With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Pinklestia]

Well, there's one obvious solution to this problem: give the Martians an external enemy to unite against.

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The problem is that's just the thing Renegade aka Noble Demon loves to do. So to avoid suspicious he can't do it.

I still think it will either end with someone accidentally waking up a Martian enemy and Grayven beibg blamed or Grayven ending so ANGRY he accidentally conkers Mars.

 

[Odysseus2099]

You mean, like Circe? Or Nylor Truggs?

Unless someone died, everyone in either timeline is around in the other.

Yes, but I'm not convinced that would be any better for armour penetration. For a start, it would turn into hydrogen gas or water at room temperature and pressure.

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I was under the impression the deuterium is the explosive core. The stuff triggered by the "mass reactive cap." The armor-piercing bit is the diamantine tip, presumably "Diamond but better". It's not very dense, so it's not great for armor penetration, which is why the specialized armor piercing round replaces it with an adamantium spike.

Also, the reason metallic hydrogen is considered the holy grail of rocket fuel is that it is supposed to be metastable. In theory it will remain solid at room temperature and pressure until you "set it off" somehow.

 

[PrinceJonathan]

So we went from Religion, to Gender Identity, and now White Power. HA! I love this story.

 

[rkyeun]

So we went from Religion, to Gender Identity, and now White Power. HA! I love this story.

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It's a self-insert fix fic with a ring powered by greed or godly force of conquest.
Of course fixing society and uplifting humanity to godhood is going to involve addressing some political issues holding us back.

 

[Mr Zoat]

It's a self-insert fix fic with a ring powered by greed or godly force of conquest.
Of course fixing society and uplifting humanity to godhood is going to involve addressing some political issues holding us back.

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But only political issues which date back at least twenty years, in accordance with QQ rules.

 

[Valint]

So we went from Religion, to Gender Identity, and now White Power. HA! I love this story.

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... yeah, I'm trying not to notice that. I'm hoping this doesn't end up being about how if you build a society with Reds in charge and using Green philosophy, it's all going to end up really to be about oppressing the Whites, until they finally have enough and rise up to take back their society.

 

[AidanMorgan]

But only political issues which date back at least twenty years, in accordance with QQ rules.

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I already miss the Funny rating.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I already miss the Funny rating.

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There's a suggestions section up the top there.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

Don't forget that the bolts are tipped with armour piercing water.
.

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*snickers*

I'd file that one under '38,000 years of language drift, technological regression and plain human stupidity' in universe, and ' it sounded cool when I wrote it' for sci-fi authors. Though the meta stable metallic hydrogen angle could work as an excuse, clearly it wasn't in mind when folks came up with most of the images for how those things work. You ever want to make a gun smith foam at the mouth, show them the cutaway on how a storm bolter supposedly works from the old 3rd ed rulebook. To save what little remains of my sanity, I generally have to follow along with the 'it's all real, but it's hardly accurate' for how GW does it's lore. Either that or just blame the Warp for when physics makes no sense.

As for the 40k highjacking of this thread?

*Ahem*

"We've Captured It For CHAOS!"

 

[rkyeun]

But only political issues which date back at least twenty years, in accordance with QQ rules.

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Fortunately, Mars is hella old.

 

[Handlewithcare]

I don't think so. Why?

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Isn't she a Star Saphire?

 

[helios]

Isn't she a Star Saphire?

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Colored quotation marks denote either Enlightenment or some other form of divergent mental effects as a result of exposure to one of the lights. Grayven is a Lantern and his quotation marks are uncolored. Guy Gardner has colored quotation marks as a result of his experiences bonded to Ion.

 

[Vaermina]

He has, but he hasn't told anyone that he has that.

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I guess Paul isn't asking the right questions then...

 

[Buggy123]

I guess Paul isn't asking the right questions then...

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Or, alternatively, the answer was simply 'no' and Paul didn't mention that he confirmed it with assimilated Vandal Savage because saying things like "I permanently mind-controlled my enemy and left him in the broom closet in case he's ever useful" is not something conducive to good public relations.

 

[2 Hot Crown Subdues the Sinful]

As for the 40k highjacking of this thread?

*Ahem*

"We've Captured It For CHAOS!"

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Paul gave Zatanna SoB power armor, what hijack?

 

[Stsword]

"Oh I think I have an idea. They probably have used shapechanging to copy metahuman abilities. That kind of thing is technically possible after all. But I wonder were they got the genetic samples?"

