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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
We don't know if that applies in this fic, and it seems like the sort of thing Zoat would avoid.

EDIT: That said though, considering that Granny's god stuff is all about shaping and guiding others (in a very twisted way) it would be conceptually appropriate if she sets things up specifically so that someone becomes the next Granny.
 
Queshire said:
We don't know if that applies in this fic, and it seems like the sort of thing Zoat would avoid.
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Yep.
EDIT: That said though, considering that Granny's god stuff is all about shaping and guiding others (in a very twisted way) it would be conceptually appropriate if she sets things up specifically so that someone becomes the next Granny.
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Fortunately, the Renegade used the Sword of the Fallen, which is specifically designed to deal with that sort of nonsense.
 
Pinklestia said:
Yeah.

Problem is, when New Gods get killed, thry get reborn later unless someone takes their place.

Hence why Orion must take Darkseid place or Darkseid will just come back.
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Except for all the times it's been shown that when New Gods die they just die.

They even have their own afterlife- Hadis, Valhalla in SPACE...ACE...ACE.

Knockout went to Hell when she died.

When Highfather died, he was replaced by Takion, who is not a god, new or otherwise, he's a Source Elemental. And despite all of Paul's muttering otherwise, those are very specifically not the same thing in DC.

What you are doing is taking a specific instance and applying that as a general rule, despite all the times comics have shown there is no such rule.

The Source/Presence didn't let Hal Jordan as the Spectre kill Darkseid because the evil of Apokalips would have caused Hal Jordan to go Eclipso and take his place.

1458869-thespectre19v4_12.jpg

The general rule that should be deduced from that is that Angels are prone to Falling in DC, because that one is actually true.
 
Lazurman said:
Wait, what the shit? I've been reading this thing for so long and I never caught that the "sword" was actually a funky tuning fork?
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Isn't there a picture of it somewhere? I was sure I posted one.

Sword-of-the-Fallen.jpg


It's not a tuning fork, but it isn't very big. The person holding it in that image is the size of a toddler.
 
Stsword said:
Except for all the times it's been shown that when New Gods die they just die.
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Only for them to get back to life later.

Name one New God that didn't get replaced that stayed dead.

Edit: Knockout and Barda don't count as a real New Gods, they don't have domains, they are just elite mooks.
 
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Also, Zoat probably gave Big Barda and Knockout domains of some sort? If Stompa is the New God of Stomping, Barda is probably the New God of Rods (though maybe Defense?, Protection?, Support?) and Knockout is probably the New God of Wrestling. Lashia is probably the New God of Whips? (Maybe Leather?) Kinda getting a possible BDSM theme with all of these.
 
Pinklestia said:
Only for them to get back to life later.

Name one New God that didn't get replaced that stayed dead.

Edit: Knockout and Barda don't count as a real New Gods, they don't have domains, they are just elite mooks.
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Lol.

Barda and Knockout are members of the elite of Apokalips, making them more powerful than 99+% of the species.

If they don't count then by that logic there is no such thing as New Gods as a group.

New Gods having a "domain" means jack and shit in the comics. It's useless puffery the writers made to make the New Gods seem important and powerful without actually going to the effort of making them either.

The Forever People were the New Gods of Youth, Vykin the Black has magnetism powers for crying out loud. As if magnetism has anything to do with youth.

So the difference between a new god who has useless shit and a new god who does not have useless shit is nothing, because useless shit makes no difference to begin with.

And New Gods who stayed dead? Have you read the New God comics? They die all the freaking time.

You can find New Gods who stayed dead without even leaving the As- Like Lightray's older brother and Orion's best friend who had his entire family slaughtered by Bugs, and Highfather's wife who was murdered by DeSaad.
 
It should be noted that there isn't a clean distinction between "sword" and "knife". The Sword of the Fallen has a crossguard and a pommel, though, which are very sword-like traits and not very knife-like traits. There's definitely no "if it's above this size it's a sword, if it's below this size it's a knife" line -- the best counterexample is the messer, which is traditionally considered a knife, but has been found in sizes as large as 44 inches from end to end. Conversely, the seax is traditionally considered a sword despite coming in sizes as short as 12 inches.

thebishop8 said:
Edit: And it's only upside down, not backwards. If it were both, it would look like this: pǝuɹɐǝ˥ suossǝ˥
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If you interpret "upside down" as being rotated 180 degrees instead of flipped vertically, then it IS upside down and backwards.
 
