With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Sockmonkey]

Wouldn't the orks be really easy for an orange ring to subvert? Kind of like how OL was able to bring Mammon around? Whey want to break shit so it's just a matter of aiming them.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Assuming that one link to the figures is what Paul is working with . . . Good news. The Tau have big titty waifus.

I'm sure it won't be too difficult to get used to their faces. Pus comes to shove, he could probably just use his ring to make himself okay with their faces.

I'm talking about this because I have never liked nor cared for the Orks, so Ork talk is meaningless to me.

 

[jaelin910]

Assuming that one link to the figures is what Paul is working with . . . Good news. The Tau have big titty waifus.

Click to shrink...

Seems as though that's what he meant by rubber forehead aliens

 

[WaleXdraK]

But...but they're tau. For Emperors sake they don't even fight in melee. You cant fix what is already that broken.

Click to shrink...

Exactly! They have good tech and can build mech, so why didn't they build mech equipped with sword?! Guns are so last year.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Should be "shamans" rather than "shamen"

Click to shrink...

Shamasal, actually, but the SI doesn't always think with perfect grammar.

Just to check, but is that the mental noise that was intended here?

Click to shrink...

Yes.

Zoat is there a version of the SI that ended up in the She Ra Princess of Power universe?

Click to shrink...

That setting Goes In The Box.

Though recovering Princess Adora is a long term objective of the He-Man version.

Is there a version of the SI that has ended up in a romantic relationship with a male?
Will we ever see him if there is?

Click to shrink...

I don't have one in mind at the moment.

Assuming that one link to the figures is what Paul is working with . . . Good news. The Tau have big titty waifus.

Click to shrink...

I don't think that's actually canon.

...

Never mind.

 

[GhostKing 666]

What are Kroks? I've never heard of them?

Click to shrink...

The original version of the Orks, back during the War in Heaven. Modern Orks are their degenerated descendants, because every galactic power with two brain cells to rub together head shots any Ork Warboss that looks like it could be turning into a Krork and leveling what infrastructure got made.

See, Orks are basically a living RTS race, complete with a tech base that's genetically and psychically encoded into them. The more successful an Ork Waaagh is, the more of their own techbase they can unlock(and the bigger and stronger the Orks themselves become). After a few centuries to a millennia of success, an Ork Waaagh can go from zero space flight and little industry to being scary developed across hundreds of worlds and being on the verge of constructing their own Attack Moons and Attack Planets.

Orks are the only race that fought during the War in Heaven that could actually restore themselves to the heights they had at the time, becoming Krork once again but this is not a good thing as Krork are still a rather monstrous race of living weapons, just with psychically boosted scary advanced technology, insanely huge disciplined armies of gigantic powered armored Krork(Imperial Knight sized and beyond) and the ability to speak in proper grammar.

During the Great Crusade, the main reason the Emperor pushed for such a rapid blitzkrieg of the galaxy was because the Ork Empires at Gorro and Ullanor were getting scary close to reaching the point where they snow ball beyond all control(Gorro itself was an almost complete Attack Planet), and odds are those weren't the only ones as well.

 

[Darko]

I'm afraid to ask, but what is The Box?
A place where you put potential future chapters hopefully?

 

[Mr Zoat]

The original version of the Orks, back during the War in Heaven. Modern Orks are their degenerated descendants, because every galactic power with two brain cells to rub together head shots any Ork Warboss that looks like it could be turning into a Krork and leveling what infrastructure got made.

See, Orks are basically a living RTS race, complete with a tech base that's genetically and psychically encoded into them. The more successful an Ork Waaagh is, the more of their own techbase they can unlock(and the bigger and stronger the Orks themselves become). After a few centuries to a millennia of success, an Ork Waaagh can go from zero space flight and little industry to being scary developed across hundreds of worlds and being on the verge of constructing their own Attack Moons and Attack Planets.

