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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Vlad said:
He needs to set his sights and threaten innocent bystanders.
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I think he's more likely to seek out other options that could help him first. Now, if those options also pose threat to ponies at large, oh well. I think thats where Discord will come in.

Vlad said:
P.S. I don' t know how Twilight can resolve the realization that she is a murderer. If I killed a person I would be scared for life.
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Its not just that she killed potential people. What makes it hurt is that she killed them for being distracted from watching paint dry. Not to mention that they were poster children for A.D.D. That scene gave me flash backs to Stephen King's "The Long Walk" in terms of inevitable senseless death.

Heck, the whole 'test' screams to me "We're keeping the one who'll annoy me the least."
 
Mr Zoat said:
it does make murder far simple
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simpler
Mr Zoat said:
poofy main and tail
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mane

Grayven is really sinking his teeth into the ponies here... And, without even spilling a drop of blood! :)

Friendship conflicts, clone/twin murder... Wow! :)

I guess Grayven could offer (threaten) to add a Shadow Moon to the system, something ponies couldn't actually see, but would know was there... But, that's talking cosmological change...
 
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Mr Zoat said:
"Oooh, this is fun!" She takes a quick look around and then prances up to me. "Party Popper at your service, for all your celebratory needs." She pulls off her hat-
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Didn't find such a character on a quick googling. I'm docking points from this chapter unless I get proof that this drama wasn't original invention.
 
RichardWhereat said:
You're a monster. Have a snickers.
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Grayven: "Uh..thanks dad?"

*turns the candy bar over*

Grayven: "Oh! Of course it says Anti-Life on the back of the wrapper. I knew it. Fuck you dad!"


Shit..now I'm picturing Darkseid handing out Anti-Life contaminated candy to little children.
 
rkyeun said:
The real Pinkie Pie is dead. She was the second-to-last, the one distracted by Rainbow Dash talking about the balloons.
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... hell, the real Pinkie could have been any of them.

If the spell only effected the clones, then there would have been no need for a test to filter them. She could have just blasted away until she found the real one.

The need for a test implies the spell used would have banished anypony hit to the pool.



.... why am I not surprised the most savage bit of Fridge Logic delivered in the fic so far is in the MLP chapter?
 
This was disturbing.
But even this may not convince the girls to blast him because while what he did is cruel and hurtful they may view it as necessary because like Twilight said sometimes confronting your friends with a terrible reality is better than allowing them to live a lie. What he did is probably one of the worst things that anyone has ever done to them, but still not something that they may see as needing them to shoot him because again while cruel it was necessary as now Twilight may wait to see if someone is really sapient or not before killing them instead of potentially just killing them because they don't fit the definition of what constitutes sapient in her book.
The renegade also did something like this with Sunset where he sent her to a warzone where she had to kill people in order to stop the fighting. She may not have liked it, but she also went through a portal to another universe of which she knew little about and had some tendencies to not listen to her superiors or teachers when they tried to warn her. The renegade actually asked her when she talked to him about this if she was going to ignore him and his advice like she did with Celestia.

Also Vaermina the renegade can use his divine nature to enhance his ring. When he and Will discovered the original Roy Harper, the place that was holding him had wards set up, but the renegade mentioned that by infusing his ring with some of his divine power allowed him to bypass the protections.
Paul may be a better ring wielder, but the renegade does know a few tricks of his own.

Paul similarly isn't as affected by wards anymore, while he still may not be able to scan beyond them, he can see the emotions of the people and beings that the wards are preventing him from scanning and may be able to overpower the wards. He can scan through them but it requires a quintessence waveform scan, like when he tried find Amon.
 
Just chiming in, but isn't it not that the ring can't scan magic, but that a simple, low powered ward blocked the standard scan? Equestrian magic doesn't use magic arrays. Sunset would know about the ward, knows enough about Grayven to have invested in them, but probably wouldn't care enough about the rest of the ponies to tell them about the wards. Twilight could easily come up with the wards, but doesn't know enough about Grayven's abilities to bother looking. Clonnie Pie... Is an Earth Pony and so lacks the knowledge and ability to use those wards. Admittedly she's still a Pinkie so she could anyways, but....
 
zerofarad said:
Is this a misspelling of Grayven, a mishearing of Grayven, or a society which prefers adjective names recasting his name in their mould? I actually quite like that last possibility. (But graven what?) Nm, next chapter makes it clear it's pronunciation.
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Pony names refer to things. Upon hearing 'Grayven', most ponies thing that his name is 'Graven', i.e. 'made of stone'.

