catastrophic losses caused by the current galactic order collapsing violently. Plus his current bad girl of choice will be dead.

Still, the worst that could happen here is that I get regular Mammon memories in my blood, so I guess I'll give it a go.

You would be amazed at how much having the wrong thing in your blood can mess you up.

Darko · Tuesday at 11:50 AM

Splinterface said:
Huh. What was the guys deal who took over the world? I might've been mixing up two alternate Pauls - I mostly recall one Paul explaining to the Jade that returned with him that what he'd done to Wonder Woman was more like murder than rape, and I just assumed it was the one who accidentally made himself a sociopath.

So just for clarity, are you saying that they are separate Pauls, the one who mind-controlled the entire justice league, and the one who accidentally made himself a sociopath, or are you saying that the Paul who made himself a sociopath has since cured himself but then went on to mind-control the justice league anyways?

Or is it some mixture of the two? Or something different entirely and I've completely lost the plot?

If it was anything like the accidentally a sociopath Paul having cured himself, could you link that chapter because I think I missed and I don't even know where to begin looking for it.

The first time we saw Tangseid he had already mond controlled everyone.

But that chapter took place in his universes future.

The next time we saw him it was before that.

He first took a super serum that turned him into a sociopath, but was later convinced to reverse it and went back to normal.

He later got his hands on an evil mind control amulet that probably corrupted him.

Splinterface · Tuesday at 12:16 PM

Darko said:
The first time we saw Tangseid he had already mond controlled everyone.

But that chapter took place in his universes future.

The next time we saw him it was before that.

He first took a super serum that turned him into a sociopath, but was later convinced to reverse it and went back to normal.

He later got his hands on an evil mind control amulet that probably corrupted him.

Oh, okay - guess that Paul just has real bad luck w/ mind altering substances huh - thank you for the explanation, I appreciate it.

Chaoswind · Tuesday at 12:17 PM

Someguy Somewhere said:
Dangerous games to be playing with your own biology, and no proper testing or rigour. I'm sure the other OLs weep for the proper scientific method.

Seriously, operating solo makes AtlPauls do some silly things without someone with common sense to keep an eye on him.

He has thousands of scans of the biology of other goalud, getting Mammon hormones into his body barely counts as doping. If we are talking about mental influences then the ring and the lantern will do far worse.

Neruz · Tuesday at 12:47 PM

Mr Zoat said:
I've never seen a statement on how mature the prim'ta are when they're eaten. Logically, they need more Jaffa than they do subordinate goa'uld, so I'm assuming that it takes place after they reach physical maturity.

The ones we see being ritually eaten appear to be fully mature, so it's not unreasonable to assume that yeah, they're eaten after maturing inside a Jaffa.

WereDragon said:
You would be amazed at how much having the wrong thing in your blood can mess you up.

In the Stargate-verse, sticking alien stuff in your blood has about a 50/50 chance of messing you up or granting you superpowers.

Often it does both.

Zig · Tuesday at 1:30 PM

Someguy Somewhere said:
Dangerous games to be playing with your own biology, and no proper testing or rigour. I'm sure the other OLs weep for the proper scientific method.

Seriously, operating solo makes AtlPauls do some silly things without someone with common sense to keep an eye on him.

Renegade, Tangseid, and the Angel immediately spring to mind as versions who were even less careful.

Chaoswind · Tuesday at 1:39 PM

Again he has thousands of scans of what Goa'uld hormones in the blood stream do to their human host, he is pretty much just doping with alien eel steroids, his personality isn't going to be significantly changed, but his physical body will be stronger and will eventually develop the known withdrawal symptoms. Also he will taste correctly to Bastet whenever she decides to tongue kiss him and do the nasty.

That being the entire reason why he needed to do it.

Mr Zoat · Tuesday at 1:41 PM

Splinterface said:
Huh. What was the guys deal who took over the world? I might've been mixing up two alternate Pauls - I mostly recall one Paul explaining to the Jade that returned with him that what he'd done to Wonder Woman was more like murder than rape, and I just assumed it was the one who accidentally made himself a sociopath.

So just for clarity, are you saying that they are separate Pauls, the one who mind-controlled the entire justice league, and the one who accidentally made himself a sociopath, or are you saying that the Paul who made himself a sociopath has since cured himself but then went on to mind-control the justice league anyways?

Or is it some mixture of the two? Or something different entirely and I've completely lost the plot?

If it was anything like the accidentally a sociopath Paul having cured himself, could you link that chapter because I think I missed and I don't even know where to begin looking for it.

So far, the part between him fixing his brain and taking over the world hasn't been covered.

m_d said:
Expand

Thank you, corrected.

BartlettMagic · Tuesday at 4:18 PM

Darko said:
They took his DNA without his permission or knowledge in order to make a slave weapon that would kill him.

bah, empty details that the public will probably never know or care about. again, we're post-AntiLife here. "Hey world, would you like some more Supermen?" "Yes please"

m_d · Tuesday at 6:38 PM

Mr Zoat said:
"I hadn't thought of it like that." She frowns. "Actually, aren't there a lot more prim'ta in jaffa than you need to replace your numbers?"

