With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

Bardy Croutch in spite of being a literal enemy plant was the most competent defence against the dark arts teacher harry's year had, he actually did his job and taught them how to fight the dark arts and what they were. Unlike the other teachers who tip-toed around the subject. When his tenure ended all of his students where more capable of defending themselves which was his job.

we should remember his class wasn't about ethics or math or anything like that defence against the dark arts is a self-defence course at best and a military train program at worst.

EDIT:
Basically he showed them "This is what your enemy looks like, this is what it does and it's offensive capabilities, here is how to defend against it."



What else is a modern teacher expected to do?

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Yeah I agree that Barty did his job if all his lessons were like the unforgivable lecture, I just don't think we saw any other lessons (although that could be applied to most of the classes I think, so extrapolating is fine). I don't know what spells, if any, he taught though (in a teach them to cast it way, not "this spell exists" way).


Snape could: not bully the students, not show favouritism or prejudice, not attack the students, not try and frame the students, not help terrorists that want to kill the students (extenuating circumstances non withstanding), not try and scare/surprise the students while they're handling dangerous substances. They's probably more, but off the top of my head those are the reasons Snape was a bad teacher.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Support their students. Maintain a sense of fairness and decorum. Inspire not just skill but interest in the subject matter.

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This is entirely unfamiliar to me, I have never encountered a teacher that did all of those things as well as actually teaching the class.

Yeah I agree that Barty did his job if all his lessons were like the unforgivable lecture, I just don't think we saw any other lessons (although that could be applied to most of the classes I think, so extrapolating is fine). I don't know what spells, if any, he taught though (in a teach them to cast it way, not "this spell exists" way).


Snape could: not bully the students, not show favouritism or prejudice, not attack the students, not try and frame the students, not help terrorists that want to kill the students (extenuating circumstances non withstanding), not try and scare/surprise the students while they're handling dangerous substances. They's probably more, but off the top of my head those are the reasons Snape was a bad teacher.

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Not defending snape he I completely agree with you.
I think he expected his student to be competent enough at that stage to be able to learn a spell after having it demonstrated to them.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

They's probably more, but off the top of my head those are the reasons Snape was a bad teacher.

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A couple of reasons I saw pointed out in a fic were that Snape expected students to follow instructions exactly without ever bothering to explain why procedures were meant to be done the way they were. Meanwhile he also refused to teach any of the actual theory behind potionmaking that would have explained why ingredients interact to produce the effects they do.

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

This is entirely unfamiliar to me, I have never encountered a teacher that did all of those things as well as actually teaching the class.


Not defending snape he I completely agree with you.
I think he expected his student to be competent enough at that stage to be able to learn a spell after having it demonstrated to them.

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I just saw the thread we're posting in and started wandering how we even got onto this subject... something something incompetent teachers ergo Celestia? Either way, let's stop the detail here as we both seem to be in agreement anyway.

 

[Mr Zoat]

A couple of reasons I saw pointed out in a fic were that Snape expected students to follow instructions exactly without ever bothering to explain why procedures were meant to be done the way they were. Meanwhile he also refused to teach any of the actual theory behind potionmaking that would have explained why ingredients interact to produce the effects they do.

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I'm not convinced that Potterverse wizard know the theory. I'm not even convinced they know 'theory'.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

I'm not convinced that Potterverse wizard know the theory. I'm not even convinced they know 'theory'.

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Well, said fic also had Salazar Slytherin as having been an actually decent guy who was the victim of history gettimg distorted over time so clearly some "creative liberties" were taken by the author.

 

[Valint]

Really? I mean, in general, yes, but I read Twilight as a young adult. She doesn't read younger than any of her friends, who clearly have been in a work life for a while. Then again, Equestria is quite rural, so it may be that the usual life path is some sort of a on-the-job apprenticeship after finishing basic education, so they could be late teens in S1E1.

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My assumption would be that there's much less mandatory schooling. After they discover their special talent, most ponies presumably go off and start doing that rather than sticking with school.

