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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. The Chosen One

    The Chosen One Getting out there.

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    I feel like a lot of people are getting hung up on the word "internal" when the important distinction is that, irrespective of how civil the potential war may or may not be, this is still not a matter for the criminal justice system the Team was sent to uphold, but a diplomatic/military conflict involving groups with claims to statehood which, tenuous though those claims may be, are beyond Paul's authority to evaluate.

    More in-universe comparisons include Paul's support of Adom's regime change, which involved super powered combatants, and casualties on a large scale, but which the Justice League stayed out of entirely because, again, it is not an intraterrestrial military force by definition; as well as the Renegade-side international conflicts Grayven sent the girls to practice on, since no one else in their weight class was much invested in a particular result, and they could act unilaterally and with impunity.
     
  2. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Yes but again that's no different than a terrorist group operating in cells

    They are clearly collaborating, have the same goal and I don't believe for a second that if a tribe in Colombia were running into problems then they wouldn't get help from tribes in Brazil
     
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  3. Chaoswind

    Chaoswind Lord of nonsense

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    I can see Brazil "stalling" in order to buy the necessary weapons needed to fight the tribes. Power armored soldiers armed with biological weapons sounds cheap enough (Sarin, Nerve Gas, in large quantities) and they have the resources, the contacts AND the example of how the PREVIOUS attempt of the tribes failed.


    Lets remember there are several factions that can sell Brazil weapons, not only from other countries, but also from "private" interests. The tribes have no contacts, no money, no industry, no advantage, all they have is the Danner formula and the value of the formula is fairly limited as just genociding most of the tribes gets you the only thing of actual value they have, so backing Brazil/South America and getting the continent in your debt has orders of magnitude more value than anything the tribes could offer.


    In short, the tribes are fucked because there are several things against them, first are the economic interest, second are the political precedents this would set (fuck no) and third, their brand of super strength is at the end of the day a fairly pedestrian threat that can be completely destroyed after a few months of preparation, Brazil doesn't need to negotiate in good faith, all they have to do is stall.

    Edit

    At the end of the day, these tribes going after all the countries in south America is pretty much on par with an alien attack that comes out of nowhere, no country is going to support them because they really don't have anything of value to offer and the economic disruption in South America would harm everyone else, yeah the usual suspects will oppose their governments if they attempt to help South America, but everyone that matters will sell them weapons even in exchange of an IOU.

    The US would be HARD pressed to not help them because the alternative are these south American countries buying Russian and Chinese weapons and falling into THEIR sphere of influence out of gratitude. So at the short term there are plasma beams and chemical weapons on the table right off the bat, a few more days would secure them a deal for power armor production, and so on.

    The threat of the tribes is a fairly short lived one that they would only be capable to capitalize on their advantage for a few months maybe a little over a year, after that their threat isn't much as they would be out produced.

    Yes, their nature as nomad tribes gives them certain advantages if they decide to hide and only attack targets of opportunity through terrorism, but at that point they aren't an existential threat, they are just an annoyance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  4. Siiracai The Supernal

    Siiracai The Supernal Shadows and Balance

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    Does anyone know of any other good Lantern SIs? It's just that I have exhausted the majority of the ones on the SB SI thread, and everything I can find on QQ and SV, and I seem to have become a bit too obsessed with these lately.
     
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  5. Gantradies

    Gantradies Not too sore, are you?

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    ..... as long as there's a stipulation about sharing their traditional farming/land-preparing techniques, or at least a strong encouragement to do so, thats a..pretty simple, neat solution that could probably be negotiated into a genuine "everyone's happy" outcome, IF everyone's willing to sit down ,talk LISTEN and negotiate in good faith-
    and keep their word regarding access/materials extraction.
    i mean, with all the expense/labor/constant relocation of the entire property/plots inherent in the S&B method (if absolutely nothing else, the distance materials/workers have to move gets longer and longer with every relocation), even if the setup time's slower for the traditional/sustainable technique, there's enough farmers who'd genuinely consider it that it'd be a good negotiating point even if ONLY for economic/logistical reasons...