I breathe in sharply. "Oooh, yes."

"So, what happens to them? If you can't work together, it seems that you should have a whole lot of adult goa'uld. And you don't, so where are they?"

"They get eaten."

She blinks. "Excuse me?"

"They get eaten. I sometimes wonder if that's why Ra didn't use jaffa; he recognised that while it was a convenient way to get physically superior soldiers it would just create problems in the longer term."

She's starting to look disturbed. "So… Do you just throw them in a lake or.. something?"

"No, no. Mature prim'ta with no host to move into get stuck in storage jars and then eaten by the dominant goa'uld in the area in what is probably a re-enactment of our instinctual pre-sophoncy culling practice."

Mr Zoat said:
I'm trying not to think about how many of my children would end up getting eaten. That's something that I'm... Going to want to do something about if they actually end up being mine.

I wonder if he's going to try to develop an equivalent to Tretonin as a result. It might not directly affect the culling practices, but it could reduce the need for primta, which might change the birth rate even if it would require modified supply lines for Jaffa. Alternately, he could try to change Bastet's faction's forces to use Ra's practice of having more heavily equipped soldiers instead of Jaffa, but that would probably be a much bigger change, and would also have more social pressures against it. There's something to be said for long lived trusted retainers, and having gotten used to them, giving them up would require a very convincing argument.

Darko · Tuesday at 8:46 PM

BartlettMagic said:
bah, empty details that the public will probably never know or care about. again, we're post-AntiLife here. "Hey world, would you like some more Supermen?" "Yes please"

I'll repeat it once more, they took his DNA without his knowledge or consent in order to make something that could kill him.

They're very likely to care about that not-so-little detail.

Odysseus2099 · Tuesday at 11:59 PM

Any ideas what Mammon would ask for from the Controller if and when he finally shows up? Based on what he's been doing previously, my best guess is he'd end up trading for the designs for Darkstar armor for arming Bastet's Jaffa. Of course I've been wrong before, I'd predicted that Krono would trade for brain scans and DNA samples from Adam Blake, but that turned out not to happen (at least not yet, there's still Fallout's eldritch plot that could end in him trading away some Old One crap).

Other going predictions are P'ol (40k Paul) asking for Zeta-Ray technology cause interstellar teleportation is the sort of thing that would revolutionize the Tau economy, and Sir Paol (WH fantasy) who would probably trade for an uplift library.

Mr Zoat · Wednesday at 6:15 AM

April 27th, 2013
09:59 EST

"Otis, what the h-?" Miss Teschmacher bites down whatever she was going to say. "What was that?"

"Oh, you don't need to worry-"

"I got chased around by a killer farming robot, I think I-"

"-about the billing."

"-need to-. What?"

"You don't need to worry about the billing. They were previous generation missiles we had in inventory. Not good enough for rich countries and not cheap or simple enough for poor ones. They were already written off, so there's no need for internal billing."

"I wasn't worried about the billing, Otis. I was worried about dying!"

"Sure, you were worried about dying. That's natural. But you didn't die. The robots which tried to kill you got destroyed, and we're loading them up for full decommissioning now."

She sighs. "And I'll have to talk to the police…"

"Ah, why?"

"For insurance. And because someone took a swing at LexCorp and we don't have the resources we used to so we can't be sure we can find them better than the police can. It's not like we're doing anything illegal here."

"Ah…"

"Are we?"

"I mean, I don't think so? I do security, not farming law. Do you wanna talk to Legal?"

"That's not what I meant."

"Okay, what did you mean?"

"Why aren't we telling the police?"

"Because we know who did it. And you know Mister Luthor says that the insurance companies are held together with paper and rainbows these days."

"So we're just not claiming-? We know who did it?"

"Sure. It's not complicated. And yeah, whole classes of assets lost insurance during the Anti-Life thing because there were too many claims to pay out. Most LexCorp stuff isn't financially insured."

"It can't have been the Justice League. He's Wonder Woman's son."

"Of course it wasn't the Justice League. The medic checked you out, right? You didn't get hit on the head? Concussion can be-."

"I didn't get hit on the head."

"Now, you say that, but concussion can interfere with your short term memory, and… I don't want to have to insist, but-."

"Fine, I'll get checked out. So who was it?"

"Normal procedure. For recuiting-."

"Who are-? No. Otis, do not tell me you were trying to do a Wounded Gazelle Gambit?"

"Technically, no. It's really more of a heroic honeypot saviour complex thing. The idea is-."

"I know what the idea is! It's basically the only reason why Janet in reception still has a job!"

"Right. So, we put the potential recruit who's been keeping their powers quiet somewhere with someone, and they reveal those powers to them in order to keep them safe. Psychologically, it reinforces-."