Really Grayven, is not like you can't explain their abilities with in universe knowledge.

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Well that would be a good guess, but since we readers know that the Hyperclan has a martian behind the curtain named Karmang, the sorcerer scientist, and that one of the Hyperclan has superspeed- ZüM and Zoat made magic the explanation for Flash superspeed, I suspect their supermartian powers have a more exotic explanation.

People do remember Paul running into Hyperclan, yeah?

Maybe we'll finally see Zoat's version of Karmang, I look forward to seeing what he did with him. In the comics he predates White Martians the race by nine hundred and eighty thousand years, but from Zoat's comments it sounds like Zoat intends for him to be an actual White Martian as opposed to a native martian who happens to be white.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

As for the 40k highjacking of this thread?

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Look man, I'm dealing with Gravies and Ponies....I gotta bring up something to stave off madness.

Also, again, I brought up the Heavy Bolter as an escalation example. Maybe After I get through this Ciaphas Cain novel I'll have a better example.

 

[Pinklestia]

The Fake Flash of the Hyperclan couldn't copy Flash powers even in the comics anyway, his super speed was based on that of Superman and he didn't really have much practice with it anyway.

Edit: Fun Fact: Since Bizarro is as fast as Superman is strong and Superman is one of the strongest characters in DC, that means Bizarro might be able to beat Flash on a race.

 

[Tyrantviewer]

What is the origin of the Hyperclan's powers in the comics, are they just using martian shapeshifting and telekinesis to fake/ imitate the powers (even if they can't copy things like superspeed and strength purely via shapeshifting, I could see them optimizing their body for the proper telekinetic enhancement, like star conquerers could enhance their claws with telekinesis) or did they have some other source of power that they used to boost themselves, or a mix of both (I don't remember if it was mentioned but I think that was what we thought was happening in this fic, someone with martian magic boosting Hyperclan members?).

It really brings home how broken some species are in DC, Martians may not all have the power of M'gann or J'onn but those who are strong in their natural abilities could reasonably match or surpass many Superhumans on earth, a planet well known for it's BS levels of power in its outliers...

Imagine OL brings some of his corps to Sol system to show them around

"Here is a planet which in ages past had it's surface destroyed in a war against the Genius superhumans who invented the rings we are now using, which involved altering their entire species via the emotional spectrum, they are a species of shapeshifting, telekinetic telepaths, with the only notable weakness being a psychological aversion to fire"

"Why would the Guardian's empower a race that went to war with them?"

"You misunderstand, this is what they are like after the guardians purposefully weakened them. Next stop Earth, whose dominant species has no notable standout capabilities compared to most sentient races, but regularly produces individuals who invent tech that surpases that of species that have been spacefaring for millenia, as well as having the most active magic users on any planet that doesn't focus on magic as the center of their technology, as well as a multitude of exceptional idividuals that have gained tremendous or odd powers from the aformentioned standout magic and science"

"..."

 

[Maxx Crowley]

What is the origin of the Hyperclan's powers in the comics, are they just using martian shapeshifting and telekinesis to fake/ imitate the powers (even if they can't copy things like superspeed and strength purely via shapeshifting, I could see them optimizing their body for the proper telekinetic enhancement, like star conquerers could enhance their claws with telekinesis) or did they have some other source of power that they used to boost themselves, or a mix of both (I don't remember if it was mentioned but I think that was what we thought was happening in this fic, someone with martian magic boosting Hyperclan members?).

It really brings home how broken some species are in DC, Martians may not all have the power of M'gann or J'onn but those who are strong in their natural abilities could reasonably match or surpass many Superhumans on earth, a planet well known for it's BS levels of power in its outliers...

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That just reminds me of the seemingly decades DC spent insisting, absolutely insistent, that the Martian Manhunter was more powerful than Superman, and could squash him.

But no one bought it. Like...ever.

Hell, even the writers saying it didn't. All I ever remember of J'onn was him showing up just in time for the NEWEST MOST DANGEROUS THREAT to stomp his green ass into the dirt to show how totally serious things were now.

But what I never understood was...why? Why the push that this one alien, who they had be terrified of fire, was so monstrously powerful?