    working on/going into employing (assuming they still have the knowledge) the agricultural methods that were originally used in the amazon, on a large scale could pretty easily give the groups/tribes a decent amount of economic power by producing foodstuffs/natural commodities (you KNOW there's things people will pay out the nose for based on their origin/farming techniques, even putting rarity aside)at a steady pace- even without a lot of heavy equipment, a single person can do a LOT of physical labor with danner's strength/endurance boosts....

    the legitimate fears about starvation/loss of infrastructure could be negated, a potential threat/cause of a severe political upheaval turned into productive parts of the world economy (if negotiation about the level of industrialization/urbanization rollback demanded was successful-the Dolmen Gate system could easily reduce the demand/need for long-distance highways/train lines, and some of the power systems using that new partially-arcane alloy could help with the damage/space consumed by generation/transmission infrastructure as well..), the local/national governments in the region under threat would, politically, make out like fucking BANDITS by dealing with a legitimate territory/land dispute with a native populace in an ethical manner, as opposed to the majority of similar incidents in the planet's recorded history- it'd give them a level of moral legitimacy/superiority that... essentially nobody on the planet has today....

    if everyone's willing to be reasonable, OL has a number of the solutions an equitable peace would need available right now...
    and his support network has even more....
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  6. Prince Charon

    Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know?

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    Sadly, the sort of people who have historically (quite often in the twentieth century, for example) made that kind of demand have very rarely been willing to acknowledge that kind of response as valid, especially if given by someone who doesn't look enough like them, and has what they consider a foreign accent, or a native language other than their own.

    It occurs to me that while what you're describing is consistent with reality, it may not be consistent with what Zoat described in-story (not really sure), and thus may not be what the Accala are going for.
     
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  7. DbDRAKE

    DbDRAKE Possibly some sort of Actual Dragon?

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    Fair enough.

    My view is that each individual tribe was a nation unto it self in the past; maintain their own customs, laws, and in some cases languages, and have enough history on the ground that you gotta listen to em.

    Of course, it isn't important at the end of the day, it won't matter one way or another in the story.
     
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  8. ForeverShogo

    ForeverShogo Not too sore, are you?

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    Oh joy. Everyone gets to be a subsistence farmer again. Joy of joys.
     
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  9. Queshire

    Queshire Not too sore, are you?

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    If they win then Lex should invest in the suddenly lucrative underground city building market.
     
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  10. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
    Or a mutual defence pact between nations. Is NATO a terrorist organisation?
     
  11. Threadmarks: Jungle Gym (part 18)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    18th March
    16:22 GMT -3


    "…about the size of it, sirs."

    "Danner." Alan looks solemn and… Old. Not literally old, but.. there's a quality of… Visually apparent depth of experience I've seen on supernaturally old young-looking people a few times, and he's doing it now. "There's someone I never thought I'd run into again."

    Diana doesn't look exactly excited at the prospect either, but she isn't looking quite so dour about it.

    "Do you require our aid?"

    Behind the screen, Beryl makes exaggerated nodding gestures. Raquel hesitates, then pulls a face and nods too.

    "I don't know. Wonder Woman, you're probably a better diplomat than me, but you were here during the Accalas' first attack and I doubt that they'll be glad to see you. You could try moderating the response of the Brazilian government while I handle the Accala…"

    "I'll be there in half an hour."

    "Thank you."

    Her screen blanks out, while Alan shrugs.

    "I can come along as well, but you're right: they won't be pleased to see me, and I… Gave a Brazilian ambassador a piece of my mind a couple of years after it happened."

    "I doubt that anyone here remembers it."

    "You're probably right. You don't think we can make a fight of it?"

    "They don’t appear to use magic to a significant degree. If it really came to it I could probably make them not want to attack, but that's the sort of.. wide area mind control sort of thing I don't really want to do."

    "You'd rather just let them fight it out?"

    "You'd rather I mind control everyone who disagrees with me?"

    "No, but you could just… Calm them down a little."

    "I can't calm them down at all. I'd be removing their desire to fight, or giving them an obsession with diplomatic solutions. It wouldn't solve anything unless I left it on. This isn't some temporary desire that might fade if they thought about what they're doing for a little while; this has been the focus of their culture since the fifties. There's more room for negotiation in how the Accala deal with the areas that they take."