Buggy123 said:
Look, the person who made the sword basically killed and condensed the essence of two of the most powerful demons in Hell into a fucking knife.

They earned the right to call it what they want.
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She didn't kill them. She just arranged for them to die by letting the First know that the Second and Third were just really powerful demons and not anything special. At which point, he curbstomped them and left the loot drops laying around while he went to get revenge on Constantine.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Isn't there a picture of it somewhere? I was sure I posted one.

Sword-of-the-Fallen.jpg


It's not a tuning fork, but it isn't very big. The person holding it in that image is the size of a toddler.
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The foreshortening perspective makes it hard to tell how long it is in comparison to the person. Was the size of the person specified when the image was originally posted?
Coda said:
It should be noted that there isn't a clean distinction between "sword" and "knife". The Sword of the Fallen has a crossguard and a pommel, though, which are very sword-like traits and not very knife-like traits. There's definitely no "if it's above this size it's a sword, if it's below this size it's a knife" line -- the best counterexample is the messer, which is traditionally considered a knife, but has been found in sizes as large as 44 inches from end to end. Conversely, the seax is traditionally considered a sword despite coming in sizes as short as 12 inches.
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Daggers meant for combat often have a pommel and it's common for even non-combat knives to have a crossguard of some kind as it's primarily a safety feature. IIRC, the messer was called a knife for legal/production purposes. The shorter types of seax being call swords was probably the people of the time being lazy about the nomenclature.
Now that we do know how small the SOTF is, it makes a lot more sense to me why Grayven uses that diklave even when he has the SOTF with him.
As big as he is, he could keep a knife/sword that size up his sleeve on a spring-holster.
 
Conqueror's Moon (part 25)
  • Threadmarks
    • 27th December 2004
    22:20 GMT -5

    I-

    Wall!

    -just about keep my grip on the Sword of the Fallen, but my construct needler and supply of needles are gone. No immediate follow-.

    I see the gun muzzle and interpose a construct shield just before it fires, energy washing over it. The shield survives, but it's so heavily abraded that I abandon the construct as the gun retreats.

    Would Kanto keep attacking if I killed Grayven? Can't really see the New God of Assassins stopping just because his sponsor is killed. On the other hand… Is he the New God of Assassins? I shouldn't assume that just because he's a New God who works as an assassin. He might well be God of Intrigue or something and Darkseid found him most useful as an assassin. If that's true, he wouldn't kill me unless there was some sort of payoff for doing so.

    Grayven 50 is still standing, but there's a slight shaking in the damaged parts of his armour that suggests to me that it's taking an effort for him to maintain the front. Rayner is fighting the handful of Dog Soldiers who came through the boom tube before Scott shut it down while Barda and Stompa are whaling on each other with abandon, blood seeping from a dozen wounds on each. Scott and Doctor Impossible are.. dancing around one another, although I dimly get the impression that there's more going on than that.

    Lashina has made her way over to the injured Grayven, her son floating protectively above them. Looks like they've made a few alterations to his helmet. I suppose that even in times of hardship the elite can generally get hold of what they need in order to remain effective.

    "Lashina. Apokolips is a dung heap. I will offer you and your son sanctuary and a far higher quality of life than you presently receive if you'll step aside." Majestic Generosity.

    "You.. killed Granny."

    "I think he-" I point to Grayven. "-got in there ahead of me."

    I remember in the comics that Parademon rather liked being tortured by Granny Goodness, and slept better after being seriously hurt than he did usually. With both Darkseid and Granny Goodness dead, Lashina… Probably doesn't know what she's supposed to be doing.

    "There's no one to tell me what to do anymore."

    I glance at Bernadeth. "Except Bernadeth, Desaad and… Kalibak? Look, even if you win… How do you benefit? You get the same position under Grayven that you had under Darkseid, only he's far weaker. The gordanians won't follow you, I doubt that you have the knowledge to control or repair this ship. Be sensible." I spread out my hands. "Heck." I toss Granny Goodness's Mother Box to her. "Feel free to just take off. Go somewhere nice."

    "Ping."

    "I…"

    "Lashina." Grayven 50 pulls himself to his feet, left eye managing a weak and sporadic glow. "Obey me or be unmade." I Command Here!