"I just said I know what the idea is."

"But you're acting like you don't, so-."

"That plan calls for using an attractive woman close to the target's age. He lives with Wonder Woman, and a island full of Amazons."

"Heh, yeah. I don't see the problem."

"Ah-. O-kay… Thank you..?

"Most teenaged guys aren't really that fussy about secondary stuff when it comes to short term attraction. A positive response from an attractive woman as more or less the same effect, regardless of relative attractiveness."

"He got cut, Otis."

"No, he came out of the tube like that."

"With the robot's circular saw. He was bleeding. Did we power the robots with kryptonite again? Because from a farming point of view, that's a really problematic independent variable."

"No? There shouldn't be anything here powerful enough to hurt him."

"Something was."

"Uh… We never.. did find out how the Alien stabilised his brain. I suppose they… Might have induced some sort of extra weakness, based on Project K-R's physiology."

"Are you kidding me right now? Those robots aren't cheap, Otis! We didn't check if he even has powers?!"

"… Huh."

"What exactly was the plan if I got cut in half? What was the plan if he got cut in half?"

"I've got a funeral suit."

"That's it?! So the robots attacked us, and if he couldn't fight them off or just decided that I wasn't worth losing his secret identity over, we died?!"

"No, of course not. I was on overwatch, and Enginehead could take control at any point. I just couldn't come close in case he heard the rotor blades."

"At any point?"

"Well, okay, there'd be a slight delay; the system isn't really designed for that sort of control. But-"

"Geee-zus!"

"-I don't think that would have happened. Did you actually see the cut?"

"W-? Ye-. No, not the actual cut, but I saw blood!"

"The Alien has used jam, ketchup and red ink mixed with P.V.A. to fake wounds before. You shouldn't assume he got hurt unless you saw it with your own eyes."

"So you think..? He was always safe, and the only reason it looked like we were in danger is that he doesn't want to use powers in front of me?"

"Yeh."

"Are you sure Lex signed off on this?"

"I was right there when he said it. Normal procedure."

"We can't do the same thing again. He might call on his friends and family to investigate."

"That's a good point. Hm. I'll need to review the tapes and see if he was using his powers just a little. If we can spot that, you could talk to him about that in 'confidence'."

"As long as you don't expect me to actually honeypot him."

"He's three years old, Eve. I don't think-."

"He's three!?"

I give my head a small shake, returning my hearing to focusing on my immediate environment: the sky way above the farm complex, high enough that I can't be seen from the ground. It's a.. shame, but… I guess compared to some things LexCorp's done it's not that bad. I'll just have to keep in mind that next time they try, it's a fake.

RichardWhereat · Wednesday at 6:26 AM

Oof. Yeah, here's hoping it's a fucking fake next time.

Boy who cried wolf. Does no one remember that story?

Darko · Wednesday at 6:26 AM

Mr Zoat said:
"It can't have been the Justice League. He's Wonder Woman's son."

"Of course it wasn't the Justice League

And even if he wasn't there, hacking into robots to make them kill isn't exactly League policy.

Mr Zoat said:
That plan calls for using an attractive woman close to the target's age. He lives with Wonder Woman, and a island full of Amazons."

"Heh, yeah. I don't see the problem."

Mitchell's attraction may honestly lean towards older women.

Granted, given his actual age, any woman is older.

Mr Zoat said:
With the robot's circular saw. He was bleeding. Did we power the robots with kryptonite again? Because from a farming point of view, that's a really problematic independent variable."

Yeah, getting cancer from carrots would not make a good sales pitch.

Mr Zoat said:
unless you say it with

"you saw"

Mr Zoat said:
"I was right there when he said it. Normal procedure

Does Otis think that Luthor meant normal procedure like something similar they do when dealing with Superman?

Because judging by what we saw in Luthor's POV, he wanted him treated like a regular intern.

Or is this how they treat actual interns?

Given the fact that LexCorp is run by a supervillain, it may be possible.

Mr Zoat said:
"As long as you don't expect me to actually honeypot him."

"He's three years old, Eve. I don't think-."

"He's three

Lady, you may wanna consider a change in career.

Mr Zoat said:
I give my head a small shake, returning my hearing to focusing on my immediate environment: the sky way above the farm complex, high enough that I can't be seen from the ground. It's a.. shame, but… I guess compared to some things LexCorp's done it's not that bad. I'll just have to keep in mind that next time they try, it's a fake

So Mitchell has been listening the whole time.

Well at least the manipulation may not work so well.

Granted, the last sentence makes me think he'll be in for a surprise.

Neruz · Wednesday at 6:34 AM

Mr Zoat said:
"I was right there when he said it. Normal procedure."

Ah yes, and there's the miscommunication I thought might happen: When Lex said 'normal procedure' he meant 'normal procedure for a normal person' and what his minions heard was 'normal procedure for superhumans.'

Thas what we call 'an oops.'

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