    "They really want to tear everything up?"

    "I don't think they've thought it through in that level of detail. At the moment it's just 'government equals enemy'."

    "So what's your next step?"

    "Once the government give me their counteroffer… I think we should probably try and complete the original mission. We still don’t know who it was that attacked the logging camp, and that actually is a crime if the Elders didn't sign off on it."

    Alan manages a small smile. "But they might still argue over jurisdiction."

    Hm… Possibly. And if it is a member of the tribe then I don't think that handing them over to the Brazilian police would be sensible. But at least I can tell them who it was. If they can't exercise authority over the territory they claim then that isn't precisely my problem either.

    Though since we're on the subject of Danner enhanciles…

    "Donner said that Professor Danner was handing his formula out to people he met at research conferences. I'd always suspected, but… Ubermensch, do you think he was a Danner enhancile?"

    "The Axis Amerika fellow? He.. might have been. His folks sure moved in the right circles."

    "What happened to him? League records just say that he was held on treason charges."

    "I.. don't know. I always assumed they found a way to kill him. Danner people still need air, don't they?" I nod. "But I can't say I checked. You think he's alive and in Brazil?"

    "It's more likely that it was one of the Accala jumping the gun, but I want to bear all reasonably probable alternatives in mind. I'll let you know how it goes."

    "Okay." Alan nods. "Good luck."

    I hang up and look at my colleagues. Beatriz is busy trying to contact the entirety of Brazil's superhero population and they're not exactly well organised. I suspect that she'll also be contacting the metahuman security companies, though if she doesn't they'll almost certainly hear about it from their employees. There are probably enough metahumans in Brazil to outnumber the Accala, but… Not all metahumans are created equal. I researched most of them when I was looking for potential League recruits. Most of their abilities are relatively minor, and they're employed more for status than utility. Even the ones who are a bit more useful are mostly far less dangerous than Danner enhanciles. Post-upgrade, Beatriz is.. certainly top tier, if not the most dangerous overall.

    "So-?"

    Beryl looks mildly pensive. "Regional autonomy, with a guaranteed moratorium on further deforestation."

    "How much autonomy?"

    Beryl shrugs. "They’ll control everything except foreign policy. Which they don't care about."

    "Do you think that the government even can prevent deforestation?"

    "They can prevent it happening legally, and let the Accala carry out enforcement. Which spreads the Accala right out and makes it hard for them to do anything else."

    That will probably result in a lot of dead manual labourers. I gesture to her arm computer with her right hand.

    "Have you guesstimated the borders they'll suggest as well?"

    She activates the hologram screen.

    "Something like this. They won't want to give up major towns or roads, but they know that they're going to have to offer something outside the edge of the jungle."

    "Do you think that the Accala will accept it?"

    "No. But it will probably stop them attacking. Today."

    "I suppose that's the most we can hope for. So, Rocket: natives fighting back against colonial oppression, or mindless thuggery by backwards primitives?"

    "Fuck you."

    "You'll have to clear that with my girlf-."

    "It's not either. Yeah, the government pretty much just ignores the natives 'cause it can, but they don't need to wreck everything to stop it. An' even if a lot of the people living in the area they want are mostly descended from natives rather than the.. Portuguese or whoever, they've been living out of the jungle so long they probably don't know how to or want to know how to." She pulls a face. "And no."

    Beryl snerks.

    "You're right, it wouldn't work, the piercings are a-."

    Incoming message.

    "Excuse me." I raise my left hand to my ear. "Yes?"

    "Yes, I want to meet him."

    "Pick you up in about an hour."
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  12. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    Good to see he's passing the buck a bit. These two would definitely want to know about what's happening.

    And the squad are all in favour of senior assistance. Too bad they aren't in charge...

    Zeta travel then flight to the capitol building. She's not fooling around here.

    The Elders know him as an enemy, he would certainly not be welcome at all...

    To be honest, the fight wouldn't even be a challenge. Ascend a kilometer, drop gas-mask construct pumping knockout gas and hold on tight.