Orks are the only race that fought during the War in Heaven that could actually restore themselves to the heights they had at the time, becoming Krork once again but this is not a good thing as Krork are still a rather monstrous race of living weapons, just with psychically boosted scary advanced technology, insanely huge disciplined armies of gigantic powered armored Krork(Imperial Knight sized and beyond) and the ability to speak in proper grammar.

During the Great Crusade, the main reason the Emperor pushed for such a rapid blitzkrieg of the galaxy was because the Ork Empires at Gorro and Ullanor were getting scary close to reaching the point where they snow ball beyond all control(Gorro itself was an almost complete Attack Planet), and odds are those weren't the only ones as well.

Click to shrink...

That whole thing is total retcon BS which I won't be using.

I'm afraid to ask, but what is The Box?
A place where you put potential future chapters hopefully?

Click to shrink...

No. It's a more portable version of Room 101.

 

[Darko]

Eh, still liked the series, and i really think that he could have helped Hordak with, well everything that happened to him.

Are we ever going to see one of the previous alternate versions of the SI and the universes they ended up in?
Like Avatar, what has he been up to, aside from helping Azula?

 

[Orabilis]

Tau tech, which is the least advanced in the setting by several orders of magnitude.

Imperium technology runs the gambit from a couple thousand years more advanced then the Tau to more advanced then the Guardians. Also a lot of it runs at least partially on the Nosphere, which is psychic magic. And of course most of the Imperium's tech is warded.

Click to shrink...

Necron technology is more advanced then the Guardians.

Click to shrink...

Citations needed. If you want people to believe this who don't already agree could you please show some examples and comparisons?

 

[WaleXdraK]

I don't think that's actually canon.

Click to shrink...

Why does you think so many Guardsmen join the Tau? "Join the Greater Good and gain a Big Titty Waifu for free!"

 

[Mr Zoat]

Eh, still liked the series, and i really think that he could have helped Hordak with, well everything that happened to him.

Click to shrink...

He could have shot him dead and then headed for a better drawn parallel universe.

Are we ever going to see one of the previous alternate versions of the SI and the universes they ended up in?

Click to shrink...

Probably.

Like Avatar, what has he been up to, aside from helping Azula?

Click to shrink...

He did kill a group of assassins who went after her.

 

[Darko]

You're upset because of the artwork?
For such a RATIONAL guy, you can be a bit petty sometimes cough a lot of times cough, Zoat.

 

[Coda]

The ring can only fix physical alterations, not mental ones.

Click to shrink...

Um... says who? The primary SI has a standing "maximum permitted mental alterations" order on his ring. The ring might not be able to interact with the soul or magical compulsion, but the brain is still made of meat. Technologically-originated mental alteration is fair game. Worst case scenario, he makes the ring mind-control him according to his preferred mind plan.

The only "peaceful coexistence" possible for the Tau is being conquered by the Imperium.

Click to shrink...

You have such little imagination.

A strategic alliance between peer nations, for example, would have most of the same effects as being conquered. A suzerainty is another option, which is technically being conquered, but leaves the Tau with enough self-determination to be equivalent for nearly all practical non-military purposes.

His OCC knowledge is in fact worthless to the Tau, as the only two factions that could actually use the small bits of information he actually knows to change things for even the slightest bit better are the Imperium and Eldar.

Click to shrink...

Again, such a small imagination.

We're seeing an example right now -- he knows about Genestealers and cultists, and he has out-of-context ideas on a general level for how to deal with things that the default Tau mindset might not have considered. (Heck, being human in and of itself gives that benefit; he doesn't even have to be from out of the universe.)

an empathic weapons

Click to shrink...

Either "weapon" if it's just talking about the ring he's wearing, or rephrase the rest of the sentence to say that 'rings' are empathic weapons, including take out "an".

You're upset because of the artwork?

Click to shrink...

Who says he's upset? Looks like a joke to me.

 

[Mr Zoat]

You're upset because of the artwork?
For such a RATIONAL guy, you can be a bit petty sometimes cough a lot of times cough, Zoat.

