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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Mr Zoat said:
"Recognized, Orange Lantern, B zero six."

I walk out of the glaring light of the zeta tube with my fingers crossed. It's not that I think that she'll actually attack anyone, it's just… I don't think that further shocks to the system will help my case.
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At worst, she might have some kind of psychotic breakdown. Which would probably end up with her getting Righteously Face-punched after she tries to take over the world...

So, what do we know? Overman, the most powerful and highly respected superhero on Earth 10, thinks that the holocaust was a really bad idea. He's playing his horror down, but the person closest to him spotted it. And since she really didn't-. Doesn't want to believe it, I don't think that she's merely mistaken. So okay, he was a teenager when the Second World War ended, and Angelika said that he didn't commit mass 'purging' himself. I wouldn't expect most teenagers to question the society they grew up in at that age, and…
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Keep in mind, Kryptonian intelligence. Just because he doesn't show it often, doesn't mean Kal-El is stupid, whichever the universe.

And I'm not sure that I can criticism him too harshly for not trying to topple the fascist status quo when I left the Crime Syndicate as a going concern. Okay, he's had sixty years and I had a couple of days, so… No, no, the Syndicate doesn't have a broad support base. By now fascism is just normal. The surviving groups who aren't considered 'acceptable' aren't going to have the economic or military power to form a separate support base. And at this point the more stupid parts of Naz-. Yes, Nazi political organisation must have reached some kind of resolution, otherwise the system just wouldn't be able to function.
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In short, it's impossible to remove or overthrow the ruling force.

Overman openly said that he thought the purges were a mistake and they don't appear to have tried to purge him. Yes, kryptonians are tough but they're not invulnerable. If the current regime were that sensitive to criticism then they could probably have gotten rid of him. Ultimately, I just don't know enough-.
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I'm guessing it would take particularly dirty nuclear weapons, ala Dark Knight Returns.

"Recognized, Overgirl, A six one."

I don't know what he's planning. And I don't know if I could come up with something better.
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And ultimately, is there any point to try? It's not your universe. It's not even the one you live in. At best, you hope Overman can change thigns from within, and let him handle it.

Angelika looks around curiously. Her eyes alight on the bio-ship for a moment, but she appears familiar with the general design.

"Is that Martian?"

"Yes, it belongs to my colleague, M'gann M'orzz. What's Mars like in your parallel?"
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Not in the best of shape, really.

"It was dead. There's a Germanian colony there now, but the only member of the native species left is A'monn A'mokk."

"What happened to them?"

"I don't know him well. Some sort of weaponised disease. It killed the entire population over the course of a few days." She shrugs. "It does nothing to humans, so there was no reason not to colonise it."
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I wonder what part the Scientific community of her nation had to do with it... Or perhaps it was Ma'alefa'ak or Karmang's doing.

Hm. Don't remember an A'monn A'mokk from the comics.

"Good news, then! Martian civilisation is alive and well here. The Justice League has a Martian member, as does my team. That's a Martian spaceship."
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I wonder what she thinks of that? After all, she's only met one White Martian. Would she approve of the Reds ruling or find the Green's existence as distasteful as she does other 'lesser' races?

She nods, and continues looking around.

"I can't see through the rock."

"Yes, it's a security measure. I reinforced it with super tough materials and arcane wards, and there's an enchanted grove inhabited by a dryad on top of it." I frown. "What does National Socialism say about dryads?"
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Ooh, what does it think of non-humans? Atlanteans, we know they love them, being the 'original Aryan people' and so forth... But 'monster' races?

She shrugs. "Since they aren't human, our standards of racial purity don't apply. The National Church dislikes them, while the Ariosophists.. generally revere them. I have never dealt with one myself. Do you intend to introduce us?"

"I think Euanthe's probably a bit tactile for you."
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Yeah, she is a bit touchy-feely.

"Tactile?"

"She doesn't really have a concept of personal space. Oh, um… Should I introduce you as Overgirl, or Angelika? Actually, is it alright if I call you Angelika? Overgirl sounds a little.. odd in-." I wince. "Do you speak English?"
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Übermädchen, yes? The implications are a bit, well...

"Yes, and Spanish and French. Though I am told that I have a strong accent."

"I hadn't noticed."

"Of course not, we are both speaking German."
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You're speaking German. Unlike your world, German is not the common tongue.

"No, I'm speaking English." I hold up my left hand. "My power ring includes a translation function."

"It does?"