    The response is immediate and obvious. Lashina attaches the Mother Box to her… Belt-thing, then adopts a combat pose. "Kill him, my son."

    I generate a reflective shield just in time to catch his heat vision, the thin line of wavering air bouncing off and striking Lashina's right shoulder. She winces and sidesteps to avoid it, but doesn't cry out or otherwise react. But I know what's coming next. Inertia shield. The boy spots what I'm doing an instant later and cuts it out-.

    And he's in my face again, punching-! The shield soaks it again, but this time he's not committing to individual strikes so much and his hand doesn't get caught. Just a volley-.

    There's a flicker of red from behind him and I throw out my legs, falling onto my arse as the omega beam blasts into the wall just above me. The boy kicks at my head but he's sufficiently distracted that I'm able to catch hold of his leg with my right hand. I grip it as tightly as I can but some combination of the armour and his innate toughness means that my grip doesn't do any damage. I get my feet back under me as he attempts to use his innate flight to loosen my hold. Not a good plan: experience tells me that he'd do better manually prying my fingers off. I use the opportunity to exert myself and smash him into the deck. Then stamp-.

    Darn, he dodged! He kicks my left leg-. Ow, armour holds, but he's strong enough to hurt me anyway. How do-? Air, his armour doesn't have an air supply. Purification filters? Gold kryptonite dust, transmute it. He kicks again, and my leg goes out from under me. I don't fall thanks to my rings, but it's-.

    Uragh! Do-wd! Nugh!

    R-right! Cold zone! Let's see how well insulated that armou-!

    The kryptonian stops, falling to the floor a short distance away from me, a film of hoarfrost covering his left side. I-. Shit, how do I breach his armour? My daiklave is.. over there, there's-.

    I snatch a dart and stab it into the jaw area of his helmet. It penetrates, and I see a small amount of blood-. More gold kryptonite! Gold kryptonite laser!

    "No!"

    Lashina darts towards me and I take a step back, dismissing my constructs. "He'll be fine. I don't like killing children. Yield."

    She slows to a stop next to her son, her eyes darting from me to him and back again. Then she picks him up and flees.

    "Okay." I float slowly towards Grayven 50. The flesh on my face is now just about covering all of the bone, there's a wobbliness in my left leg which suggests that the bone's broken and I think I'll wait until my torso is healed up before returning to the Mountain-. Before confirming Sunset's death. "That it?"

    His eyes are both flickering now. I think that cold beam did more damage than I was expecting.

    "No." "There's always another layer."

    "Desaad as we-?"

    There's a flare of light as the palm of my left hand evaporates in a blast of radion. Mmmm! My fingers and my ring drop to the deck and then the muzzle appears in front of my face.

    "Humans know how to resurrect your wife."

    The tube aperture moves backwards revealing the lithe form of Kanto, his gun pointed carefully at my head. "I doubt that."

    "Lazarus Pits, cloning combined with a séance, there are plenty of ways to manage it. I'll help you if you help me. She was killed by your predecessor, wasn't she? By an essentially conventional weapon? What has my alter ego even offered you?"

    "A return to normalcy on Apokolips."

    "I'm pretty sure I can match that."

    "Impress me." "An alliance of convenience until it is no longer convenient."

    He vanishes again, taking his gun with him. Fine. I'll need to cut off my stump later so it will regenerate, but I can function like this. I call the ring to my right hand instead, then look at Grayven.

    "And now?"

    Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom!
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Mr Zoat said:
    I-

    Wall!

    -just about keep my grip on the Sword of the Fallen, but my construct needler and supply of needles is gone. No immediate follow-.

    I see the gun muzzle and interpose a construct shield just before it fires, energy washing over it. The shield survives, but it's so heavily abraded that I abandon the construct as the gun retreats.
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    Boy, they are seriously harrying him. What did Granny do to engender such loyalty? ... No, wait, I don't want to know, it'd be too nasty.

    Would Kanto keep attacking if I killed Grayven? Can't really see the New God of Assassins stopping just because his sponsor is killed. On the other hand… Is he the New God of Assassins? I shouldn't assume that just because he's a New God who works as an assassin. He might well be God of Intrigue or something and Darkseid found him most useful as an assassin. If that's true, he wouldn't kill me unless there was some sort of payoff for doing so.
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    Hell, he may be the New God of Swagger, for all we know...

