With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Stsword]

That was a bit harsh on Ryand'r, no?

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Especially since Zoat changed the story from where it was Blackfire's fault.

Darkfire was literally an infant when his sister was given to the Citadel. So Darkfire was a bit busy wearing diapers and saying "Da Da!" to be responsible for interplanetary politics.

And I do mean sister, not sisters. Blackfire willingly joined the Citadel, where her hobbies were torturing and having Starfire raped. As a reward for betraying her people and helping the Citadel conquer Tamaran.

Then Primus recruited Darkfire to be the communication officer of the Omega Men. Yes, Darkfire was recruited to be their Uhura.

Where he got captured on his first mission and subjected to the same experiment his sisters were, giving him the ability to sheave his hands in a corona of energy.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

In a universe with time travel how much does the last really matter?

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Not a lot, but it matters even less when DC retcons major events a couple of times a month.

 

[Mr Zoat]

8th February
19:14 GMT

The gordanian militia on the ground keep nervously glancing up at me as they help the injured from the beached boats. They appear to be pulling out, an en-masse evacuation of the regions under the karnan fleet's guns. Which is sensible, but…

Where are they going to go?

The gordanian fleet -such as it is- could in theory send transports to ferry them over to Gordane, but that would put them within range of the karnan fleet's guns. And while the karnans might not want to risk leaving their positions to fire on a heat source they don't think is karnan, actual ships would be far more inviting targets. Gordanians have ocean-going ships, but most large-scale travel and trade was done by aircraft rather than sea vessels. And there's certainly no tunnels under the water or bridges across it. And… It's not as if the karnan fleet isn't going to go after the slave-operated fisheries and mines on that part of the coastline once they've finished with the interior.

I could fly them over.

I could…

There are karnans on Gordane, but many fewer of them than there are here. Gordanians as a whole stuck pretty much all their heavy industry on their own home continent, but there is still plenty of manual labour they wanted karnans for. The clans…

I hadn't really thought about it, but clans like Gizzard Spiker and Tearing Bite didn't have much of a presence on Karettah. They just weren't that interested in agriculture or light industry. The clans who do-. Who did, are mostly clans who tend to avoid attacking anyone else. Yes, they owned karnan slaves, but that's more because karnans were the ones who were available rather than any sort of 'us versus them' mentality.

I frown as I look down at the militia members below me. Who are they from? Clans usually have their own command structures, but in emergency situations like this irregulars tend to rally around whoever looks like they know what they're doing. That's… Stone Turner, Dirt Eater, Meat Barter, Blunt Claw… All the clans my most recent map say had a presence in this region. This evacuation must have started when the karnan ships first arrived, for some of them to get this far. Not completely sure who's in charge.

One way to find out.

I drift down, provoking some nervous backing up. The four closest militia members drift towards one another, though none of them go for their weapons.

"Who is in charge here?"

Three sets of eyes jerk towards the fourth member of the cluster, while he turns to look for someone he can offload me onto. I can see the same fears on his surface as I see in everyone else, but they're more… Bound up in the tasks he's performing right now. Gordanians don't have a standard uniform, but based on his equipment and decoration I'd guess that he's a non-commissioned officer. Or just a veteran.

"Looks like you didn't step backwards fast enough."

"Story of my life. What does the Orange Lantern want with us?"

"I'd like to know where you're going?"

"You and me both." He flicks his tail. "The rest of you, go find something to do."

The three of them walk away to help offload the boats, and the non-com comes a little closer to me.

"All the heavy forts on this continent came under bombardment as soon as the karnans secured their position in orbit. And even if we could get to them, they can't survive that forever. Can't hide in the mines, can't hide in the woods. The karnans might accept our surrender once they've got the bloodlust out of their systems but that doesn't do us any good right now. Best chance we've got is to head as far away from their ships as we can and hope that someone's feeling generous."

"No one higher up in your clan-" Air hisses through his teeth. "-is organising things?"