Which is a joke that probably shouldn't work because of translation issues, but IGNORE THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!
Alasnuyo said:
Did Sunset notice that some of the stuff that Grayven was talking about, he couldn't have possibly known unless he was personally there?
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Yes.
Idkusername said:
The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know.
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Spree killer implies a level of indiscrimination to me.
RichardWhereat said:
And that Grayven isn't just a ring slinger. He is a god, mantling conquest.
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facehoof

Sockmonkey said:
Welcome to the internet. It can slay both your innocence and ignorance in a single strike.

Twilight isn't the most stable of individuals under normal circumstances. She once flipped out after learning that she may have gotten her favorite librarian fired. This may permanently break her.
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I think I stopped watching before that episode.
 
Vaermina said:
Someone forgot that Power Rings can't detect magic.

Side note, you're doing that bashfic thing again.
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How about scanning for pink ponies in party-adjacent careers? I would have said DNA but I'm not sure if rings can scan for that.

Soft agree on the second part though.
 
As fun as it is to meme about her maybe killing the real Pinkie Pie, I think they're pretty safe.

The clones didn't even know the name of the pony they were cloned from, and were constantly getting the names of other ponies wrong. Which also means a much simpler test would have just been asking them friendship questions.

Like, even if it worked in the end, I don't really get why watching paint dry was the test.

=============

Also, Imagine if instead of freaking out Twilight just went, "Oh, good. I didn't realize I missed one."

large.png
 
Kinda got to agree on the bashing accusation.
This isn't merely assuming that nothing happens off-screen, it is actively changing the world so the actions of the characters are objectively worse.

Spike is fully literate, numerate and reasonably well informed about the world around him. He manifestly has been educated, whether by Twilight or someone else. He also spent much of his life in the palace. AKA the centre of government. If child services somehow wasn't aware of him then they really don't deserve their jobs.

The mining rights issue, apart from being made up whole cloth by the author, is rather muddied by the assault, kidnapping and enslavement crimes of the Diamond Dogs.

The mirror pool horror relies on Twilight Sparkle, highly educated bibliophile and rules obsessed perfectionist, not knowing the ethics of whether a magically created creature is considered a person. Between VR comic books, ancient artefacts, voodoo potions etc it cannot be that rare an occurrence. If nothing else the Mirror Pool itself was famous enough that Pinkie knew the activation ritual.


It will be interesting to see if Grayven gets a 'nuke to the face' moment here. Or possibly another 'you destroyed a person and doomed a country, fix it' situation.
 
This pretty much fits my expectations for this scenario. We're a long way from the simple "guy with an orange ring" the fic was at the start.
 
Queshire said:
I'm kinda waiting for Pinkie #2 to reveal that she reacted that way because she figured it was how she was supposed to react. If all the Pinkie clones thought the same way then she can't really blame them for doing out of ignorance what she would have done in the same position.
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No, that was her genuine response. See the yellow text.
Ace Dreamer said:
mane
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Thank you, corrected.
WereDragon said:
The mining rights issue, apart from being made up whole cloth by the author, is rather muddied by the assault, kidnapping and enslavement crimes of the Diamond Dogs.
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You mean the arrest-and-being-sentenced-to-hard-labour?
The mirror pool horror relies on Twilight Sparkle, highly educated bibliophile and rules obsessed perfectionist, not knowing the ethics of whether a magically created creature is considered a person. Between VR comic books, ancient artefacts, voodoo potions etc it cannot be that rare an occurrence. If nothing else the Mirror Pool itself was famous enough that Pinkie knew the activation ritual.
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You'll note that she didn't make any effort to help the fully realised characters in the comic either.
 
So, I'm wondering how Grayven is going to escalate from this. Giving Spike temporary access to his Orange Lantern Ring, as a way of demonstrating how they've neglected to teach Spike how to handle his draconic nature and magic? Like, I don't think that Spike ever got into real legal trouble from his greed-powered rampage, but I'm not sure if just calling the cops on him would be sufficient.