 

[Legend of Ruina]

What is the origin of the Hyperclan's powers in the comics, are they just using martian shapeshifting and telekinesis to fake/ imitate the powers (even if they can't copy things like superspeed and strength purely via shapeshifting, I could see them optimizing their body for the proper telekinetic enhancement, like star conquerers could enhance their claws with telekinesis) or did they have some other source of power that they used to boost themselves, or a mix of both (I don't remember if it was mentioned but I think that was what we thought was happening in this fic, someone with martian magic boosting Hyperclan members?).

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Going over the comics with the Hyperclan, my impression is that the extra powers come from specific shapes. The last issue with them has one annoyed about J'onn stealing a form the member designed, and another member bragging about the hundreds of battle forms she knows. Also it's worth noting that this is at a point where the martians were only telepathic, not telekinetic. Admittedly there's barely any commentary either way, though the Hyperclan does show some at least one other trick that doesn't fit regular Martians, they somehow manipulated air temperature around the Sahara to make clouds form for a terraforming project. And the trees themselves grew unnaturally fast.

 

[Stsword]

The Fake Flash of the Hyperclan couldn't copy Flash powers even in the comics anyway, his super speed was based on that of Superman and he didn't really have much practice with it anyway.

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Tricks ZüM used in the comics according to dc database- traveling through walls (quite possibly using the standard Martian mechanism for such), making fragments of a wall explode like grenades, and leave after images of himself so Flash didn't know where he was at any given moment.

Of course, with the revelation that he's a white martian, it's possible those were all just telekinetic tricks, since martians are telekinetic.

DC database says that martian speed/flight is a combination of telekinesis, gravity manipulation, and magnetism, but doesn't provide a citation.

Since three explanations for martian flight seems like a bit much, I suspect that the comics have rather given three different explanations at different times.

Zoat however seems to be going for a different explanation

She turns her head a little, then freezes, perhaps surprised that the rest of her body doesn't follow. "My name is Z'üm Z'orr."

I take a moment to turn to face the other Martians.\

"Did none of you do a background check on the people you were working with?"

T'ronn frowns. "Z'orr? You actually believe in that?"

"How were you able to move that fast?""Magic."

"All the sorcerers on Mars are Red and I very much doubt that they'd help you. Answer honestly or I use these rings to compel you."

"Like your owners did our entire species?" What? My ow-? She.. knows about the Guardians?

"Distraction complete, Karmang. Get me out of-"Jam FTL and teleport!"-here."

Purple smoke roils around her. What has that signature? My rune stone comes out of subspace and.. a weak glow. Right, railgun, mageslay-.

 

[Gantradies]

The bar is set lower than a gnomish pub, so he's not necessarily wrong (if you exclude the Controllers and possibly Dox, obviously).
Ah yes, all that knowledge. One of his problems is that he doesn't necessarily know what's accurate, and some of what he does know is imprecise.

We shouldn't be expecting Spacebattles competence from him. Of course, we should also bitch about what an idiot he is if he hasn't started fixing at least some of the problems revealed by the theurgic beatdown he got, but I suspect that'll be coming up in the next episode (or this ones supplementals).
Known Space is a sci fi setting by Larry Niven, and one of the races is a bunch of proactive cowards called Pierson's Puppeteers.

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Gotta love the Puppeteers.
keep in mind, their Cowardice makes them... well....they're not the walking punchlines the Spathi from Star Control are...
the thing is, its believed in-universe to be a distortion of the FIGHT side of the fight-or-flight Instinct- they can Kick backwards with a Hindleg with sufficient force to instantly kill a Kzin...and to get the angle, their ancestors would turn as if to flee...

Spoiler: for the uninitiated

first contact with humanity had them remorselessly exterminating the unarmed crew of a STL exploration/Colony ship down to the last man,woman and child with the flimsiest of justifications about the "risk" involved in any other the Method of study/conflict, dissect the corpses, turn off the power for the cryo chambers, wait, decant the corpses,take genetic samples and start cloning and indoctrinating subjects for study (via telerobotics).

ironically, they've managed to panic-response their way to being screwed as a species/polity the moment their increasingly frantic information-control attempts fails, cause when knowledge of what they're REALLY like/capable of in the name of "reasonable caution" slips out.....

Spoiler: *coughs*

and when mainstream humanity discovers they've been keeping a sizeable human population as pets/essentially slaves for centuries/decades,and humanities OWN paranoiacs start making snap decisions,

well....