    No, but the alternative sets all kinds of bad precedents...

    Anything not permanent would get flushed as soon as they stop to think. Anything permanent... See my prior mention of bad precedents.

    That's still a lot of targets. And heavens help anyone who tries to get in their way.

    Still hoping for a peaceful resolution, eh? Don't hold your breath... Not that that's hard for you...

    It's a big old knot of Gordian proportions. But the last thing we want is some Alexander coming along cutting it.

    Odd time to be following up on that sort of thing. Still, at least he's bothering to.

    Oh, dear. That is a bad thought. If he turns up, I'd say point Danner and the tribes at him...

    "Thanks, we'll need it..."

    Not everyone can be A-grade. I'm picturing lamer powers like something out of Mystery Men...

    Huh, pretty close to my guess. But will the farmers agree to that?

    Short-sighted of them...

    Oh, that could get messy...

    'And how likely are the tribes to accept them?' going unspoken.

    Ah, not unspoken, merely delayed.

    Yeah, OL, that's kind of a dick move.

    In other words, this isn't going to work out well for everyone.

    Dude, what is your problem, antagonising a teammate like that? Just because she has opinions?

    Ah, the message he sent off finally got read? I'm guessing he's going to use the press to present the tribes' side to the public?

    Well, this whole thing is not going away anytime soon. I suspect there's going to be a lot of frayed tempers and unhappy feelings amongst all involved...

    Correction:
    ...something outside the edge of the jungle."
     
  13. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
  14. DAT_NOOB

    DAT_NOOB Accused of writing in a far away land

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    Depends on who you ask really.

    Either way, I'm interested to see how this all plays out I doubt south America's lastest supervillain team will get all the land they demanded but halting deforestation is definitely a more reasonable solution. I'm pretty sure the tribesmen already have regional autonomy so I suppose they just have to recognise that.
     
  15. Gantradies

    Gantradies Not too sore, are you?

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    ...you know,when you think about it,the thing about the Mystery men is....
    their powers actually WEREN'T that bad- they were just tricky to apply, or being used in the wrong way-
    Shoveler (if nothing else, he had genuine heroic spirit- give him some training and gear...)/the bowler aside..
    the spleen- well, as toilet-humory as his ability is, its tailor made for either group/crowd dispersion, or disoriententing/incapacitating opponents non lethally-
    the Blue Raja, if he dropped the fork thing, with that force and accuracy? he'd... be quite scary, as non-flying brick-type opponents/combatants go- he's basically "young bullseye",admittedly minus the CIP, and without his sadism/psychopathy making him stop to gloat/hurt instead of going for the vitals/tendons instantly all the time.

    when he stopped trying to force his rage-induced superstrength,and actually got genuinely, righteously ANGRY about something, Mister Furious was actually...surprisingly impressive on several levels for a B-c level super-vigilante early in his career -
    genuinely decent enhanced strength-especially considering his opponent was pretty damn decent in a fight- and he didn't showboat.....AND actually had a decent, basic knowledge of barroom/backstreet-style hand to hand combat- he just went for simple, reliable hits/blows that essentially ALL are great at hurting/dazing a human opponent- with more than human force/endurance behind them...
    and the ability to be "invisible when no-on is watching (but it totally works on -any- form of electronic surveillance) ", well- thats the potential for the words greatest cat-burgler/art thief/infiltration agent...
     
  16. Bomaz

    Bomaz Making the rounds.

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    Can someone remind me. What upgrade of Beatriz is Paul thinking about?
     
  17. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    Bewbs.
     
  18. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

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    I think he got her trained with Supergirl.
     
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  19. Lucidum

    Lucidum Verifiably Bored

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    I really have to appreciate this whole scenario that Mr.Zoat has written up.

    You could probably sway the argument either side if you tried hard enough, but I personally think that those who want to exert their power without wanting nor knowing the reasoning behind their enemies and actively planned on destroying the homes of millions along with the infrastructure is at best to me a child throwing a tantrum.

    A few hundred people are deciding the fate of the South American continent or at least a good chunk of it and aren't doing the research to see how they're going to impact the citizens just doesn't sit fundamentally right with me, though I suppose it's also because I'm a bit a technophile so I could be a bit biased in that sense.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  20. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Versed in the lewd.