Other than that, though, I'm not seeing any other events that are particularly significant; a couple of instances of theivery, for instance, or out of control magic wreaking havoc, but nothing too major.
 
Kalem_Lee said:
OOOOHHHHH.

This is not. Goood. Not Good At All.

...What are the chances he scars them so much that the elements shut off or they lose their connection?
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That actually very possible after all:
-He proved that the bearer of the element of Magic wasn't as well versed in magic then she thought and was blinded by her own knowledge, unwilling to think herself wrong and innocent ponies(clones) died because of that.
-He proved that the bearer of the element of Generosity was blinded by her own greed and stole from other peoples without being punished, even if she didn't know that.
-He proved that while her own clones were massacred (even if she didn't know) the Bearer of the element of Laughter was still laughting (that one is a bit of a stretch i know but you understand what i'm trying to say, i doesn't matter if it's accurate if they believe it happened like that)

if the bearer of the element end up losing their faith in the side of the element of harmony that they represent then it's possible that it end up severing their connection to their elements, of course i'm not Mr Zoat and that just what i think.
 
nick012000 said:
So, I'm wondering how Grayven is going to escalate from this. Giving Spike temporary access to his Orange Lantern Ring, as a way of demonstrating how they've neglected to teach Spike how to handle his draconic nature and magic? Like, I don't think that Spike ever got into real legal trouble from his greed-powered rampage, but I'm not sure if just calling the cops on him would be sufficient.

Other than that, though, I'm not seeing any other events that are particularly significant; a couple of instances of theivery, for instance, or out of control magic wreaking havoc, but nothing too major.
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Huh so the baby dragon actually does something beyond burning letters and having an odd interest on the species that raised him?
 
Mr Zoat said:
You mean the arrest-and-being-sentenced-to-hard-labour?
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No signs to indicate the boundary. Attacked from ambush. 'Sentenced' without trial of any sort.

If your only law is might-makes-right then you forfeit any legal standing when faced with someone stronger.

You'll note that she didn't make any effort to help the fully realised characters in the comic either.
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In what way were they 'fully realised'? They were characters adapting within their role. No particular evidence they were sophonts just because they had backstory and motivation to extrapolate reactions from.
 
Mr Zoat said:
You mean the arrest-and-being-sentenced-to-hard-labour?
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Seems unlikely to me. It is indeed possible since I have watched precisely 1 episode of MLP and don't know the specifics of this event but if a competent ruler had multiple enclaves of ethnically different people, who not only have no extradition treaty with you but also do not have trials or courts or potentially even a modern government then you should probably put serious warnings around their reservations.

The third paragraph of the linked article it possibly a better way to deal with the Diamond Dogs, but I might be misestimating their civilisation's legal status. The other option here is that Celestia runs a worse government than India.

This is certainly possible, however as we see in this fiction she has laws similar to those in modern western democracies and agencies to carry those laws out such as Child Protective Services, a Department of Aboriginal Affairs (most likely, otherwise who is going to recognise the Diamond Dog justice system?) and at least an Attorney General which presumes other judges and potentially a whole, thus far unseen, judicial branch of the Equestrian government.

This suggests at least that Celestia wants to do good, from a modern western perspective, so why does all this clone-murder not get reported? If you are going forward with the idea that Celestia's government is incompetent at the least then by building all these agencies and governmental branches you are somewhat trapping yourself here I think. Celestia is probably the head of state and government but she does have other people to manage the day to day running of law, are they all incompetent or is it just that diamond dogs have especially poor representation, such that not even the apple family knew they owned the land nearby?

Presumably she got told about the mass clone killing but just assumed that a child prodigy, with well known psychological issues with empathy would have checked for sapience and consciousness first? If that were the case though what is the check for consciousness? i'm sure Grayven's DC could use that test.

Did Mayor Mare not think the whole event was odd enough to look into? Are there police departments outside of Canterlot, do none of them have magical detectives? If Celestia is stupid fine, but this direction I think needs to find all ponies stupid pretty shortly. Which is why I refer to the bearers as children because I think all of the ponies have the emotional and intellectual abilites of children, some of them very smart children but children nonetheless.

Edit: Imagine a species that didn't reach mental maturity until after their bodies wore out from age, seems like a cool sci-fi premise. Still I think Celestia deserves a bit more credit than she is getting, or else the whole society needs overhauling.
 
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