Click to shrink...

I'm not upset because of the artwork. I'm contemptuous because of the artwork. The He-Man my SI ended up in had good art.

To be upset I'd have to actually watch the thing and see what else they messed up. She-Ra wasn't that big a part of my childhood, but if it compared unfavourably to programs I liked which got cancelled, maybe.

Either "weapon" if it's just talking about the ring he's wearing, or rephrase the rest of the sentence to say that 'rings' are empathic weapons, including take out "an".

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Stsword]

Citations needed. If you want people to believe this who don't already agree could you please show some examples and comparisons?

Click to shrink...

That reminds me, there's a piece of Guardian tech that I can certainly see why Zoat wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole storywise- The Maltusian Evolution Tapestries.

They can heal (Krona used it to resurrect himself without a single scrap of his body being available in fact), and Krona was going to use them to turn Hal and Guy into human Guardians of the Universe.

As in telepathic telekinetic immortals who can manipulate the Emotional Electromagnetic Spectrum innately. As in "Oh, Danner enhanciles think they're powerful, how utterly adorable!" level transhumanism.

 

[Ardy]

Vaermina grumbling

Click to shrink...

Look dude, you can just ignore the random BS that Vaermina makes up at this point. The rest of us don't usually bother to pay attention to them, let alone ask for citations they never actually have. They usually just throw in a few extra "remember that time the SI murdered a child" things for good measure when pushed, and we all have a laugh.

I was actually on SB earlier and apparently he got his own staff post banning him from a Voyager SI thread doing the same stuff as here. Fun times.

Anyway, the lack of sleep really shows with this Paul. Healing people is normally good. FTLing people to their destination is normally good. Doing that on a ship full of panicking soldiers is... not so good.

 

[Armentho]

Well, i suppose whether this ends in a dumpster fire or not depends on whether or not these are the original naive but optimistic space communist Tau, or the creepy Ethereals mind controlling everyone to be their unwitting slaves in a rigid caste system Tau. I wait in suspense.

Click to shrink...

both arent mutually exclusive

the average tau citizen (including auxiliary races) have a culture of communal compromise and idealism

there is a deathwatch short storie in wich a firewarrior squad and a earth caste scientist works along the survivors of a deathwatch squad to detonate a nuke and destroy a tyranid cult before they get out of the quarentine zone
the earth caste gets infected but fights untill the end and gives its life for the geater good
or tau scientist launching themselves into the midle of tyanids swarms with a new type of virus to kill a tyanid splinter fleet

on the other side you have the orwellian leadership of the tau,and even then i think the ethereals truly think they are doing good

 

[Senevri]

But...but they're tau. For Emperors sake they don't even fight in melee. You cant fix what is already that broken.

Click to shrink...

Nothing that a bit of transtauism won't fix.

The bad things about the tau were the caste system, brainwashing and sterilization, right? And the last two were tacked on because the original concept was too nice for grimdark?

 

[Whenever Possible]

Nothing that a bit of transtauism won't fix.

The bad things about the tau were the caste system, brainwashing and sterilization, right? And the last two were tacked on because the original concept was too nice for grimdark?

Click to shrink...

People might also have a problem with the AI that secretly runs the whole Tau empire

That said, can a power ring fix genestealer infections? Presumably not purestrains, but ordinary people who have the retrovirus?

 

[Ardy]

People might also have a problem with the AI that secretly runs the whole Tau empire

Click to shrink...

I'm sorry, what now?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Nothing that a bit of transtauism won't fix.

The bad things about the tau were the caste system, brainwashing and sterilization, right? And the last two were tacked on because the original concept was too nice for grimdark?

Click to shrink...

The caste system is role specialisation, and given that the castes are physiologically distinct it makes a good deal of sense. There is no caste that is 'higher' or 'lower' than the others.

Brainwashing? They encourage certain cultural touchstones, but given that Farsight was able to flat out leave it's clearly not absolute. Different Septs have distinct cultures, and given that Tau don't have astrotelepathy the Empire couldn't work like that if it wanted to.