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    I really like Rocket here.

    It feels like she is confronting her own preconceived notions in this arc, from her instinctive disgust of Ubergirl to the narrative of the poor oppressed fighting th evil state and she is doing so calmly and rationally.
     
  21. Enochi

    Enochi Not too sore, are you?

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    Hmm. I would probably go start prepping bombers with nerve gas bombs myself. Brazil has a duty to protect its citizens. And frankly the tribes are threatening a awful lot of civilians even if they strictly stick to just "Government" targets. How flame retardant is Danner?

    Also "Paragon" Paul reminds me again why I hate him. What a complete asshole. Also Brazil "officially" stopped their nuclear program in the 90s. I'm not sure they wouldn't have a few squirreled away in an emergency. Also Brazil has the 9th largest economy in the world they could probably pay for a LOT of lextech gear that could go toe to toe with Danner enhanciles. Also China likes to make inroads I could see them offering military aid.

    Also a 'simple' solution is to just napalm suspected village locations. As long as they are remotely close it becomes an issue for the tribes to deal with. Actually pretty much regardless its an issue for the tribes to deal with. While setting the rain-forest on fire will earn condemnation Brazil is going to have to fight very unconventionally.
     
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  22. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Versed in the lewd.

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    Oh also we've seen little of Angelika and I can't wait to see her reaction to this because it is, hilariously enough, right up her angle: a group of "clearly superior" people taking what they want, by her believe system that should be fine and dandy, right? But they are going against the state. Against authority and the status quo.
     
  23. Slayer Anderson

    Slayer Anderson Orthodox Heretic

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    Has Paul discussed the expansion plans the tribes have with the Justice League? Or Brazil? Because it seems like they planned to absorb a lot of territory from other nations as well.

    That would make this the kind of international incident the Justice League is guaranteed to get involved in.

    Or is Paul hoping that he can stop this from escalating into a total war between a small army of super-humans and the entire Justice League?
     
  24. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    You know it's ironic, after all the grief Paul gave people about being face punchers, he's basically made himself into someone who can only solve things through brute force solutions.
     
  25. Redhawk

    Redhawk Getting out there.

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    How do you mean? This whole arc he’s been going out of his way to get these people into peaceful negotiations. If anyone can just eradicate the Accala it’s Paul and he won’t even mind control them to buy time. Come to think of it I don’t think he’s been in a fight since that thing with the fairies.
     
  26. Aeess

    Aeess I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    The gave her access to a spell developed by Atlantean mages based on Supergirls fire magic.
     
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  27. hance1986

    hance1986 A pitiful excuse for a man.

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    She's also refusing super powers because they would mess with her piercings. Icon is far more practical.
     
  28. Steelplaza

    Steelplaza Custom Title

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    This isn't directly related to this update, but I would like to point out that if "Iron Munroe" was a fake we now have exactly zero documented cases of a Danner Enhancile fathering or bearing a child and no idea how or if the enhancement is passed down.

    Presumably this is a question the Accala tribe should be able to answer, and I hope that they do sometime soon. It would be a shame if OL is handing out Danner enhancement right and left and while unknowingly making people infertile or drastically reducing their ability to have children or making it so it's impossible for a Danner enchancile woman to carry a child to term unless the fetus is also treated with the serum (to name a few of the possibilities I can think of).
     
  29. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Also, another thought if the Danners and Brazil go to war. If things start to go badly for Brazil, and lets say no one else steps in to help them, who is the first group they are going to look into hiring?

    Super-Villains.

    Super-Villains who, because of the desperation, would pretty much be given carte blanche to do whatever they'd have to do to win for the government.

    Lex obviously would be getting a call. Which....well this could lead to the Light getting more pull. Satanius and his demons, demonic magic, and the like against the Danners. A whole jungle consumed in hellfire.

    Sounds like quite a party when I think of it.
     
  30. jasonh23761

    jasonh23761 Know what you're doing yet?

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    I'm now split between wanting and not wanting to see that happen now that you've mentioned it.
     
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