 

[AidanMorgan]

*snickers*

I'd file that one under '38,000 years of language drift, technological regression and plain human stupidity' in universe, and ' it sounded cool when I wrote it' for sci-fi authors. Though the meta stable metallic hydrogen angle could work as an excuse, clearly it wasn't in mind when folks came up with most of the images for how those things work. You ever want to make a gun smith foam at the mouth, show them the cutaway on how a storm bolter supposedly works from the old 3rd ed rulebook. To save what little remains of my sanity, I generally have to follow along with the 'it's all real, but it's hardly accurate' for how GW does it's lore. Either that or just blame the Warp for when physics makes no sense.

As for the 40k highjacking of this thread?

*Ahem*

"We've Captured It For CHAOS!"

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It's happened before.

If you really want to make Zoat mad mention the "clap your hands if you believe" interpretation of Ork Teknologee.

 

[Vaermina]

It's happened before.

If you really want to make Zoat mad mention the "clap your hands if you believe" interpretation of Ork Teknologee.

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But... That is how Ork teknologee works...

 

[Pinklestia]

But... That is how Ork teknologee works...

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It basically works like Sparktech.

And the reality warping only works for Orks and even then their stuff tends to...

OH MY GOD TECH ORKS ARE BASICALLY SPARKS!

 

[Gantradies]

It's happened before.

If you really want to make Zoat mad mention the "clap your hands if you believe" interpretation of Ork Teknologee.

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but...isnt that canonically how it works?

there's mention in sorucebooks/novels of the odd ork getting a random chunk of metal to fire bullets because the local Warrrgh's big enough for their belief to force it to...

 

[Mr Zoat]

6th January
09:02 GMT -1

I perform a shallow bow. "I do apologise for my tardiness, Lord Cyprian. Ghia'ta wanted to go over a few things about the trip…"

He shakes his head, smiling as he politely dismisses the issue. "Not at all. We're less… Time-fixated down here than I've learned that some people on the surface can be."

I nod, extending my right hand to Mortalla. "I believe you met my mother at our first summit?"

"Lady Mortalla." A shallow bow, which she nervously mirrors. "A pleasure to meet you again."

"Likewise, my lord."

And he's spotted that she isn't comfortable being the focus of attention and has turned back to me. Yes, someone beat their rivals for the number two job for a reason, didn't they?

"There was no difficulty in securing a meeting?"

"Securing an actual appointment was a little trying. But once the Primate actually met with me she was quite open to the idea. Has Venturia selected its representative?"

He nods, his smile broadening. "Yes. For the first time in my career, I've abused my authority in order to secure the position myself."

"Are you.. sure..? I rather assumed that the initial meeting would be made by a lower ranked official."

"If you met the Primate, that hardly seems fair. The initial meeting at least should be carried out by a highly placed government official, but one who can meaningfully comment on what they are seeing. The only reasonable alternative would be one of our archmages, and the Venturian State College does not have so many skilled researchers that we can afford to send them off on foreign junkets. For a simple three day visit I really am the best choice."

"I'm sure that you know the Queen's mind on the subject. How is… Work progressing on the North African problem?"

"Reasonably well. Constructing our associate's forward operating base created few difficulties; we're well used to managing the transition from air to water here. One or two people on our side expressed disquiet about the people we were working with, but I don't believe that they're a security risk. One or two of his… Crew were clearly unhappy to be working with Atlanteans, but… He handled the disciplinary issues which arose in a satisfactory manner. I'm not sure that we're ready for… Combined operations yet."

"And Adom?"

"An… Interesting man. Far more public-spirited than I imagined that someone from that era would be. We've been providing him with intelligence while he makes his own attacks. The… Mercenaries tend not to employ heavy ordnance, and I believe that they are appreciating having a man of his strength watching their back."

I nod. "And Manta himself?"

"I'm sure that he's curious. So far he hasn't made any overt efforts to breach our operational security, but he's an intelligent man. At some point he's going to work out that he isn't working with a dissident group, and he's going to want answers."

I nod. "Not unreasonable. I don't like keeping my operatives in the dark, but I think I'm going to want that employer-employee relationship to bed in a little before I change things."

"Probably wise. He has been an independent operator for a very long time. I doubt that he'd bite the hand that feeds him for a momentary advantage…"

"I'm honestly more worried about spooking him. I'm not exactly known for my easy-going attitude to supervillains."

"Hm. Well, in the Atlantean context, there is a historical precedent for that sort of thing. I would have to check to see whether it was still legal in Poseidonis, but…"

"Yes?"