    Grayven 50 is still standing, but there's a slight shaking in the damaged parts of his armour that suggests to me that it's taking an effort for him to maintain the front. Rayner is fighting the handful of Dog Soldiers who came through the boom tube before Scott shut it down while Barda and Stompa are whaling on each other with abandon, blood seeping from a dozen wounds on each. Scott and Doctor Impossible are.. dancing around one another, although I dimly get the impression that there's more going on than that.
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    I bet the air between them is a swirling mess of Godspeech focus techniques...

    Lashina has made her way over to the injured Grayven, her son floating protectively above them. Looks like they've made a few alterations to his helmet. I suppose that even in times of hardship the elite can generally get hold of what they need in order to remain effective.

    "Lashina. Apokolips is a dung heap. I will offer you and your son sanctuary and a far higher quality of life than you presently receive if you'll step aside." Majestic Generosity.
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    Magnanimous, but you still need to win this fight to have that kind of bargaining power...

    "You.. killed Granny."

    "I think he-" I point to Grayven. "-got in there ahead of me."
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    At least between them they racked up some good Karma, ridding the universe of that evil.

    I remember in the comics that Parademon rather liked being tortured by Granny Goodness, and slept better after being seriously hurt than he did usually. With both Darkseid and Granny Goodness dead, Lashina… Probably doesn't know what she's supposed to be doing.

    "There's no one to tell me what to do anymore."
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    Is that what she wants? To be a follower? Isn't she concerned about her son's safety at all, beyond the health of a useful tool?

    I glance at Bernadeth. "Except Bernadeth, Desaad and… Kalibak? Look, even if you win… How do you benefit? You get the same position under Grayven that you had under Darkseid, only he's far weaker. The gordanians won't follow you, I doubt that you have the knowledge to control or repair this ship. Be sensible." I spread out my hands. "Heck." I toss Granny Goodness's Mother Box to her. "Feel free to just take off. Go somewhere nice."

    "Ping."
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    "Yes, That would be a sensible idea. I do hope she takes your advice."

    "Lashina." Grayven 50 pulls himself to his feet, left eye managing a weak and sporadic glow. "Obey me or be unmade." I Command Here!

    The response is immediate and obvious. Lashina attaches the Mother Box to her… Belt-thing, then adopts a combat pose. "Kill him, my son."
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    <Sigh> The conditioning runs too deep, I guess.

    I generate a reflective shield just in time to catch his heat vision, the thin line of wavering air bouncing off and striking Lashina's right shoulder. She winces and sidesteps to avoid it, but doesn't cry out or otherwise react. But I know what's coming next. Inertia shield. The boy spots what I'm doing an instant later and cuts it out-.

    And he's in my face again, punching-! The shield soaks it again, but this time he's not committing to individual strikes so much and his hand doesn't get caught. Just a volley-.
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    Ugh. An angry four-year-old with super-strength and -speed. This is going to be pleasant. [/sarcasm]

    There's a flicker of red from behind him and I throw out my legs, falling onto my arse as the omega beam blasts into the wall just above me. The boy kicks at my head but he's sufficiently distracted that I'm able to catch hold of his leg with my right hand. I grip it as tightly as I can but some combination of the armour and his innate toughness means that my grip doesn't do any damage. I get my feet back under me as he attempts to use his innate flight to loosen my hold. Not a good plan: experience tells me that he'd do better manually prying my fingers off. I use the opportunity to exert myself and smash him into the deck. The stamp-.
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    Correction: 'Then stamp'.
    Also, not a good idea to go easy because he's young. He is Apokaliptian born and raised.

    Darn, he dodged! He kicks my left leg-. Ow, armour holds, but he's strong enough to hurt me anyway. How do-? Air, his armour doesn't have an air supply. Purification filters? Gold kryptonite dust, transmute it. He kicks again, and my leg goes out from under me. I don't fall thanks to my rings, but it's-.

    Uragh! Do-wd! Nugh!

    R-right! Cold zone! Let's see how well insulated that armou-!
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    Frustrating as hell. He can't go full force, because little kid, but the kid doesn't have any such restraint...

    The kryptonian stops, falling to the floor a short distance away from me, a film of hoarfrost covering his left side. I-. Shit, how do I breach his armour? My daiklave is.. over there, there's-.

    I snatch a dart and stab it into the jaw area of his helmet. It penetrates, and I see a small amount of blood-. More gold kryptonite! Gold kryptonite laser!
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    Finally, an opening!