"How? What's left of the gordanian fleet's over the horizon." I shake my head. "We use our ships as communication relays. Karnans are disrupting everything else. Without the ships, we've got no way to talk to anyone."

"Ocean ships?"

"If the karnans haven't grabbed them or sunk them, there won't be enough and we'd be easy targets on the journey." He looks away, his eyes turning up-river towards the karnan-held area. "Never thought I'd see this."

"Your reversal of fortunes?"

"Yeah. Karnans doing to us what our great grandparents did to theirs. Always just thought that things would carry on like they had." He snorts. "You got any use for a few hundred gordanian slaves?"

"Excuse me?"

"If it was just me, I'd try fighting them guerrilla style. See how much time I could buy. But it's not. My clan mates, my family are-" He looks at the refugee… It's not precise enough to be a column, and the terrain is too broken anyway. Stream? Swarm? "-back there, and I'd rather they survive as slaves than get killed. The karnans gave up shooting once you showed up, so they don't want to fight you. How about it?"

Hm. Tamaran could use additional agricultural workers, even with the thanagarian-Alstairian druids they've got helping them with that now. Not sure that they'd accept gordanians, even if they're not from clans that had any dealings with them before. This is… Far too many for the small colony Zaark has set up. Most other places I could send them are either too far away or not.. really appropriate.

"Do you think that your clan superiors would agree to an exchange? Karnans in their territory for gordanians here?"

"Ah. Some might. Mine would, but with this sort of war going on things are going to be getting run by a Grand Council, and… The Gizzard Spikers won't."

"And if I present them with a fait accompli?"

"What, you just show up with us and start making demands?" I nod. "Nothing helpful."

"It's your peoples' lives. Any time you want to suggest something, go ahead."

"There's nothing to say. No peace to be had. I guess you could trade us quietly, but you… Stand out."

As I suspected, but it's useful to have confirmation.

"No chance of a negotiated settlement?"

"Not that I can see."

Except… I'm an enlightened Lantern. Altering the desires of the people around me is simple. Doing it subtly is a little more difficult, but still well within my abilities.

Ah.

Pren's a telepath and Kalista is a magician. They've both got as yet unquantified ways to detect me trying something like that. Still, I'd rather this didn't turn into a slaughter and it's not as if trying risks anything significant.

"I'd like to try persuading the grand council to be reasonable. Could you find me a couple of your people who could act as witnesses?"

"Sure. May as well save two. Even if it's only for a few days."

"Why would it only be a few days?"

"There's no help coming. We killed ourselves, made the karnans' lives easier. No Citadel to back us up. Branx got their own problems, and we can't afford to hire anyone else. Any gordanian ship that isn't here has given up on keeping hold of this planet. Karnans are unified, full of hate, and their ships are all warships. Even if you did a swap, the karnans will go after Gordane before too long. They have to. And then, that's it."

"You think they'll exterminate you?"

"I think they'll kill enough that there won't be much difference. And if all of the karnans living in Gordane get evacuated, they'll have even less reason to try anything else."

"That's not usual for Vega, is it? The Citadel didn't do that to the Tamaraneans."

"This fleet came from outside of Vega. Maybe they learned something new." He turns away from me. "Come with me. I'll find you some 'reliable witnesses'."

 

[Razorfloss]

Well that's just unpleasant.

 

[Diraniola]

It's almost like one guy can't solve generations of slavery and war by himself in a way that makes everybody happy.

 

[Old Knife]

Yeah. This was right nasty. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

The gordanians militia on the ground keep nervously glancing up at me...

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Needs a possessive apostrophe?

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

The gordanians fleet -such as it is- could in theory send transports to ferry them over to Gordane, but that would put them within range of the karnan fleet's guns. And while the karnans might not want to risk leaving their positions to fire on a heat source they don't think is karnan, actual ships would be far more inviting targets. Gordanians have ocean-going ships, but most large-scale travel and trade was done by aircraft rather than sea vessels. And there's certainly no tunnels under the water or bridges across it. And… It's not as if the karnan fleet isn't going to go after the slave-operated fisheries and mines on that part of the coastline once they've finished with the interior.