"I got a 'C' at GCSE German, which means that I can't speak German. I didn't even get that far with any other language."
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Don't feel bad, many people only speak one language. I can understand a few terms and phrases in spoken Japanese, but that's about it.

"Sentinel's ring does not translate. Is that because his ring is green?"

"Did he get it from an American superhero called Green Lantern?" She nods. "It's defective. Damaged during a remote shutdown when its previous owner stopped obeying the people who made it. It doesn't have a lot of the functions the rings in good working order have."
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Nice touch, giving their GL-counterpart Alan's alternate Comics speudonym.

"How would he repair it?"

"Ta.. king our parallel as an example, find someone who understands the technology and ask them to do it. The Guardians of the Galaxy might do it, but… How National Socialist is Sentinel?"

"They would refuse to aid a hero due to his political beliefs?"
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"They already have a long history of doing so..."

"If those political beliefs include the idea that mass murder of people who haven't committed a crime due to genetic characteristics is okay then yes, they probably would. If the Green Lantern Corps in your reality works like it does here then there are two Lanterns in your region of space already. If they haven't approached him -even just to find out how he got his ring- then it's probably because they don't want to."
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Or they've been ordered not to. Unsurprisingly, the whole 'Nazi's rule the world' would count solely as a internal political matter. Remember their stance concerning the League of Shadows?

"Their own species has never cleansed itself? They do not have their own defectives?"

"Yes, and I work for them. When Maltusian political factions can't agree with one another they just avoid one another, they don't kill each other. The last time there was Maltusian on Maltusian violence was when one of them came close to accidentally destroying the universe, and there wasn't any internal disagreement about how to handle that."
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'Defectives' is a bit of a strong term for it, though. I doubt Hinon would like to be called that...

"Other species, then. How do they handle-?"

"Some species do sterilise people with genetic disorders… Those are actual disorders which make parts of their body not function properly, not for membership of a particular social group. More advanced places just fix them or use assisted reproduction techniques to ensure that the damaged genes aren't passed on. Political purges happen in a lot of places, but… Remember all of the centuries German Catholics spent killing German Protestants, and vice versa? Same thing, and about as sensible. Trying to kill a popular idea by killing people usually doesn't completely work, and trying to kill an unpopular one is pointless. Other places have caste systems, but even then… Flat out extermination of the sort Germania went in for is very unusual."
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Why waste the resources, some would say. Like Apokolips!

I call up a holographic screen and connect it to my rings by a construct.

"Feel free to review our database if you wish to confirm that for yourself."

"Yes." She walks over to it and begins entering her search parameters. "I think that I will."
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Oh, I hope you set some restrictions on access. Ideally, nothing she can't find on... 'Encarta Populi', wasn't it?

Ah, first chapter of the new year and fast approaching the first anniversary of the Fic's arrival on QQ, too. Time does fly.
As for the content, I see OL is still trying to give Overgirl the information she should know, to shake up her beliefs. Best case scenario, when Overman and the Statemen manage to find their way here, perhaps they'll develop a plan to change their world...
 
New year? What're you guys talking about? We are in the middle of March, as far as I know.
 
Lord Ernest said:
New year? What're you guys talking about? We are in the middle of March, as far as I know.
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ef8.jpg
 
Mr Zoat said:
"If those political beliefs include the idea that mass murder of people who haven't committed a crime due to genetic characteristics is okay then yes, they probably would. If the Green Lantern Corps in your reality works like it does here then there are two Lanterns in your region of space already. If they haven't approached him -even just to find out how he got his ring- then it's probably because they don't want to."

"Their own species has never cleansed itself? They do not have their own defectives?"

"Yes, and I work for them. When Maltusian political factions can't agree with one another they just avoid one another, they don't kill each other. The last time there was Maltusian on Maltusian violence was when one of them came close to accidentally destroying the universe, and there wasn't any internal disagreement about how to handle that."

"Other species, then. How do they handle-?"

"Some species do sterilise people with genetic disorders… Those are actual disorders which make parts of their body not function properly, not for membership of a particular social group. More advanced places just fix them or use assisted reproduction techniques to ensure that the damaged genes aren't passed on. Political purges happen in a lot of places, but… Remember all of the centuries German Catholics spent killing German Protestants, and vice versa? Same thing, and about as sensible. Trying to kill a popular idea by killing people usually doesn't completely work, and trying to kill an unpopular one is pointless. Other places have caste systems, but even then… Flat out extermination of the sort Germania went in for is very unusual."
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The Problem with trying to use this argument against nazis is that they believe that being some other racial type is a genetic disorder.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
At worst, she might have some kind of psychotic breakdown. Which would probably end up with her getting Righteously Face-punched after she tries to take over the world...
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Nit pick, but a psychotic breakdown is quite unlikely. Psychosis specifically refers to a lack of contact with external reality and an inability to keep track of events as they happen. Her trying to take over the world wouldn't be an example of psychosis, as she would be interacting with the external reality quite extensively in the process of doing so (and external reality would interact with her, particularly wrt to Righteous Face Punching).