I'm thinking of it like a society where it's routine for people to start working full-time at around 13, which means you'd have ~16-year-olds with radically different paths/challenges/issues from a normal American teenager, but not necessarily at a higher emotional/maturity level.

When someone comes to my Judo club and asks to be taught a technique, a technique that and injure, cripple, or even kill another human being. I TEACH THEM THE TECHNIQUE.

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... yeah, and if you were a grandmaster out of martial arts flick, and someone was asking to learn the instant-death touch attack that you've never taught anyone else?

It seems a bizarre assumption to assume that the default is "Well, sure, you're obviously going to get god-like powers, and it's my duty to make sure you do!", as opposed to the default being that, no, you don't get handed the keys to the universe if your mentor doesn't think you're ready, and it's entirely possible they will never think you're ready.

If a martial arts grandmaster tells you he's not going to teach his instant-death touch attack, and he wants you to go sit under a waterfall and contemplate the wind, feels like you go sit under the damn waterfall, contemplate the wind and trust that he has your best interests at heart... or don't and leave. You don't get to be pissy about it, either way.

I mean, there's a difference between "Everyone's allowed to get a gun in my country, so if someone comes to me asking to be taught, it's my responsibility to make sure they learn how to shoot a gun responsibility and safely" and "This person asked if I'd teach them how to make a nuclear bomb".

 

[Coda]

A couple of reasons I saw pointed out in a fic were that Snape expected students to follow instructions exactly without ever bothering to explain why procedures were meant to be done the way they were. Meanwhile he also refused to teach any of the actual theory behind potionmaking that would have explained why ingredients interact to produce the effects they do.

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In low-level chemistry classes you may not necessarily learn how the reactions happen, but you're getting hands-on experience with laboratory safety and procedures and getting a feel for what you should expect. You might get a rough idea of the relationships in the periodic table so you could guess at what you might be able to substitute, but that's not really the primary focus of the introductory classes. The potions classes that we have canon information about certainly fit into how introductory chemistry classes are taught (or at least, used to be, before funding for school labs evaporated and paranoia over safety ramped up).

I mean, there's a difference between "Everyone's allowed to get a gun in my country, so if someone comes to me asking to be taught, it's my responsibility to make sure they learn how to shoot a gun responsibility and safely" and "This person asked if I'd teach them how to make a nuclear bomb".

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There is a difference, of course, but the difference boils down to "how much trouble is it going to cause if they try to figure it out for themselves / find someone else to teach them?" If you're the only person in the world that knows the death touch technique, and if there's no way they could figure it out on their own, then there's really no risk in saying "no." If, on the other hand, your rival / villainous counterpart ALSO knows the death touch technique, then it may be better to take the student in instead of risking the alternative.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

... yeah, and if you were a grandmaster out of martial arts flick, and someone was asking to learn the instant-death touch attack that you've never taught anyone else?

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Well first off, there is no death touch. I only say that because a great deal of scammers continue to push that myth.

Moving on.

So, couple of things to consider I suppose. Did he seek me out? Did I seek him out? Do I know that he's the chosen one destined to face Baron Von Baron, the evily evilman?

That being said, we will start with the basics.

"So you want to learn death touch eh?"

We will start with the stances of death touch. I will explain why this is important, why it is needed to make the technique work, and other basics. I will correct flaws when seen, explain why the are flaws, and praise proper progress.

Then I suppose, as it is a kung fu flick, I will give reading material on the 9 points of death that one must touch to death touch. Study them in your free time, and learn them well.

Then I will introduce Paralyzing palm. Because you don't always have to death touch. Sometimes it's better to leave them alive for various reason. Also, understanding Paralyzing will better help you understand death touch.

Then, after all that, we learn death touch.

It seems a bizarre assumption to assume that the default is "Well, sure, you're obviously going to get god-like powers, and it's my duty to make sure you do!", as opposed to the default being that, no, you don't get handed the keys to the universe if your mentor doesn't think you're ready, and it's entirely possible they will never think you're ready.