Sterilisation? No evidence that it happened.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

I'm sorry, what now?

Click to shrink...

Right, I've heard about that. The current leader of the T'au is a AI modeled after, and currently impersonating Aun'Va. He died of unnatural causes (an Imperial Assassination Squad). This is a minor issue due to the fact that, as an AI, he lacks what ever biological process which allows for Ethereals to actively enforce their will upon other Tau castes, so that the folks not currently in on the fact that he's not alive are starting to buck authority a bit more.

Spoiler: Heeeeres Johnny!

 

[Maelgwyn]

Which he can't do because his ring lacks a Guardian database.

Also the Tau don't travel through the Warp.

Click to shrink...

In fact they do, their warp travel is just inferior to human warp travel due to their lack of navigators, hence only being able to jump relatively short distances.

 

[Whenever Possible]

The caste system is role specialisation, and given that the castes are physiologically distinct it makes a good deal of sense. There is no caste that is 'higher' or 'lower' than the others.

Brainwashing? They encourage certain cultural touchstones, but given that Farsight was able to flat out leave it's clearly not absolute. Different Septs have distinct cultures, and given that Tau don't have astrotelepathy the Empire couldn't work like that if it wanted to.

Sterilisation? No evidence that it happened.

Click to shrink...

Isn't it being hinted that Farsight is a proto-psyker? Either by accident or as a result of that sword he uses empowering him and prolonging his life?

Edit: Not saying that the T'au are bad or anything. Anything they could be guilt of, other polities have done far worse. Honestly, the most grating problem I have with the T'au is that they're so lucky as a species that I'm pretty sure they're either an Eldar or Tzeentchian plot.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Right, I've heard about that. The current leader of the T'au is a AI modeled after, and currently impersonating Aun'Va. He died of unnatural causes (an Imperial Assassination Squad). This is a minor issue due to the fact that, as an AI, he lacks what ever biological process which allows for Ethereals to actively enforce their will upon other Tau castes, so that the folks not currently in on the fact that he's not alive are starting to buck authority a bit more.

Click to shrink...

Ugh, that's stupid.

During the Forgeworld Tau vs Imperium campaign book, the fact that the Imperium lost an assassin to kill the Aun'O was shown to be a mistake on their part, as the Aun had little to no role in military command and the Shas'O they should have killed passed his Ld check.

The AI thing is dumb as well. Aun'Va oversees Tau Empire policy as the senior Ethereal. There are plenty of other Aun would could do the job, probably several within the same building. Him dying is a shock but it's hardly critical to the Empire as a whole. There's no reason to create an AI like that.

 

[PDV]

I want to preface this with a note that /r/40klore bans exactly two discussion topics: Female Space Marines and ArchWarhammer. So this has a high background probability of becoming a flame war and I will hold no grudge against the mods if they decide to squelch it before that happens.

Mussolini: Everything within the state, Nothing outside the State, Nothing against the State.

That is the definition of fascism by the guy who invented the idea, and the Imperium violates those tenets many times over. The Ministorum, the Mechanicus, the Inquisition, the Astartes, etc., so many different internal power structures that no one person has command over all of them and many have in the past even turned against the greater Imperium in favor of their own personal objectives. Hell if the Imperium was fascist then Rogue Traders sure as hell wouldn't be a thing as the very concept of Rogue Traders violates the idea of there being "Nothing outside the State".

Click to shrink...

To the contrary, Rogue Traders are the single strongest piece of evidence for the fascist organization of the IoM. Rogue Traders are the only ones allowed to trade broadly and explore without case by case approval. And how do they acquire that authority? By specific letters of permission to do that from the state. Rogue Traders are freely-acting independent operators, but only as long as they continue to forward the goals of the state; if they go against it, they can and will be sanctioned and their Warrant of Trade given to someone else in their dynasty. Nonfictional fascist states had independent businesses much like Rogue Traders: they could do as they liked as long as they made Italy/Spain/Germany/Japan stronger rather than weaker.