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No way out. Either the gordanians fight to the death, or they prevail on someone to help them leave.

I frown as I look down at the militia members below me. Who are they from? Clans usually have their own command structures, but in emergency situations like this irregulars tend to rally around whoever looks like they know what they're doing. That's… Stone Turner, Dirt Eater, Meat Barter, Blunt Claw… All the clans my most recent map say had a presence in this region. This evacuation must have started when the karnan ships first arrived, for some of them to get this far. Not completely sure who's in charge.

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I'm not sure they do either, OL...

"Story of my life. What does the Orange Lantern want with us?"

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I'm guessing word hasn't spread that there's more than one, even with the Princesses around.

"No one higher up in your clan-" Air hisses through his teeth. "-is organising things?"

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I'm guessing there is no-one higher-up, in some cases.

"Yeah. Karnans doing to us what our great grandparents did to them theirs. Always just thought that things would carry on like they had." He snorts. "You got any use for a few hundred gordanians slaves?"

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Better enslaved than dead, eh?

Hm. Tamaran could use additional agricultural workers, even with the thanagarian-Alstairian druids they've got helping them with that now. Not sure that they'd accept gordanians, even if they're not from clans that had any dealings with them before. This is… Far too many for the small colony Zaark has set up. Most other places I could send them are either too far away or not.. really appropriate.

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And you don't really want to do anything significant to help anyway...

"Ah. Some might. Mine would, but with this sort of war going on things are going to be getting run by a Grand Council, and… The Gizzard Spikers won't."

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Ugh, warhawks. And not the thanagarian kind...

"There's nothing to say. No peace to be had. I guess you could trade us quietly, but you… Stand out."

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Kinda hard not to, between the orange glow and the reputation.

Except… I'm an enlightened Lantern. Altering the desires of the people around me is simple. Doing it subtly is a little more difficult, but still well within my abilities.

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I sense a 'But...'

Prin's a telepath and Kalista is a magician. They're both got as yet unquantified ways to detect me trying something like that. Still, I'd rather this didn't turn into a slaughter and it's not as if trying risks anything significant.

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Good luck reining in vengeance-fueled madness.

"There's no help coming. We killed ourselves, made the karnans lives easier. No Citadel to back us up. Branx got their own problems, and we can't afford to hire anyone else. Any gordanians ship that isn't here has given up on keeping hold of this planet. Karnans are unified, full of hate, and their ships are all warships. Even if you did a swap, the karnans will go after Gordane before too long. They have to. And then, that's it."

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He's already talking about himself in the past tense? Not much hope left, I suppose.

"I think they'll kill enough that there won't be much difference. And if all of the karnans living in Gordane get evacuated, they'll have even less reason to try anything else."

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No collateral damage to concern themselves with...

Messier and messier. My comparison to 80's Afghanistan gets more accurate every chapter...

 

[Buggy123]

It's almost like one guy can't solve generations of slavery and war by himself in a way that makes everybody happy.

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I mean, he's still close to Ophidi-chan. "Mind control a entire star cluster and get them to stop killing eachother" is still technically on the table.

 

[TheDudeMan400]

I mean, he's still close to Ophidi-chan. "Mind control a entire star cluster and get them to stop killing eachother" is still technically on the table.

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It's just a matter if Paul wants to or not.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Given just about every single thing I've ever read about the Gordanians . . . You'll have to forgive me if I don't sympathize with them in the slightest.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

This is going strange places.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Needs a possessive apostrophe?

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Ngamer11]

Getting similar vibes to what happened on Earth -14 here. No outcome is good, so go with the least bad.

I know Komand'r hates Ryand'r, but does Koriand'r hate him too?