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Mentor "Doesn't think you are ready" is stupid horseshit that only serves to pad out a story.

That said, "You can't learn death touch yet because you're too god damn fat, your physicality sucks, and you have no stamina. So you're not ready." is not the same as "Your oneness with those around you and the universe and the universe inside you is not fully ready to be covered in the cosmic microwave...go do pointless shit that I will not help with or explain."

If you aren't able to perform, than I'm going to train you to MAKE you able do perform.

Beyond that, a villain with half a brain could easily tempt the hero over to their side by just being decent to them. "Yeah, here is the training you want. Here's a nice paying job, and all your needs met. Say...why don't we just take this motherfucker over yeah?"

If a martial arts grandmaster tells you he's not going to teach his instant-death touch attack, and he wants you to go sit under a waterfall and contemplate the wind, feels like you go sit under the damn waterfall, contemplate the wind and trust that he has your best interests at heart... or don't and leave. You don't get to be pissy about it, either way.

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Then the grandmaster is shit, is wasting your time, and its no surprise when his student either turns evil and destroys all that he cares about, or gets killed by Baron Von Baron of eviltown before he can do anything and now said student is really on the backfoot as he does not have the skills that you didn't bother to teach him....and only the author's ass contains the measures to save you now.

Because sitting under a waterfall, contemplating the wind, and trusting someone refuses to actually tell you anything....is fucking stupid and is a trope that needs to go die.

Also yes you DO get to be pissy about it if...

1. He sought you out as a student.

2. You were sent to him via agreement to learn the things you need to know to stop Baron Von Baron from killing you/everyone.

3. You are his last shot, and without you everything that he has learned, and everything that has come before him to get him to this point, dies with him. Thus wasting the time and lives of everyone who came before him.

I mean, there's a difference between "Everyone's allowed to get a gun in my country, so if someone comes to me asking to be taught, it's my responsibility to make sure they learn how to shoot a gun responsibility and safely" and "This person asked if I'd teach them how to make a nuclear bomb".

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No. It's more like "This person asked me/I ask them to be my student, to teach them the knowledge that COULD allow them to make a nuclear bomb." But instead I chose to fuck around, piss them off, fuck around, waste their time, fuck around, piss them off, waste more time, fuck around a little bit more, waste some more time, piss them off even further and suddenly HOLY FUCK, THEY WENT AND LEARNED HOW TO MAKE A NUCLEAR BOMB BEHIND MY BACK AND NOW THEY WANT TO DETONATE IT JUST TO HURT ME!!

Ah shit...who could have seen that coming?

Because fictional mentors are NOT real teachers, written by people who don't actually give a fuck about the process, nor do they understand it. So instead, they'll pull some stupid shit out of their ass later down the line to give their hero the skills/power that you should have done in the first place Mentor.

Then, after that, hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of fanfics will be written around the premise of "Why didn't he just teach him death touch?"

 

[Lord Ernest]

Bravo, kudos! I officially request for Maxx to be my Mentor! I'll most likely end up learning how to be a Red Lantern, but I can see it would still be glorious!!

Nonetheless, this is a weird derail, but I still like it. Almost as much as this arc, which keeps being awesome and which I'm going to miss when it ends.

I have the recent doubt if Sunset is going to stay in Equestria? I imagine so, 'cause she really wants to be an Alicorn, but maybe the portal/Mirror is going to stay permanently open (which of course doesn't sound dangerous, no sir) and she will just come and go? If not then I'm going to miss her and her interactions with Grayven.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Bravo, kudos! I officially request for Maxx to be my Mentor! I'll most likely end up learning how to be a Red Lantern, but I can see it would still be glorious!!

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Depends entirely what Maxx's super powers are in said universe where he is mentoring you

 

[SotF]

You know, it's kind of interesting that Grayven picked up a lot of stuff from this universes Batman for parenting.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

In low-level chemistry classes you may not necessarily learn how the reactions happen, but you're getting hands-on experience with laboratory safety and procedures and getting a feel for what you should expect. You might get a rough idea of the relationships in the periodic table so you could guess at what you might be able to substitute, but that's not really the primary focus of the introductory classes. The potions classes that we have canon information about certainly fit into how introductory chemistry classes are taught (or at least, used to be, before funding for school labs evaporated and paranoia over safety ramped up).