Similarly with the Ministorum; Fascist Germany's main internal religious struggle looked very much like Sebastian Thor's revolt. And the end result in the IoM had reforms which made the Ministorum less independent, less able to act to favor one individual instead of the status quo and the state. It is part of the state, it literally worships the ruler, and its major power struggle ended with it being integrated more deeply into the state.

The Mechanicus is the best evidence against the IoM being fascist, but even there they worship the head of the Imperium as a god. They're fairly similar to the role of the Catholic Church in fascist Italy. Too important to subordinate totally, but "on notice" that if they defy the state that could change.

For the rest, you seem to be arguing that a fascist state could not have competing bureaucracies. But in fact every fascist state had them, in many cases deliberately, as a means of increasing the power of the ruling dictator/junta. The regular German army against the SS, for example, looks just like the IG vs. the Astartes. Nothing in "Everything within the state, Nothing outside the State, Nothing against the State" forbids internal conflict; chapter vs. chapter violence is not against the State, it's against the other chapter. All fascist states did try to abolish all conflict within their borders, but succeeding would require remaking your citizens into automatons with no self-interest, a feat not even the impressive egos of Hitler and Mussolini thought was achievable in less than a generation. Unless you successfully remove conflict from your populace, "Everything within the state" mandates internal conflict; if 'everything' that could conflict is 'within the state', all conflict is internal. (And that is in fact what happened; it seriously hamstrung the Axis in WWII.)

The IoM is a totalitarian state which exemplifies Mussolini's definition of fascism. *micdrop*

 

[Maelgwyn]

Just wondering, just what edition or combination thereof is this 40k setting based off of? Because from what I've been able to find Tau were introduced in 3rd edition and the Necrons got their first codex in the same edition, but I don't know any background for Necrons that doesn't include the War in Heaven which I believe you said was noncanon here.

Though looks like squats are a thing in this universe, so good for them!

 

[Whenever Possible]

For the rest, you seem to be arguing that a fascist state could not have competing bureaucracies. But in fact every fascist state had them, in many cases deliberately, as a means of increasing the power of the ruling dictator/junta. The regular German army against the SS, for example, looks just like the IG vs. the Astartes. Nothing in "Everything within the state, Nothing outside the State, Nothing against the State" forbids internal conflict; chapter vs. chapter violence is not against the State, it's against the other chapter. All fascist states did try to abolish all conflict within their borders, but succeeding would require remaking your citizens into automatons with no self-interest, a feat not even the impressive egos of Hitler and Mussolini thought was achievable in less than a generation. Unless you successfully remove conflict from your populace, "Everything within the state" mandates internal conflict; if 'everything' that could conflict is 'within the state', all conflict is internal. (And that is in fact what happened; it seriously hamstrung the Axis in WWII.)

The IoM is a totalitarian state which exemplifies Mussolini's definition of fascism. *micdrop*

Click to shrink...

That's a nice argument, but if internal conflicts are acceptable up to the level of armed conflict, and laws aren't applied universally between different sub-factions, and there isn't an active supreme level that can exert authority over the various factions in a de facto sense, and there isn't a unified culture (or even language), then I'm struggling to identify the difference between a dysfunctional fascist state with lots of infighting and several separate governments that are nominally allied against other powers.

 

[Coda]

Look dude, you can just ignore the random BS that Vaermina makes up at this point. The rest of us don't usually bother to pay attention to them, let alone ask for citations they never actually have. They usually just throw in a few extra "remember that time the SI murdered a child" things for good measure when pushed, and we all have a laugh.

Click to shrink...

Unless you changed names in the forum migration, I'm reasonably certain I've been around longer than you. Believe me, I know. The stuff that's just totally ridiculous I don't bother engaging with. It's when he has something that contains (or might reasonably contain) a good point that I think it's worth discussing.