"As you know, it is the Venturian position that Atlantis is a collection of city-states. During more… Fractious times, cities or alliances of cities occasionally made war upon each other. For the ruler of Poseidonis, acting as ringmaster occasionally… Put them in a position where it was politically expedient to pardon various parties who had been affiliated with losing sides and had turned to banditry. They would foreswear such methods, accept a geas enforcing that oath, and then serve the High King or Queen for whatever task they had in mind."

"Has such a pardon been issued in recent times?"

"Not to my knowledge. Which is why I would have to have someone check. And of course, such a thing would be purely within High King Orin's gift. I doubt that he would pardon a group who worked with his treacherous brother for Venturia's benefit. And… Frankly, if we had that sort of political capital we would have better things to spend it on."

I nod. "Thank you. I appreciate you bringing this option to my attention. Is there.. anything else we need to discuss?"

"Ah… The trade delegation has been a success so far. Your man Luthor has been quite forthcoming, and I'm given to understand that he's having little difficulty in selling the low grade arcane artefacts we've been shipping."

"There's a certain excitement for unique products. I would caution you not to assume that it will last, however."

He shakes his head. "I never assumed that it would. But by that stage we should have a better idea of what they can actually use." He smiles slightly cruelly. "I.. have.. so enjoyed being able to set the import and export conditions for our fellow cities."

"You may wish to be a little careful, there. Push them too far-."

"I do realise that -coming out of isolation as we are- it would be unwise to alienate the other cities… But it is nice to have the high ground."

"I was more concerned that they might finally decide to take the initiative themselves and come to a similar arrangement."

He raises his eyebrows, staring at me in disbelief. Then he chuckles. "I think, Lord Grayven, that you vastly overestimate the initiative of the other city states. Aside from Poseidonis, where High King Orin forces the matter himself, we're mostly having direct dealings with merchant companies on the export side of things. No, I'm not worried on that score."

"I'm glad that you're taking full advantage of the opportunity. Is there anything further I can do?"

"Do you know whether Senator Knight would maintain President Horne's policies towards us should he win this year's election?"

"I haven't.. asked. But I suspect that if anything he'd be more enthusiastic. He has a record of agitating for greater defence spending, and… America spends little to nothing on arcane defence. Jon would wait until the Joint Chiefs forwarded a proposal. Though if you want me to set up a meeting with General Lane..?"

"Not immediately, but…" He nods. "Yes."

"Consider it done."

"Thank you. Now, please, this way."

He leads the way out of his private meeting room, down a hall and into a richly decorated living area. A well-dressed Pureblood Atlantean couple are quietly conversing on a sofa while a young Pureblood girl plays with a small pool of water, her magic pulling it this way and that, parts alternately freezing and evaporating. The adults rise when they see us approach, and the girl returns her water to its basin before taking position just before the adults.

Lord Cyprian steps aside, indicating them with his right hand. "May I present my son, Vespasian, his wife, Flavia, and their daughter Aelia."

I bow, slightly deeper than is strictly required. But it brings my head down to the level of Aelia, and I take the opportunity to give her a friendly smile before straightening up.

"Pleased to meet you all. This is Mortalla. She'll be directly responsible for seeing to Aelia's welfare."

Flavia nods. "Your majordomo?"

"My mother. Naturally, I believe that she's very good at raising children. Being Apokoliptian, she also makes a reasonable bodyguard, though naturally I have specialists for that as well."

Mortalla walks past me and kneels down next to Aelia. "Why don't you show me what you were doing with that water?"

Aelia looks upwards, and after getting a nod from her parents leads Mortalla away to look at it.

I bring my hands together. "So let's go over the details."

 

[Mr Zoat]

but...isnt that canonically how it works?

there's mention in sorucebooks/novels of the odd ork getting a random chunk of metal to fire bullets because the local Warrrgh's big enough for their belief to force it to...

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Ork technology works because Oddboyz have knowledge programmed into their genetics, and I will snik the grot who claims otherwise.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Time-fixated down here than I've learn that some people on the surface can be."

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Time-fixated down here than I've learned that some people on the surface can be."

I'm not exactly known for me easy-going attitude to supervillains."

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I'm not exactly known for my easy-going attitude to supervillains."

I bow, slightly deeper than is strictly required. But it brings my head down to the level of Aelia, and I take the opportunity to give her a friendly smile before straightening up.

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Grayven: Putting small children at ease like a boss.