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The schools I attended didn't do it that way, at least not in the limited bits of chemistry taught in the mandatory generic "Science" classes. It was always theory first, lab work (what little lab work there was) later.

 

[King of Frost]

The schools I attended didn't do it that way, at least not in the limited bits of chemistry taught in the mandatory generic "Science" classes. It was always theory first, lab work (what little lab work there was) later.

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My first real chemistry class was in college. I went to a religious middle and high school where while they taught the basics of the basics a lot of stuff boiled down to "Write that this is actually wrong because we your teachers believe it's wrong with no evidence against it for an extra point."

 

[rkyeun]

She lowers her head slightly. "I would appreciate it if you would tell me anyway."

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"Should I make you leave the palace, get some perspective, and then be banished from Equestria for thirty years instead of telling you the truth? That would be the generous, loyal, funny, honest, kind thing to do, right?"

 

[Stsword]

I'm not convinced that Potterverse wizard know the theory. I'm not even convinced they know 'theory'.

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Snape invented at least seven spells while a teen at Hogwarts (including that cut a bitch spell Harry used on Malfoy), the twin's joke shop included potions and charms of their own invention, and Hermione probably invented a couple of the spells she used, since one was in English and no one could figure out how to undo her snitch curse.

So I'd say their knowledge of the fundamentals of thaumatology is just fine.

 

[rkyeun]

Coda TheMidnightRook
Our chemistry classes started with: "Here are four beakers of clear colorless liquid. One is water. The other three will kill you if you taste them. Give me ideas for how we can find the water." "Here are four dishes of white powder. One is powdered sugar. The other three will kill you if you taste them. Give me ideas for how to find the sugar." And then the teacher walked us through trying the safe ways. This then became more complex over the course of the year until we were doing distillation and filtration and gas separation and freezing point depression - and ended in us making vanilla ice cream.

 

[Cuchulin]

Well first off, there is no death touch. I only say that because a great deal of scammers continue to push that myth.

Moving on.

So, couple of things to consider I suppose. Did he seek me out? Did I seek him out? Do I know that he's the chosen one destined to face Baron Von Baron, the evily evilman?

That being said, we will start with the basics.

"So you want to learn death touch eh?"

We will start with the stances of death touch. I will explain why this is important, why it is needed to make the technique work, and other basics. I will correct flaws when seen, explain why the are flaws, and praise proper progress.

Then I suppose, as it is a kung fu flick, I will give reading material on the 9 points of death that one must touch to death touch. Study them in your free time, and learn them well.

Then I will introduce Paralyzing palm. Because you don't always have to death touch. Sometimes it's better to leave them alive for various reason. Also, understanding Paralyzing will better help you understand death touch.

Then, after all that, we learn death touch.

Mentor "Doesn't think you are ready" is stupid horseshit that only serves to pad out a story.

That said, "You can't learn death touch yet because you're too god damn fat, your physicality sucks, and you have no stamina. So you're not ready." is not the same as "Your oneness with those around you and the universe and the universe inside you is not fully ready to be covered in the cosmic microwave...go do pointless shit that I will not help with or explain."

If you aren't able to perform, than I'm going to train you to MAKE you able do perform.

Beyond that, a villain with half a brain could easily tempt the hero over to their side by just being decent to them. "Yeah, here is the training you want. Here's a nice paying job, and all your needs met. Say...why don't we just take this motherfucker over yeah?"

Then the grandmaster is shit, is wasting your time, and its no surprise when his student either turns evil and destroys all that he cares about, or gets killed by Baron Von Baron of eviltown before he can do anything and now said student is really on the backfoot as he does not have the skills that you didn't bother to teach him....and only the author's ass contains the measures to save you now.