For a psychotic break, she'd need to start insisting that she's really back on Earth 10, and that this is all a mental illusion cast by one of her enemies to make her doubt National Socialism. Which would certainly be an unusual direction for Zoat to take this.
 
The Citadelians and Psions were literary born evil and raised evil.
The first were artificially created to be merciless, brutish warriors without compassion, empathy or decency while the second were created to be vivisection happy mad scientists.
They didn't have any civilians. The Citadel used slaves from other species while the Psions were probably a post scarcity society given their advanced tech and maybe used machines for their labor while keeping slaves for experimentation.

There is a diffrence between the shit the nazis pulled against innocent people for the barely pseudo scientific bullshit they considered to be how genetics work as well as how a culture shapes a person and what the SI and his allies did to some of the few races that you could consider going full ax crazy maniac on and not feel regret because they are incredibly predisposed to do horrible things because of their genetics and their culture.

Also the SI was only willing to exterminate the gordanians that continued their barbaric and pirating ways, which was basically most of the gordanians in Vega such as that Tearing Bite asshat, he probably considers them to be just criminals, and wouldn't go after those who took up professions such as mercenery work, provided they don't work for some shitty people, or trading like Meat Barter clan did.
 
Darko said:
The Citadelians and Psions were literary born evil and raised evil.
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My point isn't right or wrong, my point is that OL is committing massive deception by omission when he claims that genocides are very rare, even among aliens, when he himself carried out one about a year ago, and was involved in another through command responsibility, specifically by failing to punish, just a few months ago.

TLDR: It ain't the killin. It's the lyin.


Also I am not sure that genocides are as rare as described even in canon DC. Assume that every time an inhabited planet is destroyed by something other than a natural disaster, and isn't a part of a multi-planet polity, its at least an attempted genocide. I think it happened now and then in most DC interstellar-scope storylines like LSH or LEGION. So at best it is uncommon. Not even rare.
 
The genocide against the Psions and Citadelians could have been the couple of new genocides that may have happened in a long time in space.
There probably haven't been any in a long time before OL and Vega did those two.
 
To be fair the Green Lanterns do work as a genocide prevention police force, yes there are races that are geared to genocide ALIENS, but the ones geared to genocide themselves ARE pretty rare, that is what Paul was talking about. Even the Citadelians had a breakdown when they were mind controlled to kill other members of their race.
 
It'll be hard. They weren't even adults who got to experience pre-Nazi Germany, or children who had to be put through de-Nazification after a Nazi defeat.

Overman and Overgirl were both raised from infancy in the Nazi system. Which means they spent the entirety of their childhoods being indoctrinated. Because the Nazis put a lot of effort into aggressively indoctrinating children through things like the mandatory youth programs for boys and girls.

In a world where they won, and you were born in the GGR, you don't get to just be someone who happened to grow up under the Nazis. They were invested in making sure that the children would grow up to be faithful Nazis in a way that a lot of nasty regimes simply weren't.

On top of that, they used that reverse-engineered Kryptonian technology to basically cheat their way to a utopia. When life is so good for the average person as to be considered utopic you have even less reason to question the system.

While no indoctrination method is 100% effective, ignoring whatever comic book bullshit DC might have, I think that even a reformed Overgirl would still identify as a National Socialist. Just minus the overt racism. (Which is where I think Overman might be.)

Which is . . . Uhhh . . . They were the first government to put forward smoking bans. Or to pass comprehensive laws for animal welfare and rights. And their welfare programs for children and their mothers were pretty good.

And that's all I can think of without spending a bunch of time trying to figure out what Nazism minus the racism would actually look like.
 
Maybe but at least there is actual proof,and not pseudo scientific bullshit like the nazis used, that they were genetically and culturally created and raised to be monsters.

And yeah ForeverShogo does have a point that Angelika and Karl would most likely still identify as National Socialists, just without the racism and if they reform their government it would be National Socialism without the prejudice.
Even if the two of them do become better people i am pretty sure that they will just drop the racism and racial/ethnic superiority thing while still being National Socialists, maybe try to give more rights to people of non aryan backgrounds and trying to form bonds and cultural exchanges between these ethnic groups and themselves.
 