    "No!"

    Lashina darts towards me and I take a step back, dismissing my constructs. "He'll be fine. I don't like killing children. Yield."

    She slows to a stop next to her son, her eyes darting from me to him and back again. Then she picks him up and flees.
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    No love? To be expected, I suppose.

    "Okay." I float slowly towards Grayven 50. The flesh on my face is now just about covering all of the bone, there's a wobbliness in my left leg which suggests that the bone's broken and I think I'll wait until my torso is healed up before returning to the mountain-. Before confirming Sunset's death. "That it?"
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    To quote Twain, on Sunset's behalf: "Reports of my death were greatly exaggerated. Really, Grayven..."

    His eyes are both flickering now. I think that cold beam did more damage than I was expecting.

    "No." "There's always another layer."

    "Desaad as we-?"
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    This bit's a little mangled? And Grayven-50's just too damn stupid to give up, isn't he? Is he simply not used to losing?

    There's a flare of light as the palm of my left hand evaporates in a blast of radion. Mmmm! My fingers and my ring drop to the deck and then the muzzle appears in front of my face.
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    Mother-humper! Again with the fingers! What is the universe's problem with the Renegade's hands and eyes?

    "Humans know how to resurrect your wife."

    The tube aperture moves backwards revealing the lithe form of Kanto, his gun pointed carefully at my head. "I doubt that."
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    Say it with me: Earth. Bullshit. For the win.

    "Lazarus Pits, cloning combined with a séance, there are plenty of ways to manage it. I'll help you if you help me. She was killed by your predecessor, wasn't she? By an essentially conventional weapon? What has my alter ego even offered you?"

    "A return to normalcy on Apokolips."
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    Back to business as usual? How pathetic.

    "I'm pretty sure I can match that."

    "Impress me." "An alliance of convenience until it is no longer convenient."

    He vanishes again, taking his gun with him. Fine. I'll need to cut off my stump later so it will regenerate, but I can function like this. I call the ring to my right hand instead, then look at Grayven.
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    Heh, Ringnestro having to share space with the Orange-boy? How amusing.
    "And now?"

    Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom!
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    Oh come on! </Rainbow Dash> Give it up, gravy-boy. Cut your losses while you're ahead!

    Then again... This might not be Grayven-50's backup... New Genesis finally getting off its' ass?

    Godspeech for the 'midget computer' users: ;)
    Grayven 50 is still standing, but there's a slight shaking in the damaged parts of his armour that suggests to me that it's taking an effort for him to maintain the front. Rayner is fighting the handful of Dog Soldiers who came through the boom tube before Scott shut it down while Barda and Stompa are whaling on each other with abandon, blood seeping from a dozen wounds on each. Scott and Doctor Impossible are.. dancing around one another, although I dimly get the impression that there's more going on than that.
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    "Lashina. Apokolips is a dung heap. I will offer you and your son sanctuary and a far higher quality of life than you presently receive if you'll step aside." Majestic Generosity.
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    "Lashina." Grayven 50 pulls himself to his feet, left eye managing a weak and sporadic glow. "Obey me or be unmade." I Command Here!
    Click to expand...
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    His eyes are both flickering now. I think that cold beam did more damage than I was expecting.

    "No." "There's always another layer."
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    "I'm pretty sure I can match that."

    "Impress me." "An alliance of convenience until it is no longer convenient."
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    So was I the only one who thought Lashina was annoyed with Gravy 50 and had asked her son to kill him instead?

    Although now I'm thinking of a funny scene in which there was a miscommunication because junior guessed the wrong him when it came to the orders "kill him."
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    27th December 2004
    22:20 GMT -5
    I toss Granny Goodness's Mother Box to her. "Feel free to just take off. Go somewhere nice."
    The response is immediate and obvious. Lashina attaches the Mother Box to her… Belt-thing, then adopts a combat pose. "Kill him, my son."
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    I believe Granny had a Father box, not a mother box?
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom!
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    And there's the dues ex machina to save Renagades day. :p



    w34v3r said:
    Dammit Grayven! Stop god-flirting with the fucker and just kill him already.

    This isn't like with any other new god where you risk domain incorporation, you already have this mantle, and are doing a better job of it.
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    Yes I agree, Grayven is doing a better job of things then Paul.
     
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