Because sitting under a waterfall, contemplating the wind, and trusting someone refuses to actually tell you anything....is fucking stupid and is a trope that needs to go die.

Also yes you DO get to be pissy about it if...

1. He sought you out as a student.

2. You were sent to him via agreement to learn the things you need to know to stop Baron Von Baron from killing you/everyone.

3. You are his last shot, and without you everything that he has learned, and everything that has come before him to get him to this point, dies with him. Thus wasting the time and lives of everyone who came before him.

No. It's more like "This person asked me/I ask them to be my student, to teach them the knowledge that COULD allow them to make a nuclear bomb." But instead I chose to fuck around, piss them off, fuck around, waste their time, fuck around, piss them off, waste more time, fuck around a little bit more, waste some more time, piss them off even further and suddenly HOLY FUCK, THEY WENT AND LEARNED HOW TO MAKE A NUCLEAR BOMB BEHIND MY BACK AND NOW THEY WANT TO DETONATE IT JUST TO HURT ME!!

Ah shit...who could have seen that coming?

Because fictional mentors are NOT real teachers, written by people who don't actually give a fuck about the process, nor do they understand it. So instead, they'll pull some stupid shit out of their ass later down the line to give their hero the skills/power that you should have done in the first place Mentor.

Then, after that, hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of fanfics will be written around the premise of "Why didn't he just teach him death touch?"

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Most of the stuff you are objecting to is a essential part of many Eastern of Martial Art and any martial art that has actual mystical death touch as part of it. Part of the martial arts that are hundreds of years old is a spiritual philosophy and even most modern martial arts are about "beating people" and "Boot to the Head" Ed Gruberman. The real point of the chop socky and what gives people 'flying fists of fury' is cultivating ones spirit, the mind as well as the body. Even Roranora Zoro isn't able to cut stone and steel by brute force, he is able to hear the "breath" of things via oneness with his surroundings. Shaolin Monks have such a reputation as badass mofo's as much because they are monks and so holy men as anything else.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Most of the stuff you are objecting to is a essential part of many Eastern of Martial Art and any martial art that has actual mystical death touch as part of it.

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Right. The bullshit.

Part of the martial arts that are hundreds of years old is a spiritual philosophy

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Of bullshit.

The real point of the chop socky and what gives people 'flying fists of fury' is cultivating ones spirit, the mind as well as the body.

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Written by people who have no clue as to what they are talking about most of the time.

BUT! The good ones actually show the hero being trained. Drunken Master was all about that. Hence it's a classic.

Even Roranora Zoro isn't able to cut stone and steel by brute force, he is able to hear the "breath" of things via oneness with his surroundings.

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11th hour superpower bullshit and I really like One Piece. Though, I guess at this point it was actually Haki the whole time.

Shaolin Monks have such a reputation as badass mofo's as much because they are monks and so holy men as anything else.

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Overblown and untested at that. Let's see them take one a modern fighter.

 

[Valint]

Well first off, there is no death touch. I only say that because a great deal of scammers continue to push that myth.

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Okay, I apparently live in a world that's both stranger and stupider than I thought.

... on the other hand, I've had to deal with scammers convincing people that if they write their names in all lowercase letters, that activates some super-secret part of the law that means you don't have to pay taxes any more, so... man, I'm depressed at humanity now.

Because sitting under a waterfall, contemplating the wind, and trusting someone refuses to actually tell you anything....is fucking stupid and is a trope that needs to go die.

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Eh. We'll dealing with magic. It's presumably not going to happen here, but I'm completely okay with the idea that there are parts of the alicornization process that don't work if you know too much about them.

We already have an example of something similar in the setting (activating the Element of Generosity requires you to give away something without expecting to receive anything in return... which, if you know about the reward, is basically impossible to do). Considering how conceptual the setting's magic is, "there's a key step that requires you to do X purely to do X, not because you're expecting a reward" is pretty plausible.