 

[Cuchulin]

Yeah. This was right nasty. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

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I've heard that ironically the old "an eye for an eye" thing (which I THINK comes from the code of Hammurabi) was made law to prevent WORSE retribution.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Hm. Paul can still call upon his entire Corps.

Can't he ask for a few dozen Lanterns for a short term operation to ferry the Gordanians somewhere else?

And then manufacture them basic survival equipment?

 

[Sceptic]

Yeah. This was right nasty. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

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But in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

 

[Queshire]

In the land of the blind the one eyed man would be derided for making up crazy stories about "light" and "color."

 

[alid610]

The one eyed man just so happens to have two ravens and is apparantly odin.

 

[Sceptic]

In the land of the blind the one eyed man would be derided for making up crazy stories about "light" and "color."

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By those guys who died under mysterious circumstances while nobody else was looking?

 

[NightmareWarden]

I wonder if Teth Adom has any experience negotiating ceasefires. We know he's dismantled at least one government so reorganizing this chaotic restructuring could actually work out. Based on the comments I've seen nobody here trusts the Gordanians to look after themselves.

Y'know there is a schizotech supercomputer called a Motherbox that could handle the trustworthy requirement for a responsible government. It'd likely have more philosophical and sociological lessons than the rest of this pre-sci-fi setting too. And it isn't a city-sized supercomputer, but all New God tech probably rivals such a category. Am I missing any reason these devices wouldn't be passable interim dictators?

 

[Queshire]

By those guys who died under mysterious circumstances while nobody else was looking?

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I mean, then you just get a Justice League made up of one guy with a super sense of smell, another that does that whole blind monk thing, and... Actually a version of Batman would still be in theme. ANYWAYS! It'd be them against the evil visual-er.

 

[BR549]

I've heard that ironically the old "an eye for an eye" thing (which I THINK comes from the code of Hammurabi) was made law to prevent WORSE retribution.

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Exactly. It was, essentially, the same principle as mutually assured destruction - 'if you take mine, I take yours, so how about neither of us takes eithers'?'

Of course, then it went and became something where people believe it means the exact opposite; the reasons why are left as an exercise to the reader.

 

[Simonbob]

The one eyed man just so happens to have two ravens and is apparantly odin.

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Yup.


That's why he's King.

 

[Dakkan Sall]

Tamaran could use additional agricultural workers, even with the thanagarian-Alstairian druids they've got helping them with that now.

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I would think that both should be capitalized, "Thanagarian-Alstairian". Or, since any time "Gordanian" and "Karnan" have been used in the middle of a sentence, both lower-case. Either way, sticking with one or the would make it look better I believe.

They're both got as yet unquantified ways to detect me trying something like that.

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First off, should be "They've"

Second, and this one I'm not sure of at all, but it just seems like it should be either "as-yet" or "as of yet". Just scans better to me, but like I said not sure if they're actually right (or at least more/less right than the current usage).

 

[Lord Ernest]

The Gordanians don't get any special sympathy from me either. I'm still baffled that the Illustres hasn't left to do something more productive, why does he care enough to not want a massacre of the Gordanians but doesn't care enough to ferry them/save them? He didn't even know this was happening until he arrived just a little ago.

I mean, if they get massacred does the Galaxy lose anything? They aren't going extinct precisely and there's enough evil or 'morally grey' species out there that we don't really need these lizards; plus, they brought this roaring rampage of revenge on themselves I believe.
But if the massacre isn't acceptable, they could always be hired I guess? They make good mercenaries and/or warriors, supposedly, the war with the Reach will need a lot of warm bodies (for the Fleet/LEGION) or they could be marooned someplace (with or without Zaark's people) to see what they make of themselves.

 

[Stsword]

Given just about every single thing I've ever read about the Gordanians . . . You'll have to forgive me if I don't sympathize with them in the slightest.

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After Tamaran was destroyed, Garth convinced the Gordonians to accept the Tamaranean refugees. The price for this?