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.. honestly,the best point OL could probably make is, even leaving bigotry aside, the fact that, without lucking into kryptonian technology (and a living kryptonian),the Nazi Regime was destined to, across multiple, sometimes wildly divergent timelines,utterly ruin Germany- if they hadn't won the cosmic jackpot, the end result of all their scheming would have been Germany being torn in half, and occupied for 60 years-

and that the majority of their achievements would...well- just have been waste, stupidity, and needless suffering-
a bunch of impractical, unreliable AFVs and tanks,Tanks, a good chunk of biased, scientifically worthless data-
the data from Meangle's "research", both the vivisection's and the hypothermia studies, were completely unsalvageable- for example, the experiments "allegedly" helping to design better survival gear for pilots/sailors was using NAKED,severely undernourished people forced into ice-baths till they died
- hardly relivent to the longevity of a fully-clothed, well-fed aviator, id say-
i did some research on the subject a few years back, after seeing a question on Quora asking if any of their data was even valid to start with (from the viewpoint of "was..anything salvageable enough that SOME good came out of it, post-war?")
if you think the ...things THEY did were...unpleasant enough to make you queasy, dont... look up unit 731. there's a ... lot of blood on the Japanese Government's hands, thats -never- been washed away due to their policy of passive denial and historical redaction- and the USA's for pardoning the....animals responsible-couldn't resist the tasty, tasty biological warfare test data. no, really- if you get ill/nightmares easily, dont look it up- the....staff were..... well. at least two of them became serial killers post-war...)

- a wash on prettymuch every angle, even leaving the atrocities aside- everything and anything "good" from her timeline came from Overman and his ship...
 
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I think there are other universes where the Nazis won without lucking into Kryptonian technology.

There was an Earth X where the Nazis developed nukes and were able to persist because of the fear of MAD. They then decisively ended the conflict in their favor by developing mind control technology that let them remove the world's will to fight them. Didn't work on everyone, but it worked on enough that they were able to take over the Earth.

And I guess Earth 10 and Earth-10 are technically two separate universes where Kal-El landed in the Sudetenland and was raised by the Nazis. (There are enough differences between them that they literally can't be the same universe.)

I wonder how many more Nazi victory universes there are that we just haven't seen?

===

Also, the "funny" thing is that the Nazis never wanted anyone to know the genocides actually happened. The death camps were all going to be dismantled and forests were going to be planted over them. Himmler told the SS that staffed the camps that they were "the heroes of the greatest story that can never be told".

But they also never wanted to conquer the entire planet. I imagine it's a lot harder to hide that shit when people ask, "Where did the population of Africa go?" (Among other places.)

Oh, and they weren't going to use the camps for most of the killing. They planned to use artificial famines to kill most of the undesirables. Just flat out refuse to feed them. "Every piece of bread that goes to them is a piece of bread that could instead be feeding a German."
 
This entire discussion is reminding me of Harry Turtledove's World War series. Has anyone read any of that? It is an alternate history where colony ships from an alien civilization that call themselves The Race start invading earth during world war two. Germany survives, but has to deal with the consequences of its treatment of other races.
 
Actually the Citadelian/Gordanian argument doesn't really work, he was talking about Internal Purges within a species to get rid of undesirables. What happened to the Citadelians and Gordanians were an External thing, very different. It's a bit like if he was saying that Civil War was uncommon and people started pointing out Non-Civil Wars to show that civil wars happen all the time. :D
 
Will the paragon meet Mordru?

Whats the story with the Hat in the mandated timeline?
Was he a magician with a demonic hat that became a Lord of Chaos and was then employed by the Chinese?
Or was he someone that already worked for the chinese and then was ordered to become a Lord of Chaos because they wanted the power?

Will you show Manitou and Dawn Raven in the paragon storyline, aside from that mention when he was thinking about Adoms friends?
Whats the story with Adoms former teammate Gamemnae in your story?
Did she try to raise Atlantis to the surface using unethical means, like living sacrifices, or did she experiment with the grafts the atlanteans have like she did in the comics?
 
It's also possible that most of the internal genocides have long since happened. A lot of the other civilizations in the DC universe are spacefaring planets of hats.

Everyone looks the same. Comes from the same culture. Etc. Etc.

That can have a lot of, shall we say, interesting implications. Earth might be interesting in that it didn't genocide its way to a global ethno-state.
 
They could have also not had that much of a diffrence in their cultures compared to earth that it was easier for them to unite into one culture.
 
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