I mean, that's basically the best head-canon I've heard for why the guy who came up with the spell Twilight used to become an alicorn did not, himself, subsequently become an alicorn.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Okay, I apparently live in a world that's both stranger and stupider than I thought.

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Bullshido is out there, its real, and its dangerous. I can't tell you how many people I've met that took a "Street Karate" course and legit believe that they can handle themselves.

It gets people killed.

... on the other hand, I've had to deal with scammers convincing people that if they write their names in all lowercase letters, that activates some super-secret part of the law that means you don't have to pay taxes any more, so... man, I'm depressed at humanity now.

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Ah, freeman on the land?

Eh. We'll dealing with magic. It's presumably not going to happen here, but I'm completely okay with the idea that there are parts of the alicornization process that don't work if you know too much about them.

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I can't comment on whatever the hell pony thing is being done.

But not only am I objecting as someone how teaches people techniques that are literally as old as warfare, I'm also protesting on the grounds of BAD WRITING.

If the waterfall wind thing is actually important, then the Mentor should explain why it is. Explain HOW it is to be done (Because thats how it works)

Not give vague, riddle wrapped hints designed solely to piss someone off because "They've got to figure it out themselves."

I dont' know a single discipline that is taught by you "figuring it out yourself."

That's not training.

 

[Cuchulin]

Right. The bullshit.
Of bullshit.
Written by people who have no clue as to what they are talking about most of the time.

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They also got a lot right Ed Gruberman and just because it's "bullshit" to you doesn't mean that it isn't a legit moral/spiritual philosophy. If you learn martial arts so you can use "nifty move" to "trash some bozos" you are missing the point.

BUT! The good ones actually show the hero being trained. Drunken Master was all about that. Hence it's a classic.
11th hour superpower bullshit and I really like One Piece. Though, I guess at this point it was actually Haki the whole time.
Overblown and untested at that. Let's see them take one a modern fighter.

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Again you are missing the point. Martial arts aren't just about winning fights and in world like that of One Piece the "bullshit" is what allows for "11th hour superpower bullshit". Also I wasn't talking about "Shaolin" kung fu or how good they really are in a fight (even though many were probably very good). It's their rep and the fact that they are at least supposed to be the founders of many styles of Kung Fu such as Wing Chung which Bruce Lee used before he started developing JKD.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

They also got a lot right Ed Gruberman and just because it's "bullshit" to you doesn't mean that it isn't a legit moral/spiritual philosophy. If you learn martial arts so you can use "nifty move" to "trash some bozos".

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I have no idea who this Ed is.

Lots of people claim to have a "legit" moral/spiritual philosophy that's actually grounded in bullshit.

I learned Martial arts because grappling is fun, and it's quite helpful to know how to handle yourself. Especially if you're a gay boy in a small town with a lot of people having a legit moral/spiritual philosophy.

I did not learn them to learn to channel my bullshit inner energy to do things that can't be done.

Again you are missing the point.

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No. I'm dismissing it as irrelevant.

Martial arts aren't just about winning fights

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It's literally about winning/surviving fights. The Martial art is right there.

and in world like that of One Piece the "bullshit" is what allows for "11th hour superpower bullshit"

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It's the 11th hour part that makes it bullshit. Zoro just goes "Man, that thing I was told about that one time would really be helpful here. Guess I'll just pull the ability out of my ass at the very second I absolutely have to."

Also I wasn't talking about "Shaolin" kung fu or how good they really are in a fight (even though many were probably very good).

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Maybe, we've no way of knowing at this point.

It's their rep and the fact that they are at least supposed to be the founders of many styles of Kung Fu such as Wing Chung which Bruce Lee used before he started developing JKD.

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Yes, Many styles of Kung fu that have been shown repeatedly to be rather useless in the modern era as they are too filled with bullshit. Which lead to people, like the mentioned Bruce Lee, to devoting their efforts into trying to get the bullshit OUT.

The little bird flies under the rock with the south wind blowing-And a boxer just knocked you the fuck out Aang.