"The slave trade dries up each day as the system becomes a more civilized place and you have a reputation for being brainless thugs. The Tamaraneans have a good reputation though, with the Tamaranean's help, you can escape reliance on a dying industry and find a place for you among the New Vega Alliance."

Garth also convinced the Gordonian leaders that the Omega Men leading an invasion of the Gordonian homeworld was just a forceful opening statement in negotiations.

They accepted. On the condition "That Darkfire not be leader of the Tamaraneans, because he's an idiot." "Hey! Standing right here!"

While hardly altruistic, it's not often that comic book villains show enough sense to abandon villainy for mutually beneficial cooperation.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I would think that both should be capitalized, "Thanagarian-Alstairian". Or, since any time "Gordanian" and "Karnan" have been used in the middle of a sentence, both lower-case. Either way, sticking with one or the would make it look better I believe.

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Alstairian is capitalised because that's the planet they came from, while 'thanagarian' is their species.

First off, should be "They've"

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Thank you, corrected.

Second, and this one I'm not sure of at all, but it just seems like it should be either "as-yet" or "as of yet". Just scans better to me, but like I said not sure if they're actually right (or at least more/less right than the current usage).

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Afer a check I've now seen both, but I tink I'll leave it.

The Gordanians don't get any special sympathy from me either. I'm still baffled that the Illustres hasn't left to do something more productive, why does he care enough to not want a massacre of the Gordanians but doesn't care enough to ferry them/save them? He didn't even know this was happening until he arrived just a little ago.

I mean, if they get massacred does the Galaxy lose anything? They aren't going extinct precisely and there's enough evil or 'morally grey' species out there that we don't really need these lizards; plus, they brought this roaring rampage of revenge on themselves I believe.
But if the massacre isn't acceptable, they could always be hired I guess? They make good mercenaries and/or warriors, supposedly, the war with the Reach will need a lot of warm bodies (for the Fleet/LEGION) or they could be marooned someplace (with or without Zaark's people) to see what they make of themselves.

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If they continue fighting then many more on both sides will die, particularly if the fighting moves to the gordanians' home continent. Gordanians have slavery (including of other gordanians) as a normal part of their culture and aren't necessarily particularly cruel to them. Indeed, the SI has no evidence that this particular group have done anything.

 

[Coda]

I would think that both should be capitalized, "Thanagarian-Alstairian". Or, since any time "Gordanian" and "Karnan" have been used in the middle of a sentence, both lower-case. Either way, sticking with one or the would make it look better I believe.

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Zoat has decided on a writing convention that the names of species are normal nouns ("cat" "dog" "human") and the names of nationalities and ethnicities are proper nouns ("European" "Asian" "Terran"). So you have a species called gordanians, and some of those live on Karna, making them Karnans, but not karnans. And you have a species called karnans, and some of those live on Gordane, making them Gordanians, but not gordanians.

This was a decision he made relatively recently in the story's history. Originally he decided that all species names would be capitalized, because that allowed all of those terms to be treated equally, but he realized that it meant capitalizing Dog and Cat and such -- which eventually got to the point where he decided that it introduced MORE exceptions from the norm than it resolved.

 

[Nioz]

Am I missing any reason these devices wouldn't be passable interim dictators?

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As Common Sense Paul put it, out of the New Gods, the ones from New Genesis are the least bad. And they are rather Fascist. So just maaayyybe OG OL Paul is a bit leery on the topic of installing sentient tech from such a civ as an "benevolent interim dictator AI".

 

[narukaze132]

Y'know there is a schizotech supercomputer called a Motherbox that could handle the trustworthy requirement for a responsible government. It'd likely have more philosophical and sociological lessons than the rest of this pre-sci-fi setting too. And it isn't a city-sized supercomputer, but all New God tech probably rivals such a category. Am I missing any reason these devices wouldn't be passable interim dictators?

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I'm fairly confident that Paul doesn't have a Motherbox and that he has no viable means of acquiring one in the foreseeable future, let alone this episode, so it's kind of a moot point here.