Finally, lets not forget that my criticism was of so called Mentor's sending their students off to do bullshit acts, without explaining shit, instead of actually training them.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

I dont' know a single discipline that is taught by you "figuring it out yourself."

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Well, in some of the more prudish education systems, that's basically how Sex Ed is taught.

I have no idea who this Ed is.

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Watch... well, listen too, the video Cuchulin included with their post. Ed Gruberman is one of the characters in the skit.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Well, in some of the more prudish education systems, that's basically how Sex Ed is taught.

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And it's basically known as a failure yeah.

Watch... well, listen too, the video Cuchulin included with their post. Ed Gruberman is one of the characters in the skit.

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I don't recall requesting homework.

So, nah.

 

[Siskulous]

There are maybe, MAYBE, three competent teachers in the whole school.

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McGonnegal, Flitwick, Firenze, Sprout, Hooch, Grubbly-Plank, and Lupus. That's six and a half (Grubbly-Plank is just a sub) off the top of my head and includes most of the teachers who were present for the whole series. It should also be pointed out that we know there were a great many other teachers at Hogwarts who didn't feature in the books. We know that Hermione is quite fond of Vector (and Hermione liking a teacher is probably a very good sign). And there are several other teachers who are only mentioned in passing (Burbage, Kettleburn). We can safely surmise that there are a great many other teachers that aren't even mentioned in the books.

For the teachers who were undeniably bad most of them can easily be explained by the fact that getting decent teachers for Defense Against The Dark Arts is basically impossible due to the curse (and Dumbledore manages it one year anyway, maybe two given that we have no idea how good Moody would have been). For the others: Trelawny was just there because she needed to be protected, and what we see of Snape in the series reflects more on his hateon for Harry than his abilities as a teacher. Consider: getting into the advanced potions class requires a perfect score on the potions OWL and enough of Snape's students hit that high standard to have reasonable class sizes in advanced potions every year. So he's demonstrably a good teacher when Harry and Harry's friends are not in the room. Slughorn actually was a pretty good teacher as far as the job itself went. He just had the creepy Slug Club thing going on. Which, seemingly, is not as creepy to wizard society as it would be to muggle society. Binns is actually pretty typical of history teachers (how in the world the vast majority of them can take a subject as interesting as history and manage to make it boring is completely beyond me) and has probably been there longer than any living person has been around anyway. Hagrid.....Yeah, no, got nothing there. I could see giving him a chance (his practical knowledge of the subject is unquestionable after all) but after the first disastrous year he should have been replaced by Grubbly-Plank.

As for the support staff, the only one who isn't top notch is Filch. And, really, when you consider just his job performance....I mean he's one guy who keeps an entire huge castle - big enough to house hundreds of students plus the staff - clean and in good repair. With his only help being a grumpy old cat. Without magic. I mean....damn. Just imagine trying to do that job.

So, yeah. All in all I think Dumbledore does a pretty decent job overall staffing the school. Not a perfect job, but a decent one.

Depends entirely what Maxx's super powers are in said universe where he is mentoring you

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You with a red ring is very easy to picture though. It could just be what you post here here, but you do seem ta have a lot of anger.

Right. The bullshit.

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Seconded. Here's a tip: when getting into martial arts either pick a style that's actually been used successfully - key word that - by a military (and then make sure you're getting the real deal not some watered down version of Krav Maga) or just go with MMA. MMA's gotten to the point that it's pretty well thrown out what doesn't work from a whole slew of styles and mixed the rest together.

It's literally about winning/surviving fights. The Martial art is right there.

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Well let's be perfectly fair. There are more than a few martial arts styles around today that are all about fitness. Some of them (Taebo and Tai-Chi come to mind) don't even try to say otherwise. And then you have crap like XMA that doesn't even try to pretend that it's anything other than pure showmanship.

Maybe, we've no way of knowing at this point.

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We do, actually. Historically Shaolin were VERY good in fights. We have documented evidence of their prowess from as early as their defense of the monastery from bandits and their participation in the Battle of Hulao in the 7th century (though that far back it's debatable whether they were actually trained in the monastery or trained elsewhere). That was the beginning of their martial tradition, and as of the 15th century it was completely integrated with their religion. Throughout the 16th century they participated in defending China from the wokou pirate raids and made quite a good showing. There are pretty detailed records of those battles. Though I think it's important to remember that with Shaolin the actual martial art came first and then got integrated with the spiritual stuff as part of their religion later.

 

[ShadowSovereign8]

im going to go ahead and say this. while i find the whole conversation about martial arts and teaching fascinating, i dont actually think it is relevant anymore to the story. maybe we can stop the derail?

 

[david]

McGonnegal, Flitwick, Firenze, Sprout, Hooch, Grubbly-Plank, and Lupus.

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McGonnegal, sure.

Flitwick, sure.

Firenze most notably replaced one of the most useless teachers in the school and then only got half the lessons because said useless teacher came back. Putting aside the fact that divination has never actually been shown as being useful outside of natural-born abilities, the whole Firenze situation just goes to show how terrible the hiring policy is at that school.

Sprout, sure.

Hooch, the teacher who shouted at Neville to "come back" rather than actually telling him how or helping him? No.

Grubbly-Plank again only serves to illustrate how terrible the long term teachers are and how competent teachers will be sidelined as soon as Dumbledore can manage it.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

You with a red ring is very easy to picture though. It could just be what you post here here, but you do seem ta have a lot of anger.

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Well yes, Red or yellow I'd imagine.

But where I writing an SI like Zoat, I don't think I'd pick a power ring at this point. Sci-fi tech is neither an interest of mine really, or a strong point.

Seconded. Here's a tip: when getting into martial arts either pick a style that's actually been used successfully - key word that - by a military (and then make sure you're getting the real deal not some watered down version of Krav Maga) or just go with MMA. MMA's gotten to the point that it's pretty well thrown out what doesn't work from a whole slew of styles and mixed the rest together.

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I mean, at the same time, a lot of "MMA" gyms are just trash.

The point thing to consider when training any martial art, in my opinion, is do they spar full contact in some way? Boxing and Kickboxing wear gloves and headgear. Judo and BJJ utilize thick crash mats.

The key being that there is no "If you do this, this SHOULD happen." and instead "If you do this" WHAM! "That's what happens."

Sure, Aikido claims to be able to shatter limbs, rip tendons, and I dunno, tear out souls...and sure, many of the techniques COULD do that...maybe.

But how many times have they done so?

I know I can choke you out, because I've choked people out.

Plain Jane amateur wrestling has gone on tears in combat sports despite being quite watered down these days. Yet still effective. Why? Because when a wrestler shoots for takedown...he's done that takedown probably a million times in his life. He knows what he can do.

 

[Siskulous]

I mean, at the same time, a lot of "MMA" gyms are just trash.

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True, but I think you and I both know that almost all styles have their....shall we say "embarassing" dojos/gyms/whatever.

The point thing to consider when training any martial art, in my opinion, is do they spar full contact in some way? Boxing and Kickboxing wear gloves and headgear. Judo and BJJ utilize thick crash mats.

The key being that there is no "If you do this, this SHOULD happen." and instead "If you do this" WHAM! "That's what happens."

Sure, Aikido claims to be able to shatter limbs, rip tendons, and I dunno, tear out souls...and sure, many of the techniques COULD do that...maybe.

But how many times have they done so?

I know I can choke you out, because I've choked people out.

Plain Jane amateur wrestling has gone on tears in combat sports despite being quite watered down these days. Yet still effective. Why? Because when a wrestler shoots for takedown...he's done that takedown probably a million times in his life. He knows what he can do.

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Oh yes. Absolutely. Trying to learn how to fight without sparing is like trying to learn how to swim without getting wet. I forget where that quote comes from, but I absolutely believe it. If you're not sparring at all you have no way of knowing if what you're doing works. If you're doing point sparring all you're learning is to pull your punches. Full contact sparring is key.